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[rdrr gnr]

OWS has also blossomed into a worldwide movement of every demographic. check and mate

when the world has joined in solidarity with eachother as brothers/sisters with a common goal, i'd say that's a pretty big fucking success.


how the fuck can you, in a thousand years, compare that to the racist, Randian ramblings of a fringe group who hold rallies? it's erroneous at the least, and downright fucking moronic in any sense

Woah, woah, BRO. I'm on your side. I know that my previous post was ambivalent in its nature, but I was just pointing out that even if one is not in support of OWS, it is objectively a more genuine movement.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

The message appears muddled to me. It needs focus or it's just going to escalate into attrition.

i've been saying a lot, but the mass is there simply as display of discontent; let the articulate and educated in the subjects at hand deal with the specifics.

and yeah, it's local. The issues of Spain aren't the issues of London to the T, but the overarching issue of a corruption of Democracy so deep and rotten is there regardless. The worldwide agreement is that the Financial System, in collusion with the government, has done immoral, illegal and just plain wrong things to the detriment of the global population.

 

[ronito]

So is this insipid "We are the 53%!" movement really 53% because they pay taxes? I mean you'd figure the fact that 47% of people are so poor they don't pay taxes at all is a pretty bad thing and only makes the 99%'s point. Of course it is a conservative thing. Don't expect nuance or for things to be "thought out"

 

[rdrr gnr]

Updates via Al Jezeera (might be old):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kCrVY1VyxQ&feature=feedu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH8S8RhtvHA&feature=feedu

 

[eBay Huckster]

Well no shit but that says nothing about the current economic situation. You think there's 9% unemployed and more under employed because they don't want a job? Get real. Just because there's a few guys like that doesn't take anything way from the situation at hand.

Not only that but NYC's unemployment rate is roughly consistent with that of the entire US at 8.7% (as of last month)... and it's only 8.7% because of thousands of discouraged workers leaving the labor force.

So is this insipid "We are the 53%!" movement really 53% because they pay taxes? I mean you'd figure the fact that 47% of people are so poor they don't pay taxes at all is a pretty bad thing and only makes the 99%'s point. Of course it is a conservative thing. Don't expect nuance or for things to be "thought out"

It's more like "we are the 5%" given how many of the 'contributions' have already been proven to be photoshopped (and there's a spectacular example here).

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Woah, woah, BRO. I'm on your side. I know that my previous post was ambivalent in its nature, but I was just pointing out that even if one is not in support of OWS, it is objectively a more genuine movement.

ah! brother i didn't mean to be saying these things to you!!!! i meant them to those who would compare them erroneously or as a way to deligitimize the OWS movement. I got your post, trust me, i was just using it as reference to build upon my own ideas

Sorry dude!!

 

[aronnov reborn]

So when this victory happens shortly what will be the result? If victory is assured now that its went global tell me how my life will change in the next 2 years. This sounds revolutionary and that means my day to day life should be profoundly different.

it means my fellow conservatives will even have more control come next november.. keep on keeping on OWS!

 

[Higgy]

Well no shit but that says nothing about the current economic situation. You think there's 9% unemployed and more under employed because they don't want a job? Get real. Just because there's a few guys like that doesn't take anything way from the situation at hand.

I'm saying what the problem with the New York protest is that's the majority of the people living in the park are like that. I don't have a problem with the movement. I love movements whether I agree with them or not. I'm saying New York is a freak show. If you don't think so I respect your opinion. We just agree to disagree.

 

[rdrr gnr]

ah! brother i didn't mean to be saying these things to you!!!! i meant them to those who would compare them erroneously or as a way to deligitimize the OWS movement. I got your post, trust me, i was just using it as reference to build upon my own ideas

Sorry dude!!

NP, friend.

 

[Kevtones]

What does 'social justice' equate to? That's incredibly broad and it'll be perceived as self-serving unless better defined.





Focus that shit. The quicker you define and centralize the arugment the quicker you lose the label as an 'aimless airing of grievances' platform from those disparaging it.

