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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!

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J

Joe

Member
Manos how the hell do you stay awake for so long? You've been a posting machine in the day and a half leading up to the downtime.
 
K

kame-sennin

Member
Something Wicked said:
The article does not address what I stated. The article more so demonstrates the incompetence of the SEC rather than "why Wall Street should go to jail." Even the anti-SEC spiel a bit misguided, as it should have been Congress to pass laws for the SEC to enforce and the credit agencies to measure the "riskiness" of companies financial transactions.

Taibbi does not state any specific law that most of "Wall Street" broke and only gives a couple names of people who made a shit ton of money from the real-estate bubble via unethical means- not necessarily illegal means. The comment section has more intelligently written descriptions of what actually happened than Hacky Mchackhack Taibbi's populist fanboy rant.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. Since the article did not fully address your questions, I'll re-address the points you made:

Something Wicked said:
A) Most weren't doing anything against any real laws. Government officials had years to regulate against inflating the real-estate market, which they didn't- in fact, many in Congress completely encouraged the behavior.

Then again, if you're still not convinced, find me the specific laws and which specific people who broke those laws- just blabbering company names is not sufficient.


B) The logistics of taking of 100,000s or even 10,000s of people to court with little evidence for most of the individuals would be absolutely insane. Only the lawyers would win.
Click to expand...

A) The crime Wall Street committed was fraud. Specifically, companies like Goldman Sachs bought mortgages from risky borrowers - the kind of people who are often criticized in these threads - who were not likely to be able to pay off their loans. Then they took those mortgages, and knowing that they were bad investments*, sold them to investors. In order to hide the low credit ratings of these mortgages they packaged them together in what's known as a collateralized debt obligation (CDO). This is essentially taking multiple mortgages, some from reliable borrowers (AAA rated investments) and some from unreliable borrowers (junk investments), and by selling them as a package, the overall investment received a AAA rating. This meant that the investor who bought the CDO from Goldman was holding a ticking time bomb. They bought mortgages, expecting to receive steady payments from borrowers, that were doomed to be foreclosed on.

*How do we know that Goldman was aware that they were selling bad investments? Because after selling those investments, Goldman then turned around and took out an insurance policy against those loans with firms like AIG. If the mortgages went under, Goldman would receive a big cash payment - and they did. In other words, Goldman presented junk mortgages as AAA rated investments, and then bet against those same investments. That's the textbook definition of fraud. It's like a car salesmen selling a car with no brakes, and then taking an insurance policy out on the driver.

I'm not sure who exactly was responsible for what, although I believe Taibbi names names in his Goldman article, but there are certainly guilty parties who could be investigated and prosecuted.

B) Only the high level executives who knowingly perpetrated fraud would go to jail. Nobody wants to send secretaries and mail guys from Goldman to federal prison. That's not even an option.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
empty vessel said:
Bankers Association given $850,000 proposal by marketing firm to construct “negative narratives” about the OWS movement. Or, who manipulates Manos and how:

http://upwithchrishayes.msnbc.msn.c...ut-plan-to-undermine-occupy-wall-street-video
Click to expand...

Yawn.

Of course since it goes against your view it's manipulation, big shock coming from empty vessel

Besides anyone needing to spend any month to find all the real negative instances, crimes, violence, support for murdering elected officials from Occupy is giving away some real easy money. Lol

This is of course all coming from a Chomsky fanboy, so everything is about propaganda and control of the media, blah blah.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
lawblob said:
That pepper-spraying UC Davis cop should be fired and arrested immediately. My god.

http://t.co/Vrb9vEh2
Click to expand...

First its from Russia today so who knows what the real context is. Second, that's actually fairly normal to do, the idea is to ensure when you go into move them they won't try and knife you, grab on to you, etc. I've seen things before when people locked onto trees and they had to be cut out cops use cotton swaps to place it on their eyes.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
makingmusic476 said:
According to the stream, a private security firm has been hired to help out with crowds in NY.

