bill gonorrhea
Member
I took 746 pictures at the OccupySeattle rally today. After I sort through them and upload them Ill post some pics.
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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!
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SouthernDragon
Member
I missed the Miami Occupy... it lasted two hours.
wtf, latinos, wtf.
On the plus side, it was apparently massive; the setups I saw covered a rather large park, must have held at least 1000 people.
wtf, latinos, wtf.
On the plus side, it was apparently massive; the setups I saw covered a rather large park, must have held at least 1000 people.
SouthernDragon
Member
I'm being self-deprecatingly racist and implying that Latinos can't plan a serious movement in Miami.richiek said:
I do not mean to actually retract from the successful Occupy Miami, and only wish I could have been there (busted car + shit public transport = SouthernDragon not getting there on time).
SlipperySlope
Banned
akira28 said:
I base it on what I've read on the Internet, the news, that Opie and Anthony thing, personal experience, and well, this thread.
This thread itself isn't really specific, from my limited time here.
Ether_Snake said:
I already paid my mortgage in full. So looks like I'm the only one laughing.
Yes, English isn't my first language. My statement still stands
Apparently reading comprehension isn't either.
I'm glad to see your getting emotional and angry. It's a laugh. Read up on globalization and learn some basic economics and read my post again.
How is 'we are pissed off' not a message?
Why do they need to be specific? Maybe I am crazy, but there are more than enough things to be pissed off about without needing to go into specifics or listing them. And I think the fact that they occupied wall st, is pretty obviously indicative of what their main problem is >_<
Read up on 'globalisation' lol, good one. Next up, tell someone to 'read up on history' or 'shoes'.
Also I love that you got 'emotional or angry' from that post, when it is so clearly not.
Why do they need to be specific? Maybe I am crazy, but there are more than enough things to be pissed off about without needing to go into specifics or listing them. And I think the fact that they occupied wall st, is pretty obviously indicative of what their main problem is >_<
Read up on 'globalisation' lol, good one. Next up, tell someone to 'read up on history' or 'shoes'.
Also I love that you got 'emotional or angry' from that post, when it is so clearly not.
eBay Huckster
Member
hey it's you again!!! you still haven't quantified exactly what makes the work of non-Americans harder than mine in the same occupationsp3000 said:
(is it the hours? i bet it's the hours)
how about something like this:
We Want Fairness
Our nation is broken. We all know this. The gap between rich and poor is the widest since 1917, and growing. Our legal and political systems have been twisted to favor the wealthy and powerful. Washington State has the most regressive tax laws in the union, with the lowest wage-earners paying taxes at nearly seven times the rate of the top one percent. We want everyone to have the opportunity to enjoy the rights our Constitution promises, and to pay their fair share toward sustaining a working America.
We Want Justice
Wall Street caused the financial collapse. They are the ones who are responsible, yet they are the ones who got bailed out in 2009. Now, Wall Street needs to stop foreclosing on our homes, and start helping to bail us out. Washington Mutuals suicidal recklessness nearly destroyed our states economy in 2008, and now Chase shows the same sociopathic lack of respect for Washington State homeowners, small businesses, and consumers. The laws that control the financial industry are insane. Wall Street needs to be properly regulated, its victims need to be made whole, and the banksters who committed financial fraud and other crimes need to be prosecuted.
We Want Jobs
Tax cuts, bailouts, cheap money, low interests ratesthats been our governments response to the economic crisis. And where are the jobs corporate America promised to create with the record profits generated by these pro-business policies? In low-wage markets overseas! Meanwhile, tens of millions of formerly middle-class Americans remain unemployed. It is time to put Americans back to work rebuilding America, creating good jobs at good wages building the roads, rail, bridges, schools and other crucial public infrastructure we desperately need. And it is time for corporate America to help pay the bill.
We Want Fairness
Our nation is broken. We all know this. The gap between rich and poor is the widest since 1917, and growing. Our legal and political systems have been twisted to favor the wealthy and powerful. Washington State has the most regressive tax laws in the union, with the lowest wage-earners paying taxes at nearly seven times the rate of the top one percent. We want everyone to have the opportunity to enjoy the rights our Constitution promises, and to pay their fair share toward sustaining a working America.
