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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!

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empty vessel said:
The hyper-authoritarian mind is truly fascinating for its ability to deceive itself that words are the embodiment of reality itself (as distinguished from the external reality words are intended to represent). It's what gives you license in your head to just repeat the same nonsense over and over again. I know you don't believe me, but the fact that you have the physical capacity to string words together to form an assertion does not of itself make that assertion representative of an external reality.
The extreme leftist mind is truly fascinating for its ability to deceive itself that words are the embodiment of reality itself (as distinguished from the external reality words are intended to represent). It's what gives you license in your head to just repeat the same nonsense over and over again. I know you don't believe me, but the fact that you have the physical capacity to string words together to form an assertion does not of itself make that assertion representative of an external reality.

Fixed that for you! Seriously you need to cut back on the Chomsky. Lol
 

Angry Fork

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
The extreme leftist mind is truly fascinating for its ability to deceive itself that words are the embodiment of reality itself (as distinguished from the external reality words are intended to represent). It's what gives you license in your head to just repeat the same nonsense over and over again. I know you don't believe me, but the fact that you have the physical capacity to string words together to form an assertion does not of itself make that assertion representative of an external reality.

Fixed that for you! Seriously you need to cut back on the Chomsky. Lol
This is pathetic, even by your usual standards of discourse.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
No I am not opposed to the homeless having rights.

You said squatters are not homeless. The only home a squatter would typically have, is the place he squats in. Now i would obviously have thought that you were vehemently opposed to the very idea of anyone calling a squat his home. I was just a bit surprised.

Angry Fork said:
This is pathetic, even by your usual standards of discourse.

Why? What makes this post different from all the others? I dont' see it.
 
jorma said:
You said squatters are not homeless. The only home a squatter would typically have, is the place he squats in. Now i would obviously have thought that you were vehemently opposed to the very idea of anyone calling a squat his home. I was just a bit surprised.
These squatters do have homes though...often paid for by their parents.
 

Angry Fork

Member
jorma said:
Why? What makes this post different from all the others? I dont' see it.
What others? The post sucks because it doesn't even try to combat/argue vessels point, he just plays a trololo game and avoids whatever puts him in a corner.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
These squatters do have homes though...often paid for by their parents.

I just thought you'd be the last one to stand up for squatters rights is all. Shows that everyone and anyone can change. Maybe you could even take on some pro bono cases?

Angry Fork said:
What others? The post sucks because it doesn't even try to combat/argue vessels point, he just plays a trololo game and avoids whatever puts him in a corner.

Any other post he ever made on gaf OT, obviously. They are all like that. Every single post.
 
Choke on the Magic said:
Glad to see NYC is getting this mess cleaned up finally.
It's going to be nice when Mayor Nutter has the Philly PD clean up the garbage too. Hopefully it will be forthcoming.

jorma said:
I just thought you'd be the last one to stand up for squatters rights is all. Shows that everyone and anyone can change.
I don't think I've ever changed in that view about the rights of the homeless and not squatters who like to act as if they were homeless.

Angry Fork said:
What others? The post sucks because it doesn't even try to combat/argue vessels point, he just plays a trololo game and avoids whatever puts him in a corner.
Its a well known fact when EV gets pissy and goes into Chomsky mode, debating with him any further is pointless.

jorma said:
Any other post he ever made on gaf OT, obviously. They are all like that. Every single post.
LOL. Oh Jorma you will always be good for a lugh.
 
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ome-residents-cheer-clearing-of-zuccotti-park
As residents and office workers woke to a Zuccotti Park cleared of its protest encampment, some cheered the removal while others objected to the tough police action that brought it about, my colleague Cara Buckley reports:

One young father, pushing his toddler son in a stroller, gave police officers guarding Zuccotti Park a thumbs up. Another man, rushing by in a cream suit, flashed them a mega-watt grin. The sight of the park, freshly cleared and washed, stopped a blonde woman walking by in her tracks. "Ooooooh, good," she cooed.

The clearing of Zuccotti Park struck a deep blow to the Occupy Wall Street movement, which had used the site as its physical and spiritual heart. But as the newly ousted protesters gathered in Foley Square to decide what to do next, many residents, workers and business owners near the park felt deep relief. " Super ecstatic," said a young office worker. "Definitely relieved," said a young woman working behind the counter at Panini & Co., a cafe overlooking the park.

Paul Bruno, 54, who lives in the Bronx but has serviced elevators in Lower Manhattan for 30 years, had lunched daily in the park. He agreed with the protesters' message, he said, but not their means. "The movement is the right movement," he said, "but the movement got lost."

Another man, who worked nearby and said he could not give his name because it was against his company's rules, said it was time for the park to be cleared.

"It started out as a cool grassroots movement, he said, " and then it turned into a big homeless camp."

Still residents described a frightening scene last night, with police rushing into the park, bright lights glaring and helicopters whirring above. Mark Scherzer, a lawyer who lives half a block from the park, said he found the clearing deeply upsetting.

"I think the protesters were doing a valuable service," he said, "And I think it was lawful for them to be there."
 

