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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!

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M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
Karma Kramer said:
"they appear" , the context of the situation depends entirely on what happened before... it's pointless to suggest you know what went down until we get a more complete recording
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Luckily the one recorded by the NYPD should look better than outtakes from Cloverfield.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Luckily the one recorded by the NYPD should look better than outtakes from Cloverfield.
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what do you mean?

you keep making the same mistake of taking the first bit of information and concluding what happened based off it. I bet you argued for pages why the protestors deserved to be arrested on the bridge when it turned out to be a trap.
 
Z

Zabka

Member
Cops barricade protestors in enclosed space, protestors start freaking out because they can't leave, crowd pushes against police barricade, cops start beating, spraying and arresting people.

The main goal of the cops seems to be to engineer situations where instinctual actions of a large crowd will lead to confrontations and arrests. Same thing happened on the Brooklyn Bridge. Seems pointless and just adds fuel to the fire.
 
V

Volimar

Member
UltimaPooh said:
It's laughable that the cop was surrounded when there are cops all behind him.
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Agreed. But kind of wtflol at the people rushing to record the beatings. I guess no one wanted to miss it.
 
A

akira28

Member
Volimar said:
Agreed. But kind of wtflol at the people rushing to record the beatings. I guess no one wanted to miss it.
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Well there's not a lot you can do to a police officer in beatdown mode except hope that he's afraid of cameras.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
Karma Kramer said:
what do you mean?
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NYPD has officers with cameras at events like this to help deal with claims of misconduct or aggressive behavior people like to file.

akira28 said:
Well there's not a lot you can do to a police officer in beatdown mode except hope that he's afraid of cameras.
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How about not swarm him in the first place.
 
S

SolKane

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
The second one is where they appear to be swarming him and the officer is defensively using his baton. He didn't run after people to use it or use it near the head, simply to force them from trampling him.
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There are ways to use a baton defensively, but directly attacking people is not one of them. He may have felt threatened but indiscriminate swinging is not a defensive technique. If you watch the Fox video that was posted you can see he continues swinging even after people have turned their backs to him.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
NYPD has officers with cameras at events like this to help deal with claims of misconduct or aggressive behavior people like to file.
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I understand that, but the cloverfield part confuses me.
 
W

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
SolKane said:
There are ways to use a baton defensively, but directly attacking people is not one of them. He may have felt threatened but indiscriminate swinging is not a defensive technique.
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When a dozen police break down your door and all open fire on you, they consider that a defensive technique, so why not wildly swinging batons?
 
V

Volimar

Member
akira28 said:
Well there's not a lot you can do to a police officer in beatdown mode except hope that he's afraid of cameras.
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They're obviously not afraid. And why would they be? The city is pretty adept at ignoring the conduct of it officers. At best, the offenders get transferred or put on desk duty for a few months till it blows over. It really gives the police a black eye.
 
V

Volimar

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
How about not swarm him in the first place.
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In that video he clearly had the entrance to the building and all cops behind him. He wasn't really backed into anything.
 
E

Enron

Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
NYPD has officers with cameras at events like this to help deal with claims of misconduct or aggressive behavior people like to file.
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In the first videos that came out (bandana guy) of protestors getting hauled off, you can see several officers are holding videocameras.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Enron said:
In the first videos that came out (bandana guy) of protestors getting hauled off, you can see several officers are holding videocameras.
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Well I hope they release the entirety of the video... or someone does.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
Volimar said:
In that video he clearly had the entrance to the building and all cops behind him. He wasn't really backed into anything.
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Except if he retreats it signals to others that they can move forward.

Karma Kramer said:
I understand that, but the cloverfield part confuses me.
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The footage posted is a bit jumpy and all off the place.
 
F

FlyinJ

Douchebag. Yes, me.
Volimar said:
Not sure if this one has been posted. Cops beating protestors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpOMlDVaXzc
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Holy shit. I couldn't believe it in the end where they just drench the 5 girls that are just standing there with pepper spray.

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON IN NEW YORK.

Anyone who defends this behavior is a lizard. They weren't doing anything except crying after seeing the guy's face get pulverized by the police.
 
V

Volimar

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Except if he retreats it signals to others that they can move forward.
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Do you not see the fellow officers holding their batons like cross bars and pushing people away instead of beating them with them? There are more alternatives than either retreat or attack. They are supposed to be trained for this.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
Karma Kramer said:
Yeah, yet you seem fine concluding a shit ton of stuff...
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I didn't say it was unviewable, just that I'd prefer a better one eventually to watch.

SolKane said:
There are ways to use a baton defensively, but directly attacking people is not one of them. He may have felt threatened but indiscriminate swinging is not a defensive technique. If you watch the Fox video that was posted you can see he continues swinging even after people have turned their backs to him.
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No, they look like they're about to overrun him.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
I didn't say it was unviewable, just that I'd prefer a better one eventually to watch.