I didn't quite catch the name.
Click to expand...

Well I guess OWS can claim to have helped the economy now, at least for PSC/PMCS. Lol

I wonder who NY is using? In the end OWS is going to wish for the NYPD compred to the dunderheads and rejects who make up security company employees.
 
H

happyfunball

Member
lawblob said:
That pepper-spraying UC Davis cop should be fired and arrested immediately. My god.

http://t.co/Vrb9vEh2
Click to expand...

What, don't all parents want their kids growing up to be oppressive, intolerant scum?

We obviously need a serious change in this country about how we train our police force and what their perceived mission is. Maybe even standard evaluation to eliminate people like this displaying obvious signs of psychopathy.
 
A

alstein

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Well I guess OWS can claim to have helped the economy now, at least for PSC/PMCS. Lol

I wonder who NY is using? In the end OWS is going to wish for the NYPD compred to the dunderheads and rejects who make up security company employees.
Click to expand...

Or people will make the logical equation that the 1%/Bloomberg has hired the goon squad/ Blackwater.

The more inhuman/despotic you make Bloomberg and his ilk appear to me (which they're helping out with), the more you make your cause look like something they fear.
 
K

Kikujiro

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Yawn.

Of course since it goes against your view it's manipulation, big shock coming from empty vessel

Besides anyone needing to spend any month to find all the real negative instances, crimes, violence, support for murdering elected officials from Occupy is giving away some real easy money. Lol

This is of course all coming from a Chomsky fanboy, so everything is about propaganda and control of the media, blah blah.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right and everybody is wrong. This thread is basically about you saying how the protesters are stupid and blablabla. I came here to read some news or debate to only find a monologue of yours. And it's not like you're sharing information, views or what, you're only doing shallow opposition to everyone who dare to say something good about the protest.

GAF going down must have been crazy for you.
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
happyfunball said:
What, don't all parents want their kids growing up to be oppressive, intolerant scum?

We obviously need a serious change in this country about how we train our police force and what their perceived mission is. Maybe even standard evaluation to eliminate people like this displaying obvious signs of psychopathy.
Click to expand...

Are you ten? Do you realize how long police brutality has been going on and it's just NOW that you think a 'serious change' needs to happen after kids got pepper sprayed? At least they weren't sprayed with bullets.

Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
I heard on KYW one of them had a seizure last night when blocking a Wells Fargo and had to be saved by the cops.
Click to expand...

A protestor or someone leaving the building? Anyways, some girl was yelling at people "captialism is organized crime, stop shopping, stop texting, turn off the tv" as I went to Trader Joes to pick up something to eat, texted a friend to see if anything was going on and planned to head home to play Skyrim to relax. Sorry anti-capitalsim girl, we were never meant to be.
 
B

Barrett2

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
First its from Russia today so who knows what the real context is. Second, that's actually fairly normal to do, the idea is to ensure when you go into move them they won't try and knife you, grab on to you, etc. I've seen things before when people locked onto trees and they had to be cut out cops use cotton swaps to place it on their eyes.
Click to expand...

Unless they secretly replaced those UC Davis students with the street gang from Death Wish 4 (a great movie), i'm pretty sure that cop wasn't in danger of getting knifed.

The broader implications of that scene are also crazy to think about. So its ok for the university to allow every bank, credit card company and pizza place to set up booths and kiosks on the university sidewalks every day of the year, but as soon as a group of ten students sit down in a row on the sidewalk, *that's* when its appropriate to send in trigger-happy Paddy McPepperSpray?
 
M

makingmusic476

Member
I don't think it was Blackwater. I heard the name and forgot it a second later because something else grabbed my attention, but I would've noticed if it were Blackwater.

Apparently some people are holding a Truther rally at WTC7 today. Tim (the streamer) was like "I am NOT getting involved in that" lol.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
Kikujiro said:
Yeah, you're right and everybody is wrong. This thread is basically about you saying how the protesters are stupid and blablabla. I came here to read some news or debate to only find a monologue of yours. And it's not like you're sharing information, views or what, you're only doing shallow opposition to everyone who dare to say something good about the protest.
Click to expand...
Actually I have been sharing views and links, and pictures, but eh whatever.


