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[Bad_Boy]

I dunno, it's a video obviously trying to expose the hypocrisy of the political leadership, and i think it does a pretty good job. And i'm not exactly hearing Clinton/Obama telling the people of Libya that if they break Libyan laws they should expect to be arrested.

Pretty much. Where are these political faces now that very similar things are happening to our own people?

 

[Menelaus]

Apparently I'm not as crazy as some people on here would like to believe...

 

[dave is ok]

The root of the 08 financial meltdown and the current sovereign debt crisis was lax lending standards.

This is like saying the root cause of the forest fire was a match, so we should make it harder to buy matches

 

[bounchfx]

menelaus.. not everyone has that much foresight.. or common sense. but good for that dude! that's great. for him.

thing is, he's still getting screwed, even if he has managed a way around it by lowering his standard of living more than he should need to.

edit: it's his line of thinking that makes people believe they shouldn't contribute or support the movement, just because they don't obviously feel the effects of what's happening around them & to them.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Apparently I'm not as crazy as some people on here would like to believe...

being debt free is kind of a moot point when you have a 90% scholarship.

 

[Quixzlizx]

The radio station I listen to in the mornings on the way to work (WBAB) sent someone out to OWS yesterday. He reported this morning that the most prevalent theme after the "We're the 99%" slogan was variations of the "Zionist bankers" conspiracy.

I know leftists are always saying that hating the state of Israel is not the same as being anti-Semitic, and that's fine. But the corollary to that is that replacing the "Jew bankers" scapegoat with "Zionist bankers" still makes you an anti-Semitic dipshit.

 

[Karma Kramer]

My biggest beef is the propaganda that births itself from this and how people from all over the world buy into it. Now we're seeing corporations and celebrities take advantage of this by throwing their names in the ring (free advertising?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGRXCgMdz9A&sns=fb

This video is absolute bullshit. When you break the law, you're going to get arrested. Convenient how it refuses to show the minutes that took place before the arrests were made.

These protests are doing more harm than good.

And I'm tired of how corporations alone are to blame for the cross selling of shitty mortgage backed securities. How do you think these ARMS were put out into the market? People bought them! They bought a mortgage they could not afford and when they were left on the streets, they cried and pointed to their banks.

Look, I'm as liberal as a gay man is fruity but this lack of common sense if utterly ridiculous. If people want change, they need to enact it from their own will. Sitting and screaming on a sidewalk is not going to change anything.

I really don't think you are as liberal as a gay man... if you were you would be contributing to a movement that could enact progressive liberal policy. Unless you have a better way of doing that?

 

[dave is ok]

Apparently I'm not as crazy as some people on here would like to believe...

This guy is an asshole.

If you had money in anything during 2008, it lost value. Housing, 401ks, pensions, stocks - etc.

He's acting like the only ones affected were the ones who made bad decisions. The whole point is that the bad decisions of the banks bankrupted people and made them lose their houses, then they were bailed out while private citizens were fucked.

 

[Karma Kramer]

The radio station I listen to in the mornings on the way to work (WBAB) sent someone out to OWS yesterday. He reported this morning that the most prevalent theme after the "We're the 99%" slogan was variations of the "Zionist bankers" conspiracy.

I know leftists are always saying that hating the state of Israel is not the same as being anti-Semitic, and that's fine. But the corollary to that is that replacing the "Jew bankers" scapegoat with "Zionist bankers" still makes you an anti-Semitic dipshit.

Right-wing propaganda? I would think, wealth distribution, loss of jobs, etc would be more commonly discussed then some Zionist bankers conspiracy.

 

[Littleberu]

This guy is an asshole.

If you had money in anything during 2008, it lost value. Housing, 401ks, pensions, stocks - etc.

He's acting like the only ones affected were the ones who made bad decisions. The whole point is that the bad decisions of the banks bankrupted people and made them lose their houses, then they were bailed out while private citizens were fucked.

Guess what, they bailed the bank so the rest of us of who weren't fucked could still go on with their daily lives.

I'm sure you knew that, though.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Apparently I'm not as crazy as some people on here would like to believe...

*http://i.imgur.com/s8WyL.jpg*

I really don't know why I'm taking the bait, but this picture is pretty straw-man. I don't think the OWS movement is about not being able to afford shit: it's about society being at the mercy of the financial markets, who are working very closely with the gov't. If the crash had played out even slightly differently, he might have been screwed out of an apartment and job and scholarships, or he might have had an even bigger place, you know what I mean? The free market is dependent on predictability and stability, not some murky, vaguely defined, arbitrary forces that are unknown to... 99% of the population.