No, they look like they're about to overrun him.
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You thirst for the protestors blood. I get it.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
Volimar said:
Do you not see the fellow officers holding their batons like cross bars and pushing people away instead of beating them with them? There are more alternatives than either retreat or attack. They are supposed to be trained for this.
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Not at certain points, that cop is isolated.
 
E

Enron

Banned
Volimar said:
In that video he clearly had the entrance to the building and all cops behind him. He wasn't really backed into anything.
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All those cops behind him are actually behind the barricade. He and another officer are the only two not behind that barricade for whatever reason (they appear to actually be erecting the barricade) and are thus pinned between the barricade and a swarm of protesters that don't seem to want to back off him until he gets out the baton.

sxgc3m.jpg



106g67s.jpg
 
Z

Zabka

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
No, They need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use.
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Just like in the movie Society. Let the shunting begin!
 
S

SolKane

Member
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
No, they look like they're about to overrun him.
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Which would qualify him to act defensively, not to indiscriminately attack the protesters. As I said, he has a baton which can be used for crowd control purposes (which does not include striking, because not only is that inefficient but it is not defensive). Yet he literally swings at a group of people (unarmed) who have their backs turned! We pass the point of defensibility when we can see that such an act is anything but unwarranted aggression on part of the police officer.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
SolKane said:
Which would qualify him to act defensively, not to indiscriminately attack the protesters. As I said, he has a baton which can be used for crowd control purposes (which does not include striking, because not only is that inefficient but it is not defensive). Yet he literally swings at a group of people (unarmed) who have their backs turned! We pass the point of defensibility when we can say that such as an act is anything but unwarranted aggression on part of the police officer.
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Striking can be defensive.
 
A

akira28

Member
White shirts are the administrative officers and they may not be as well trained in crowd interaction as the blues are. Lawyers should look into that. If they're forcing untrained deskjobbers into crowd control because they're short on manpower, thats a liability.

It's no coincidence that the other guy spraying those 5 women was also a white shirt, he was a midlevel inspector, not a street cop, and I bet he wasn't up to date on his training.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Striking can be defensive.
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It can be, depends on who strikes first. Which isn't conclusive in the videos as of yet, so how about giving it a rest for an hour or so and then once more videos surface we can continue this
 
V

Volimar

Member
Enron said:
All those cops behind him are actually behind the barricade. He and another officer are the only two not behind that barricade for whatever reason (they appear to actually be erecting the barricade) and are thus pinned between the barricade and a swarm of protesters that don't seem to want to back off him until he gets out the baton.
Click to expand...


But then how do the cops get to him? Do they all leap the barriers? No? That's right, the barriers move. They open them to let people in and out. He wasn't trapped. He could have used his baton as a crossbar to push the protesters if they got too close but he didn't, he picked the couple of people closest to him and hit them. There's no evidence that they were armed, threatening, swarming or anything else. He just did something he should not have done.
 
V

Volimar

Member
Karma Kramer said:
Excellent video of DeFazio on Occupy Wall Street and the future of this country

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNNYWAZlCow&feature=player_embedded
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Awesome. My favorite part is when he says how people made fun by saying they don't have to get time off because they don't have jobs. That'sthejoke.jpg

I'd have loved to have heard Anthony Weiner's take on all this. If only he hadn't turned out to be such a horndog.

unomas said:
Care to defend this Manos? Maybe he was just joking?
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Let's not turn this into GAFfer vs GAFfer. Manos supports the police, I can understand that. The truth is that the videos are short snippets and people will interpret them differently.
 
V

Volimar

Member
empty vessel said:
The right to be in public? What are the cops doing there?
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Don't be naive. Even if we believe that 99% of the protesters are peaceful there are still loads that will vandalize and riot if not supervised.
 
E

Enron

Banned
Volimar said:
Don't be naive. Even if we believe that 99% of the protesters are peaceful there are still loads that will vandalize and riot if not supervised.
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And if that happens, the residents of NYC's first question - WHERE WERE THE COPS
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
Volimar said:
Don't be naive. Even if we believe that 99% of the protesters are peaceful there are still loads that will vandalize and riot if not supervised.
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I'm not aware of that at all. This isn't a professional sporting event. It's people exercising rights. It's people talking to other people in public. I'm not nearly as convinced as you that these activities require an inordinate amount of "supervision." But even if they do, the police are not the people to whom deference is owed. Citizens are.
 
M

Manos: The Hans of Fate

Banned
empty vessel said:
I'm not aware of that at all. This isn't a professional sporting event. It's people exercising rights. It's people talking to other people in public. I'm not nearly as convinced as you that these activities require an inordinate amount of "supervision." But even if they do, the police are not the people to whom deference is owed. Citizens are.
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It's people trying to swarm a cop, not exactly exercising ones right to non-violent protest.

unomas said:
Care to defend this Manos? Maybe he was just joking?
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Called humor and sarcasm.
 
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