Angry Fork

Member
Choke on the Magic said:
Glad to see NYC is getting this mess cleaned up finally.
Right, so that nothing changes then?

People like Manos keep acting like they defend peaceful protest but there isn't an inch of property in NYC that can't be argued its private. Where are these people supposed to protest? How are they supposed to stay there at night and beyond? Everywhere they go there's going to be some piece of shit nutjob to call the police and say they're on their property.

Sit on a sidewalk? NYC property, go to a public park? NYC property, go anywhere that isn't your own home? Property of someone else. Most people don't even own their own homes. It's fucking stupid and an easy crutch for people against the movement to act like these protestors are criminals/breaking the law when they have no place else to go to show their support.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Wow, so a few assholes who felt that the exercising of first amendment rights was unsavory are glad protesters have been (temporarily) displaced?

Maybe you should have bolded the last bit:
Still residents described a frightening scene last night, with police rushing into the park, bright lights glaring and helicopters whirring above. Mark Scherzer, a lawyer who lives half a block from the park, said he found the clearing deeply upsetting.

"I think the protesters were doing a valuable service," he said, "And I think it was lawful for them to be there."
 
Angry Fork said:
Right, so that nothing changes then?

People like Manos keep acting like they defend peaceful protest but there isn't an inch of property in NYC that can't be argued its private. Where are these people supposed to protest? How are they supposed to stay there at night and beyond? Everywhere they go there's going to be some piece of shit nutjob to call the police and say they're on their property.
Sit on a sidewalk? NYC property, go to a public park? NYC property, go anywhere that isn't your own home? Property of someone else. Most people don't even own their own homes. It's fucking stupid and an easy crutch for people against the movement to act like these protestors are criminals/breaking the law when they have no place else to go to show their support.

Because shanty towns major US cities is doing so much.

So if I owned property and I called the police because people were protesting on it, I'd be a POS nutjob? Ok.
 
Mercury Fred said:
Wow, so a few assholes who felt that the exercising of first amendment rights was unsavory are glad protesters have been (temporarily) displaced?
What does this have to do with the first amendment?

Maybe you should have bolded the last bit:

I don't think so, I didn't edit it out or anything or try to hide it. It appears like the overwhelming amount of people they talked too were happy.
 

Angry Fork

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Not at all, less trash, fire hazards, and bad odors emanating is an immediate change thats been brought about.
Dirty dissidents > clean totalitarianism

Choke on the Magic said:
Because shanty towns major US cities is doing so much.

So if I owned property and I called the police because people were protesting on it, I'd be a POS nutjob? Ok.
If you owned a public park yes.

Where are they supposed to go though? Honestly any suggestions? Or should they just not protest at all? They should walk in the streets in the day and then go home at night which does nothing?
 
Angry Fork said:
Dirty dissidents > clean totalitarianism


If you owned a public park yes.

Where are they supposed to go though? Honestly any suggestions? Or should they just not protest at all? They should walk in the streets in the day and then go home at night which does nothing?


If I were homeless I'd be in a homeless shelter at night. Looking for a job during the day so I could get my family and I off the streets. Not in a shanty town in a public park protesting. True story.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Clean democracy
Clean democracy
Clean democracy
Clean democracy
Clean democracy
Clean democracy
Clean democracy
Clean democracy
Clean democracy
Clean democracy
Interesting way of spelling Fantasy Reality.
 

Angry Fork

Member
Choke on the Magic said:
If I were homeless I'd be in a homeless shelter at night. Looking for a job during the day so I could get my family and I off the streets. Not in a shanty town in a public park protesting. True story.
I don't think many there are homeless though, they're there because leaving the scene of a protest so you can get some sleep/eat/shower is kind of killing the point of staying there.

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Clean democracy> Dirty squatters is a more apt comparison. No rights to protest were violated in the least here.
How is forcing people to stop protesting not violating their rights? You can say they were on private property (which if it's a public park is ridiculous) but even if that were the case then they'd have to go somewhere else. But anywhere else they go police will come and ransack their shit too. It's all bullshit.

As for the people inconvenienced by the protestors, they have to deal with it. If protests were always nice and cozy and clean then nothing would get done because nobody would care.
 

Evlar

Banned
Choke on the Magic said:
If I were homeless I'd be in a homeless shelter at night. Looking for a job during the day so I could get my family and I off the streets. Not in a shanty town in a public park protesting. True story.
As a test... When I write the following words (in bold): People who want to protest

... What do you see?
 
Choke on the Magic said:
Glad to see NYC is getting this mess cleaned up finally.

Same, and I don't even live there. People can't just decide to camp out in the middle of a city for weeks on end.

Protest? Sure, go ahead and show up and hold a massive protest, for a day. Setting up settlements is an entirely different thing, and obviously wasn't going to be tolerated for long.
 
Choke on the Magic said:
Because shanty towns major US cities is doing so much.

So if I owned property and I called the police because people were protesting on it, I'd be a POS nutjob? Ok.


He's talking about the privatisation of public spaces.

