Support NeoGAF

[Marleyman]

That was disgusting to watch.

 

[NullPointer]

Fucking pig:

http://gawker.com/5849870/cops-run-over-a-protesters-leg-punch-a-guy-at-occupy-wall-street

 

[Evlar]

He and his buddies were threatening legal action against banks whom did not lend to high-risk, lower income earners/entities. The fear of being touted as "racist" (as many such lower income earners were minorities) after the new CRA changes in the mid-1990s highly accelerated banks and financial firms to enter the sub-prime mortgage sectors.

"Legal action"? He's a Congressman. Does that mean he would try to pass legislation (which, again, he's in the minority through the vast bulk of the inflation of the mortgage bubble)? Does it mean he would sue? Do you have any references for these credible threat of suits, and how badly they would harm the bottom line of investment banks et al? And who the hell are his "buddies"? His drinking buddies?

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Well. The protests are gaining strength, but there may be some kind of crackdown on it coming.

Any idea what happens then?

it becomes violent, the fate of the nation hangs on a thread

 

[dave is ok]

Something Wicked finally outed himself as an actual crazy person

 

[AndyD]

I am in Montreal this week, and tomorrow Occupy Montreal starts. And the plaza is about a block away from my hotel. I'll stop by and try to take some pictures and see what's going on.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

We'll see. I'm torn about this whole thing because the really angry side of me wants to see a major violent response to shit like this. The rational side of me doesn't as it won't really help either side in the end.
this shit just sucks.

 

[empty vessel]

100% false, and no serious person would ever claim that "no serious person who has studied it believes it does."

No, it's true. Subprime lending is not the lending that the CRA authorized:

The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) encourages banks to expand mortgage lending in the communities in which they have branch offices, subject to maintaining overall levels of financial safety and soundness. Some have argued that this regulation forced banks to lower their credit standards and engage in riskier mortgage products in order to extend credit to lower-income individuals, who perhaps should not have received such loans. However, data provided by the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act (HMDA) reveal that loans covered by the CRA accounted for only a fraction of mortgage lending to lower-income borrowers and neighborhoods. This is especially true of higher-priced, or subprime, mortgages. CRA assessment-area lending accounted for only nine percent of higher-priced loans to lower-income borrowers and neighborhoods, while independent mortgage companies accounted for the majority. Further, the subprime share of assessment-area loans made to lower-income borrowers and lower-income neighborhoods was lower than the subprime share for all loans made between 2004 and 2006. ...

There are many causes to the collapse of the housing market and the recent financial turmoil, but the contribution of the CRA appears marginal. While banks did engage in subprime lending in their assessment areas, they did so at a lower rate than the market in general and accounted for only a small fraction of subprime loans to lower-income borrowers and lower-income neighborhoods. The data suggest that far from being forced into risky corners of the market, the institutions under the scrutiny of the CRA were crowded out by unregulated lenders.​

http://www.jchs.harvard.edu/publications/governmentprograms/n08-2_park.pdf

See also:

Not surprisingly given the higher degree of supervision, loans made under the CRA program were made in a more responsible way than other subprime loans. CRA loans carried lower rates than other subprime loans and were less likely to end up securitized into the mortgage-backed securities that have caused so many losses, according to a recent study by the law firm Traiger & Hinckley (PDF file here).​

http://www.businessweek.com/investi...t_had_nothing_to_do_with_subprime_crisis.html

See also: http://www.newamerica.net/blog/asset-building/2008/its-still-not-cra-7222

A) It wasn't securities fraud, as most of such mortgages did not come from thin-air and were in fact, very real. The government knew what was going on and had many years to legislate against such practices- which some did try, but Team Barney Frank raised too much hell to make such legislation politically viable.

B) Government officials are not deeply investigating or putting anyone on trial, since they themselves were heavily involved in the whole fiasco as well.

