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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!

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J

Jackson

Member
Chichikov said:
Are you going to ignore what I keep posting and just saying "it's private"?
I'll repeat, for the 4th time in this thread -
The developer wanted concession from the city about zoning and height regulation, in return, they agreed to build a park for public use.

Listen, I may be wrong here, I've been wrong before about things, but keep saying "it's private!!!" is not a counter argument.
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm confused by your point? I'm just stating facts...

- Gov makes deal to give land away to private owner in exchange for cool new building extensionz.
- Gov says "make sure xyz happens"
- Private owner says "ok boss!"
- Park is now private with concessions, one of them being it's open 24/7

The park owner, like any owner, has the right to refuse access to it's property. Today the park owner did just that.

Whether you think the deal in the 60's was ethical or not has nothing to do with legal ramifications of the ownership of the park. No one anywhere in the news that I can see is disputing that the park is private or not. Or if Brookfield is within their rights or not. They are. Unless I'm missing something that you have that I haven't seen?
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Thank you Occupy Wall Street for all the great changes you have brought to America lol.


Maybe that Vietnamese Americam cart owner can finally have a chance to make some money again with the squatters cleared out.

Thank you NYPD!
Click to expand...
Do you feel obligated to be such a prick about it?
 
J

Jackson

Member
gkryhewy said:
Do you feel obligated to be such a prick about it?
Click to expand...

I think everyone agrees with what the OWS message started out as... "Separate money from politics".

Big banking and megacorp execs used their wealth to lobby the government for grossly disproportional tax breaks on both a personal and corporate level compared with the rest of America over the last few decades. It's wrong, we get it.

The problem is OWS became such a muddled movement so quickly you can't tell spoiled hipster from bored pothead or old hippy reliving their youth protesting 'Nam from homeless crazy person to actual person who knows what they are talking about and has ideas about how to take action.
 
C

Cyrillus

Member
Jackson said:
I think everyone agrees with what the OWS message started out as... "Separate money from politics".

Big banking and megacorp execs used their wealth to lobby the government for grossly disproportional tax breaks on both a personal and corporate level compared with the rest of America over the last few decades. It's wrong, we get it.

The problem is OWS became such a muddled movement so quickly you can't tell spoiled hipster from bored pothead or old hippy reliving their youth protesting 'Nam from homeless crazy person to actual person who knows what they are talking about and has ideas about how to take action.
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Why does being a spoiled hipster, bored pothead, old hippy reliving their youth, or even a homeless crazy person invalidate one's anger toward disproportionate tax burdens?
 
J

Jackson

Member
Cyrillus said:
Why does being a spoiled hipster, bored pothead, old hippy reliving their youth, or even a homeless crazy person invalidate one's anger toward disproportionate tax burdens?
Click to expand...

Because those specific people aren't at OWS for being angry... They are there "cause its' ironic", "cause I can score pot easily", "cause I had so much fun in my youth" and "cause I'm crazy and have no home and maybe I can get some food here".

At best... OWS is muddled, which is a huge problem when you want to start a movement. You need the support of so many, and instead you get a massive backlash of people who disagree with what OWS has become. At worst it's only all of the above and none of the good. But that's not true, there are plenty of people there who truly care.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
Rocket Scientist said:
Enjoying your meals, Manos? =)
Click to expand...
I thought you said yesterday people shouldn't repspond to me, but yes I enjoyed a nice bowl of Quaker Oats Oatmeal this morning, thanks for asking.

Vibri said:
Do you live nearby?
Click to expand...
I work in Middtown Manhattan, but live in PA.

jorma said:
Interesting, i would have thought you opposed to squatters homeless rights.
Click to expand...

No I am not opposed to the homeless having rights.
 
J

justin.au

Member
Jackson said:
Because those specific people aren't at OWS for being angry... They are there "cause its' ironic", "cause I can score pot easily", "cause I had so much fun in my youth" and "cause I'm crazy and have no home and maybe I can get some food here".

At best... OWS is muddled, which is a huge problem when you want to start a movement. You need the support of so many, and instead you get a massive backlash of people who disagree with what OWS has become. At worst it's only all of the above and none of the good. But that's not true, there are plenty of people there who truly care.
Click to expand...
The movement that eventually brought down the Berlin Wall was born out of an incoherent mess of discontent.

