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[N-Bomb]

You can't be serious right? Are you seriously inferring that from what I wrote? That's the fucking retarded argument you come up with. In that case, yes, because he has HIV he should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants. That's exactly what I was saying. Yes, it was. Fucking dumb comment is dumb.

Then why would you even bring it up? What relevance does it have to the topic except to inflame people and demonize the cop? Unless this guy had obvious signs of HIV and it's a social norm that we don't xx people with HIV?

This kind of talk is getting to be just as bad as what you hear at Tea Party rallies.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Yeah, when I first heard about this: I thought it was stupid hippie bullsh!t...but after actually thinking for 2 seconds, I hope it succeeds like hel! to counteract the idiot tea party movement who are full of idiots that don't know how to get this economy running at all.

I'm so sick of congress and Republicans who won't freaking budge to raise taxes for the rich, I mean seriously?!?!? This country has all this freaking debt and we're not even going to raise taxes for the rich...screw them raise them so we can pay off our debt. They're already living the life and sitting upon a ton of cash they're not going to use and was made from us, anyways. Even Warren Buffet said to already raise taxes on the rich.

That's basically why I support this movement and seriously, hope it succeeds even though a lot of people don't know what they're doing.

In conclusion: I, for one, welcome our new Occupy Wall Street overlords.

You should have stopped thinking at 1 second. You were right.

 

[akira28]

I know N-Bomb from places other than this forum. He is most certainly on OWS' side. And you jumping down his throat only illustrates how ridiculous some of this argument has become.

OK so you know him. I don't. I was replying to his post about my "inflated sense of self-importance". So you're welcome to walk off.

 

[N-Bomb]

Occupy Canada is hilarious, especially since the elections were held on May 2nd and these young people didn't go out to vote.

And look what happened, suburban Ontario awarded Harper with a majority government.

today, Occupy Toronto whahwhahah

fuck you! you had your chance to vote last May, why did you let Harper win a majority?

when it comes time to vote... vote!!! the participation was still weak and the youth demographic stayed home again last May 2nd

now we are stuck with Harper for 4 years

Well the argument I guess would be that these people don't feel that the existing system would serve them any better one way or the other. Maybe they're right, I don't know. I feel it's my duty to vote, so I do, but I recognize that the Canadian system is set up for stability at the expense of progress/change/whatever.

Maybe that's a good thing, maybe it's bad, but as I said, these people must not have thought their votes mattered, and in that case this protest is as valid as any other.

Sometimes you can't change the system from within? :\

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

So are these people protesting to the people on Wall Street or to the politicians? I would think doing this on the steps of congress would make a lot more sense.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

So are these people protesting to the people on Wall Street or to the politicians? I would think doing this on the steps of congress would make a lot more sense.

They're protesting Wall Street. The actual street. They want to move it a few blocks to the left.

 

[akira28]

So are these people protesting to the people on Wall Street or to the politicians? I would think doing this on the steps of congress would make a lot more sense.

They have two separate Occupy movements in Washington, at two spots. But the time will come for a major protest, when the different groups from around the country camp out and meet, but that's a long way out. A year or years even.

(Also...doing it on the steps of the Capitol would take permits and fees etc. Logistics.)

 

[Enron]

So are these people protesting to the people on Wall Street or to the politicians? I would think doing this on the steps of congress would make a lot more sense.

That WOULD make a lot more sense, wouldn't it?

But no, instead they are taking up residence in parks, tearing them up, have no sanitation, walking out into the streets and blocking traffic (in NYC), stretching community resources thin (police) and are generally being an annoyance (at least in NY, Denver, and Atlanta, not all the OCCUPY protests are doing this) to the residents and shopkeepers of the neighborhoods they are camping out in.

 

[N-Bomb]

OK so you know him. I don't. I was replying to his post about my "inflated sense of self-importance". So you're welcome to walk off.

I must have interpreted your words wrongly. Now that I read them again, I can see what you must have meant. I did mean the comment more generally than at you in particular though.

That said, I do think that there are people on this forum that have that attitude, and that take this discussion way more SRSBZ than is warranted.

 

[N-Bomb]

That WOULD make a lot more sense, wouldn't it?

But no, instead they are taking up residence in parks, tearing them up, have no sanitation, walking out into the streets and blocking traffic (in NYC), stretching community resources thin (police) and are generally being an annoyance (at least in NY, Denver, and Atlanta, not all the OCCUPY protests are doing this) to the residents and shopkeepers of the neighborhoods they are camping out in.