We Want Justice
Wall Street caused the financial collapse. They are the ones who are responsible, yet they are the ones who got bailed out in 2009. Now, Wall Street needs to stop foreclosing on our homes, and start helping to bail us out. Washington Mutuals suicidal recklessness nearly destroyed our states economy in 2008, and now Chase shows the same sociopathic lack of respect for Washington State homeowners, small businesses, and consumers. The laws that control the financial industry are insane. Wall Street needs to be properly regulated, its victims need to be made whole, and the banksters who committed financial fraud and other crimes need to be prosecuted.
We Want Jobs
Tax cuts, bailouts, cheap money, low interests ratesthats been our governments response to the economic crisis. And where are the jobs corporate America promised to create with the record profits generated by these pro-business policies? In low-wage markets overseas! Meanwhile, tens of millions of formerly middle-class Americans remain unemployed. It is time to put Americans back to work rebuilding America, creating good jobs at good wages building the roads, rail, bridges, schools and other crucial public infrastructure we desperately need. And it is time for corporate America to help pay the bill.
SlipperySlope
Banned
markot said:
Every single person in the country is pissed off about something. That's why you need your message to be more specific. I'm not going to march with somebody who is pissed off about X if I'm pissed off about Y.
IrishNinja
Member
SouthernDragon said:
yeah, i was stuck here at work but a friend said it was huge, for our lazy numbers. local hip-hop radio always clowns on the fact that only kanye & shit can get more than 50k people to come out at the same time, hahaha. oh, or when the heat win.
richiek said:
as an aside: yes, to the latter, but not always.
SouthernDragon said:
god, we've gotta be the biggest city with the shittiest transport in the US.
coldvein said:
They are never going to be able to do this. There's too many niche groups involved holding up signs for other things - even though they may all agree on "Wall Street/Corporations/Corporate money in politics bad", their pet causes will always be more important to them. That AP article I posted is a prime example of this - too many people, too many disparate causes, no consensus.
They have a message, but the clear point of everything, the media, is to muddle it, you ask 10 people what their message is and you get 10 different replies. Big surprise?
Its called diluting a message by pretending it doesnt exist. It does, its pretty damn clear to most people, only those who are against it are trying to pretend it doesnt exist. 'lol wat they want?!'
And there clearly is consensus. Its why they are all in freaking wall street to begin with. Whats it symbolise? Hmmmm I cant figure it out! So lets all pretend we suddenly dont understand symbolism and pretend that just because they all dont sing from the same song book, that they are just a bunch of people who dont know why they are even there lol!
Its called diluting a message by pretending it doesnt exist. It does, its pretty damn clear to most people, only those who are against it are trying to pretend it doesnt exist. 'lol wat they want?!'
And there clearly is consensus. Its why they are all in freaking wall street to begin with. Whats it symbolise? Hmmmm I cant figure it out! So lets all pretend we suddenly dont understand symbolism and pretend that just because they all dont sing from the same song book, that they are just a bunch of people who dont know why they are even there lol!
SlipperySlope said:
That's a lot of sources. Have you been down to http://occupywallst.org/ or http://occupydc.org/about-us/ yet?
And more importantly, my friend, what do you want to march over?
ReBurn
Gold Member
That's what I would think. Sooner or later "pissed off" needs to coalesce into something common that people can work toward changing. Right now the reaction to "pissed off" is "who cares?" and that's not likely to change until there is something cohesive. Most of the time people just have to get over "pissed off" and actually focus enough to do something about it.coldvein said:
Biff
Member
So you're basically saying it's okay for an organization to operate without leadership? Because that's what's happening right now.akira28 said:
Why did they begin these protests in the middle of September? What the hell were they thinking? Better get it done before it gets cold outside?
It's completely inexcusable and, at the same time, a wonderful metaphor for my generation. Steve Jobs was part of the 1%. So is Bill Gates. So is Warren Buffet. Yet they have done things, and given more to charity, than the tent city protestors will ever give or contribute in their entire existence. And yet they are lumped together as the people who are enslaving civilization?
