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[LaserBuddha]

They'll always be more expensive than books, I'm pretty sure.

As books become more marginalized, and tablets quickly drop into the sub-$100 price range, this can't stay true for too long. Think about how expensive detailed carpentry and masonry is nowadays, compared to 100 years ago when every house was covered in it. Books will become more of a "delicacy" as the bookmakers become low-volume boutique shops, and book prices will pass tablet prices going in the opposite direction.

 

[Shurs]

One thing I prefer about shopping for books (or anything, really) on Amazon, as opposed to a brick-and-mortar store, is the user reviews.

 

[outunderthestars]

Ya no. I suppose you could save if you read a ton of classics.

Ebooks are almost always about the same as print. New releases are usually cheaper....but many books then go to 9.99 while the paperback is 8 or 9$. Plus you can't give them away or sell them later..... not to mention that most libraries have piss poor selections of ebooks.

Ebooks are NOT a money saving feature. They are a convenience feature.

Ummm, yes they are.

Take the Steve Jobs biography: One of the most popular books of the year. the Kindle version saves almost 60% off of the list price, and 15% off the deeply discounted Amazon price. factor in shipping and you're saving 30% by buying the e-book version.

Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close is the number one best seller right now. Kindle version is 20% cheaper than Amazon discounted price and 40% cheaper than the Barnes & Nobles price.

 

[06nbarnhill]

Aus-GAF laughs at this post.

Well in the US

They really are more expensive. Plus you can't buy used and they are rarely on sale.

 

[06nbarnhill]

Ummm, yes they are.

Take the Steve Jobs biography: One of the most popular books of the year. the Kindle version saves almost 60% off of the list price, and 15% off the deeply discounted Amazon price. factor in shipping and you're saving 30% by buying the e-book version.

Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close is the number one best seller right now. Kindle version is 20% cheaper than Amazon discounted price and 40% cheaper than the Barnes & Nobles price.

Ya no.

Best sellers are cheaper.....new releases....as I said. The average book is equally priced or more expensive though. Picking out one or two books and claiming they prove that ebooks save money is absurd.

I got a copy of Civ 5 on clearance at Kmart for 5$. Therefor physical PC games are cheaper than Steam.

 

[outunderthestars]

Ya no.

Best sellers are cheaper.....new releases....as I said. The average book is equally priced or more expensive though. Picking out one or two books and claiming they prove that ebooks save money is absurd.

You can look through the entire best seller list, classic literature lists, monthly sale list when hundreds of books are sold each month for less than $4. etc etc.


almost every book I see is still cheaper in the kindle version than either buying off the shelf at B&N or paying for it from amazon once you add in shipping.

 

[06nbarnhill]

You can look through the entire best seller list, classic literature lists, monthly sale list when hundreds of books are sold each month for less than $4., almost every book I see is still cheaper in the kindle version than either buying off the shelf at B&N or paying for it from amazon once you add in shipping.

Just did some random searches on novels I like (Wheel of Time, ASOFAI, Enders Game Series.) and 75% or so are the exact same price in both formats. Some were a dollar or two cheaper. The bundles I saw (first four books of asofai for example) are more expensive as ebooks by a significant margin.

Plus the fact that you can't buy used (which are dirt cheap for most novels) and I have a hard time seeing myself saving any money...ever....and this is coming from a person who loves ebooks and will never go back.



Sure you MAY save money by only buying on sale and best sellers/new releases.....or classics. I personally save virtually no money though.

 

[Baconsammy]

Not sure how people rationalize that an Amazon monopoly would be a good thing....for anyone.

I own a Nook and I wish B&N the best.

You'll excuse me if I don't lose any sleep over BN getting demolished by Amazon. Karma's funny like that.

 

[06nbarnhill]

You'll excuse me if I don't lose any sleep over BN getting demolished by Amazon. Karma's funny like that.

Ya because Amazon hasn't killed any businesses /lol

My corporation is less evil that your corporation!