I agree with you that lack of government regulation and oversight of what Wall Street was doing was a critical failure. I also agree with you that Democrats (who traditionally received more money from Wall Street than Republicans) have a lot of responsibility for that. (But the CRA isn't remotely a part of that narrative.)

 

[Enron]

Woodruff Park already being shit up - turning into a mudbowl

 

[Uncompromisable]

I am in Montreal this week, and tomorrow Occupy Montreal starts. And the plaza is about a block away from my hotel. I'll stop by and try to take some pictures and see what's going on.

What a joke. It's the most socialist place in north america (I live here). We have the cheapest high quality education (5k for a master's degree). We have the cheap rent, liberal views, we basically don't arrest people for pot anymore. We have free health care. Provocateurs hooray.

 

[Dude Abides]

And both the MBTA and MTA have unions associated with them, hence I said "agencies/unions" when referring to each. Now, do you want to comment on the level of corruption within both agencies and unions, or you do want to continue in attempting and failing at the "gotcha semantics game?"

It's not "gotcha semantics" to point out that an employer is not the same thing as the union representing its employees and your (failed) attempt to conflate the two is utterly stupid. What does a corrupt manager at the MTA have to do with the TWU Local 100? Is it just a right-winger involuntary reflex to type "union" whenever he types the word "corruption"?

 

[bjb]

it becomes violent, the fate of the nation hangs on a thread

Fortunately the National agenda doesn't reside on the shoulders of unemployed people camping in parks.

 

[Wazzim]

When will NAVO start to bomb NYPD offices to protect the NY protesters?

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

sad attempt at trolling apparently

you know what's really inconveniencing? losing a house. losing millions of houses. losing everything. but hey, fuck, these dirty rotten protestors... causin a mess with their tents! argh!

you're really, really grasping at what to belittle about this

 

[akira28]

When will NAVO start to bomb NYPD offices to protect the NY protesters?

Don't even kid.

 

[Chichikov]

Here's what I'm trying to say.

When you have to syndicate a big loan, particularly something that is not investment grade, in a banking system where there's restrictions on interstate banking, your options in potential partners are extremely limited and you will have to pay higher interest rates and covenant premiums.

The size of corporations have become so large that project financing is too big for the balance sheets of regional banks to absorb.

So how come we had more robust growth with these limitations in place?

Also, does that mean that you're okay with re-instating the separation of investment and commercial banks?
In my mind, that's the most important provision of Glass Steagall.

 

[Slavik81]

Risk was "miscalculated"? Somebody made some bad assumptions? Junk was rated AAA. A metric shit ton of junk was rated AAA. Ratings agencies were paid to rate junk as AAA. According to the Senate subcommittee:



http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/Financial_Crisis/FinancialCrisisReport.pdf (PDF)

All of this is a polite way of saying organized fraud and collusion (as between financial institutions and credit ratings agencies and even including the government--see #8). The credit ratings agencies were not selling the service of risk assessment. They were selling AAA ratings. Why? Because it was much more lucrative to sell AAA ratings than to sell a credible risk assessment service. And if you think the entities seeking these ratings also did not understand that they were buying AAA ratings instead of buying the service of risk assessment, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Unrelated: The man who blocked John Lewis speaks.

You posted a giant quote that agreed with my post and yet somehow think my statements were inaccurate?

 

[Something Wicked]

http://www.jchs.harvard.edu/publicat...n08-2_park.pdf

That study is a non-concrete distinction between the CRA enforced loans and "sub-prime CRA enforced loans." Not to mention it's unsurprisingly focusing mainly on a narrow period (2004-2006), when the Wall Street mortgaged-back securities markets had already taken off. However, the 1990s amendments to the CRA were the initial triggers to the bubble. Without such triggers, we would not have had the bubble of the degree that occurred.

Something Wicked finally outed himself as an actual crazy person

Or perhaps I just disagree with the rhetoric and solutions of those currently protesting and the populist hivemind entrenched in this thread?

