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[badcrumble]

If you phrase the question correctly (as I've fixed it) I might answer saying criminality is wrong on both ends. You however tried to make one criminality seem good compared to the other. Criminality is wrong as I've said on both ends.

Are you aware that, in the justice system, there are different levels of criminality?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I no longer believe you graduated from law school.

You can also believe that we never went to the moon or other loony things.

LOL

Are you aware that, in the justice system, there are different levels of criminality?

I'm not talking about degrees here, just that both are acts of criminality.

 

[richiek]

You need to calm down and just move on man. It's okay for you to be wrong.

Once again Manos is spamming stealth "U MAD" posts in here.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Funny I've been saying that all along.

That's all he's been trying to say, guys!

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

That's all he's been trying to say, guys!

Thank you!

 

[Karma Kramer]

If you phrase the question correctly (as I've fixed it) I might answer saying criminality is wrong on both ends. You however tried to make one criminality seem good compared to the other. Criminality is wrong as I've said on both ends.

You might answer? Are you Herman Cain?

Of course criminality is wrong... I mean, duh! But stealing a soda or sleeping in a park doesn't equate to the level of destruction that wall street criminality caused. Can you agree with this? If so, can I ask you why you never seem to balance your posts in this thread with this kind of perspective and instead only focus on the criminality of the people who are trying to bring justice to a much greater problem?

 

[Dude Abides]

I no longer believe you graduated from law school. Or US law schools are terribad, because you really need to be able to grasp these sort of subtle (or in this case not so subtle) nuances in language in order to be able to function as a jurist.

Dude, he's a high-powered attorney who's made financial deals with non-English speakers!

Like last weekend when he got Tandoori chicken take-out from the local Indian restaurant.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Of course criminality is wrong... I mean, duh!

Thank you!

 

[jorma]

Dude, he's a high-powered attorney who's made financial deals with non-English speakers!

That's what the telemarketers at my company do every single day.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Thank you!

You coward, answer the damn questions ffs! lol

If you are gonna post an obscene amount in this thread, you really have no excuse to not respond. What you don't got time or something.

flol

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

That's what the telemarketers at my company do every single day.

Whatever makes you two feel better when you're thinking about me.

 

[Dude Abides]

Whatever makes you two feel better when you're thinking about me.

Did you get the garlic nan as well, or could you not reach agreement on indemnification language?

 

[jorma]

Whatever makes you two feel better when you're thinking about me.

You should be grateful to me, seeing as you use my posts to dodge Karma Kramer.

 

[nib95]

Guys what happened? Don't stop the fight. Finally some movement. Just don't let the Media propaganda and mockery/attack campaign win out.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Did you get the garlic nan as well, or could you not reach agreement on indemnification language?

Why do you have to assume an Indian works at a restaurant, talk about stereotyping.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Manos...

 

[BruiserBear]

I think most people that are mad about OWS getting broke up miss the point that they should have been in DC and DC alone. Lawmakers make the rules and they can change them. Not to mention the allegations of some US lawmakers part of some insider trading BS recently. Not sure if OWS organizers don't understand or if they don't want the inconvenience of having to change the name of the protest.

It's much more cool to hate on Wall Street. Facing the fact that the entire government system is broken is much more complicated than just blaming it on the rich "fat cats".

 

[badcrumble]

I'm not talking about degrees here, just that both are acts of criminality.

It's relevant if you're using it to draw moral equivalences.

 

[Azih]

I think most people that are mad about OWS getting broke up miss the point that they should have been in DC and DC alone.

Nope. The protests need to remain focused on the center of power. Which is the 1%. The source of the problem is the rich using their resources and influence to tilt the playing field in their favour. It's not just their control over politicians but also their control over the media.

It's crazy to say that just Washington should be targeted. It's like targeting the monkey and ignoring the organ grinder. Going after the piper and not the people paying the piper and calling the tune.

 

[Angry Fork]

You are one paranoid man or did you just start reading Chomsky for the first time in College? lol

What is it with you and the constant Chomsky mentions? As if sounding like Chomsky or having similar intellect is a bad thing? Why? Is Chomsky a crazy crackpot who doesn't know what he's talking about or is that just what you believe?