 

[Baconsammy]

Ya because Amazon hasn't killed any businesses /lol

My corporation is less evil that your corporation!

If someone kills off Amazon, I wont shed a tear for them either. Means I'll be getting better deals elsewhere.

 

[water_wendi]

At this point i feel that an upper atmosphere atomic detonation resulting in a large scale EMP blast is the only solution.

 

[Jintor]

The publishers are right, a world without B&M stores is a world with less sales.

What do people do:

1) Spend an hour wandering around a bookstore, picking up stuff theyve never heard of and buying something that caught their eye
or
2) Spend an hour wandering from amazon page to amazon page, picking up stuff theyve never heard of and buying something that caught their eye

The fact is, "web wandering" isnt as engaging. People dont do that. At best, youll look at 2-3 suggestions, but really nothing more.

Amazon's "Recommended for you" feature is a really powerful tool. So are user reviews and the fact that I can look up opinions around anything at the same time as I browse through Amazon. Sure, I wander around bookshops a lot, but I don't buy anything because shit is expensive. I sample like crazy onto my Kindle, though, and buy the stuff that's worth it.

It's also a lot easier to find exactly what I'm looking for online than in a shop.

That said I had easily one of the most enjoyable experiences of my life diving in a second-hand bookshop the other day so whateverrrrrrrrrrr

 

[UltimaPooh]

I always wonder why a loss of jobs is a valid argument for hindering societal progress. There will be new, different jobs created somewhere else. We shouldn't hold society back for fear of unemployment.

Society doesn't want to deal with unemployment because society thinks the rich should keep earning more and more.

 

[Freshmaker]

Cutting out the middle man sounds good. Let the market decide.

I like the gatekeepers. Helps me avoid having to read horrible self published shit like Faces in Time: A Time Travel Thriller.

 

[Slavik81]

Society doesn't want to deal with unemployment because society thinks the rich should keep earning more and more.

Problem: The telephone has made telegraphs obsolete.

Option A: Outlaw the telephone so all those telegraph operators keep their jobs.

Option B: Put the telegraph operators on EI and ask that they find a new job with their current skills or seek retraining.

 

[WowBaby]

My point is if a consumer didn't even bother to consider any other possibilities, they never even made a decision on which one is "best." It's like Apple and the iPod. There are better MP3 players out there, but the iPod is so far entrenched as the "default" one in the public's eye that the others are never considered.

If, after comparing the products, you still go for the Kindle, fine, I'm not disagreeing. But most people don't even do that.

I would not say this is true. When Kindle first came out, it was the best thing out there. It had the best choice of books and whispersync beat out any competition.

As for customers that came later on, you cannot believe that customers just buy the first thing they see, simply because you don't agree with their choices. I happen to think that the Nook is an excellent and beautiful piece of machinery. I've been tempted to get one, but when I look at all the other benefits I get with Amazon and their Kindle, my choice is clear. I don't think however, that Nook users are wrong for choosing the Nook over Kindle.

I think most people who are going to make a $100-$250 purchase are going to study their choices before they open their wallets.

 

[Mumei]

The idea of not having physical copies of books depresses me. I just don't like reading books on e-readers. There's something about the physical experience of holding a book and turning pages that is an important part of the experience for me.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

Society doesn't want to deal with unemployment because society thinks the rich should keep earning more and more.

There's only one solution.

We have to go back in time and destroy all the cotton gins.

 

[Buddha Beam]

I'm going to kind of pre-toot my own horn here, so I hope y'all don't mind.
I've been thinking about this for a while and, hoping I'm on to something, recently founded my own little company. The plan is to release a digital publication by May featuring weekly comics and short story series. Eventually after that, the goal is to release collected editions as eBooks after enough content from the various authors have accumulated.

I do think that's probably going to be where we end up. A series of 'collectives' that edit, promote, provide an outlet for publishing for those who are otherwise technologically incapable of doing so on their own (not anybody can build an app, for example).
Self publishing is actually pretty hard to do on your own without at least an editor. Nor do I think anybody wants a company like Amazon solely tasked with being gatekeepers.

