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[rdrr gnr]

Oh god, this again Manos.

 

[.GqueB.]

With this example, it sounds like you're drastically overexistimating the value of your work, and drastically underestimating this salesman.

How is that? In most cases I would have had to work an unpaid internship, work a few years at a shitty underpaid job (as most designers have to do), compete with hundreds of other people (who probably went through the same as me) and apply to a million places just to get that one job that still didnt pay that well.

Are you going to sit there and tell me that someone who just walked into American Apparel, applied for a job and attended an interview or two should be compensated the same as me? Do you really think people in my shoes would actually stand for such a thing. It would be a disaster.

 

[Dude Abides]

Thing is, you said in a previous post "I never made any claims about what doubling it would do". You were responding as if you posted this long explanation of minimum wage increase and you never mentioned anything about doubling it... but never actually said anything about it at all. Or did you? Im not even sure where you came from.

You suggested it would be a wash - "do nothing" - to increase wages because prices would increase in lockstep, and Choke on the magic said amen. But that is not how it works. That's what I responded to.

 

[.GqueB.]

You suggested it would be a wash - "do nothing" - to increase wages because prices would increase in lockstep, and Choke on the magic said amen. But that is not how it works. That's what I responded to.

k

 

[NervousXtian]

You suggested it would be a wash - "do nothing" - to increase wages because prices would increase in lockstep, and Choke on the magic said amen. But that is not how it works. That's what I responded to.

Not as simple as that, yes.. but would it cause massive increases in prices? Yes. If you double min wage, you 1.5x the average wage of my employees, we'd have to double how much we charge for service. Where do you think that increase get's absorbed? I can't absorb it, and the people we service can't absorb it. It goes back to the consumer.

 

[Something Wicked]

It seems like there more posts discussing Manos' post count than posts Manos himself has made ...

Then again, I suppose I just contributed to the post count discussion as well.

 

[discoalucard]

How is that? In most cases I would have had to work an unpaid internship, work a few years at a shitty underpaid job (as most designers have to do), compete with hundreds of other people (who probably went through the same as me) and apply to a million places just to get that one job that still didnt pay that well.

Are you going to sit there and tell me that someone who just walked into American Apparel, applied for a job and attended an interview or two should be compensated the same as me? Do you really think people in my shoes would actually stand for such a thing. It would be a disaster.

Salesmen provide a tangible benefit to a company. There are at the very forefront of customer service, and their monetary value can actively be traced by the sales they make. Whereas your graphic designs just appear on a sign which may or may not attract customers. How much value are you actually giving to the company? Who knows!

To be honest I don't disagree with your point, tripling the minimum wage would be fundamentally disastrous. I'm just picking on it because I think this line of thinking is extremely unhealthy, because there's a lot of "my work is worth more than this other guy, he should get paid less/benefits stripped/etc." That's equally as unhealthy to the middle class by suggesting that any jobs that aren't as "educated" as yours don't at least deserve a living wage. I think this is only going to become more prevalent as you have a generation that grew up going to college, looking down upon people that didn't and ensuring their wages are surpressed.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

You suggested it would be a wash - "do nothing" - to increase wages because prices would increase in lockstep, and Choke on the magic said amen. But that is not how it works. That's what I responded to.

So by your logic doubling min wage would have no impact on the price of goods and services? Ok.

 

[kame-sennin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1iNmMPVP49I

Keith Olberman talking about the historical significance of Michael Bloomberg.

I cant believe it

This is the woman who got pepper sprayed right?

 

[Fenderputty]

So by your logic doubling min wage would have no impact on the price of goods and services? Ok.

Where the hell did you get that? More like it wouldn't have the exact effect. If you double minimum wages, things will not double in price. Labor is not the only expense in a service or product driven business.

Not as simple as that, yes.. but would it cause massive increases in prices? Yes. If you double min wage, you 1.5x the average wage of my employees, we'd have to double how much we charge for service. Where do you think that increase get's absorbed? I can't absorb it, and the people we service can't absorb it. It goes back to the consumer

I'm curious, but why would you have to double what you charge when you yourself said your labor would only increase by 1.5? Are there other costs to your service or is it just Labor?

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Where the hell did you get that? More like it wouldn't have the exact effect. If you double minimum wages, things will not double in price. Labor is not the only expense in a service or product driven business.



I'm curious, but why would you have to double what you charge when you yourself said your labor would only increase by 1.5? Are there other costs to your service or is it just Labor?

I never said the price would double, just that it would have a noticable impact.

