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[XMonkey]

They're called Republicans, actually.

 

[teruterubozu]

They're called Republicans, actually.

And Occupy has...the Democrats? Fun, fun.

 

[XMonkey]

Incorrect.

 

[Mael]

Since when was free speech protection about the protection from anything but the government?

 

[teruterubozu]

Incorrect.

Exactly. Nothing.

 

[slit]

LOL. The Tea Party actually has political representation (crazy folks, but still represented).
Occupy's "anger" may remain, but so what?

Well you would have representation too if you had billionaires secretly backing your "political outrage". Besides, give them some time, Jesus. It's like some people expect mountains to be moved in six weeks. I don't know whats going to go down but at least give them a little more time.

 

[akira28]

Make sense, as it's pretty clear this movement is not about civility - it's about an undisciplined expression of emotion and anger much like the Tea Party. And while the economic ideas of the movement make sense, I'd be far too embarrassed to align myself with any group that demands rights while disrespecting the rights of others.

People have heard what Bachmann and Walker have had to say. At this point people are more interested in taking people out, than they are in listening to their political platforms and weighing their different policy plans.

People have to understand that its not about the vote at this point. It's about whether a vote is enough or if more and more direct action needs to take place. They have had all this time to deliver their rhetorical statements, while the people's voices remain ignored. Even Obama's speech powers are becoming irrelevant.

And unless you've not noticed, the occupy movement has had plenty of opposition from the establishment.

 

[Evil Benius]

People have to understand that its not about the vote at this point. It's about whether a vote is enough or if more and more direct action needs to take place. They have had all this time to deliver their rhetorical statements, while the people's voices remain ignored. Even Obama's speech powers are becoming irrelevant.

Okay I have seen this same exact statement made here before about the possibility of more direct action needing to happen. I asked for clarification last time, but did not get an answer (or missed it because the response took too long). So what exactly are people implying here? I want to give them the benefit of the doubt before jumping to scary assumptions.

 

[akira28]

Jump baby, jump. Somebody may catch you

edit:

slightly more serious answer...we know what's on the line. we know that the haves will let the have nots hang. We know that people with jobs and who are comfortable don't HAVE to care until one of those things is no longer true, either no job, or no way to have a comfortable life even if you are working. We know that some people will side with "the establishment" because they feel they have nothing to gain and everything to lose if they don't. We know that civil disobedience is always the 2nd step, unless the mere act of complaining and airing grievances is an act of civil disobedience itself...which appears to be the case in some of these instances. Civil unrest follows that, somewhere down the line, where we see where power lies, the expressed will of the people, the will of the politicians the people have elected, or the authority of the laws those politicians have created to govern the people.

And all of that can occur before things get actually serious serious serious.

 

[Dude Abides]

Eric Cantor's speech was delayed a few minutes by a group of people saying something? My heavens, what a travesty! I feel faint.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Some good newd squatters were evicted in Oakland a short time ago and a day ago in Portland.

http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/p..._host_hdr=news.yahoo.com&.intl=us&.lang=en-us

 

[gcubed]

Some good newd squatters were evicted in Oakland a short time ago and a day ago in Portland.

http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/p..._host_hdr=news.yahoo.com&.intl=us&.lang=en-us

Philly won't be around for long... or at least relocated. There is a $55 million dollar renovation project starting on the square where they are staying

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Philly won't be around for long... or at least relocated. There is a $55 million dollar renovation project starting on the square where they are staying

That's good to hear.

 

[dave is ok]

Try harder

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Try harder

Is what you should be telling the evicted Oakland and Portland squatters.

 

[dave is ok]

Is what you should be telling the evicted Oakland and Portland squatters.