It's like the only argument you can come up with once someone says something you can't go against. "lol you hippie college kid chomsky chomsky". I don't think you'll hear many people coming at you with "lol sean hannity fan, objectivist, go read some more atlas shrugged lolol" because that would be silly and running away from the debate/question.

What happens if the people you're debating are beyond college and twice your age? Is it still wrong for them to sound like Chomsky? Are they still a 20 year old hippie loser? Is Chomsky a hippie loser himself for being Chomsky? I don't understand, it's like the worst most nonsensical criticism of someone ever.

 

[.GqueB.]

I am trying to figure out why some people are expressing an opinion that $25,000 per year is extravagantly excessive for any person who works full time contributing his labor to society.

I find this argument odd. If you raise the minimum wage so drastically, then doesnt this mean the wages of skilled workers should get raised to offset it? Once you start raising minimum wage, then prices in general are going to have to go up so businesses can afford to pay these wages. So in general, raising the minimum wage by so much would essentially do nothing.

 

[NervousXtian]

Obviously some people will never move on, but that can be for a variety of reasons.

Exactly, those with troubles, there's a system to take care of them. It's not like we let all the poor just completely suffer in this country. Food stamps, subsidized housing, healthcare for the poor, there's systems in place.

If one shows no motivation, who's truly able, to not move past a min wage job.. that's their problem, not mine. We (the middle-class, or in my case the lower-middle class, but still I'm not poor) worked our way past the min wage jobs to something more. I never went to college, came from a working class family with no significant wealth, who came from pretty poor situations (both parents came from alcoholic parents) who worked hard to get where they are, firmly middle-class.. without college or hand-outs or anyone giving them a damn thing they didn't work hard for.

I moved myself up from the ground level to a middle level manager, on my own.

Most of this movement is nothing but class envy. Yeah, some things are fucked up, but you can fight the system or find a way to work with the system. Some drive and you can make a decent living, even in this economy.

The ones I feel for in this day and age are the aging workers who lost jobs, where starting over is financially devastating.. those are the true victims.. not the young anarchists who had no intention of trying to conform into finding a career and just working there way to a decent job.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Nope. The protests need to remain focused on the center of power. Which is the 1%. The source of the problem is the rich using their resources and influence to tilt the playing field in their favour. It's not just their control over politicians but also their control over the media.

It's crazy to say that just Washington should be targeted. It's like targeting the monkey and ignoring the organ grinder. Going after the piper and not the people paying the piper and calling the tune.

And again which is something that only lawmakers can change. Corporations are acting within the law which was made by people elected by US citizens. You really think Wall Street or any business for that matter will change anything as long as it's legal for them to do so?

I think you miss the point that lawmakers currently getting rich off Wall Street and it's almost as if OWS could give a shit. They should be licking their chops.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

I find this argument odd. If you raise the minimum wage so drastically, then doesnt this mean the wages of skilled workers should get raised to offset it? Once you start raising minimum wage, then prices in general are going to have to go up so businesses can afford to pay these wages. So in general, raising the minimum wage by so much would essentially do nothing.

No one supporting that argument seems to get that.

 

[NervousXtian]

..btw anyone else sick of this 99% and 1% bullshit.. it's the new #winning. It screams of class envy.

 

[Evlar]

Current as of 11:15 am.

 

[NervousXtian]

Your point?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

What is it with you and the constant Chomsky mentions? As if sounding like Chomsky or having similar intellect is a bad thing? Why? Is Chomsky a crazy crackpot who doesn't know what he's talking about or is that just what you believe?

It's like the only argument you can come up with once someone says something you can't go against. "lol you hippie college kid chomsky chomsky". I don't think you'll hear many people coming at you with "lol sean hannity fan, objectivist, go read some more atlas shrugged lolol" because that would be silly and running away from the debate/question.

What happens if the people you're debating are beyond college and twice your age? Is it still wrong for them to sound like Chomsky? Are they still a 20 year old hippie loser? Is Chomsky a hippie loser himself for being Chomsky? I don't understand, it's like the worst most nonsensical criticism of someone ever.

