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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!

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Bulbo Urethral Baggins said:
Say again? You're saying someone who makes $500,000 in income only pays less than 3% of that in taxes?


I'm saying I know for a fact footballers in the UK were exposed as paying less than 10% of their monthly income in taxes. Outside of a monthly income nearly all of the top 1% have assets, savings, trust funds etc. In the footballers case I would not be surprised if it was found out that from all of the income they received, and after tax rebates, that the tax was only 3% of it.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
akira28 said:
53%rs using fake pics? Check the date on this one.
I remember that image macro that would let you put text on any blank surface, plus photoshop has been used for this since forever.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6214/6245569857_e8492bc1cd.jpg[IMG]

[url]http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/15/1026620/-We-Are-the-53-is-Using-Fake-Images?via=siderec[/url]


haha plus the pidgin english on this fake picture is borderline racist.
[url]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt1ewtKs4X1r4q8eoo1_500.jpg[/url]

the original
[url]http://www.abujacity.com/.a/6a00d8345c5c1b69e20133f49afbf6970b-800wi[/url][/QUOTE]
At this point most of these are probably being created to troll people because it's fun to watch the whining. And so many are falling for it.

But there really are people who have worked hard to pull themselves out of desperate situations and make their own lives better that might take offense to some of the rhetoric flying around in this movement. It is disappointing to see them marginalized because their personal sacrifices don't fit the mold of the protest.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
travisbickle said:
I'm saying I know for a fact footballers in the UK were exposed as paying less than 10% of their monthly income in taxes. Outside of a monthly income nearly all of the top 1% have assets, savings, trust funds etc. In the footballers case I would not be surprised if it was found out that from all of the income they received, and after tax rebates, that the tax was only 3% of it.
For some weird reason people are ok with athletes and celebrities making millions. They just don't like it when corporate executives and investors make millions. Still trying to figure that out.
 

Jenga

Banned
so has the movement made any demands yet

like "tax the rich!" or "tougher bank law reform", "increased prosecution and jail time for financial fraud"

or is it still just a hodgepodge of random demands?

ReBurn said:
For some weird reason people are ok with athletes and celebrities making millions. They just don't like it when corporate executives and investors make millions. Still trying to figure that out.
because unless the CEO is someone with a strong image like Jobs, nobody likes generic white guy in a suit
 
ReBurn said:
For some weird reason people are ok with athletes and celebrities making millions. They just don't like it when corporate executives and investors make millions. Still trying to figure that out.

sport players can't really do much to affect global economies in any systematic way, they can do industry specific things to enrich themselves i'm sure, but not in a way to crash global economies maliciously and then get rewarded for it. also sport players don't really embed themselves into government to the point where we're going to war on the whims of sports clubs.
 

effzee

Member
Was out to a dinner last night with friends. One of my wife's friends husband works in finance for some hedge fund company on Wall St.

I wasn't part of the conversation (I was on the otherside of the table) but I was shocked to hear some of the comments :

"If they didn't want to make 30-50k they should have worked harder and went into finance!"

"If they wanted to make more money why did they become teachers?"

"They are just jealous hippies who should be trying to get a job!"

"I work 7 days a week for 100+ hours and they are trying to protest me?"

"I work hard and I don't even know where my 7 figure salary goes...yeah ok so its nice to make that much but you don't really see it!"

"More government regulation is going to ruin us, the government just wants to make money off of us and control us!"

It was a friend's bday dinner and I didn't want to get involved but oh god I was boiling up inside. I can't believe people live in such a bubble and would take the protests as a personal attack on single individuals.
 
I am so sick of lower income classes supporting right wing politics. I don't understand why the poor are not pouring support into this movement. I hope that this movement gels into a cohesive voice speaking louder than the tea party lunatics, while moving the country away from complete oligarchy.
 
ReBurn said:
For some weird reason people are ok with athletes and celebrities making millions. They just don't like it when corporate executives and investors make millions. Still trying to figure that out.
Do athletes and celebrities typically defraud investors and lay people off to ensure they keep making their millions?
 

Jenga

Banned
Keru_Shiri said:
Do athletes and celebrities typically defraud investors and lay people off to ensure they keep making their millions?
do all CEOs and investors typically commit financial fraud?
 
Baggins, I was looking at the income in GBP£ and making assumptions about the assets of a person who earns approx. $1mill.

My personal beef is with how much the 99% pay in tax as a percentage of their income, not how little the rich pay.
 

Jangocube

Banned
This is quite amazing what this movement is turning in to.

How many people were at the original protest? Because they have to feel pretty great about how things are going.
 
If spinning half-truths and lying by omission to investors constituted as fraud, then we should lock up ever man and woman working in the investors relations department for every corporation in the world.
 

Enron

Banned
Hasphat'sAnts said:
If spinning half-truths and lying by omission to investors constituted as fraud, then we should lock up ever man and woman working in the investors relations department for every corporation in the world.