GAF going down must have been crazy for you.
Click to expand...
Not really I did some house cleaning, target shooting, and started AC Revelations.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
First its from Russia today so who knows what the real context is. Second, that's actually fairly normal to do, the idea is to ensure when you go into move them they won't try and knife you, grab on to you, etc. I've seen things before when people locked onto trees and they had to be cut out cops use cotton swaps to place it on their eyes.
Click to expand...


The context of the video is very clear. Students are lying down peacefully, cop goes up to Pepper Spray them for no reason.

By your argument, when a Cop does a traffic stop for speeding, he should shoot the tires first because you might drive away. Then he should come up and pepper spray you before asking any questions because you might do something. Then just to be sure he should have his gun pointed at you in case you do something.

And this is not the first instance of cops over reacting to Occupy protests.
 
H

happyfunball

Member
Alucrid said:
Are you ten? Do you realize how long police brutality has been going on and it's just NOW that you think a 'serious change' needs to happen after kids got pepper sprayed? At least they weren't sprayed with bullets.
Click to expand...

Because police have acted like idiots for ages means we should accept it? After seeing the brutality of police forces around this country during the civil rights protests, it's disappointing to see the same mentality held by our cops today against largely peaceful protests. At least during my education, those were taught as shameful acts by the police of their time.

At least they weren't sprayed with bullets? You've got to be a troll, right?
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
lawblob said:
Unless they secretly replaced those UC Davis students with the street gang from Death Wish 4 (a great movie), i'm pretty sure that cop wasn't in danger of getting knifed.
Click to expand...
I've actually never seen 4, I've seen up to 3, which is such a hilariously over the top movie. Pure 1980s Cannon Trasherpeice

The broader implications of that scene are also crazy to think about. So its ok for the university to allow every bank, credit card company and pizza place to set up booths and kiosks on the university sidewalks every day of the year, but as soon as a group of ten students sit down in a row on the sidewalk, *that's* when its appropriate to send in trigger-happy Paddy McPepperSpray?
Click to expand...
Well it depends on ownership of the property and besides would prefer it being doing self help method?
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
happyfunball said:
Because police have acted like idiots for ages means we should accept it? After seeing the brutality of police forces around this country during the civil rights protests, it's disappointing to see the same mentality held by our cops today against largely peaceful protests. At least during my education, those were taught as shameful acts by the police of their time.

At least they weren't sprayed with bullets? You've got to be a troll, right?
Click to expand...

No, I just find it funny that it's protestors being pepper sprayed that sparked your "this must change" outrage.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
Alucrid said:
They're still there, but now they're roaming about the city targeting various places to protest in front of. Better not be my workplace, we're not even the 'bad guys.'
Click to expand...

Occupy Philly seems to be a bunch of idiots who like screwing up peoples daily commute, so who knows.

Hopefully they at least would shit all over your work place like they do in Dilworth Plaza.


cartoon_soldier said:
The context of the video is very clear. Students are lying down peacefully, cop goes up to Pepper Spray them for no reason.
Click to expand...
Failure to leave an unlawful assembly is a reason. That said it's good to see the Kremlin getting a return on it's investment.
 
H

happyfunball

Member
Alucrid said:
No, I just find it funny that it's protestors being pepper sprayed that sparked your "this must change" outrage.
Click to expand...

You can interpret it as being my thoughts on police actions during this whole ordeal. But, yea, seeing kids staging a peaceful sit-in on a sidewalk in the middle of a campus getting pepper-sprayed in the face for no reason; pretty shameful on the part of that cop and those that just stood there and said nothing.
 
B

Barrett2

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Well it depends on ownership of the property and besides would prefer it being doing self help method?
Click to expand...