 

[bloodydrake]

So I'm absolutely loving the Monster Hunter International books so went and was reading Larry Correai's site Monster Hunter Nation, cool guy overall.
Noticed his latest Blog is about the whole Occupy movement. Or well more his absolute distaste for it.

more-reasons-why-the-occupy-movement-sucks-and-is-lame

Great read some really good points and some lol moments specially the youtube link to the Occupy fella crapping on the street!

 

[Dude Abides]

Not as simple as that, yes.. but would it cause massive increases in prices? Yes. If you double min wage, you 1.5x the average wage of my employees, we'd have to double how much we charge for service. Where do you think that increase get's absorbed? I can't absorb it, and the people we service can't absorb it. It goes back to the consumer.

Some of it would. It depends on the elasticity of demand for the product, the labor market in the area, and a lot of other things.

So by your logic doubling min wage would have no impact on the price of goods and services? Ok.

Nope. Reading comprehension how does it work?

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Some of it would. It depends on the elasticity of demand for the product, the labor market in the area, and a lot of other things.



Nope. Reading comprehension how does it work?

You must think you're something special huh? I'm apparently not the only one who doesn't understand your nonsensical rants.

 

[Something Wicked]

The country would not even get to the hyper inflation phase with a dramatic raise in the national minimum wage. Most small businesses simply do not have the money to pay their workers at significantly higher wages. Raise the minimum wage too high and too fast, businesses will lay-off people en masse and never hire any new employees.

Mass unemployment and eternal economic stagnation sound good to you? Then vote for the OWS Party plan!

 

[Dude Abides]

You must think you're something special huh? I'm apparently not the only one who doesn't understand your nonsensical rants.

Nope. I don't think understanding what is taught in the first month of an introductory economics course makes me particularly special.

 

[Loki]

I find this argument odd. If you raise the minimum wage so drastically, then doesnt this mean the wages of skilled workers should get raised to offset it? Once you start raising minimum wage, then prices in general are going to have to go up so businesses can afford to pay these wages. So in general, raising the minimum wage by so much would essentially do nothing.

I'm sick and tired of this shortsighted and disingenuous argument. The answer is YES, the wages/income of BASICALLY EVERY PERSON SAVE FOR THE TOP 1-2% would increase proportionately. What has happened over the last 30 years is a drastic transfer of wealth to the top 1%. They have funneled virtually all of the gains in productivity we've made over the last 30 years into their own pockets. It's time for a more equitable distribution of those gains, and of the wealth of our nation. Not entirely equitable, obviously (I'm no communist), but MORE equitable than presently, definitely.

And if the entire wage/income scale save for the top 1-2% increased to WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN had the proportionate share of wealth and income ratios of the 50's-70's remained unchanged until the present day, Americans would have NO PROBLEM AT ALL paying increased prices for common goods and services. The cost of goods and services would not have to rise to the same degree that wages/income would due to the very nature of industrial production. They would rise, but not enough to offset the gains in wages/income for the majority of Americans.

Why the FUCK people can't understand this irks me to no end. Sorry for the caps, but this irritates me.

 

[.GqueB.]

Salesmen provide a tangible benefit to a company. There are at the very forefront of customer service, and their monetary value can actively be traced by the sales they make. Whereas your graphic designs just appear on a sign which may or may not attract customers. How much value are you actually giving to the company? Who knows!

To be honest I don't disagree with your point, tripling the minimum wage would be fundamentally disastrous. I'm just picking on it because I think this line of thinking is extremely unhealthy, because there's a lot of "my work is worth more than this other guy, he should get paid less/benefits stripped/etc." That's equally as unhealthy to the middle class by suggesting that any jobs that aren't as "educated" as yours don't at least deserve a living wage. I think this is only going to become more prevalent as you have a generation that grew up going to college, looking down upon people that didn't and ensuring their wages are surpressed.

I never said I disagreed with raising it. I made it a point to say (just about everytime I mentioned this) why raise it so "drastically". I think $10 - $12 an hour would be fine. $18 - $20, as I said, would just cause issues across the board. Its ridiculous.

And I think the idea of liveable wage is hard to debate. I remember empty vessel mentioned that 24k a year is a liveable wage. Where? Not where I live. Thats also complicates the debate quite a bit.

 

[Angry Fork]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1iNmMPVP49I

Keith Olberman talking about the historical significance of Michael Bloomberg.

Awesome, I love Keith's special comments.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Nope. I don't think understanding what is taught in the first month of an introductory economics course makes me particularly special.