And nearly 100% of this thread would be ok with that.
 

ksan

Member
Hasphat'sAnts said:
If spinning half-truths and lying by omission to investors constituted as fraud, then we should lock up ever man and woman working in the investors relations department for every corporation in the world.
Can't we lock up all gaming journalists together with them too?
 
travisbickle said:
Baggins, I was looking at the income in GBP£ and making assumptions about the assets of a person who earns approx. $1mill.

My personal beef is with how much the 99% pay in tax as a percentage of their income, not how little the rich pay.
Do you think the 99% should pay less?
 
Hasphat'sAnts said:
If spinning half-truths and lying by omission to investors constituted as fraud, then we should lock up ever man and woman working in the investors relations department for every corporation in the world.

Er, it does constitute fraud. Are you suggesting it should be okay to intentionally mislead investors?
 
effzee said:
"I work hard and I don't even know where my 7 figure salary goes...yeah ok so its nice to make that much but you don't really see it!"

Damn right. As far as I can tell the whole of society is broken until it can be organised to give this one guy an 8 figure salary at least.
 

Jenga

Banned
More Fun To Compute said:
Damn right. As far as I can tell the whole of society is broken until it can be organised to give this one guy an 8 figure salary at least.
can i have a 9 figure salary
 

Jenga

Banned
More Fun To Compute said:
Only if that guy can have a 13 figure salary becuase he works really hard, like unbelievably hard. Doing things that add real value unlike teachers or engineers.
i post on neogaf that's enough
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
onadesertedisland said:
I am so sick of lower income classes supporting right wing politics. I don't understand why the poor are not pouring support into this movement. I hope that this movement gels into a cohesive voice speaking louder than the tea party lunatics, while moving the country away from complete oligarchy.

A friend of mine had a co-worker last year who was an immigrant from India. This fellow was struggling and poor, despite his legal (documented) status, and had been here five years and not gotten any appreciable foothold in upward mobility. He was suffering directly from the policies of a corporatist/oligarch society.

In spite of his, he had become a rabid watcher of "FOXNEWS!" and a rabid neocon Republican supporter. He was a mini-neocon himself, and my friend got into a lot of arguments with this guy.

As near my friend could tell, this guy sucked up to the neocons and wall street because they validated his beliefs about what made people worthwhile, who deserved to rule society and why, etc. The very people who would keep him under a glass ceiling due to his race, if nothing else, given half the chance, were his personal heroes because of what they represented.

Now, I've seen that same attitude among naturally born Americans who are white, poor, and suffering directly from the problems with America's economic and societal structure - it's even more powerful for them because those flapping joweled dour white men in charge are "their people".

A tremendous number of people have been raised and conditioned all their life to believe in what George Carlin would rather sarcastically refer to as the "American Dream". They don't have sufficient knowledge of how things really work, and/or the critical thinking skills, to consider how many of the rich white men got rich. In their mind, their instinctive grasp of the situation is that every one of those bankers and hedge fund managers is a genius who rolled his sleeves up, took a hammer to a pile of lumber, and personally built this business empire by himself and is justly rewarded by the founding fathers and God. Even if they think some of them are rich assholes, they can't extract their frame of reference from vaguely seeing all of them as a Henry Ford. The narrative conditioning of the American Way has been highly successful.

Many of the poor in America see the rich as rich bastards, but accept blindly that it's their lot. The "higher classes" are there because that's just the way it's supposed to be. This is actually a pretty typical narrative among underclasses that can develop. In a sense, it's a survival skill; psychic armor against knowing that you're probably going to be doomed to toil under harsh conditions unless you get extremely lucky.

I've had conversations with white folk in the lower classes like that. They see the rich as alien beings, like royalty, existing in another dimension. They may not even like them, but they react with a practically religious offense to certain kinds of criticism of the rich.

The oligarchs have taken full advantage of this social conditioning and the "American Dream". The question is how quickly various demographics can wake up and experience an epiphany about what's really going on.
 
Toronto protest looks peaceful, hope it doesn't degenerate into a mob of vandals like the G20 protest


And I also can't stand all the other groups with fringe/unrelated agendas that show up to these things

I agree with taking a stand against greed but not a lot of the other signs and flags that ALWAYS pop up at these things
 

Ripclawe

Banned
onadesertedisland said:
I am so sick of lower income classes supporting right wing politics. I don't understand why the poor are not pouring support into this movement. I hope that this movement gels into a cohesive voice speaking louder than the tea party lunatics, while moving the country away from complete oligarchy.
so far when you really talk to the people in the movement, its the same crap I have been hearing since I was in college from leftists that there should be free this and that and social justice and tax the rich while I get something out of it.

Same ideology trying to disguise itself as a popular movement that is embracing this 99% of the population while blaming everything wrong in the world and in their personal lives on some 1%. Eventually the fringe groups who are the majority will dominate this movement.

As for the European protests, the people who are protesting are the same demanding free healthcare, housing..etc. are the reason european countries are in such a financial mess. They want everything for nothing
 

Alucrid

Banned
BigJonsson said:
Toronto protest looks peaceful, hope it doesn't degenerate into a mob of vandals like the G20 protest


And I also can't stand all the other groups with fringe/unrelated agendas that show up to these things

I agree with taking a stand against greed but not a lot of the other signs and flags that ALWAYS pop up at these things

What are Canadians protesting exactly?
 