 

[Myansie]

That WOULD make a lot more sense, wouldn't it?

But no, instead they are taking up residence in parks, tearing them up, have no sanitation, walking out into the streets and blocking traffic (in NYC), stretching community resources thin (police) and are generally being an annoyance (at least in NY, Denver, and Atlanta, not all the OCCUPY protests are doing this) to the residents and shopkeepers of the neighborhoods they are camping out in.

$2,000,000 for the NYPD to keep protesters in check
$1,500,000,000,000 wiped off the stock exchange thanks to the GFC and the American Banks fraudulent practices.

In the last twenty years we have had the second and third largest crashes in economic history. We know what caused them, bank deregulation and a lack of judicial enforcement. We are now heading into a third boom. With the huge unemployment rate so high the economy is not healthy and yet the growth curve is already back to pre GFC levels. The reason is the same as the last two times. Wall St gambling is artificially creating another bubble.

Sing La La La all you want, but the protests that follow the third crash will be riots.

 

[coldvein]

it means my fellow conservatives will even have more control come next november.. keep on keeping on OWS!

mmm control

that word gives me and my conservative friends a huge boner.

 

[ronito]

it means my fellow conservatives will even have more control come next november.. keep on keeping on OWS!

That's only if the republicans can put someone up that appeals to the middle. Not like Herman "Unemployed? It's your own damn fault" Cain or Rick "Can't we just pray it away?" Perry. Seeing the way conservatives are going, getting a candidate that the middle wont think is batshit insane? ha! good luck with that. They're in the race but they'll never make it out of primary.

It's the republican's election to lose. But so far they're losing it.

 

[akira28]

How we see the OWS:
Pictures of the 60s Civil Rights and Anti-War movements, Kent State, Birmingham, late 19thcentury early 20th Organized Workers Movements, American Socialists opposing the early proto-fascists. Marching and singing in solidarity, waving the flag, locking arms, standing together.

How they see the OWS:
Videos of chimpanzees riding around on go-carts while Todd Rundgren's Bang on the Drums All Day plays in the background. Men in skinny jeans making out with each other, women engaged in a pagan lesbian chanting circle around a burning American Flag while Fox News watching parents look on, horrified to see how their mailed tuition money is REALLY being spent. "In the garden of eden baby..." is heard in the background, growled by an angry man hovering over a keyboard. "Please take my haaaaaaaand..." fades to black.

 

[XMonkey]

So is this insipid "We are the 53%!" movement really 53% because they pay taxes? I mean you'd figure the fact that 47% of people are so poor they don't pay taxes at all is a pretty bad thing and only makes the 99%'s point. Of course it is a conservative thing. Don't expect nuance or for things to be "thought out"

The problem is those people are focused solely on taxes (and doing it in a very petty way, imo). They don't see the bigger picture and how it's effecting them, too.

That's also why I do think it's time to coalesce a few of these grievances and gain some focus. It should be fairly general to appeal to a wide audience at the start. A big theme of this seemed to be letting people express their own grievances, but at this point I know there are certain things almost all would agree on like limiting the influence of money in government, holding Wall Street accountable, etc. Specific policy solutions take time to work out, but articulating some of the basic truths to focus the movement does not.

 

[Higgy]

That's only if the republicans can put someone up that appeals to the middle. Not like Herman "Unemployed? It's your own damn fault" Cain or Rick "Can't we just pray it away?" Perry. Seeing the way conservatives are going, getting a candidate that the middle wont think is batshit insane? ha! good luck with that. They're in the race but they'll never make it out of primary.

It's the republican's election to lose. But so far they're losing it.

But we all know in the end the Republicans always plug there nose and toss the Buchanan's and the Huckabee's aside and nominate someone more electable. Romney is coming.

 

[rdrr gnr]

That's only if the republicans can put someone up that appeals to the middle. Not like Herman "Unemployed? It's your own damn fault" Cain or Rick "Can't we just pray it away?" Perry. Seeing the way conservatives are going, getting a candidate that the middle wont think is batshit insane? ha! good luck with that. They're in the race but they'll never make it out of primary.