With this in mind, don't you think they should lower the police presence? I can guarantee that the protests won't be going anywhere, so I'd think that while they stay peaceful, it would be better to move the cops elsewhere to where they'd be more useful.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

That WOULD make a lot more sense, wouldn't it?

But no, instead they are taking up residence in parks, tearing them up, have no sanitation, walking out into the streets and blocking traffic (in NYC), stretching community resources thin (police) and are generally being an annoyance (at least in NY, Denver, and Atlanta, not all the OCCUPY protests are doing this) to the residents and shopkeepers of the neighborhoods they are camping out in.

Indeed. This may be the most misguided protest movement in my lifetime and maybe in the history of this country.
I stand by those words.

 

[gutter_trash]

Well the argument I guess would be that these people don't feel that the existing system would serve them any better one way or the other. Maybe they're right, I don't know. I feel it's my duty to vote, so I do, but I recognize that the Canadian system is set up for stability at the expense of progress/change/whatever.

Maybe that's a good thing, maybe it's bad, but as I said, these people must not have thought their votes mattered, and in that case this protest is as valid as any other.

Sometimes you can't change the system from within? :\

actually, the NDP wants to change the electoral system to be more proportional

so if the pro-proportional representation camp wanted to initiate this change, then they should have vote NDP instead of not voting at all

 

[empty vessel]

So are these people protesting to the people on Wall Street or to the politicians? I would think doing this on the steps of congress would make a lot more sense.

Occupying Wall Street demonstrates that they understand where power lies and where the problems lie. It is the object they want re-regulated and held accountable. If they were on the steps of Congress, the message wouldn't be nearly as loud or clear.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Occupying Wall Street demonstrates that they understand where power lies and where the problems lie. It is the object they want re-regulated and held accountable. If they were on the steps of Congress, the message wouldn't be nearly as loud or clear.

But that should be clear to anybody who read a couple of the signs they waved and obviously the people on Wall Street aren't going to care what these protesters thing. Protesting in that location does give the protesters more media attention though.

They have two separate Occupy movements in Washington, at two spots. But the time will come for a major protest, when the different groups from around the country camp out and meet, but that's a long way out. A year or years even.

(Also...doing it on the steps of the Capitol would take permits and fees etc. Logistics.)

Well I could understand maybe a year at most since that would be just in time for the elections. It would kind of set the tone of the elections if you have the tea party/republican party fractured over whoever the republican nominee is and then a huge organized protest against the corporations throws independents even further to the left.

 

[Enron]

With this in mind, don't you think they should lower the police presence? I can guarantee that the protests won't be going anywhere, so I'd think that while they stay peaceful, it would be better to move the cops elsewhere to where they'd be more useful.

The only one of these that really has the HUGE police presence is NYC. The protesters there are more, uhm, shall we say animated than the rest of the nation and if not for the overwhelming police presence, they'd all be sitting down in the middle of the street and fucking shit up.

 

[N-Bomb]

actually, the NDP wants to change the electoral system to be more proportional

so if the pro-proportional representation camp wanted to initiate this change, then they should have vote NDP instead of not voting at all

That I agree with. Pleased the NDP got official opposition, disappointed that turnout is consistently so low. These youngsters are basically giving the old generation carte blanche to run things.

 

[JohnTinker]

mazel tov, ows

 

[N-Bomb]

The only one of these that really has the HUGE police presence is NYC. The protesters there are more, uhm, shall we say animated than the rest of the nation and if not for the overwhelming police presence, they'd all be sitting down in the middle of the street and fucking shit up.

Are you counting the raids in Boston and Denver as a police presence?

 

[Enron]

mazel tov, ows

Excellent.

 

[Enron]

Are you counting the raids in Boston and Denver as a police presence?

I forgot about Boston - but as far as I remember, there wasn't a Policewall at those protests until they decided to go clear them out. And even then, im not sure how many cops it actually was doing the sweep. But I feel pretty confident in saying its not anywhere near to the NYPD presence, given what we have seen in photos and videos.

 

[empty vessel]

mazel tov, ows

http://i.imgur.com/Znu6g.png

Who cares what conspiracy theorists do?

 

[Something Wicked]

Occupy Boston has apparently cost the Mass taxpayers $146K and Occupy NY has cost a whopping $2 million in police overtime. Way to really stick it to the rich, guys...