I'm not saying that OWS is anything like 1989 East Germany, just that incoherency doesn't necessarily spell defeat for a popular movement. There are also lots of other prerequisites and conditions that have to be looked at re: protest and success.
 
J

Jackson

Member
justin.au said:
The movement that eventually brought down the Berlin Wall was born out of an incoherent mess of discontent.

I'm not saying that OWS is anything like 1989 East Germany, just that incoherency doesn't necessarily spell defeat for a popular movement. There are also lots of other prerequisites and conditions that have to be looked at re: protest and success.
Click to expand...

Quick! Say someone say something about Bush! We're just a step or two away from Godwin's law! :p
 
A

alstein

Member
The protestors aren't going away.

If this is about health/sanitation- then Zucotti will be re-opened quickly, like within a week.

If the park stays closed, then we can safely assume this was for other reasons.
 
C

Cyrillus

Member
alstein said:
The protestors aren't going away.

If this is about health/sanitation- then Zucotti will be re-opened quickly, like within a week.

If the park stays closed, then we can safely assume this was for other reasons.
Click to expand...
The park is open again as of about 5AM.
 
T

travisbickle

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Unless it's related to politics you don't like.
Click to expand...


No, I would have said that in my statement. I don't hide my opinions, which reminds me are you against the rights for people to protest?
 
C

Choke on the Magic

Banned
alstein said:
The protestors aren't going away.

If this is about health/sanitation- then Zucotti will be re-opened quickly, like within a week.

If the park stays closed, then we can safely assume this was for other reasons.
Click to expand...


They'll be gone (at least in the Northeast) when temps get well below freezing. No need for police to remove them.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
travisbickle said:
No, I would have said that in my statement. I don't hide my opinions, which reminds me are you against the rights for people to protest?
Click to expand...
As I said many times to you before no I'm.

What if this was related to the second amendment, would you still be cool with civil disobedience?
 
T

travisbickle

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
As I said many times to you before no I'm.

What if this was related to the second amendment, would you still be cool with civil disobedience?
Click to expand...


The only issue I have with gun ownership is I don't understand why anyone would own one?

Non-violent resistance to government laws and demands probably wouldn't be needed for gun owners, they have a multi-billion dollar organisation to help them fight any changes.
 
R

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
Jackson said:
Maybe I'm confused by your point? I'm just stating facts...

- Gov makes deal to give land away to private owner in exchange for cool new building extensionz.
- Gov says "make sure xyz happens"
- Private owner says "ok boss!"
- Park is now private with concessions, one of them being it's open 24/7

The park owner, like any owner, has the right to refuse access to it's property. Today the park owner did just that.

Whether you think the deal in the 60's was ethical or not has nothing to do with legal ramifications of the ownership of the park. No one anywhere in the news that I can see is disputing that the park is private or not. Or if Brookfield is within their rights or not. They are. Unless I'm missing something that you have that I haven't seen?
Click to expand...
Actually, although the park owners requested it be cleared, Bloomberg is taking full responsibility, saying the decision was his alone.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
travisbickle said:
The only issue I have with gun ownership is I don't understand why anyone would own one?

Non-violent resistance to government laws and demands probably wouldn't be needed for gun owners, they have a multi-billion dollar organisation to help them fight any changes.
Click to expand...
Your hypocrisy is showing.

I wonder what you would say to an African American who had his weapon seized in violation of his 4th amendment rights without warrant or being arrested despite having a valid LTCF and even proof of ownership (which he didn't even need).
 
U

Utako

Banned
OWS will continue, but I'm not sure any government is ready to respond to it with new policy that favors the many over the few.

I have more confidence in dogged protesters than my own elected lawmakers.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Occupy Wall Street should probably be grateful. This saves them from the embarrassment of everyone dropping out during the dead of winter and the holidays :p
 
D

derder

Member
NervousXtian said:
They already are, despite the antagonistic attitude "some" of the protesters took towards them. I want to be clear, the overwhelming majority seemed peaceful, but there were quite a few looking to start violence and were actively trying to start a riot. I have no respect for these people. Police are people as well, part of that whole 99% the protesters speak of, not the rich fat cats they are fighting against. The city made the right choice, someone was going to die in that park.




Side note, and not sure if posted, pictures from last 24hrs of OccupyPortland:

http://photos.oregonlive.com/photo-essay/2011/11/occupy_portland_camp_cleaning.html
Click to expand...
Those pictures make me rage.