It's the republican's election to lose. But so far they're losing it.

I still like Herman "U beki beki beki beki beki stan stan stan -- Moses" Cain.

 

[Ether_Snake]

So when this victory happens shortly what will be the result? If victory is assured now that its went global tell me how my life will change in the next 2 years. This sounds revolutionary and that means my day to day life should be profoundly different.

Nice try bud.

Victory is every time the protest are mentioned, every time you hear about lack of social justice, of abuse of power, of lack of regulation of corporations that have teared the economy apart, when you hear about politicians that are not making the effort to represent the people and instead fight for lobbyists. Victory is when the middle class across the world lets its voice heard rather than be muted by the paid-for message of anti-middle class politics drawn by corporatists.

I'd suggest that you bother to think before asking this kind of question, you're depicting yourself as a sort of Jabba the Hut waiting to be fed by your neighbors' tireless efforts to defend the middle class.

So is this insipid "We are the 53%!" movement really 53% because they pay taxes? I mean you'd figure the fact that 47% of people are so poor they don't pay taxes at all is a pretty bad thing and only makes the 99%'s point. Of course it is a conservative thing. Don't expect nuance or for things to be "thought out"

It's called divide and conquer.

 

[Tapiozona]

So I've been modestly following the Occupy Wall Street news but I'm still a bit confused as to what they're after. Most protests have a very clear message and list of demands. What are the protesters after?

Changes in taxation? Would a bill taxing financial transactions cause everyone to go home? Or do they want something more akin to the collapse of the Global banking system?

Social justice is such a broad term that get's thrown around a lot in regards to these protests but what exactly does that encompass? It's too vague to be solved by any single act of government so what do they mean by social justice? You can't possibly mean to take money from the rich and give it directly to the poor for those who earned their income through hard work and perseverance. Do they want communism? Or is this not about the individual and about the Corporations who make these people rich? I understand they're fed up with corruption but corporate America can't be generalized in such a manner. Of course it exists in limited forms but how do you stop it? It takes so many shapes and forms.
Not taking sides in this and sorry if I sound ignorant, again, I haven't been following all this very closely. Just curious is all.

 

[sp3000]

And if I can't get a job because absolutely fuck all is driving consumer demand thanks to all of these self-same rich folks shipping every last job off to China, India and Mexico? Should I just sit back and say "welp, guess I shouldn't get mad about this at all, since I'm not a business or engineering major and I'm absolute shit at all of the trades"?

They are doing that because people in those countries are willing to work harder than you for a lower wage. So yes you should because then your pretty much useless to every company when you compare yourself against those who are willing to work 12 hours a day for a dollar.

That's what happens with globalization, and you can't do a thing to stop it. Cry all you want about evil capitalists but those Chinese and Indians are willing to work harder than you are.

 

[rdrr gnr]

So I've been modestly following the Occupy Wall Street news but I'm still a bit confused as to what they're after. Most protests have a very clear message and list of demands. What are the protesters after?

Changes in taxation? Would a bill taxing financial transactions cause everyone to go home? Or do they want something more akin to the collapse of the Global banking system?

Social justice is such a broad term that get's thrown around a lot in regards to these protests but what exactly does that encompass? It's too vague to be solved by any single act of government so what do they mean by social justice? You can't possibly mean to take money from the rich and give it directly to the poor for those who earned their income through hard work and perseverance. Do they want communism? Or is this not about the individual and about the Corporations who make these people rich? I understand they're fed up with corruption but corporate can't be generalized in such a manner. Of course it exists in limited forms but how do you stop it? It takes so many shapes and forms.

Not taking sides in this and sorry if I sound ignorant, again, I haven't been following all this very closely. Just curious is all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWyrk10_S84

I'd suggest watching the hundreds of OWS videos on Current's YT channel as well.