Maybe just being a huge tool with nothing to add to a conversation is? What would you suggest. You seem to only be good at telling others they're wrong.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

The timing of the crackdowns couldn't have been worse, with the debt commission deadline looming. News networks are already shifting focus back to the deficit and the *gasp* DREADED DEFENSE CUTS.

 

[.GqueB.]

I'm sick and tired of this shortsighted and disingenuous argument. The answer is YES, the wages/income of BASICALLY EVERY PERSON SAVE FOR THE TOP 1-2% would increase proportionately. What has happened over the last 30 years is a drastic transfer of wealth to the top 1%. They have funneled virtually all of the gains in productivity we've made over the last 30 years into their own pockets. It's time for a more equitable distribution of those gains, and of the wealth of our nation. Not entirely equitable, obviously (I'm no communist), but MORE equitable than presently, definitely.

And if the entire wage/income scale save for the top 1-2% increased to WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN had the proportionate share of wealth and income ratios of the 50's-70's remained unchanged until the present day, Americans would have NO PROBLEM AT ALL paying increased prices for common goods and services.

Why the FUCK people can't understand this irks me to no end. Sorry for the caps, but this irritates me.

The italicized is all you really had to say dude. You guys have only mentioned the minimum wage increase and nothing else soooo... thats what I took issue with. From what I saw, no one in the last few pages mentioned what would happen to the salaries between the minimum and maximum... until you just yelled it at me for some reason.

Unless I missed it in which case: "my bad".

 

[Something Wicked]

And if the entire wage/income scale save for the top 1-2% increased to WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN had the proportionate share of wealth and income ratios of the 50's-70's remained unchanged until the present day, Americans would have NO PROBLEM AT ALL paying increased prices for common goods and services.

What special thing have you done for this country to deserve a higher wage? Why should anyone pay you more for your current skill set and experience? Does just simply existing entitle you to what you demand?

I never said I disagreed with raising it. I made it a point to say (just about everytime I mentioned this) why raise it so "drastically". I think $10 - $12 an hour would be fine. $18 - $20, as I said, would just cause issues across the board. Its ridiculous.

And I think the idea of liveable wage is hard to debate. I remember empty vessel mentioned that 24k a year is a liveable wage. Where? Not where I live. Thats also complicates the debate quite a bit.

As you exemplify, cost of living varies significantly throughout the United States. Therefore, minimum wage issues should not be primarily solved by federal policies, but more so state and local ones.

 

[Loki]

What special thing have you done for this country to deserve a higher wage? Why should anyone pay you more for your current skill set and experience? Does just simply existing entitle you to what you demand?

lulz @ the ignorance

 

[.GqueB.]

What special thing have you done for this country to deserve a higher wage? Why should anyone pay you more for your current skill set and experience? Does just simply existing entitle you to what you demand.

I think (THINK) what theyre saying is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer in a sense. On the flip side, you could easily ask what the rich have dont to deserve their ever increasing wages.

At least that what I think hes trying to say. Im kind of learning as Im going along here.

 

[discoalucard]

I never said I disagreed with raising it. I made it a point to say (just about everytime I mentioned this) why raise it so "drastically". I think $10 - $12 an hour would be fine. $18 - $20, as I said, would just cause issues across the board. Its ridiculous.

And I think the idea of liveable wage is hard to debate. I remember empty vessel mentioned that 24k a year is a liveable wage. Where? Not where I live. Thats also complicates the debate quite a bit.

We're mostly on the same page with that, then. Here in north NJ, a full time job with a minimum wage will barely even get you a single bedroom apartment, much less pay for utilities, a car or insurance. When I graduated from college and went into retail, I was OK with my $7 an hour (above minimum wage, technically) because I was still living with my parents and just waiting to get a job in my field. Then I saw that there were many other older people in my payscale that actually had to use that money to pay rent and in a few cases, support families. At the time I wondered how they did it - if the credit crisis is any indicator, they probably didn't do it very well. These people might not deserve fancy houses, but as long as they're working, they deserve a sustainable, not completely terrible life. It's a very concrete example of wages not keeping up with living expenses, especially in areas like this.

 

[Angry Fork]

Does just simply existing entitle you to what you demand?

It does for health care and education. Both should be rights by birth. I don't give a shit about being 'entitled' to more money and bigger TV's, that I can work for, but people can't tell me I don't deserve to be healthy or get a degree because I don't have enough money.

 

[richiek]

I work at Hunter College in NYC and there's talk of a huge demonstration happening here in reaction to the NYPD's actions last night. There's security guards everywhere and our offices are now instructed to lock our doors.