 

[nateeasy]

The idea of not having physical copies of books depresses me. I just don't like reading books on e-readers. There's something about the physical experience of holding a book and turning pages that is an important part of the experience for me.

ME2. Part of the experience of reading a book is being away from technology.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Buddha, how would you distribute the content?

 

[JzeroT1437]

As a person who works in the professional publishing industry, you guys don't want self-published books as a primary means of publication. The kind of shit most authors/academics send out for publication is astoundingly horrible.

 

[Buddha Beam]

Buddha, how would you distribute the content?

Well, initially it's going to come out as part of a digest digital magazine on things like Apple's Newsstand and, yes, Amazon. Afterwards, the idea would be to help the authors by publishing collected versions on like the Kindle Store and iBooks (and whenever the Android equivalents prominently emerge). And if demand is enough, there's no reason a relatively small print run couldn't be done either.
The magazine is where most of the money comes from via advertising, in my case, with the collected eBook editions being just bonus for us and the authors. But if my business model math is even in the ballpark, I could switch over to just doing ebooks, I think. But I've worked in publications for almost 9 years now, so I know that model way more than I do book publishing.

 

[favouriteflavour]

Many of you seem to be disregarding the good work that traditional publishers do. Nurturing talent and providing valuable feedback and editing work. Networking services such as providing photographers and artists for authors. Paying for material upfront to allow people to become full time authors. Publishing material which will never turn a profit.

Yes they do have far too control over pricing, but everything has a value. It's up to the consumer to choose if the asking price constitutes good value.

 

[Mike Works]

As an aspiring writer, I find the prospect of publishers crumbling to be both incredibly enticing and fucking terrifying.

Enticing because the gigantic wall that traditional publishers have had the luxury of using against the majority of writers was certainly not the best system (for the writers). Don't even get me started on the submit-and-wait process for short fiction periodicals.

Terrifying because the prospect of having no filter for the whole of fiction sounds like a god damn nightmare. Though I generally think one of many systems could and probably will emerge from the dust (something like an iTunes store; new companies that offer the same services as publishers once did, like editing and marketing; etc), the potential period of chaos is certainly frightening.

Personally, I can totally see (and wish for) that potential system where publishing houses do exactly the same thing, except publish. They connect you with an editor, offer artwork and promotion help, get your stuff reviewed... and let you publish your e-Book under their label. Oddly enough, the names/logos of publishing houses could suddenly becomie a commodity in terms of buying something off the shelf. Once we're in a vast-majority e-book system, I can totally see customers longing for a sign of professionalism in their purchases. Picture "a Random House novel" e-sticker ala Oprah's book club.

Of course it probably won't all happen like that, but one can dream.

 

[The Technomancer]

As an aspiring writer, I find the prospect of publishers crumbling to be both incredibly enticing and fucking terrifying.

Enticing because the gigantic wall that traditional publishers have had the luxury of using against the majority of writers was certainly not the best system (for the writers). Don't even get me started on the submit-and-wait process for short fiction periodicals.

Terrifying because the prospect of having no filter for the whole of fiction sounds like a god damn nightmare. Though I generally think one of many systems could and probably will emerge from the dust (something like an iTunes store; new companies that offer the same services as publishers once did, like editing and marketing; etc), the potential period of chaos is certainly frightening.

Personally, I can totally see (and wish for) that potential system where publishing houses do exactly the same thing, except publish. They connect you with an editor, offer artwork and promotion help, get your stuff reviewed... and let you publish your e-Book under their label. Oddly enough, I can really see the names/logos of publishing houses suddenly becoming a commodity in terms of buying something off the shelf. Once we're in a vast-majority e-book system, I can totally see a customers longing for a sign of professionalism in their purchases. Picture "a Random House novel" e-sticker ala Oprah's book club.

Of course it probably won't all happen like that, but one can dream.

This is the future I want to see, with a possibility of them funding publication if they really think you're worth major investment.