 

[ronito]

But we all know in the end the Republicans always plug there nose and toss the Buchanan's and the Huckabee's aside and nominate someone more electable. Romney is coming.

I will say if Romney gets the nod Obama's in SERIOUS trouble.

But he's still got the "I will increase defense spending!" and the corporate schmuck image that would turn people off. But still he's the only republican out there (other than Huntsman who has a snowball's chance) that could win it.

But honestly, the hard/evangelical right voting for Mormon Flip-flopper? I just don't see that happening.

 

[XMonkey]

They are doing that because people in those countries are willing to work harder than you for a lower wage. So yes you should because then your pretty much useless to every company when you compare yourself against those who are willing to work 12 hours a day for a dollar.

Are you being serious?

 

[akira28]

Higgy your mom doesn't look like a hippie at all. Unless you have more pictures I remain unconvinced.

edit: or PM if you're...i mean..nm..

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

They are doing that because people in those countries are willing to work harder than you for a lower wage. So yes you should because then your pretty much useless to every company when you compare yourself against those who are willing to work 12 hours a day for a dollar.

That's what happens with globalization, and you can't do a thing to stop it.

this is an issue, subverting basic human standards for a profit.

 

[eBay Huckster]

They are doing that because people in those countries are willing to work harder than you for a lower wage. So yes you should because then your pretty much useless to every company when you compare yourself against those who are willing to work 12 hours a day for a dollar.

So basically you're saying I should be glad to work myself to death for two dollars an hour because workers in China and India without any kind of workplace protections are willing to do the same. Am I getting this right?

 

[Ether_Snake]

What does 'social justice' equate to? That's incredibly broad and it'll be perceived as self-serving unless better defined.





Focus that shit. The quicker you define and centralize the arugment the quicker you lose the label as an 'aimless airing of grievances' platform from those disparaging it.

I suggest you do some reading.

 

[Something Wicked]

Liberty Mutual was given a $45 MILLION tax cut to expand their office in Boston.

Whats hilarious is people like you throwing out "OMG, 150k in costs that were only created because the cops overeacted!" when the protesters are protesting BILLIONS in lobbying, tax cuts and fraud.

It's like saying

"OMG, what hypocrites, that guy protesting KFC because they abuse animals just killed a mosquito!"

A) Take that tax break up with Emperor Menino, who isn't exactly the biggest fan of OWS either.

B) Massachusetts has the third highest state corporate taxes on financial firms (9.5% I believe) in the country. Such types of firms been having leaving Mass for decades due to it's suffocating tax structure and regulations- costing the state 10,000s of jobs.

 

[Higgy]

Nice try bud.

Victory is every time the protest are mentioned, every time you hear about lack of social justice, of abuse of power, of lack of regulation of corporations that have teared the economy apart, when you hear about politicians that are not making the effort to represent the people and instead fight for lobbyists. Victory is when the middle class across the world lets its voice heard rather than be muted by the paid-for message of anti-middle class politics drawn by corporatists.

I'd suggest that you bother to think before asking this kind of question, you're depicting yourself as a sort of Jabba the Hut waiting to be fed by your neighbors' tireless efforts to defend the middle class.

And I can go to some right wing web site and hear the same drivel by some guy who thinks the same revolution is coming every time he hears the tea party mentioned on the news. You know that drivel how the government is stripping away freedom and all that jazz. Same tune different party.

 

[coldvein]

I suggest you do some reading.

occupy the library?

 

[pj]

Anyone who unironically uses the term "hippie" as a deragatory term automatically loses any type of relevance to me. And their opinion is invalidated.



Seriously, who are you? Fucking Archie Bunker?

Have you been to any of the protests? At occupy wall st there are the exact type of silly, spaced out, slow talking hippies that anyone pictures when they hear the word.

Of course, they are not the majority, but they certainly exist and are fair game for ridicule since they tend to draw attention away from real protestors.

 

[sp3000]

So basically you're saying I should be glad to work myself to death for two dollars an hour because workers in China and India without any kind of workplace protections are willing to do the same. Am I getting this right?