 

[gkryhewy]

How is that? In most cases I would have had to work an unpaid internship, work a few years at a shitty underpaid job (as most designers have to do), compete with hundreds of other people (who probably went through the same as me) and apply to a million places just to get that one job that still didnt pay that well.

Are you going to sit there and tell me that someone who just walked into American Apparel, applied for a job and attended an interview or two should be compensated the same as me? Do you really think people in my shoes would actually stand for such a thing. It would be a disaster.

While the $18 minimum wage idea is absurd... what are you talking about? Since when does time invested correlate to a profession's market value? There are plenty of people who invest blood, sweat, and tears around the world on charitable causes for peanuts. You can't spit without hitting a middling graphic designer (edit: I don't mean that in a disparaging way, but a pragmatic one: if more people want to do something than there are jobs available, wages will be low).

 

[Dude Abides]

Maybe just being a huge tool with nothing to add to a conversation is? What would you suggest. You seem to only be good at telling others they're wrong.

What's wrong with correcting errors? Are you one of those who thinks ignorance is bliss?

 

[Something Wicked]

It does for health care and education. Both should be rights by birth. I don't give a shit about being 'entitled' to more money and bigger TV's, that I can work for, but people can't tell me I don't deserve to be healthy or get a degree because I don't have enough money.

Healthcare and education are extremely broad topics.

What do you want for free?

Free college tuition and board to any university in the world? A free Xanax prescription? Free MRIs? Free heart and brain surgeries? Free chemo treatments? Free laser eye procedures? Free plastic surgery?

I want to see the specifics of your demands.

 

[Fenderputty]

I think (THINK) what theyre saying is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer in a sense. On the flip side, you could easily ask what the rich have done to deserve their ever increasing wages.

At least that what I think hes trying to say. Im kind of learning as Im going along here.

What they've done is successfully invest money in order to shape public policy in their favor. They've managed to convince half a nation that less and less taxes will enable them to provide us lowly fucks with jobs and higher wages. Why spend money on bettering the business when you can just spend money on shapping the conditions in which your business exists?

 

[.GqueB.]

While the $18 minimum wage idea is absurd... what are you talking about? Since when does time invested correlate to a profession's market value? There are plenty of people who invest blood, sweat, and tears around the world on charitable causes for peanuts. You can't spit without hitting a middling graphic designer.

Yea I guess youre right. In order to continue down this road we'd have to start talking about who deserves what wage and when which is impossible to gauge. Who knows. Not a debate worth having.

 

[akira28]

I cant believe it

This would probably start some thing. If bannerized.

 

[NervousXtian]

I'm curious, but why would you have to double what you charge when you yourself said your labor would only increase by 1.5? Are there other costs to your service or is it just Labor?

The base wage of an employee isn't the only cost to an employer.

 

[Angry Fork]

Healthcare and education are extremely broad topics.

What do you want for free?

Free college tuition and board to any university in the world? A free Xanax prescription? Free MRIs? Free heart and brain surgeries? Free chemo treatments? Free laser eye procedures? Free plastic surgery?

I want to see the specifics of your demands.

Well nothing is free, I want people who make more money to pay higher taxes so people who make less can get ALL healthcare (no matter what, as long as it's real injury) for free.

As far as things like cosmetic surgery goes, it depends if it's after an accident and they're disfigured, or whether some fat lady wants liposuction. These things can be decided on fairly easily on a case to case basis. But if someone gets into a car accident and breaks their leg, they should never ever have to pay 5 grand to fix it if they don't have insurance.

My overall opinion on who gets what would be need based. If you have a broken leg and need it fixed, it's done for free. If your eyes work fine with glasses then you're not going to get eye surgery for free, that's something that's a luxury and you should save up for. Keeping people healthy by fixing real injuries is not giving them luxuries or 'entitlements'. Same applies for education. There's libraries and people can learn a lot on their own for cheap, but that never translates into a job because degrees (and your connections) are what matter not how educated someone is (this should obviously change as well).

 

[Choke on the Magic]

What's wrong with correcting errors? Are you one of those who thinks ignorance is bliss?

Except you actually aren't correcting anything. You fit right in with OWS squatters.

 

[bill gonorrhea]

Gotta grab the headlines....

http://www.king5.com/news/cities/seattle/Pregnant-teen-elderly-woman-among-pepper-sprayed-at-Occupy-Seattle-133955378.html

Shame on your King 5... you make it seem like the police just randomly started spraying them. They only did it after a girl (17-19) hit an officer with a stick or pole or something.