 

[Salazar]

As an aspiring writer, I find the prospect of publishers crumbling to be both incredibly enticing and fucking terrifying

It's why scholarly editing and educational publishing are the way for me to go, should I decide not to research/teach. Not that there's magnificent stability there either, but there's enough.

 

[Phoenix]

The idea of not having physical copies of books depresses me. I just don't like reading books on e-readers. There's something about the physical experience of holding a book and turning pages that is an important part of the experience for me.

We are a dying breed. My kids LOVE ebooks and dislike the physical versions because the digital books I have purchased for them tend to me more engaging and interactive. They still love me to read to them, but they REALLY want their books digital. As we pass from one generation to the next regular books will become niche just as sending out post cards/birthday card has been replaced by text messages/facebook messages. Its just the way of things.

 

[Ether_Snake]

While that is true, the message reach greatly diminishes through word of mouth. The distance it carries is far less than publisher based works. A publisher can make something popular through sheer force of will (that's how branding wins),whereas an indie or small shop may have a better product that never reached the masses. Mass distribution success still required mass media marketing, that still hasn't changed.

Social media has created more organized and lucrative niches, but very rarely do they cross to the mainstream unless they are in the right place at the right time.

I don't think so. If a surfing squirrel picture can be shared, in one day, by 20,000 people on Facebook, I'm thinking books are going to find their way much more easily than ever.

So basically nobody loses anything. If your stuff is good, it will emerge quickly, not worry. User reviews can easily make something good stand at the top of a list, number of sales too, etc.

There is really no difference, no loss, except more original content, more stuff that doesn't HAVE to sell a lot to exist, etc.

 

[Baconsammy]

As someone that flies a lot, I will never miss "real" books. Having hundreds of 1000 page books in a light device in my bookbag is something I'd never trade for the feel of holding a "real" book. At 79 bucks, my Kindle is one of the best purchases I've ever made.

 

[DurielBlack]

This is one area in which I think the digital future sucks. I far prefer physical books over digital versions. I also love browsing selections in a store. Its also the only type of store I ever spend any time "just looking" in.

That said, since the tiny local Borders in the mall closed, I have to drive about 30 miles to get to another book store (B&N) which is in a rather crowded and busy area thats a pain in the ass to get into.

The other alternative is the library, but I hate those. Too many times I have gotten disgusting mangled books missing pages and written in, or had to wait a week or more for them to aquire the next book in a series from another library. I also prefer to actually own my own books because I have a nice little library of my own building up.

With Borders being gone, I've been considering a Kindle. I've been hoping we would get a B&N in my town since there is now no competition whatsoever but I don't think its likely since I live in a redneckish area. Another option would be to order physical books online from Amazon (lol) but browsing there just isn't the same.

I found some new authors I liked last year at the Border's clearance sale. Bought several books at 50% or more off that I likely would never have found in a digital store.

If only there were a way to combine a physical store with the advantages of a digital one. Fast browsing and checkout, infinite inventory, etc with physical copies.

 

[Phoenix]

I don't think so. If a surfing squirrel picture can be shared, in one day, by 20,000 people on Facebook, I'm thinking books are going to find their way much more easily than ever.

So basically nobody loses anything. If your stuff is good, it will emerge quickly, not worry. User reviews can easily make something good stand at the top of a list, number of sales too, etc.

There is really no difference, no loss, except more original content, more stuff that doesn't HAVE to sell a lot to exist, etc.

Then you believe that the best selling books, movies, and songs are truly the best content available in the marketplace?

 

[hayejin]

Why not do an in store golden box type deals for e-books?
Let customers with Nook come in between 12 to 2 PM to the store and give them discounts on certain e-book downloads of the day.

People are always suckers for deals. B&N could make sales on e-books that would never have seen the light of the day and some people might buy them just b/c they're on sale. And who knows few of them might buy overpriced blurays or coffess on the way out.

 

[The Faceless Master]

...why would Wal-Mart or baby stores sell books to libraries?

why would they refuse to sell to Libraries?