Nobody really cares whether you are glad to do it or not. What matters is that there are those who are, and there are always those who will be.


I would like to clarify that I support what this movement is doing. Some of the arguments in this thread are just hilariously naive though.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Also...

Cry all you want about evil capitalists but those Chinese and Indians are willing to work harder than you are.

I'd ask you to quantify exactly how they'd be working harder than me but then you're just going to say "well they're going to be working 120 hours a week and you're only going to be working 40-50" as if this is somehow a thing I shouldn't agitate against.

 

[ronito]

B) Massachusetts has the third highest state corporate taxes on financial firms (9.5% I believe) in the country. Such types of firms been having leaving Mass for decades due to it's suffocating tax structure and regulations- costing the state 10,000s of jobs.

Yeah. It's called the race to the bottom.

They will continue to leave to whoever can charge the lowest tax.

Silicon Valley exploded and everyone went to California. California upped taxes to deal with the infrastructure to support such a large influx. Companies said, "We have to pay what?" and left to Texas. Texas began upping corporate taxes to deal with the infrastructure influx and now companies are saying "We have to pay what?" and are starting to move to Oregon. In a few years they'll move from there to somewhere else.

Maybe it's me, but I don't view this game as ultimately sustainable.

 

[pj]

Here are some pictures I took at times square. Nothing particularly interesting, just an ass ton of people.

more:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pj530i/sets/72157627777205197/detail/

 

[Ether_Snake]

Look at all those people above who don't want jobs!

And I can go to some right wing web site and hear the same drivel by some guy who thinks the same revolution is coming every time he hears the tea party mentioned on the news. You know that drivel how the government is stripping away freedom and all that jazz. Same tune different party.

Only if your knowledge of history and social-economics goes as far as yesterday's.

It is absolutely undeniably inevitable that when the majority of the population loses its expected level of comfort, protests will ensue until a reversal of the situation occurs. This is an historical fact, it will not change for your own comfort.

If protests of which you are not taking part of makes you feel diminished, this is your problem.

What is certain is that the situation will be turned around, and considering that unlike the Tea Party, social justice is actually naturally favored by the majority, globally, it will continue to be demanded and obtained, just as it has been demanded and obtained continuously for over two hundred years, since the abolition of the monarchy.

A little lesson of history, local and global, should be enough to give you all the answers you'd rather not know of.

 

[richiek]

.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

this is the movement ive been waiting for; but now what? does it just hit a critical mass that if we just really, really want it, the embedded corruption just weeds itself out, or what?

will these issues be fixed so that the generation upcoming can afford to go to college without selling their souls?

we are already a lost generation, we're fucked as it is, but i hope what happens here can at least help for the future.

 

[Kevtones]

I don't think he's saying that it's right - it's just how it is. The landscape of American opportunity has changed and it's not going to come back in a world like this.

 

[Ether_Snake]

this is the movement ive been waiting for; but now what? does it just hit a critical mass that if we just really, really want it, the embedded corruption just weeds itself out, or what?

Protests grow, politicians will turn back their attention to the people away from lobbyists. That's how it works, and how it starts. Policies then follow.

 

[ronito]

this is the movement ive been waiting for; but now what? does it just hit a critical mass that if we just really, really want it, the embedded corruption just weeds itself out, or what?

It needs a Luther-type person to post an agreed upon list of grievances and demands. The movement now is more than just a fly by night kinda thing, but it needs to coalesce.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

I don't think he's saying that it's right - it's just how it is. The landscape of American opportunity has changed and it's not going to come back in a world like this.

without a doubt. we were in a priveleged place for a good 40 years, but that's not the point of this movement at all and you know this. You don't need to be the sole economy of the world after a devestating global conflict to not be laughably corrupt, provide basic services to your population rather than the service of 'fuck yous' as they take your house and move your job overseas

 

[Higgy]

Only if your knowledge of history and social-economics goes as far as yesterday's.