Off-topic, why does he sound so proud of his situation? He's worse off than the generations before him. Shouldn't society be working towards improving all the time?

 

[Quixzlizx]

Right-wing propaganda? I would think, wealth distribution, loss of jobs, etc would be more commonly discussed then some Zionist bankers conspiracy.

I don't listen to political talk radio. This was just some rock jocks sending a guy out there for a laugh.

And the point is that people were blaming the wealth distribution and loss of jobs on the (Jewish) bankers.

 

[Azih]

n was variations of the "Zionist bankers" conspiracy.

What does that mean? Hating on Banks and believing the people running Banks have too much influence on politics could be seen as a 'variation of the Zionist banker conspiracy' but has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism at all.

 

[Naked Snake]

Apparently I'm not as crazy as some people on here would like to believe...

http://youtu.be/iN2LZ8N2uj0?t=4m32s

Just sayin'

 

[dave is ok]

Guess what, they bailed the bank so the rest of us of who weren't fucked could still go on with their daily lives.

I'm sure you knew that, though.

Their daily lives in the house they no longer own with the job they no longer have.

Thank god we saved those banks!

 

[Karma Kramer]

I don't listen to political talk radio. This was just some rock jocks sending a guy out there for a laugh.

And the point is that people were blaming the wealth distribution and loss of jobs on the (Jewish) bankers.

Well sad if its that common. I wish the media would play a stronger role in researching obvious problems and corruption... like you know how there are some occupy people who are a bit insane and they spew a bunch of nonsense, then there are more educated occupy people who bring up valid points... I'd be nice if the media knew or therefore learned about those valid points and reported on that instead of what some clown ranted about on a street corner.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

What does that mean? Hating on Banks and believing the people running Banks have too much influence on politics could be seen as a 'variation of the Zionist banker conspiracy' but has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism at all.

With Zionists it doesn't, it does have to do with ramblings about "Jewish Bankers or Jews Controling the Banks"

Hell google "Jewish Bankers"

A lot of these claims are essentially a variation of the same thing, they just delete Jews and only say Bankers.

 

[Quixzlizx]

What does that mean? Hating on Banks and believing the people running Banks have too much influence on politics could be seen as a 'variation of the Zionist banker conspiracy' but has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism at all.

Well, since people in this thread are being dense, it's the transitive "Banks are the problem/Jews run the banks."

It shouldn't have anything to do with religion.

 

[BobTheFork]

Are you suggesting that the only people who are debt free are those that received two scholarships?Are we playing the blame game again?

How can someone be blamed for being debt free?

 

[Azih]

being debt free is kind of a moot point when you have a 90% scholarship.

Yeah and the nature of scholarships is that very few students get them.


Look the point that a lot of people are carrying dumb debt is perfectly valid. Buying stupid shit on credit cards is no one's fault but the buyers (though I would point out that society encourages this kind of crazy behavior as the economy has grown dependent on this insane behaviour. Remember Bush's exhortation to the American people wasn't "We must sacrifice" but "Keep Shopping!").

That does not detract *at all* from the fact though that for most people getting a decent education is absurdly expensive, that any sort of a medical emergency can destroy a families finances even if they have insurance and are careful with their budget etc.

 

[Littleberu]

Well sad if its that common. I wish the media would play a stronger role in researching obvious problems and corruption... like you know how there are some occupy people who are a bit insane and they spew a bunch of nonsense, then there are more educated occupy people who bring up valid points... I'd be nice if the media knew or therefore learned about those valid points and reported on that instead of what some clown ranted about on a street corner.

They're louder than your "educated occupy people who bring up valid points", anyway.

 

[Azih]

A lot of these claims are essentially a variation of the same thing, they just delete Jews and only say Bankers.

And that's what makes the claims NOT ANTI-SEMETIC AT ALL.

it's the transitive "Banks are the problem/Jews run the banks"

The second point is bullshit and should be shouted down but the first point is a valid point of view that needs to be expressed and should not be seen as anti-Semitic at all.

 

[dave is ok]

Narrow view.