Then you believe that the best selling books, movies, and songs are truly the best content available in the marketplace?

are you saying that was true before Amazon.com existed?

 

[Phoenix]

why would they refuse to sell to Libraries?



are you saying that was true before Amazon.com existed?

That mass media leaders have been using their publishing knowledge and deep pockets to push stuff through the mass market that would not have been as successful otherwise? Yes. Absolutely and without question.

 

[Einhander]

The idea of not having physical copies of books depresses me. I just don't like reading books on e-readers. There's something about the physical experience of holding a book and turning pages that is an important part of the experience for me.

Same here. I don't like using e-books. A print book is accessible to anyone - you can borrow it to anyone, and pick up where you left off without tending to a device. To me, a print book is more convenient than an e-book. The only attractive feature that I appreciate of e-books is storage. The issue I have with print books is that if you enjoy collecting them, like any other tangible good, they can take up space the more you accumulate.

 

[Meier]

This won't be a repeat of the iTunes scenario. Say what you want about Apple, but they don't publish music. In books, Amazon is setting itself up as the major publisher. They want to be iTunes and EMI both. That's the issue. It's possible for other companies to compete with Apple in music, Amazon in books will have no such competition once the major publishers are out of business.

Even if/when Amazon gets into publishing, I don't see them retaining exclusive rights to the books. They'll just set themselves up for an antitrust lawsuit by doing that and it isn't worth it.

 

[Meier]

The people talking about how they prefer a physical book to an ebook have probably never used a Kindle (or Nook). They really offer no benefits.

My leather bound Kindle LOOKS like a book on the inside and outside, has a built-in reading light, never forgets what page I'm on, is easily readable with one hand like a paperback and is light-weight. It's a godsend.

 

[AlimNassor]

gunna be mad if B&N shuts down ): I love going there

 

[Blackface]

Interesting...

 

[otake]

As a consistent reader for the past 16 years, I have a hard time imagining a world without books. I'm a pretty tech savvy person. I used to be a Linux Sys Admin, I knew about the Kindle and Nook way before they came out, I have a mac, a smart phone etc. I can easily afford any e-reader I want. Yet I won't do it, despite all the pros.

With ebooks, you save space, you have all the books available at all times, sometimes you save money, you can buy a book whenever/wherever and I travel, often, this would benefit me greatly.

I like books. I like a physical book. There's nothing like reading paper. I like having bookshelves, I like browsing through my books, sometimes discussing them with guests in my tiny townhome. Books are a lifestyle for me.

I would definitely lament the demise of book stores. I haven't ordered a book from Amazon in 4 years, every book I've wanted has been at the B&N store. While I can see there's a degree of inevitability to B&N's demise, there will always be a book store.

 

[Tobor]

Even if/when Amazon gets into publishing, I don't see them retaining exclusive rights to the books. They'll just set themselves up for an antitrust lawsuit by doing that and it isn't worth it.

Did you not read the article I posted? Go back a page. They're already a publisher right now, and are spending big money to sign authors to deals. This is not a "what if?" scenario.

 

[Baconsammy]

I would definitely lament the demise of book stores. I haven't ordered a book from Amazon in 4 years, every book I've wanted has been at the B&N store. While I can see there's a degree of inevitability to B&N's demise, there will always be a book store.

I'll never lament the loss of BN. I'll probably laugh when they finally do go under(I will pray the people out of work find jobs quickly though). I did, however lament the loss of all the smaller local bookstores that the ubiquitous BNs put out of business.

As for why e-books aren't in gold box specials, it's because Amazon isn't the seller. Publishers are the sellers of e-books at Amazon, which is why you're charged tax for them.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Amazon's "Recommended for you" feature is a really powerful tool. So are user reviews and the fact that I can look up opinions around anything at the same time as I browse through Amazon. Sure, I wander around bookshops a lot, but I don't buy anything because shit is expensive. I sample like crazy onto my Kindle, though, and buy the stuff that's worth it.