Here's the reality: executives of Wall Street firms and most mortgage lenders are not going on trial. Barney Frank is not going on trial. Many people who defaulted on their loans are not going on trial. We should take it as a lesson- a very costly lesson- that pumping the real estate markets is not a viable, long-term method of increasing economic growth. Also, owning a home is not a basic, fundamental human right. Too many people were involved at abstract and varying degrees for significant legal action to ever occur.

Now, you simply want revenge? Fair enough, but protesting for even seemingly beneficial, but unrealistic goals like re-enacting Glass-Steagall are not going to provide such desired revenge. I've already stated where you can hit Wall Street hard- and those such measures would have significant benefits to the broader economy (by reducing market volatility and decreasing commodity prices) and encourage companies to increase hiring.

Do you I expect the general populous of the Occupy Movement to understand and begin calling for such solutions? No, unfortunately, I believe they are not intelligent nor educated enough to comprehend what I am suggesting they do. Therefore, this protesting is a futile cause and blindly supporting it will only lead to further embarrassment in the near future.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Welp, tomorrow I start occupying. If the internet is stable (there is a library down the street anyway) I'll be writing a blog about my experience and other tidbits.

 

[gutter_trash]

I am in Montreal this week, and tomorrow Occupy Montreal starts. And the plaza is about a block away from my hotel. I'll stop by and try to take some pictures and see what's going on.

Canadian Banks are the best regulated in the world,
no repeal of Glass-Seagall crap here or shit like that

the Montreal one won't be like Wall-Street; it will end up being Black Blocked

 

[jamesinclair]

I said it two weeks ago.

!0,000 people should be out there protesting NYPD, their extreme money wasting, their corruption and their misuse of power.

 

[Wazzim]

Welp, tomorrow I start occupying. If the internet is stable (there is a library down the street anyway) I'll be writing a blog about my experience and other tidbits.

Be sure to link it, I'd love to read about your experience.


In other news: 3600 people will be in Amsterdam and about 1300 in The Hague to start the occupy movement in the Netherlands (tomorrow, just like all other countries in the world). I honestly don't think that many will really come in the beginning but we'll see, the current cabinet is really shitty so there is potential.

 

[Enron]

you know what's really inconveniencing? losing a house. losing millions of houses. losing everything. but hey, fuck, these dirty rotten protestors... causin a mess with their tents! argh!

you're really, really grasping at what to belittle about this

Not when they can actually go and, you know, protest in front of the institutions they have a grievance against. Instead of fucking up a park that someone else will have to pay to clean to scrub away the stench of shit and piss.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Canadian Banks are the best regulated in the world,
no repeal of Glass-Seagall crap here or shit like that

the Montreal one won't be like Wall-Street; it will end up being Black Blocked

from what I understand Canada is a relative paradise, as is Holland (in regards to the issues of the Occupy movement), is it for solidarity or are there issues i am clearly ignorant of?

 

[NathanMcMahon]

Not when they can actually go and, you know, protest in front of the institutions they have a grievance against. Instead of fucking up a park that someone else will have to pay to clean to scrub away the stench of shit and piss.

Thank god you aren't going to pay for it then.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Not when they can actually go and, you know, protest in front of the institutions they have a grievance against. Instead of fucking up a park that someone else will have to pay to clean to scrub away the stench of shit and piss.

Park mess > Financial mess?

 

[richiek]

Not when they can actually go and, you know, protest in front of the institutions they have a grievance against. Instead of fucking up a park that someone else will have to pay to clean to scrub away the stench of shit and piss.

I stopped by Zuccotti Park last week. Aside from the bags of uncollected garbage, there was no "stench of shit and piss."

 

[Keru_Shiri]

I stopped by Zuccotti Park last week. Aside from the bags of uncollected garbage, there was no "stench of shit and piss."

Enron must have been talking about the stench of poverty from the undeserving masses. (I'm just playin')

 

[Karma Kramer]

I stopped by Zuccotti Park last week. Aside from the bags of uncollected garbage, there was no "stench of shit and piss."