They bought the home they could not afford! That's what started this. There was a demand for a product so banks were churning them out. The banks made money. The people lost the home they could not afford to begin with. Why is that solely the bank's fault again?

We could have paid off the mortgage of every subprime loan recipient in the country for much less than what the bailouts cost. You're the one being narrow. Poor people can't create trillion dollar deficits.

Also, it wasn't just irresponsible people or people who should have never been given loans in the first place that lost their homes. You might have noticed that unemployed jumped up significantly. You can't pay your mortgage when you no longer have a job.

 

[Karma Kramer]

They're louder than your "educated occupy people who bring up valid points", anyway.

What do you mean? Shouting > Logic?

 

[Karma Kramer]

No. Because banks are not in the business of solely lending out ARMS.

What kind of political/financial reform do you favor? Certainly you can agree with some of these problems... http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1

 

[Quixzlizx]

And that's what makes the claims NOT ANTI-SEMETIC AT ALL.

The second point is bullshit and should be shouted down but the first point is a valid point of view that needs to be expressed and should not be seen as anti-Semitic at all.

Well, duh. If they aren't brought up, then it isn't. But it was brought up, so it is.

 

[Azih]

Why is that solely the bank's fault again?

That people bought houses they couldn't afford was their fault (though it was encouraged by financial advisors that people rely on).

That the economy was running on billions and billions of dollars of bad debt that were packaged up in such a way that they could be rated 'safe' and that rating was used to then spread the bad debt around to infect almost everything was completely the fault of the Banks and other financial institutions.

 

[OG Kush]

I really hope this turns into a revolution for the USA. would so badass and what it deserves.

 

[Azih]

Well, duh. If they aren't brought up, then it isn't. But it was brought up, so it is.

That's the question I've got from what the radio announcer was saying. If he was making the point that just hating on banks was a variant of the Zionist banker theory then that is bullshit. And if he wasn't then I'd like to know how many people were just hating on banks and how many were making the anti-semitic second step. I find it very easy to believe that hating on banks was the second most common sentiment at OWS but I call shenanigans on saying that hating on Zionest bankers was the second most common sentiment.

Edit: I mean we can't answer that question because I don' think the radio host ran a comprehensive poll or anything like that. I'd just like to draw a very clear line between solely hating on banks and anti-Semitic sentiment.

 

[BotoxAgent]

edit: it's his line of thinking that makes people believe they shouldn't contribute or support the movement, just because they don't obviously feel the effects of what's happening around them & to them.

I just graduated from a great expensive school and immediately got a job, living comfortably in NY. I am not in debt. And my parents are well-off. But I do acknowledge that the system is still fucked up and has screwed over a lot of people. I know close friends who work just as hard as I do but are struggling because their greedy ass boss, jobs were shipped overseas or from downsizing, or got into a freak accident and can't work and need govt. assistance. How can some of these fools and critics be so callous and call them lazy?

 

[dave is ok]

IMO? You have to reform the housing market. Increase regulation. Remove Mae and Mac. When you fix the housing market, you create jobs. More jobs see more groth. When that growth arrives, revert back to 90s era taxation.

You realize that it wasn't the housing market that caused the crash? It was the unregulated derivatives/securities market.

And Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac played less of a role than other mortgage lenders.

 

[sangreal]

This guy is an asshole.

If you had money in anything during 2008, it lost value. Housing, 401ks, pensions, stocks - etc.

Only if you withdrew the money in 2008

 

[dave is ok]

Increase regulation across the board, yes. Again securities industry was selling bad mortgages that people were buying!

Exactly. And when they ran out of them the investment side of the bank would instruct the lending side of the bank to give more mortgages to poor people because they were making money hand over fist off of them.

The homeowners were swindled, I work for a real estate attorney and I saw the shit the banks were saying to these people to get the deal done.

If the banks are giving loans out to bad eggs, the fault still lies with the bank

 

[Karma Kramer]

You realize that it wasn't the housing market that caused the crash? It was the unregulated securities market.

And Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac played less of a role than other mortgage lenders.