I went to China in the summer and I would have to say, from what I saw, the public have a greater ability to utilise public space than Europeans/Americans, from what we have witnessed recently.
 
Angry Fork said:
How is forcing people to stop protesting not violating their rights? You can say they were on private property (which if it's a public park is ridiculous) but even if that were the case then they'd have to go somewhere else. But anywhere else they go police will come and ransack their shit too. It's all bullshit.


That's not happening at all.

http://twitter.com/#!/MichaelPaulson

@MichaelPaulson
Michael Paulson
.@MikeBloomberg says future protests allowed at Zuccotti, sans tents #OWS
1 hour ago via web

They can still protest, just not squat.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
No, are you?
Press last night was shut out, news helicopters were barred from the airspace, one NBC reporter was roughed up and had his press pass ripped off of him, subways were shut down to deny people the ability to access the area near Zuccotti Park, police helicopters were buzzing over all of the major downtown parks last night (I could hear them circling near Tompkins Square all night long) and yet you're going to lalalalala that none of this actually happened.

So, naturally I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt and ask if you might be on drugs while posting today. Sorry, my bad.
 

140.85

Cognitive Dissonance, Distilled
There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding about what free speech and assembly rights entail. I'm shocked at how widespread the ignorance is although I guess I shouldn't be.
 
Mercury Fred said:
Press last night was shut out, news helicopters were barred from the airspace, one NBC reporter was roughed up and had his press pass ripped off of him, subways were shut down to deny people the ability to access the area near Zuccotti Park, police helicopters were buzzing over all of the major downtown parks last night (I could hear them circling near Tompkins Square all night long) and yet you're going to lalalalala that none of this actually happened.

Hmm, lets see is the press and public normally given free reign during a police operation...hmm no.


So, naturally I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt and ask if you might be on drugs while posting today. Sorry, my bad.
As I did with you, my apologies for giving you the benefit of the doubt.
 

Barrett2

Member
I have a fantastic mental image of Manos waking up, reading the news about the crackdown, staring out the window as he sips on coffee, proclaiming: "Time to go to work!!!" *opens GAF on his browser*

KuGsj.gif



As for the crackdown, I guess it was inevitable, but definitely a bullshit move by Bloomberg to do it at 2am. Exercise of police power should always be as transparent as possible.
 

Angry Fork

Member
BruiserBear said:
Protest? Sure, go ahead and show up and hold a massive protest, for a day.
How is this a serious suggestion? What could people possibly do in a day (short of committing incredible violence) that would do ANYTHING to overthrow billion dollar companies?

This is a real problem with Americans, they can say they don't like something and then when it becomes their turn to give up some of their comfort for the greater good it's like 'hey whoa now come on I want to take lovely strolls in the park I'm okay with wall street robbing me as long as I don't have to smell bad smells...' I mean it's ridiculous.
 

jorma

is now taking requests
Angry Fork said:
How is this a serious suggestion? What could people possibly do in a day (short of committing incredible violence) that would do ANYTHING to overthrow billion dollar companies?

Nothing. That's the point i would have to assume.
 
Rocket Scientist said:
Serious question, were people honestly not expecting this to happen?
I'm not horribly surprised but the Gestapo-like style with which this happened complete with the Orwellianlicious touch of the destruction of the 5000+ books in the OWS library was a surprise, yes.
 
Angry Fork said:
I don't think many there are homeless though, they're there because leaving the scene of a protest so you can get some sleep/eat/shower is kind of killing the point of staying there.


How is forcing people to stop protesting not violating their rights? You can say they were on private property (which if it's a public park is ridiculous) but even if that were the case then they'd have to go somewhere else. But anywhere else they go police will come and ransack their shit too. It's all bullshit.

As for the people inconvenienced by the protestors, they have to deal with it. If protests were always nice and cozy and clean then nothing would get done because nobody would care.


If I wanted to protest sleep/eat/shower is exactly what I'd do, Then I'd come back.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
BruiserBear said:
Same, and I don't even live there. People can't just decide to camp out in the middle of a city for weeks on end.

Protest? Sure, go ahead and show up and hold a massive protest, for a day. Setting up settlements is an entirely different thing, and obviously wasn't going to be tolerated for long.

This kind of thing is well-precedented in American protest history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
 
140.85 said:
I'm amazed at how many people this is lost on.

I'm amazed that you can compartmentalize in your head two separate areas for "protest of definite duration" and "protest of indefinite duration." A protest is not not-a-protest just because it occurs continuously and around the clock. More protest is not no protest. Why should this have required my time to point out?
 

Miletius

Member
It was bound to happen sooner or later. Hopefully people will stay together in spirit if not on location. It's a bit cowardly to do it during the middle of the night when you think less people will notice but that's how it goes.
 
Mercury Fred said:
I'm not horribly surprised but the Gestapo-like style with which this happened complete with the Orwellianlicious touch of the destruction of the 5000+ books in the OWS library was a surprise, yes.
Fair enough. The destruction of property can't be legal no matter what the situation.
 
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