It is absolutely undeniably inevitable that when the majority of the population loses its expected level of comfort, protests will ensue until a reversal of the situation occurs, and only thanks to said protests. This is an historical fact, it will not change for your own comfort.

If protests of which you are not taking part of makes you feel diminished, this is your problem.

What is certain is that the situation will be turned around, and considering that unlike the Tea Party, social justice is actually naturally favored by the majority, it will continue to be demanded and obtained, just as it has been demanded and obtained continuously for over two hundred years, since the abolition of the monarchy.

A little lesson of history, local and global, should be enough to give you all the answers you'd rather not know of.

Jesus Christ... Are you a pompous asshole. I feel diminished because I'm not taking part in these protests? WTF?

I think you do make points but your arrogant "go read a fucking book you uneducated idiot" tone when discussing something is fucking lame. I get it, your the smartest guy in the room.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I don't think he's saying that it's right - it's just how it is. The landscape of American opportunity has changed and it's not going to come back in a world like this.

Welp, guess I need to use my capability as a dependent in the top 5% to move to a country with a better economic outlook then.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Protests grow, politicians will turn back their attention to the people away from lobbyists. That's how it works, and how it starts. Policies then follow.

i'm becoming of the opinion that the bandaid metaphor isn't going to work out; we need an amputation.

is the systematic fucked-ness of our interlinking systems so deep that we can really hope to simply 'fix' them? or build from the ground up? i mean our entire economy is based on speculation, fucking people over, and speculating on how to fuck people over. it's not exactly sustainable and relied greatly on post war momentum to keep going...

 

[XMonkey]

Social justice is such a broad term that get's thrown around a lot in regards to these protests but what exactly does that encompass? It's too vague to be solved by any single act of government so what do they mean by social justice? You can't possibly mean to take money from the rich and give it directly to the poor for those who earned their income through hard work and perseverance. Do they want communism? Or is this not about the individual and about the Corporations who make these people rich? I understand they're fed up with corruption but corporate can't be generalized in such a manner. Of course it exists in limited forms but how do you stop it? It takes so many shapes and forms.
Not taking sides in this and sorry if I sound ignorant, again, I haven't been following all this very closely. Just curious is all.

Regarding the bold specifically, I hope you aren't under the impression that those who are rich earned it through just hard work and perseverance. There are millions of low income people who work just as hard, if not harder because a lot of them do demanding manual labor, than those with more money. Wealth is often inherited, too. If you were born into a wealthy family, your chances of becoming wealthy yourself are increased dramatically. It's not as simple as "hey, you're rich because you worked hard" and it sounds like you're getting close to the "it isn't fair to tax rich people" argument, which isn't a very sound one to make, given the way our current tax system is structured.

Beyond that, I don't think a lot of people out there protesting want us to just take money from the rich and give it directly to the pockets of poor people. People aren't calling en masse for communism. But, a lot of people are upset with the fact that the poorer among us are being asked, often through no choice of their own, to sacrifice more than the wealthy in our society who have not nearly been as impacted as hard by the financial crisis. They see these same people on Wall St. who had a hand in the mess we're in getting rewarded with bail-outs of taxpayer money with little strings attached or any consequence for the people who ran these companies poorly and are seemingly rewarded for their wrongful actions. Even if the CEO is fired, he gets a golden parachute worth millions as well as the nice amount of stock he's had with the company. Those same companies that got bailed-out have made a turnaround and are back to making healthy profits, while the rest of us continue, for lack of a better term, to get shit on.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Jesus Christ... Are you a pompous asshole. I feel diminished because I'm not taking part in these protests? WTF?

I think you do make points but your arrogant "go read a fucking book you uneducated idiot" tone when discussing something is fucking lame. I get it, your the smartest guy in the room.