A little bit better, but come on. I know you can troll better than this

 

[alstein]

Squashing these protests is just going to harden the minds of those who oppose the squashing. I just hope we don't get the return of left-wing domestic terrorism, we already have a little right-wing (stuff like Timothy McVeigh and the Abortion clinic bombers- yes, rare, but it does exist)

 

[Rocket Scientist]

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

 

[Trurl]

I didn't like when tea partiers shouted over congressional town hall meetings, and I don't like OWS people shouting over Republican speakers.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Manos is like the nanomachines from Grey Goo; everything is grist to his mill.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I didn't like when tea partiers shouted over congressional town hall meetings, and I don't like OWS people shouting over Republican speakers.

Remember the tea party isn't a real protest movement, so you can't compare them to the OWS protesters.

 

[.GqueB.]

Gotta say Im with empty vessel on this one.

First of all, this entire movement is based on "interruption" and "disturbance". They're occupying areas where they do not belong. They’ve already set the tone for their movement and this falls right in line with what they're doing. If you take issue with this, then you have to take issue with the entire movement (which Im sure some of you are but I just wanted to point that out).

As for the actual method, I applaud them. You are calling them out for "shouting down" the opinions of others but what else are they to do? They get shouted down daily. In the media, by angry politicians, by random bloggers on cnn.com. These nay-sayers are using their resources to cut at their message to alter public opinion about the movement. The occupiers are using their resources to do the same. Their resources are just a bit more boisterous. Doing what they did here is just about the same as Bachman calling them out in the news. Same aim, same goal, different method.

I just hope that in the future they can come up with even more clever ways to "occupy" rather than just yelling. A musician did something pretty cool in Honolulu for instance. Sorry to say it but everything they do has to be youtubable for people to take notice. This was the equivalent of a flash mob and acts such as this easily get noticed.

That´s not civil disobedience that´s interrupting a speaker you don´t agree with its using your voice to silence theirs. Use a Q and A session or another form. Don´t interrupt a speech it makes you look bad.

This seems silly to me. The point of this protest is to gain support and educate (at least that’s what I got from these videos). You don’t do that by going to a Q & A where you're trying to politely start a conversation that:

a: they probably don’t want to have in the first place
b: they probably have a bunch of pre-prepared, run of the mill responses for anyway

They seem to be more about speaking to the American people as a whole, not just politicians and bankers. Politely attending a Q&A would be pointless. I don’t support OWS 100% but I really can't find too much fault with what they did here.

 

[kame-sennin]

I don't think these exercises in civil disobedience have been posted:

Scott Walker interrupted by the people's mic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oHRdiklTlU

Michelle Bachmann interrupted by the people's mic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw7VmGjg-b4

This is really inspiring stuff.

 

[Rentahamster]

Having a mob of people shout out in order to suppress the voice of someone who is speaking, and then saying that action promotes freedom of speech and civil discourse is a very Orwellian way of interpretation.

It usually only looks good to people who agree with the message. And sometimes, not even then...

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/ar...cupy-wall-street-forum-drives-away-supporters

 

[RustyNails]

I'm watching this protest movement snowball from afar. It's sad to see people getting hurt and stuff in Oakland. But this movement will not gain political traction until it hits the nation's capitol building. I guess I'm waiting for Occupy Congress movement to coalesce. People should bring their 'rescind bush tax cuts' signs to the Congress and force lawmakers to pass the Jobs bill which has millionaires' tax.

 

[kame-sennin]

No sense of perspective? A group of people interrupt and cancel a speech...for what? I wonder what you're opinion would be if an Occupy speech was similarly interrupted by the establishment.

Everyone has a right to not only their opinion, but to express it freely. No sensible person agrees with shouting down other people's comments, regardless of how odious said comments are.

I think this more about the people - Walker and Bachman's constituency - letting their representatives know how they feel. The people hold the sovereignty, and so it is incumbent on elected officials to listen.

 

[Halvie]

Action begets reaction. The Scott Walkers of the world did bring this on themselves in my eyes.

This anger isn't going away, and it's not going to die off like the mostly retired Tea Party.

God damn you walker for balancing the state budget without having to raise taxes. GOD DAMN YOU!