Wazzim

Banned
Ripclawe said:
As for the European protests, the people who are protesting are the same demanding free healthcare, housing..etc. are the reason european countries are in such a financial mess. They want everything for nothing
No, some European countries are in a mess because of the US's lackluster regime and corruption in the system system of those select countries, not our top of the line socialist society.
Germany, the Netherlands, the UK and all the Scandinavian countries are rock solid.
The fuck ups in the US caused all this shit WE pay fucking high taxes while you guys eat $1 happy meals, and keep borrowing money like it's nothing. $1 would only get you sauce here for god's sake.

It isn't hard to see what went wrong and where, it's too obvious.
 
fiamme_21_672-458_resize.jpg


scontri_45_672-458_resize.jpg


fiamme_26_672-458_resize.jpg


cort_10_672-458_resize.jpg


scontri_27_672-458_resize.jpg


Protest hijack: successful
 

Alucrid

Banned
Ripclawe said:
so far when you really talk to the people in the movement, its the same crap I have been hearing since I was in college from leftists that there should be free this and that and social justice and tax the rich while I get something out of it.

Same ideology trying to disguise itself as a popular movement that is embracing this 99% of the population while blaming everything wrong in the world and in their personal lives on some 1%. Eventually the fringe groups who are the majority will dominate this movement.

As for the European protests, the people who are protesting are the same demanding free healthcare, housing..etc. are the reason european countries are in such a financial mess. They want everything for nothing

I dunno, the repeal of glass steagall pretty much let a few financiers play god with tons of money. Sucks that the fiduciary relationship was wrecked by a few and I don't see the dodd frank act doing all that much.
 

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
onadesertedisland said:
I am so sick of lower income classes supporting right wing politics. I don't understand why the poor are not pouring support into this movement. I hope that this movement gels into a cohesive voice speaking louder than the tea party lunatics, while moving the country away from complete oligarchy.

The GOP and Fox News are basically using a divide and conquer strategy, by using wedge issues (abortion, gay rights) and blaming others in the same lot ("it's not my fault I'm struggling financially, it's them illegal immigrants!") in order to get lower income people to support their corporatist policies.
 

Higgy

Member
We can get whole meals in America for a buck? Please point me this way cuz I'm paying out my ass in food prices. A kids happy meal is 3 bucks by the way.
 
Ripclawe said:
so far when you really talk to the people in the movement, its the same crap I have been hearing since I was in college from leftists that there should be free this and that and social justice and tax the rich while I get something out of it.

Same ideology trying to disguise itself as a popular movement that is embracing this 99% of the population while blaming everything wrong in the world and in their personal lives on some 1%. Eventually the fringe groups who are the majority will dominate this movement.

As for the European protests, the people who are protesting are the same demanding free healthcare, housing..etc. are the reason european countries are in such a financial mess. They want everything for nothing

It's like you were born without senses, making you impervious to external reality. A fascinating specimen you are.
 

jchap

Member
As usual, a large group of protesters can be made to look like an insane mob by just a few idiots. It's going to happen in the US eventually, and it will discredit the entire movement.
 

.GqueB.

Banned
ReBurn said:
For some weird reason people are ok with athletes and celebrities making millions. They just don't like it when corporate executives and investors make millions. Still trying to figure that out.
I wrestled with that a bit last year but when it all comes down to it, it wouldn't be very fair if they DIDNT make that much money. Simple fact is, when they do their jobs correctly they make someone else a lot of money.

For instance, Michael Jordan was a great Basketball player. People paid to come see him play. People purchased shoes just because his logo was on them. He was a big draw and he had a direct influence on how much money many companies made. So if his mere presence and personality makes someone else millions of dollars would it be fair if he made, say, 60k per season? It wouldn't be fair. It would be even less fair than a teacher making less than that for actually TEACHING Michael Jordan (who would eventually grow up to be great).

Unfortunately, celebrities/athletes are directly responsible for the success and failure of many high grossing activities. Its that simple. It's fair that they are compensated in my eyes. It's feels a bit lopsided at first glance that an actor can make millions from about 2 months of work but when you think about it, it kind of isn't.
 
Italy's situation is far far different from our own; only erroneous connections could make it any different. Plus, their president seems like a complete and total joke and the perfect type of guy to sell out a country for a high five and a buck fifty
 

Alucrid

Banned
Alpha-Bromega said:
Italy's situation is far far different from our own; only erroneous connections could make it any different. Plus, their president seems like a complete and total joke and the perfect type of guy to sell out a country for a high five and a buck fifty

Regardless I can see news casters going "THIS IS WHAT OCCUPY IS GOING TO TURN INTO GET YER GUNS AND PROTECT YER AMERICHUS"
 
Alpha-Bromega said:
Italy's situation is far far different from our own; only erroneous connections could make it any different. Plus, their president seems like a complete and total joke and the perfect type of guy to sell out a country for a high five and a buck fifty
So is ours
 
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