Occupy Portland was so dirty that it needed cleaning up.
 
T

travisbickle

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Your hypocrisy is showing.

I wonder what you would say to an African American who had his weapon seized in violation of his 4th amendment rights without warrant or being arrested despite having a valid LTCF and even proof of ownership (which he didn't even need).
Click to expand...


What do you think I would say in this hypothetical situation? because I don't know, I'd say in most hypothetical scenarios like this I'm an anarchist, so I guess I'd be pissed at the police but I wouldn't be a big fan of amendments, or warrants, or the action of arrest, or LTCFs.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
travisbickle said:
What do you think I would say in this hypothetical situation? because I don't know, I'd say in most hypothetical scenarios like this I'm an anarchist, so I guess I'd be pissed at the police but I wouldn't be a big fan of amendments, or warrants, or the action of arrest, or LTCFs.
Click to expand...
It wasnt a hypothetical situation.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
Jackson said:
The park owner, like any owner, has the right to refuse access to it's property. Today the park owner did just that.
Click to expand...

Every factual assertion in this sentence is incorrect as stated, most especially (as relevant here) about the prerogative of the park's nominal owner.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Look I know you hate private property, but an owner has the right to set rules.
Click to expand...

An owner of a public place by agreement with the public does not. This should have been too obvious to have required stating.

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
I have never said they don't have a right to protest, but nice try though.
Click to expand...

You support the forcible suppression of a peaceful assembly. So...
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
empty vessel said:
An owner of a public place by agreement with the public does not. This should have been too obvious to have required stating.



You support the forcible suppression of a peaceful assembly. So...
Click to expand...
Yes, he does. Once again I'm sorry for your hatred of private property, but you need to come to terms with the rights it grants.

No surprise though youre trying to defend criminality as lawful and peaceful though.
 
C

Chococat

Member
Jackson said:
The problem is OWS became such a muddled movement so quickly you can't tell one American from another American or old American to American who knows what they are talking about and has ideas about how to take action.
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you.
They are all Americans. Using slander words to describe them does nothing but dived this country further.
 
R

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Look I know you hate private property, but an owner has the right to set rules.
Click to expand...

Once again:

http://gothamist.com/2011/11/15/bloomberg_ows_eviction_decision_was.php

"The final decision," to have the NYPD evicted Occupy Wall Street from Zuccotti Park, "was mine and mine alone," Mayor Bloomberg said at a press conference this morning in which he tried to explain the whirlwind of activity on Wall Street last night, all of which he says was done at the initial request of Brookfield Properties.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
richiek said:
Once again:

http://gothamist.com/2011/11/15/bloomberg_ows_eviction_decision_was.php

"The final decision," to have the NYPD evicted Occupy Wall Street from Zuccotti Park, "was mine and mine alone," Mayor Bloomberg said at a press conference this morning in which he tried to explain the whirlwind of activity on Wall Street last night, all of which he says was done at the initial request of Brookfield Properties.
Click to expand...
Hes simply trying to shield them from public backlash, as we know from last time Bakersfield got a bunch of threatening calls when they originally were going to evict the squatters.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Yes, he does. Once again I'm sorry for your hatred of private property, but you need to come to terms with the rights it grants.

No surprise though youre trying to defend criminality as lawful and peaceful though.
Click to expand...

The hyper-authoritarian mind is truly fascinating for its ability to deceive itself that words are the embodiment of reality itself (as distinguished from the external reality words are intended to represent). It's what gives you license in your head to just repeat the same nonsense over and over again. I know you don't believe me, but the fact that you have the physical capacity to string words together to form an assertion does not of itself make that assertion representative of an external reality. You don't create reality by the words you speak; reality precedes language.
 
R

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
Judge's Restraining Order Reopens Zuccotti Park, Prevents NYPD From Intervening

After the NYPD and other city agencies forcefully cleared the Occupy Wall Street encampment at Zuccotti Park at 1 a.m.—with the NYPD arresting reporters and lawmakers—a judge issued a temporary restraining order against the City of New York, the NYPD, Brookfield Properties and other agencies allowing protesters back to the space with their belongings.
Click to expand...

http://gothamist.com/2011/11/15/zuccotti_park_back_open_for_protest.php

NYC government just got bitchsmacked.
 
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