 

[venne]

I'm watching this protest movement snowball from afar. It's sad to see people getting hurt and stuff in Oakland. But this movement will not gain political traction until it hits the nation's capitol building. I guess I'm waiting for Occupy Congress movement to coalesce. People should bring their 'rescind bush tax cuts' signs to the Congress and force lawmakers to pass the Jobs bill which has millionaires' tax.

Congress is too busy getting paid to deal with the concerns of their constituents.

http://m.cbsnews.com/postwatch.rbml?videoid=50114839&feed_id=32

 

[XMonkey]

Exactly. Nothing.

You clearly don't get it. This movement endorses no political party and no politicians as a conscious choice, unlike the Tea Party who allowed themselves to be co-opted by Republicans. Our grievances and demands won't be met simply by getting a few sympathetic Democrats elected to Congress. Why you find this distinction between the two protests difficult is beyond me.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

You clearly don't get it. This movement endorses no political party and no politicians as a conscious choice, unlike the Tea Party who allowed themselves to be co-opted by Republicans. Our grievances and demands won't be met simply by getting a few sympathetic Democrats elected to Congress. Why you find this distinction between the two protests difficult is beyond me.

Well when you lack coherent grivences and solutions, its easy to see why the electoral process is a turn off. If the squatters have no electoral plans or goals then they shouldn't complain when the achieve nothing. Oh considering the Democratic Caucus has been running interviews with Reps talking about OWS you should just drop the pretense about not being about parties or officials, because whether you like it or not you're property of the Democratic Party now.

 

[akira28]

Just ignore Manos, but figuratively, not literally. And don't forget, we're all owned by the Democratic party now

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Just ignore Manos, but figuratively, not literally. And don't forget, we're all owned by the Democratic party now

Hey if denial makes you feel better, go for it, you guys do it enough for when people point out the large similarities between you and the Tea Party, so its not a stretch for you to do it know.

Its a stupid thing for the Democrats to do, but I guess they want their own Tea Party bad enough.

 

[XMonkey]

Just ignore Manos, but figuratively, not literally. And don't forget, we're all owned by the Democratic party now

No worries. I'll acknowledge him when he makes honest and logical points, not the kind of tripe posted above. One of the bigger leaps in logic I've seen on these forums lately.

 

[Dude Abides]

Concern trolls continue to voice concern.

 

[Jenga]

i heard OWS protesters like to pick their noses

 

[NervousXtian]

I feel better about this whole movement if they had a concise message. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? The occupiers are all over the place, we get it, your pissed about everything. A lot of people seem to just protest for protesting's sake.

I was watching a lot of coverage of the Portland clearing of the parks, and to be honest I applaud how well the police handled the situation. You can only warn someone so many times to leave, those parks are beyond fucked up.. and they became a den of drugs and homeless.. not just those who were part of OWS.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

No worries. I'll acknowledge him when he makes honest and logical points, not the kind of tripe posted above. One of the bigger leaps in logic I've seen on these forums lately.

Hey if that excuse works for you ducking a response than go with it.

 

[akira28]

Hey if denial makes you feel better, go for it, you guys do it enough for when people point out the large similarities between you and the Tea Party, so its not a stretch for you to do it know.

Its a stupid thing for the Democrats to do, but I guess they want their own Tea Party bad enough.

If by similarities you mean groups of citizens standing assembled, well yes they're quite similar, but the similarities pretty much end there. Maybe when Steven Colbert rents 150 buses to carry 7,000 OWSrs to a party/concert/comedy show/rally you can try comparing them again.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I feel better about this whole movement if they had a concise message. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? The occupiers are all over the place, we get it, your pissed about everything. A lot of people seem to just protest for protesting's sake.

I was watching a lot of coverage of the Portland clearing of the parks, and to be honest I applaud how well the police handled the situation. You can only warn someone so many times to leave, those parks are beyond fucked up.. and they became a den of drugs and homeless.. not just those who were part of OWS.