No, your tone towards the protests is excessively dismissive considering what it obviously represents. You don't like that the masses are outside making the effort to protest. You want to sit on a higher ground, so you try to bring them down below you, under masked ignorance.

i'm becoming of the opinion that the bandaid metaphor isn't going to work out; we need an amputation.

is the systematic fucked-ness of our interlinking systems so deep that we can really hope to simply 'fix' them? or build from the ground up? i mean our entire economy is based on speculation, fucking people over, and speculating on how to fuck people over. it's not exactly sustainable and relied greatly on post war momentum to keep going...

What you think is modern has been part of "the system" for a long time. We are in a better position than ever to turn things in favor of the middle class, because the middle class has never been this connected, especially on a global level, and our problems have never been so similar, again on a global level. Solutions found in one corner of the globe, if found to be efficient, can easily be applied elsewhere as well.

So yes, fixing things is how things will get done, because we've never had a bigger toolkit than we have today.

 

[akira28]

And I can go to some right wing web site and hear the same drivel by some guy who thinks the same revolution is coming every time he hears the tea party mentioned on the news. You know that drivel how the government is stripping away freedom and all that jazz. Same tune different party.

Except it isn't. The Financial crisis is due to the enablers of Wall Street, who have been for the most part Republicans. A few wealthy or soon to be wealthy Democrats like Clinton did the same, but for the whole, it's mainly the 30 year strategy of the Republican party played out in Congress, they won. It looked like a good thing even, but it very much wasn't. Private sector abused their freedom, it's only natural, almost innocent, almost. You'd like to think they just found their boundary, but they didn't. They're going to ride this pony into the sea to their waiting yachts, while we have to deal with the new global economy of trying to be equalized with the remainder of the developing world. White collar world may be content to let that happen to blue collar people, but I'm not. They told us America was going to be the white collar workforce of the world, years ago. I'm serious. We would be a data and information based society while the rest of the world became the manufacturing workforce that could build whatever we could imagine. This was back in the late 90s, I was a low level clerk then. This was Nafta era, they were still trying to sell it. They told us we didn't need to manufacture anymore. Computers were the future, etc, etc. Now the only available jobs are low level or high level service industry. They're always promoting executives. My last job, I've never seen so many goddamn Vice Presidents of this, that, or the other.

The difference is this affects all of us, and it isn't just someone's strong opinion about guns or religion. They toss that stuff up there and people jump and catch it like dogs while they send all of our jobs away. And we're left with peanuts, and they expect us to fight over them. In my mind's eye, I see American manufacturing plants, regulated competition internationally. You know they say they won't encourage people to buy American because they don't want a Trade War? A fucking Trade War? We had one with Japan, during the 70s-80s? We got some cool toys and cartoons out of it. The people who run this ship aren't worried about us, so we have to be wary. That's all this is. This is the start, people tend towards explaining things away, all of us are naturally like that, until we can't anymore. We're at that point, right now.

 

[Canadian Psycho]

How many of you have actual been to wall-street during this? Most of them are idiots who have no idea what they are doing or talking about. The others are people there for a "good time", smoking, hanging out, playing music. Only an EXTREMELY small percentage of people are knowledgeable and protesting for a reason. Most of them go there once, after work, for a couple hours.

The people that need to be protesting are to busy working 3 jobs to support themselves or their family. They don't have the time to sit on the sidewalk or in a park for three weeks doing nothing.

I am all for proper protests. I am all for old-school get shit done any way possible protests. However occupy wall street is the biggest load of shit I have ever seen. It gives "get a job you stupid hippie" true meaning.

Unless you have been there, please don't comment.

From afar, this is exactly the impression this protest gives me.

 

[XMonkey]

is the systematic fucked-ness of our interlinking systems so deep that we can really hope to simply 'fix' them? or build from the ground up? i mean our entire economy is based on speculation, fucking people over, and speculating on how to fuck people over. it's not exactly sustainable and relied greatly on post war momentum to keep going...

I'm still of the opinion that if we can get some strong changes to campaign finance and enact a meaningful barrier between moneyed interests and a politician, it will have a positive effect on the entire system. More than any other thing we could do (taxes, regulation, etc). A lot of our problems find their source in this subversion of democracy.