Enron is just grasping at whatever straws he can manage. Funny how appalled he was with the incident at the Museum, but a protestor getting his leg run over doesn't even get a passive comment of disapproval.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Not when they can actually go and, you know, protest in front of the institutions they have a grievance against. Instead of fucking up a park that someone else will have to pay to clean to scrub away the stench of shit and piss.

is this the best you have? like i said before, worthless and pathetic grasp at whatever means of delegitimation you can spout

 

[NathanMcMahon]

is this the best you have? like i said before, worthless and pathetic grasp at whatever means of delegitimation you can spout

You don't need to ask the question because he's obvious with his pathetic answer. It is the best he has.

 

[Something Wicked]

I stopped by Zuccotti Park last week. Aside from the bags of uncollected garbage, there was no "stench of shit and piss."

Well, I can imagine distinguishing between the smell of hippies and hipsters' shit and piss from the normal smell of shit and piss of the streets of Manhattan can be quite difficult.

 

[akira28]

Enron = trolling this issue.

It's something of a state secret.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

Well, I can imagine distinguishing between the smell of hippies and hipsters' shit and piss from the normal smell of shit and piss of the streets of Manhattan can be quite difficult.

Never really shit, and occasionally only piss. That smell's actually more relegated to the subway.

 

[reggieandTFE]

is this the best you have? like i said before, worthless and pathetic grasp at whatever means of delegitimation you can spout

He's probably one of the dimmest people on the board. Back in that oil industry thread he admitted to working for Halliburton, a company that profits off of taxpayer largess like none other, but he still hates the government.

 

[Karma Kramer]

He's probably one of the dimmest people on the board. Back in that oil industry thread he admitted to working for Halliburton, a company that profits off of taxpayer largess like none other, but he still hates the government.

lol are you serious?

 

[reggieandTFE]

That study is a non-concrete distinction between the CRA enforced loans and "sub-prime CRA enforced loans." Not to mention it's unsurprisingly focusing mainly on a narrow period (2004-2006), when the Wall Street mortgaged-back securities markets had already taken off. However, the 1990s amendments to the CRA were the initial triggers to the bubble. Without such triggers, we would not have had the bubble of the degree that occurred.




Or perhaps I just disagree with the rhetoric and solutions of those currently protesting and the populist hivemind entrenched in this thread?

Here's the reality: executives of Wall Street firms and most mortgage lenders are not going on trial. Barney Frank is not going on trial. Many people who defaulted on their loans are not going on trial. We should take it as a lesson- a very costly lesson- that pumping the real estate markets is not a viable, long-term method of increasing economic growth. Also, owning a home is not a basic, fundamental human right. Too many people were involved at abstract and varying degrees for significant legal action to ever occur.

Now, you simply want revenge? Fair enough, but protesting for even seemingly beneficial, but unrealistic goals like re-enacting Glass-Steagall are not going to provide such desired revenge. I've already stated where you can hit Wall Street hard- and those such measures would have significant benefits to the broader economy (by reducing market volatility and decreasing commodity prices) and encourage companies to increase hiring.

Do you I expect the general populous of the Occupy Movement to understand and begin calling for such solutions? No, unfortunately, I believe they are not intelligent nor educated enough to comprehend what I am suggesting they do. Therefore, this protesting is a futile cause and blindly supporting it will only lead to further embarrassment in the near future.

What is with the Wall Street apologists collective hard-ons for blaming Barney Frank wrecking the US economy? A lot of democrats enabled the asshole executives that perpetrated the financial crisis. ALL of the republicans enabled the asshole executives that perpetrated the financial crisis. Meanwhile, all of the blame is placed at one guy's feet. Is it because he's Jewish, gay and talks with a lisp?