Genocide Denial

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Current as of 11:15 am.

You took the time to make a chart? Cool! Thanks Evlar!

 

[Dalauz]

I cant believe it

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Your point?

The point is... what was he doing between 2 and 4 pm yesterday.

 

[.GqueB.]

Nope. The protests need to remain focused on the center of power. Which is the 1%. The source of the problem is the rich using their resources and influence to tilt the playing field in their favour. It's not just their control over politicians but also their control over the media.

It's crazy to say that just Washington should be targeted. It's like targeting the monkey and ignoring the organ grinder. Going after the piper and not the people paying the piper and calling the tune.

As Ive said in this thread before, the 1% doesnt make sense as an enemy because (as it stands) its based on income. All rich people arent bad, we dont know which rich people are bad, and we'll never know which rich people are bad. The bad guys are the lawmakers that allow the bad rich people to exploit the system in their favor. Without these laws (or lack thereof) all of this corruption wouldnt even be possible.

This is why Washington makes more sense.

 

[jorma]

Genocide Denial

Do go on.

 

[Dude Abides]

No one supporting that argument seems to get that.

Probably because it isn't true.

 

[.GqueB.]

Probably because it isn't true.

Why isnt it true?

 

[ericexpo]

Well I've heard Occupy Philly has been shitting all over the place they've been occupying

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/2...__tarnish_Occupy_message.html?cmpid=131298094

still find it funny that Occupy Philly set up in the worst place in the city, when there's a open lot across from the Philly Stock exchange and a small plaza the same size as the place they're in now next to that. also would been next to the biggest corp. in all of philly the comcast center. They picked just about the worst place in the city to set up at because bums were already shitting up that plaza for the last 40 years.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

As Ive said in this thread before, the 1% doesnt make sense as an enemy because (as it stands) its based on income. All rich people arent bad, we dont know which rich people are bad, and we'll never know which rich people are bad. The bad guys are the lawmakers that allow the bad rich people to exploit the system in their favor. Without these laws (or lack thereof) all of this corruption wouldnt even be possible.

This is why Washington makes more sense.

Unless you're looking at it from a true far left socialist perspective then all rich people are bad.

 

[Evlar]

Why isnt it true?

Same reason raising rates for CEOs doesn't result in everyone else's pay going up, either. The pay structure within an economy isn't a set of rigid ratios that adjust themselves instantaneously and automatically from top to bottom.

 

[NervousXtian]

Probably because it isn't true.

I patiently wait for your response on how doubling the min wage is a good thing for the economy and how it wouldn't be devastating to the middle-class.

Also, clearly anyone who supports a large min wage increase has never seen a P&L or ran a business.

 

[Dude Abides]

I patiently wait for your response on how doubling the min wage is a good thing for the economy and how it wouldn't be devastating to the middle-class.

Also, clearly anyone who supports a large min wage increase has never seen a P&L or ran a business.

You'll be waiting a long time since I never made any claims about what doubling it would do. What is it with reactionaries and reading comprehension?

 

[.GqueB.]

Same reason raising rates for CEOs doesn't result in everyone else's pay going up, either. The pay structure within an economy isn't a set of rigid ratios that adjust themselves instantaneously and automatically from top to bottom.

It really isnt about that. You guys dont see the obvious snowball affect of raising the minimum wage to $18-$20? You guys act as if people either make $7/hr or $90/hr with no in between.

At my last job I made about $20/hr (give or take). Im a graphic designer mostly focusing on branding. If the minimum wage was raised to $18/hr then the person who worked on a showroom floor selling furniture to whoever could come in and afford it is making the same as the person who designed the companies logo and came up with the advertising that got that customer into the door in the first place. How does this make sense? You raise the minimum wage so drastically then all of a sudden wages in general would come into question.

 

[Angry Fork]

Genocide Denial

what are you referring to?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Do go on.

what are you referring to?

His opinions about what occurred during the Yugoslavian Civil War. It was discussed in a thread before, I know Rusty Nails was involved in it (it was discussing a concentration camp photo). I'll try and find the exact thread (as it was filled with links and resources.