You know despite the efforts and restraint shown by the Portland PD, you know they're going to have to deal with a bunch of false complaints filed against them by the squatters.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

If by similarities you mean groups of citizens standing assembled, well yes they're quite similar, but the similarities pretty much end there. Maybe when Steven Colbert rents 150 buses to carry 7,000 OWSrs to a party/concert/comedy show/rally you can try comparing them again.

Thank you for providing an example of that denial I was just talking about.

The paranoia about the Kotch brothers is a hilarious mirror to the right wings own Soros paranoia.

 

[kame-sennin]

I feel better about this whole movement if they had a concise message. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? The occupiers are all over the place, we get it, your pissed about everything. A lot of people seem to just protest for protesting's sake.

The financial corruption in our government is massively complex. It can't, and should not be boiled down to one bullet point.

I was watching a lot of coverage of the Portland clearing of the parks, and to be honest I applaud how well the police handled the situation. You can only warn someone so many times to leave, those parks are beyond fucked up..

The first amendment guarantees freedom of assembly. We shouldn't applaud police infringing on that right.

and they became a den of drugs and homeless.. not just those who were part of OWS.

According to a protester I know, the NYPD have been directing homeless people towards the protest. When protesters complained, the police responded that the homeless had the right to assemble as well. It's probably the most clever thing the police have done to undermine the movement.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

According to a protester I know, the NYPD have been directing homeless people towards the protest. When protesters complained, the police responded that the homeless had the right to assemble as well. It's probably the most clever thing the police have done to undermine the movement.

So what, does OWS dislike the homeless?

 

[NervousXtian]

You know despite the efforts and restraint shown by the Portland PD, you know they're going to have to deal with a bunch of false complaints filed against them by the squatters.

They already are, despite the antagonistic attitude "some" of the protesters took towards them. I want to be clear, the overwhelming majority seemed peaceful, but there were quite a few looking to start violence and were actively trying to start a riot. I have no respect for these people. Police are people as well, part of that whole 99% the protesters speak of, not the rich fat cats they are fighting against. The city made the right choice, someone was going to die in that park.




Side note, and not sure if posted, pictures from last 24hrs of OccupyPortland:

http://photos.oregonlive.com/photo-essay/2011/11/occupy_portland_camp_cleaning.html

 

[akira28]

Thank you for providing an example of that denial I was just talking about.

The paranoia about the Kotch brothers is a hilarious mirror to the right wings own Soros paranoia.

The Coke bros(tm), rich muti-corporate billionaires that they are, have generally worked to keep their names and their influence in the background. I was referring to Glen Beck's political summer fun extravaganza for the TPrs. And all the media acclaim and commercial publicity both got out of it.

I'm not denying anything, unlike GOP voters and their full culpability. But if you think you have a good point, I won't take it from you.

 

[Karma Kramer]

So what, does OWS dislike the homeless?

You clearly do.

 

[NervousXtian]

The first amendment guarantees freedom of assembly. We shouldn't applaud police infringing on that right.

Not when it becomes a public safety concern. Portland didn't stop the movement, they still allowed the people to gather.. they closed the parks, and rightfully so.

 

[makingmusic476]

They already are, despite the antagonistic attitude "some" of the protesters took towards them. I want to be clear, the overwhelming majority seemed peaceful, but there were quite a few looking to start violence and were actively trying to start a riot. I have no respect for these people. Police are people as well, part of that whole 99% the protesters speak of, not the rich fat cats they are fighting against. The city made the right choice, someone was going to die in that park.




Side note, and not sure if posted, pictures from last 24hrs of OccupyPortland:

http://photos.oregonlive.com/photo-essay/2011/11/occupy_portland_camp_cleaning.html

This picture is hilarious:

 

[NervousXtian]

Didn't notice they were PSP games.. what one is that?

Also, one on bottom was bought used... ha.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

You clearly do.

Squatters aren't homeless, but nice try at dodging the issue.