True, and in honesty I have no idea what the vendor presence or policies are at UC Davis. But as a state school, if it's anything like the U of Utah, im' guessing you can't walk more than five feet without some dudebro at a sidewalk kiosk trying to talk to you about a bank's sweet promotion.

And look, we can all agree on something; every single entry in the Death Wish movie series is fucking GOLD. The dystopian future(?) presented in those movies is incredible, because they paint such a schizophrenic picture. Some attractive single woman leaves her apartment and is immediately surrounded by knife wielding thugs every day of her life, yet the conceit of the movie is that the normal citizens still attempt to live a normal life in what is essentially a dystopian hell? It's amazing.
 
H

happyfunball

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Occupy Philly seems to be a bunch of idiots who like screwing up peoples daily commute, so who knows.
.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen that I guess because I walk to work but the one thing I have noticed is less of the brown-clothed patchouli-drenched people walking around. I guess City Hall is their new home which is fine by me, win-win actually, I agree with general sentiment of fighting income inequality and hate the smell of patchouli.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
lawblob said:
True, and in honesty I have no idea what the vendor presence or policies are at UC Davis. But as a state school, if it's anything like the U of Utah, im' guessing you can't walk more than five feet without some dudebro at a sidewalk kiosk trying to talk to you about a bank's sweet promotion.
Click to expand...
True though I remember it being unofficial and not authorized students red bull street team in the library once. Lol

Definitely know what you're talking about too.

And look, we can all agree on something; every single entry in the Death Wish movie series is fucking GOLD. The dystopian future(?) presented in those movies is incredible, because they paint such a schizophrenic picture. Some attractive single woman leaves her apartment and is immediately surrounded by knife wielding thugs every day of her life, yet the conceit of the movie is that the normal citizens still attempt to live a normal life in what is essentially a dystopian hell? It's amazing.
Click to expand...
Oh god yeah it's isane. However have you ever seen Cellat aka Turkish Death Wish, it's even more crazy. That said I think the first one is sort of different than the sequels in a certain ways. This is making me think we need a Bronson or Death Wish thread, it's so crazy how many before they were stars turn up in those movies. I think Counselor Troi nearly gets gang raped in one!
 
B

Barrett2

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Oh god yeah it's isane. However have you ever seen Cellat aka Turkish Death Wish, it's even more crazy. That said I think the first one is sort of different than the sequels in a certain ways. This is making me think we need a Bronson or Death Wish thread, it's so crazy how many before they were stars turn up in those movies. I think Counselor Troi nearly gets gang raped in one!
Click to expand...


It's been so long since i've seen any of them, im' putting them on my Netflix que this week.
 
A

akira28

Member
Erm...Death Wish a dystopian future movie? No dude that was definitely 1970's New York, as imagined by the "crime is destroying America' mentality. Or this is how we imagine the world when we're raised on the Evening news.

Rocket Scientist said:
I think that is (rightfully) frowned upon at GAF.
Click to expand...

Nope. They put themselves in the meat grinder, they know what can happen. Pepperspray? They should be happy they're still breathing.

edit: oh you're talking about the cop's info? No that's not frowned upon. Personal info, yes. Professional info? Why would that be frowned upon? That's his police dept email addy. His Badge number shuold be up there too. Assuming its the right person.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
badcrumble said:
Information on the officer who pepper sprayed the peaceful students at UC-Davis:

Lieutenant John Pike
<deleted info that badcrumble posted>
He gets no anonymity. He deserves no anonymity. And he needs to be made accountable for his actions.
Click to expand...

So what you're going to clog his email box and send a bunch of pizzas there?

Ah good old internet mob "justice" lol

akira28 said:
Erm...Death Wish a dystopian future movie? No dude that was definitely 1970's New York, as imagined by the "crime is destroying America' mentality. Or this is how we imagine the world when we're raised on the Evening news.
Click to expand...

I think we're talking more of the sequels. I agree with you about the original movie though.
 
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