Regardless of your thoughts on what I post, I will provide the links as soon as I find them. I won't make an accusation like that without evidence.

EDIT: Here is the thread

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28215670&postcount=141
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28223019&postcount=188
http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2006/06/chomsky_bambooz_1.html

 

[Evlar]

I think it's pretty self evident that any movement with the purpose of addressing the inequality in outcomes in the US has, as its goal, increasing the growth of wealth of those who have been on the downside of the widening inequality gap (which means probably the bottom 80%, at least) and decreasing the growth of wealth on the upside (that remaining 20%, maybe even less). Unless you intend to do that wealth re-distribution in the old-fashioned communist way it will be handled, at least in part, through improved wages, since this is one of the primary ways economies with open job markets distribute wealth.

Opposing an increase in wages by the people who have been losing in the inequality tug-of-war of the past 40 years means, in practical terms, supporting the continuation of the pillaging and sacking of the country in the name of the well-to-do (and, really, mostly the super rich). And yes, this group of people whose wages ought to have been going up at a faster rate since 1970 probably includes most everyone you know.

 

[NervousXtian]

You'll be waiting a long time since I never made any claims about what doubling it would do. What is it with reactionaries and reading comprehension?

..but yet what I posted is what was being discussed.

 

[Angry Fork]

His opinions about what occurred during the Yugoslavian Civil War. It was discussed in a thread before, I know Rusty Nails was involved in it (it was discussing a concentration camp photo). I'll try and find the exact thread (as it was filled with links and resources.

Regardless of your thoughts on what I post, I will provide the links as soon as I find them. I won't make an accusation like that without evidence.

EDIT: Here is the thread

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28215670&postcount=141
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28223019&postcount=188
http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2006/06/chomsky_bambooz_1.html

After seeing the picture this made me laugh:

"people could leave if they wanted and, near the thin man was a fat man and so on"

but I seriously doubt if you ask Chomsky to look at the picture and comment that he'd say the same to your face now. That would assume he's completely inept (or blind) which obviously isn't true. I don't know enough about this event to comment on Chomsky's authenticity regarding it so I won't.

I'll look up the whole story for this though (not to debate you, but just to inform myself about it and see if Chomsky did indeed fuck up here). Thanks for the links.

 

[Dude Abides]

..but yet what I posted is what was being discussed.

.GqueB. posited an unrealistic model of how wages work wherein an increase in wages is mirrored precisely by an increase in prices. You posted vague nonsense about destroying the "middle-class."

 

[.GqueB.]

.GqueB. posited an unrealistic model of how wages work wherein an increase in wages is mirrored precisely by an increase in prices. You posted vague nonsense about destroying the "middle-class."

Thing is, you said in a previous post "I never made any claims about what doubling it would do". You were responding as if you posted this long explanation of minimum wage increase and you never mentioned anything about doubling it... but never actually said anything about it at all. Or did you? Im not even sure where you came from.

 

[discoalucard]

At my last job I made about $20/hr (give or take). Im a graphic designer mostly focusing on branding. If the minimum wage was raised to $18/hr then the person who worked on a showroom floor selling furniture to whoever could come in and afford it is making the same as the person who designed the companies logo and came up with the advertising that got that customer into the door in the first place. How does this make sense? You raise the minimum wage so drastically then all of a sudden wages in general would come into question.

With this example, it sounds like you're drastically overexistimating the value of your work, and drastically underestimating this salesman.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

After seeing the picture this made me laugh:

"people could leave if they wanted and, near the thin man was a fat man and so on"

but I seriously doubt if you ask Chomsky to look at the picture and comment that he'd say the same to your face now. That would assume he's completely inept (or blind) which obviously isn't true. I don't know enough about this event to comment on Chomsky's authenticity regarding it so I won't.

I'll look up the whole story for this though (not to debate you, but just to inform myself about it and see if Chomsky did indeed fuck up here). Thanks for the links.

You're welcome. The post with the picture has a link to annotnated comments Chomsky has made on the issue.