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/re...sts_hub146g_in_police_ot/srvc=home&position=0

Occupy Boston protesters have cost the city $146,000 in overtime since the camp-in began, but one top city official fears the spending could balloon if the movement expands or lingers for weeks.


City cops have already put in 3,056 hours of OT since the protests began Oct. 1, Boston police reported.


Earlier this week, City Council President Steve Murphy said he was told the OT tab could reach $2 million if the demonstration remained through the end of the month.

“What I’ve been told is they projected it to be higher based on the unpredictability of what could happen moment to moment,” Murphy said yesterday. “I’m glad to hear it’s lower than what I’ve been told. That’s a good thing. However, there’s still a question of how long it lasts and what happens on a day-to-day basis.”

Murphy pointed to New York, where protests have sporadically moved from neighborhood to neighborhood.

In Manhattan yesterday, cops arrested 14 protesters during a march from a public park toward the financial district.

New York has already spent $2 million in police overtime on the protests, which began Sept. 17.

Boston cops already thwarted one attempted expansion, arresting 100-plus “occupiers” this week who tried to set up a new tent city across the street from the existing Dewey Square encampment.

Dozens of cops also blocked demonstrators from crossing the Charlestown Bridge. Occupy organizers have not set a timeline for how long they plan to remain on the public park land.

 

[empty vessel]

Occupy Boston has apparently cost the Mass taxpayers $146K and Occupy NY has cost a whopping $2 million in police overtime. Way to really stick it to the rich, guys...

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/re...sts_hub146g_in_police_ot/srvc=home&position=0

The police can go home. It's not the protesters causing them to be out there. It's the top 1%.

 

[akira28]

I must have interpreted your words wrongly. Now that I read them again, I can see what you must have meant. I did mean the comment more generally than at you in particular though.

That said, I do think that there are people on this forum that have that attitude, and that take this discussion way more SRSBZ than is warranted.

Here's a bottle of Asahi, for you. It's what I've been drinking.

This protest, the issues at hand are serious biz my friend, truly. Getting into it with Manos and Enron over the issues isn't at all serious.

But those two are really serious about trying to...I don't quite know what they're trying to do, really. They're not even true opposition, they're literally just making fun of people's clothes and signs, making excuses for police, everything, complaining that the protesters aren't good enough for them, you name it. They had to start this new thread because Manos' thread originally was for questioning the protest and making fun of it, and then they had to come here to start it all up again?

His thread remains, but it's no fun when all the supporters are over here. Manos even said he wouldn't come here, specifically because of that, but he cannot resist. Don't join in that, is all I'm saying.

 

[remnant]

Occupy Boston has apparently cost the Mass taxpayers $146K and Occupy NY has cost a whopping $2 million in police overtime. Way to really stick it to the rich, guys...

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/re...sts_hub146g_in_police_ot/srvc=home&position=0

Yeah I had wondered how much overtime cops would get for this. Must be nice.

It's going to be interesting to see what effect this occupations have on local economies.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Does anyone have the list of names of all the people in the top 1%?

 

[Quixzlizx]

Who cares what conspiracy theorists do?

I guess that's why the media coverage has been lackluster.

 

[Something Wicked]

The police can go home. It's not the protesters causing them to be out there. It's the top 1%.

Yeah, well, tell that to the rest of the general public when the media continues to remind them of the costs of these protests.

 

[dorkimoe]

this is how the end of the world will start
peaceful protests
1 year from now the world will be on fire

 

[Clevinger]

Yeah, well, tell that to the rest of the general public when the media continues to remind them of the costs of these protests.

The costs of these protests is pennies compared to what they're protesting against has cost, so please just stop this line of bullshit now.

 

[akira28]

Well I could understand maybe a year at most since that would be just in time for the elections. It would kind of set the tone of the elections if you have the tea party/republican party fractured over whoever the republican nominee is and then a huge organized protest against the corporations throws independents even further to the left.

People are even looking past elections at this point Kermit. Too much of this is built into that 2-4 year campaigning model of politics, with both sides trading power every couple of seasons, and life for Americans remaining in decline. So we need a long term mindset to resolve this, we can't just aim for 2012, or even 2016. Playing the Democratic-Republican game is how we got here in the first place.