 

[Dude Abides]

Except you actually aren't correcting anything. You fit right in with OWS squatters.

I've corrected your silly misconceptions. You should be grateful instead of whining.

 

[Something Wicked]

Well nothing is free, I want people who make more money to pay higher taxes so people who make less can get ALL healthcare (no matter what, as long as it's real injury) for free.

You do understand no country in the world provides such healthcare? The Canadian, French, British, German, and Japanese governments do give any citizen unlimited healthcare resources. Citizens of such countries do not receive unlimited chemo treatments (if they receive such treatments at all) for cancer (in fact, the US has the highest cancer survival rates in the world). There are massive difference in costs between minor surgeries and treating common illnesses versus highly fatal diseases and extremely complicated surgeries.

So do you believe simply existing entitles one to millions of dollars in healthcare costs- on top of hundreds of thousands of dollars in tertiary education costs?

 

[Choke on the Magic]

I've corrected your silly misconceptions. You should be grateful instead of whining.

You've done nothing, but prove you're a troll. Must be upset since your tent got ripped or something.

 

[Dude Abides]

You've done nothing, but prove you're a troll. Must be upset since your tent got ripped or something.

I corrected your derpy understanding of the influence of wages on prices. I realize it can be irritating to have one's ignorance exposed in public, but the fault ultimately lies with the ignorant.

 

[Jak140]

Seems Rush was out to prove the adage about even a broken clock being right twice a day.

That said, two top Republicans made stunning moves this week to appropriate a part of the Democratic formula. Importantly, the moves came at a time where we’re seeing particularly heated spasms of Occupy Wall Street protests and subsequent backlash. That timing shows that at least some in the GOP correctly appreciate the transpartisan appeal of the Occupy movement and the underdog populism it truly embodies.

The first bit of news came from ultra-conservative Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., who not only used his special power as senior Republican on the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations to issue a report condemning millionaire tax breaks, but also couched the report in the kind of no-holds-barred rhetoric that defines the Occupy protests. As the Hill newspaper reported (emphasis mine):

The report found millionaires enjoy about $30 billion worth of “tax giveaways” and federal grants every year — almost twice NASA’s budget, the report notes.

“From tax write-offs for gambling losses, vacation homes and luxury yachts to subsidies for their ranches and estates, the government is subsidizing the lifestyles of the rich and famous. Multimillionaires are even receiving government checks for not working,” Coburn said in a statement Monday…

“This welfare for the well-off — costing billions of dollars a year — is being paid for with the taxes of the less fortunate, many who are working two jobs just to make ends meet, and IOUs to be paid off by future generations. We should never demonize those who are successful. Nor should we pamper them with unnecessary welfare to create an appearance everyone is benefiting from federal programs,” Coburn said.

This was followed up by none other than Rush Limbaugh, who, in the midst of an otherwise absurd and hyper-partisan screed about the Clinton family, stumbled into a spot-on analysis of the divide between the 99 percent and the 1 percent and the larger unfairness of the bipartisan power structure in modern American life. Discussing the recent announcement that Chelsea Clinton — who has no journalistic experience whatsoever — will now be a top correspondent for NBC News, Limbaugh echoed some of the points made (far more cogently) by my Salon colleague Glenn Greenwald. He said (emphasis mine):

All of a sudden she’s at the top of the media. She’s at the top of the ladder. She’s paid no dues. Not born on third base. Born at home plate after the home run. She has not worked anywhere in journalism. She’s never had a job.

Now, that gets to the other point of this. Let’s go down to Occupy Wall Street or wherever else that there’s an Occupy, or go wherever there is a collection of liberals. What are they mad about? They’re mad about the 1 percent, and what are they mad about about the 1 percent? The 1 percent’s got it all. The 1 percent has everything and they’re not sharing it with anybody, and they didn’t work for it. There aren’t any jobs for anybody else because the 1 percent are making sure they’ve got all the jobs and they’ve got all the money.

So here we come with Mr. Democrat Party, the highest ranking, biggest star, most respected member of the Democrat Party, and with pure nepotism and nothing else his daughter, who is unqualified for this job, gets pushed ahead of everybody that works at NBC and gets this job. This is the quintessential thing the 99 percent are fed up with, that they don’t have a chance, that the game’s rules are rigged, that everything’s stacked against them…

And with apparently just a phone call, all Bill Clinton had to do, pick up the phone and call Steve Capus at NBC or Jeff Immelt or whoever, we don’t know, and say, “Hey, I have this person interested in working for you.” “Who, Mr. President?” “Well, you may have heard, name’s Chelsea.” “Oh, say no more.” Because NBC doesn’t want to consider the alternative of saying “no.”