 

[ezrarh]

He's probably one of the dimmest people on the board. Back in that oil industry thread he admitted to working for Halliburton, a company that profits off of taxpayer largess like none other, but he still hates the government.

No fucking way. Sometimes I feel like all the wall street apologists out on the internet are getting paid by some marketing firm hired by these financial institutions.

 

[NathanMcMahon]

He's probably one of the dimmest people on the board. Back in that oil industry thread he admitted to working for Halliburton, a company that profits off of taxpayer largess like none other, but he still hates the government.

Haha. What a shit job he must have. Good job being part of a horrible outfit that is responsible for killing American troops due to their shit-tastic safety standards and complete lack of competence. As a former Marine I can't thank you enough.

edit:

Apparently he doesn't work for Halliburton so sorry for berating you because of it. I'll leave my comments here so people have reference.

 

[Karma Kramer]

No fucking way. Sometimes I feel like all the wall street apologists out on the internet are getting paid by some marketing firm hired by these financial institutions.

I have thought about this as well... I would not be surprised if PR work was done via internet forums.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

I have thought about this as well... I would not be surprised if PR work was done via internet forums.

If they can hire people to shill for Beyblades on GAF, then I imagine anything is possible, haha.

 

[Timedog]

He's probably one of the dimmest people on the board. Back in that oil industry thread he admitted to working for Halliburton, a company that profits off of taxpayer largess like none other, but he still hates the government.

That explains so much.

 

[jamesinclair]

I stopped by Zuccotti Park last week. Aside from the bags of uncollected garbage, there was no "stench of shit and piss."

Its hilarious how so many people are repeating the same BS from the hippy movement.

"Take a shower!"

Yeah, most of these protesters actually are showering every day. And certainly nobody is taking a dump on the sidewalk.

Have these people never been to a city....? Fast food restaurants, hotels, fire houses etc etc, there are hundreds of public restrooms...

And many can go home whenever they want, shower, poo, and come back later.

 

[FlyinJ]

Fire houses' bathrooms are open to the public?

I had no idea...

 

[Chichikov]

I have thought about this as well... I would not be surprised if PR work was done via internet forums.

At least back home, commenting on pretty much all major news sites is dominated by paid PR people.
It's ridiculous.

 

[Azih]

from what I understand Canada is a relative paradise, as is Holland (in regards to the issues of the Occupy movement), is it for solidarity or are there issues i am clearly ignorant of?

Income inequality is rising pretty fast in Canada.

 

[cooljeanius]

My Dad was in DC for the week, so I took him by McPherson Square today... the number of tents there is growing.

 

[Enron]

He's probably one of the dimmest people on the board. Back in that oil industry thread he admitted to working for Halliburton, a company that profits off of taxpayer largess like none other, but he still hates the government.

Uhm, what?

I don't work for Halliburton. I work on 401ks. More specifically, the systems that run 401ks. The company I work for appears on some of you euro's favorite soccer team's jerseys.

Who's the dim bulb now?

You lot can't even insult properly. If you want to call names, please do so in a PM.


For some reason posters in this thread sure do like to talk about ME a lot. I don't know why.

Edit: To be fair, it was my FATHER that worked for Halliburton. He was an enhanced oil recovery engineer - the dude that figures out how to get the stuff out of the ground. Still, as preoccupied as some of you are with me it seems, you'd think you could at least get your story straight!

 

[NathanMcMahon]

Uhm, what?

I don't work for Halliburton. I work on 401ks. More specifically, the systems that run 401ks. The company I work for appears on some of you euro's favorite soccer team's jerseys.

Who's the dim bulb now?


For some reason posters in this thread sure do like to talk about ME a lot. I don't know why.

I'm sure you aren't so stupid as to understand why your inflammatory rhetoric is so despised and therefore people in turn liking to talk about you negatively.

 

[Enron]

I'm sure you aren't so stupid as to understand why your inflammatory rhetoric is so despised and therefore people liking to talk about you negatively.

Got a problem? PM me please.