When I say years, I mean real change in our country, not just trying to synch things up to shake up Obama during the election, or get out the vote. Even handpicking our own President at this point wouldn't fix anything really, so right now people are trying to focus. This thing isn't on its feet yet, it's still crouched on its knees. Right now, people are just happy to find that they're not alone in willing to stand up to this. IF it gets up, don't expect Change to come in the form of just another 4 years for President Obama, though.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Occupy Canada is hilarious, especially since the elections were held on May 2nd and these young people didn't go out to vote.

And look what happened, suburban Ontario awarded Harper with a majority government.

today, Occupy Toronto whahwhahah

fuck you! you had your chance to vote last May, why did you let Harper win a majority?

when it comes time to vote... vote!!! the participation was still weak and the youth demographic stayed home again last May 2nd

now we are stuck with Harper for 4 years

Hypocrite.

Ever thought that maybe the people protesting actually did go and vote for someone else than Harper? It's not the whole of Canada that is in the fucking streets.

Don't justify your lack of willingness to make the effort to participate in the protest under the pretense that those who do so are in fact lazy.

 

[remnant]

Hypocrite.

Ever thought that maybe the people protesting actually did go and vote for someone else than Harper? It's not the whole of Canada that is in the fucking streets.

Don't justify your lack of willingness to make the effort to participate in the protest under the pretense that those who do are in fact lazy.

So if those people did vote, and they lost then how can they protest and say they represent the majority of Canada?

 

[Kevtones]

So when do the cities start cutting jobs due to rising control costs?

 

[jamesinclair]

Occupy Boston has apparently cost the Mass taxpayers $146K and Occupy NY has cost a whopping $2 million in police overtime. Way to really stick it to the rich, guys...
l]

Liberty Mutual was given a $45 MILLION tax cut to expand their office in Boston.

Whats hilarious is people like you throwing out "OMG, 150k in costs that were only created because the cops overeacted!" when the protesters are protesting BILLIONS in lobbying, tax cuts and fraud.

It's like saying

"OMG, what hypocrites, that guy protesting KFC because they abuse animals just killed a mosquito!"

 

[magicstop]

lol, the trolls done shit the bed. Not even that well done, just sheer volume and stupidity it would appear.
Well, just got back from first part of Occupy Chapel Hill, and I'm headed back tonight for our occupation. Things went pretty well, especially with all of the foot traffic leaving the football game this afternoon. Gave us plenty of chances for general outreach and creating presence in the community. We'll see how camping out tonight goes. Will probably see a few more rich old white men in Escalades and BMW's shouting at us to get a job. In truth, comedic relief is kinda nice
Oh, and I know that for whatever reason the trolls are allowed in here, but just a reminder: we don't have to respond to them. Let's exercise that ability The worst that will happen is we'll hear the tired old "Oh, so disagreeing = trolling now, huh? What a fascist." Somehow I think we can all live, lol.

So when do the cities start cutting jobs due to rising control costs?

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14303473

 

[N-Bomb]

this is how the end of the world will start
peaceful protests
1 year from now the world will be on fire

As long as it doesn't vindicate Nostradamus somehow, I'm fine with it.

 

[Kevtones]

lol, the trolls done shit the bed. Not even that well done, just sheer volume and stupidity it would appear.
Well, just got back from first part of Occupy Chapel Hill, and I'm headed back tonight for our occupation. Things went pretty well, especially with all of the foot traffic leaving the football game this afternoon. Gave us plenty of chances for general outreach and creating presence in the community. We'll see how camping out tonight goes. Will probably see a few more rich old white men in Escalades and BMW's shouting at us to get a job. In truth, comedic relief is kinda nice
Oh, and I know that for whatever reason the trolls are allowed in here, but just a reminder: we don't have to respond to them. Let's exercise that ability The worst that will happen is we'll hear the tired old "Oh, so disagreeing = trolling now, huh? What a fascist." Somehow I think we can all live, lol.

In three sentences, specify your stance:

 

[jamesinclair]

lol, the trolls done shit the bed. Not even that well done, just sheer volume and stupidity it would appear.

It really is a cascade of idiocy. Two or three seconds of reasonable thought can debunk these "criticisms".

It really is a case of old man yells at cloud. Pure nonsense, and they get all red faced over it.

 

[akira28]

This Godwinning calls for champagne, doesn't it? I didn't think the thread had quite gotten there, just yet.

In three sentences, specify your stance:

Nein. Nein. Nein.

:>

 

[NathanMcMahon]

The costs of these protests is pennies compared to what they're protesting against has cost, so please just stop this line of bullshit now.