So here you have a very prominent member of the 1 percent who flaunts that membership of the 1 percent greasing the skids for a child who’s unqualified and inexperienced. What does that say to all these people with all of these thousands of dollars in student loans, desperately trying, they think, to get jobs to pay off their student loans? They think the game is stacked against them. They think that the rules are rigged, that people like them are shut out, don’t have a chance.

More at the link:

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/16/the_gop_embraces_ows/

 

[NervousXtian]

I corrected your derpy understanding of the influence of wages on prices. I realize it can be irritating to have one's ignorance exposed in public, but the fault ultimately lies with the ignorant.

You haven't done that though.

 

[.GqueB.]

You've done nothing, but prove you're a troll. Must be upset since your tent got ripped or something.

Just respond "k" and end it. Stop being so trollable, lol. You're getting trolled pretty relentlessly right now and its getting hard to watch.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

add another to the ignore list.

Just respond "k" and end it. Stop being so trollable, lol. You're getting trolled pretty relentlessly right now and its getting hard to watch.

It's been handled.

You haven't done that though.

And he has no intention of it. Too many white russians.

 

[.GqueB.]

It's been handled.

There you gooooooo.[/cartman]

 

[Angry Fork]

You do understand no country in the world provides such healthcare? The Canadian, French, British, German, and Japanese governments do give any citizen unlimited healthcare resources. Citizens of such countries do not receive unlimited chemo treatments (if they receive such treatments at all) for cancer (in fact, the US has the highest cancer survival rates in the world). There are massive difference in costs between minor surgeries and treating common illnesses versus highly fatal diseases and extremely complicated surgeries.

So do you believe simply existing entitles one to millions of dollars in healthcare costs- on top of hundreds of thousands of dollars in tertiary education costs?

It of course depends on the cause. If you smoked and drinked all your life you're gonna have to pay it yourself. If it's something that just sprang up because you're unlucky then yea they deserve to have it paid for them.

I'm not excusing personal responsibility, you can't expect to do hard drugs all your life, need medical treatment and then have everything given to you. But for normal every day hard working people they do not deserve to have their retirement savings robbed of them if they ever got in an accident or fell victim to a disease. As cold as this sounds I'd also factor age into things though, you can't spend a million dollars on a 97 year old who has cancer.

And I think with the amount of money all the collective millionaires/billionaires in the entire US has, they can pay for it. Nobody needs a 20 million dollar empty mansion with 50,000$ furniture. They don't want to though because they think their life is worth more (and the sad thing is that's pretty much true in America right now, you're not worth anything to anyone except your family/friends if you're poor). Capitalism basically breeds and encourages immorality at the highest level, unless one is an objectivist and believes being selfish is correct morality.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

It of course depends on the cause. If you smoked and drinked all your life you're gonna have to pay it yourself. If it's something that just sprang up because you're unlucky then yea they deserve to have it paid for them.

I'm not excusing personal responsibility, you can't expect to do hard drugs all your life, need medical treatment and then have everything given to you. But for normal every day hard working people they do not deserve to have their retirement savings robbed of them if they ever got in an accident or fell victim to a disease. As cold as this sounds I'd also factor age into things though, you can't spend a million dollars on a 97 year old who has cancer.

And I think with the amount of money all the collective millionaires/billionaires in the entire US has, they can pay for it. Nobody needs a 20 million dollar empty mansion with 50,000$ furniture. They don't want to though because they think their life is worth more (and the sad thing is that's pretty much true in America right now, you're not worth anything to anyone except your family/friends if you're poor). Capitalism basically breeds and encourages immorality at the highest level, unless one is an objectivist and believes being selfish is correct morality.

Depending on the federal government to make that call correctly? That scares the shit out of me.

 

[Fenderputty]

The base wage of an employee isn't the only cost to an employer.

That's sort of my point. If 30% of your expense pie is labor and that doubles, then why would your sell price double for your product or service?

My current costs are 100 dollars. Current sell price is 143 for 30% profit. 30$ of my initial costs just doubled and now costs me $60 . I now pay $130 dollars total in expenses. If I keep my same margins, my sell price would jump to $186. A whole whopping 23% increase.

I know this is a simplistic example and other expenses could potentially go up, but saying all prices would double if cheap labor does is even more simplistic.