It's also a lot easier to find exactly what I'm looking for online than in a shop.

That said I had easily one of the most enjoyable experiences of my life diving in a second-hand bookshop the other day so whateverrrrrrrrrrr

Which can easily be tailored to feature only authors that paid Amazon a lot of money to get "Recommend" by them. Amazon is a horrible corporation. They are just as bad as Walmart.

B&N probably isn't no angel, but it's hard for me to imagine them being a company worse than Amazon.

As for user reviews... that is easily manipulated by a savvy marketer. See: Yelp.

Also: Critics will have an inordinate level of power in this world. In a world, where any "author" can be published, you are going to need a filter of some sort to ensure that you don't plunk down your cash for an unedited pile of junk. Yet, prominent critics don't review any piece of literature that's sent to them. They review stuff sent by trusted publishing houses, or authors with an already established reputation. In the Amazon world, I foresee it being harder for people without money to get their works featured.

Either that, or they will need to give a cut to Amazon and a cut to the people responsible for getting their works publicized.

 

[Trey]

I always wonder why a loss of jobs is a valid argument for hindering societal progress. There will be new, different jobs created somewhere else. We shouldn't hold society back for fear of unemployment.

Doesn't quite work that way, bro.

 

[Sirpopopop]

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/315-19/7500-inside-amazons-sweatshop

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/main-street-retailers-object-amazon-tax-break-idea

This is why I don't trust Amazon to be a good steward for the publishing industry.

I'd rather deal with James Patterson novels than what I listed above.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Marxism (labor theory of value) is the one that requires labor in order for a product to have more value, not Capitalism.

Capitalism just requires that people ascribe their own value to the end product based on how much they want it (i.e. demand).

My point wasn't about the "value" of the product. It was about requiring labor to actually produce the good, and how with automation, you can cut that out significantly, or entirely.

It was in response to Bboy AJ's assertion that another job can come easily for the people being displaced.

 

[szaromir]

My point wasn't about the "value" of the product. It was about requiring labor to actually produce the good, and how with automation, you can cut that out significantly, or entirely.

It was in response to Bboy AJ's assertion that another job can come easily for the people being displaced.

The automation is good because it frees human resources to move on and do greater things. Unless you want to tell me economy was better prior to industrial evolution, when there were no machines to speak of? (mills and some other inventions aside)

 

[pulsemyne]

As someone who has been trying to get a book published for the past few years I'll say this. Thank god for Kindle. Kindle is freedom for writers. We don't have to change or alter stuff at the whim of a publisher or agent. We can just push out a book as we intend it. Also its pays better. If you have ever had to deal with agents or publsihers then you know just how frustrating it can be. If your a new writer then quite frankly you can fuck off as far as agents are concerned. Unless you have had something published before then you have nearly 0 chance. You will be rejected by everyone of them. So you alter your book to make it more appealing (or so you think) and it gets rejected again. You keep doing this over and over until your book bears no resemblance to the original and your still being rejected.
Unless your a celebrity in which case you can write any old pile of shit and have it published. Thats what it has come too.
Even if you do get publsihed you can be sure that everyone gets an enourmous slice of your pie while you get very little dispite doing most of the work. I can publish a book on kindle at 1.99 and make more per sale than a normal book selling at 10 pounds. The normal book may give me back about 50 pence out of its sale while the kindle one would give me about 65 pence.
Publishers are shitting themselves over the rise of ebooks because they can no longer hold a gun to writers heads.

 

[Sirpopopop]

The automation is good because it frees human resources to move on and do greater things. Unless you want to tell me economy was better prior to industrial evolution, when there were no machines to speak of? (mills and some other inventions aside)

Like what?

In the previous "revolutions" - the grunt worker types had a job to move to - no matter what, human hands were still needed to make the process to go round.

The key difference now, is that is removed.

As I pointed out before, government could step in, and enact policies to guide this labor to better opportunities. However, government from both the Democrats & Republicans isn't doing anything to help them out.

That would require spending money.