It's grasping at straws and is just pathetic. It's just like that dude up there pointing out me mentioning the guy that got punched had HIV. Either he has no valid point against what I actually said or he really is too stupid to understand that I was just mentioning what every news organization mentioned when describing the fucking guy who got punched by a pig cop. They miss the entire point and they have no argument and nothing to stand on so they cry about the bullshit and try to change the discussion to something they can better understand or yell about.

 

[Funky Papa]

Regarding the international protests:

Madrid:

Barcelona:

Quite a bit of people. Elections should be fun, despiting the fact that the the zombified right will end taking the presidency.

Edit: LOOK AT ALL THOSE DIRTY HIPPIES.

 

[polyh3dron]

Indeed. This may be the most misguided protest movement in my lifetime and maybe in the history of this country.
I stand by those words.

nope, that would be the tea party protests

 

[coldvein]

can't we just fix the tax structure or something? shiiiiiiit..

 

[Higgy]

Opie from Opie and Anthony who is the liberal on that show went down to be inspired and said he could only find a few people who could articulate a opinion. Now he's being accused of selective editing but he says he really went with an open mind but just couldn't take this as a serious movement after spending time talking to the protestors.

A little background on him. He was for Obama, he's a shock jock, he's rich but doesn't mind to much paying a shit load of taxes but gets pissed with all the waste and mismanagement. And is a major smart ass as you see in the vids.

Hers a description from his first vid: Went down to Occupy Wall Street here in NYC looking to get inspired but instead I saw something that was no better than the parking lot at a Dead show!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQlYC8Yjirc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX-zcYygIE8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAwRJsYJ8A8&feature=related

 

[Frank the Great]

i don't understand the obsession with tax policy from both sides.

get money out of politics first and fix the voting system. then changes will follow.

 

[remnant]

Liberty Mutual was given a $45 MILLION tax cut to expand their office in Boston.

Whats hilarious is people like you throwing out "OMG, 150k in costs that were only created because the cops overeacted!" when the protesters are protesting BILLIONS in lobbying, tax cuts and fraud.

It's like saying

"OMG, what hypocrites, that guy protesting KFC because they abuse animals just killed a mosquito!"

If this an example of financial thinking in America, than god help us all. If the city of Boston is having to pay over 150K overime due to an event that was unforseen and unbudgetted, that is going to affect their revenue for next year, not including the effect that this has had on local buisness and the taxes they pay. Decreased revenue and increased costs? Not good for City.

Comparing that to a 45 million tax cut meant to pay off in the long run is a stretch. If that investment works they could pay that off in a short amount of time.

 

[XMonkey]

i don't understand the obsession with tax policy from both sides.

get money out of politics first and fix the voting system. then changes will follow.

We should do both. Changes to tax policy are a relatively simple goal to achieve; the methods and means are already in place to do so.

Getting money out is the real challenge and will be, in my opinion, the hardest thing for this movement to accomplish (which is why I think it needs to be the first priority). To do it effectively would require a lot of change and that means a lot of time.

 

[gutter_trash]

Hypocrite.

Ever thought that maybe the people protesting actually did go and vote for someone else than Harper? It's not the whole of Canada that is in the fucking streets.

Don't justify your lack of willingness to make the effort to participate in the protest under the pretense that those who do so are in fact lazy.

Surburban Ontario awarded Harper the majority, blame Ontario first and foremost

I'm not a hypocrite, i voted NDP and forced the Bloc Leader to lose his seat and I am happy that way

 

[akira28]

can't we just fix the tax structure or something? shiiiiiiit..

After years of hearing my former Republican father go on and on and on about taxes for years. They finally did fix it. It's why we're so fucked for the future.

Now we need large groups of people, and real fear of unrest, since they discount our words and split our votes.

The sooner they figure out a way to mobilize that large number of unemployed Americans, the Occupy numbers would skyrocket.

They need donation escrow Paypals, travel plans for buses and mass transit, etc to get people out there. Soon as these things get established, they'll go back to ground, go back into communities and gather even more people.

Maybe they need an online nerve center with all the news and youtube videos of the day, plus infomaps, built in collaboration software, etc. Somewhere where anyone can get info for their local Occupy protest even.

Higgy: Opie and Anthony are kinda jerkwaddish. I really wouldn't want to mix them and this protest together. So he went down there and didn't feel the wind up his skirt?