Here's more on that:

Reports Reject Claim That Fannie And Freddie Were Root Cause Of Financial Crisis

David Min: Fannie And Freddie "Did Not Buy Enough" High-Risk Mortgage-Backed Securities "To Be Blamed For The Mortgage Crisis." In a report about the causes of the housing crisis, David Min, the Associate Director for Financial Markets Policy at the Center for American Progress, wrote that while "Fannie and Freddie were responsible for some actual high-risk loans, primarily through their purchases of high-risk private-label securities for their investment portfolio as well as through purchases of actual high-risk loans for their core securitization business," the "actual high-risk activity by Fannie and Freddie was neither sufficient in volume nor did it come at the right time to persuasively argue that the two mortgage finance giants drove the surge in actual high-risk lending we saw in the 2000s." Min also wrote that Fannie and Freddie "did not buy enough of [high-risk mortgage-backed securities] to be blamed for the mortgage crisis."

http://mediamatters.org/research/201107200034

 

[Littleberu]

What do you mean? Shouting > Logic?

I mean that it's easier to discredit the operation when all you hear on TV are poor arguments and invalid propositions made by those loudmouths.

Especially here, in Canada.

 

[bangai-o]

im working my butt off for minimum wage and trying to graduate. So i am too busy to go out and occupy anything. Where can I help send moneys to pay their lunch and dinner.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I really hope this turns into a revolution for the USA. would so badass and what it deserves.

LOL. Yeah, like that's going to happen and/or is somehow needed.

 

[Azih]

Increase regulation across the board, yes.

Agreed, also it's exactly what OWS is pushing for much more effectively than anything else over the past three years.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Agreed, also it's exactly what OWS is pushing for much more effectively than anything else over the past three years.

No they aren't. They aren't effectively pushing for anything.

 

[Karma Kramer]

LOL. Yeah, like that's going to happen and/or is somehow needed.

Oh, fancy new avatar... welcome back

 

[Azih]

No they aren't. They aren't effectively pushing for anything.

Considering the amount of movement there's been in Washington over the OWS movement, and the fact that the media is actually starting to report on the legitimate points that the movement is making. Hell yes they are.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Considering the amount of movement there's been in Washington over the OWS movement, and the fact that the media is actually starting to report on the legitimate points that the movement is making. Hell yes they are.

Don't bother responding to his "contribution" in this thread. He's just looking for a fight. I mean just look at his new avatar!

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Considering the amount of movement there's been in Washington over the OWS movement, and the fact that the media is actually starting to report on the legitimate points that the movement is making. Hell yes they are.

Except they haven't been able to report on any real message or goal, just a bunch of loud rambling, and extremely scatter shot diatribes.

Don't bother responding to his "contribution" in this thread. He's just looking for a fight. I mean just look at his new avatar!

You don't like Conan The Barbarian?

 

[Karma Kramer]

You don't like Conan The Barbarian?

Not what I was implying... Manos The Barbarian

 

[ToxicAdam]

You realize that it wasn't the housing market that caused the crash? It was the unregulated derivatives/securities market.

And Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac played less of a role than other mortgage lenders.

Just because the overall percentage of F&F's involvement was dwarfed by the banking industry as a whole, doesn't mean they didn't play a significant part. Investors (and competitors) saw them as a federally-insured entity, which helped drive up their stock price as they began to make money from these riskier derivatives. Others jumped 'all-in' because they are competing for the same shareholders.

Then as banks began to slow up on buying up these bundles in late 2007, F&F kept plugging along. Which is why we are STILL bailing them out to this day, while the other entities have already repaid all their TARP money.

 

[travisbickle]

Apparently I'm not as crazy as some people on here would like to believe...

He's in as much denial as Manos who doesn't believe he is contributing to the trillion dollar student debt with his $250,000 loan.

 

[dave is ok]

Then as banks began to slow up on buying up these bundles in late 2007, F&F kept plugging along. Which is why we are STILL bailing them out to this day, while the other entities have already repaid all their TARP money.

TARP money wasn't the only money given out. I hate the "banks already repaid us" argument.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

He's in as much denial as Manos who doesn't believe he is contributing to the trillion dollar student debt with his $250,000 loan.

Yeah, the one that's being paid back, sure...travis...sure.

Not what I was implying... Manos The Barbarian

You didn't answer the question though, do you like Conan The Barbarian or not?

 

[Azih]

Except they haven't been able to report on any real message or goal,

The drive towards greater regulation of the financial industry is incredibly real and incredibly necessary.

 

[alstein]

I really hope this turns into a revolution for the USA. would so badass and what it deserves.

You do know if the US had a full-scale revolution, we'd have mass starvation in the third world (there goes the majority of the world's food supply), and a global depression.