Microsoft employs 90,000 people. Apple employs 50,000 people. Berkshire Hathaway employs 276,000 people. Three people are responsible for providing sustainable income to over 400,000 people. Upon Warren Buffets death, he will pass on nearly $40 Billion to charity.
So yes, we have every right to criticize these fools for not having a unified message or leadership. They are haphazardly machine gun spraying the rich as terrible people, the government as corrupt and corporations as evil. These are children who have an opportunity to feel as though their existence is worthwhile, and yet don't fully understand what exactly they are trying to achieve.
lol?Enron said:
In what world do you live in where media isnt biased? The whole damn point of media originally and to this day, has been to be biased.
When someone started a newspaper, what did they want to do? Nothing? Or 'bias' opinion in their favour? What do you think pampletters were doing, the original op eds. And all media and news is biased, its the nature of the beast. Claiming it is anything but shows a complete lack of understanding of what the whole point of the beast is there for.
SlipperySlope
Banned
akira28 said:
If I were to march, it would be to get Jerry fucking Brown out of office, cut California government spending massively, get the state budget in order, and lower California taxes. I don't really care about federal issues ATM.
markot said:
Yeah, what the fuck do I know. I only worked in broadcasting (including 2 news departments) for 6 years.
Uh, I DIDN'T say mass media wasn't biased. I said it was biased towards money. Giving the people what they want to hear, and charging advertisers rates based on the # of eyes/ears/minds they can deliver the message to.
Certain commercial mass media outlets might have a political bias one way or the other (see Fox, but even then they are just tapping into a market), but mass media as a whole exists to make money. Not to give right wingers or left wingers the warm fuzzies.
onadesertedisland
Member
End easy outsourcing. Make it costly for corporations to outsource jobs (tariffs or taxes).
Make this retro-active so the jobs that are outsourced, it becomes a better bargain to bring them back.
Get rid of the bankruptcy law that forbids student loan debt to be restructured.
End corporate donations to any politician or PAC or anything else used to circumvent illegal donations.
End loopholes of the wealthy regarding income. We all know most wealthy people are not receiving huge payroll checks, rather other forms of income which are not taxed fairly.
Offer government re-financing of variable home mortgages where the jump in interest is causing the homeowner to default.
Bring the troops home by the end of the year.
Spend on schools, not government contractors.
Fix NCLB or get rid of it.
Regulate banks more closely to mitigate risks.
Make this retro-active so the jobs that are outsourced, it becomes a better bargain to bring them back.
Get rid of the bankruptcy law that forbids student loan debt to be restructured.
End corporate donations to any politician or PAC or anything else used to circumvent illegal donations.
End loopholes of the wealthy regarding income. We all know most wealthy people are not receiving huge payroll checks, rather other forms of income which are not taxed fairly.
Offer government re-financing of variable home mortgages where the jump in interest is causing the homeowner to default.
Bring the troops home by the end of the year.
Spend on schools, not government contractors.
Fix NCLB or get rid of it.
Regulate banks more closely to mitigate risks.
jchap
Member
XMonkey said:
Wealth is built on differentiation. When you have a unique skill which is in demand, you can command more resources. Manual labor is about as undifferentiated as it comes. Any able bodied person can do it. Those that must resort to this kind of work have made poor life decisions and have not developed a marketable skill. They may work hard, but in most cases, they simply haven't managed their life correctly. In fact, many who go to college, simply go through the motions and end up without any defining attributes other than a diploma. Going through the motions will almost never lead to anything prosperous.
Being born into a good situation is certainly advantageous, but it is by no means a prerequisites to being successful. In fact, it could be argued it is not the wealth, as much as it is the stable environment which breeds more successful people. The biggest factor is success is responsible behavior and hard work beginning at a young age to work towards developing useful skills. When people say "hard work" this is what they mean.
eBay Huckster
Member
sp3000 said:
Then somehow I get the feeling I (and, for that matter, every other American poster in here) would understand the intricacies of the American economy better than you.
(whatev, I'm going to be one of these career politicians in twenty years anyway so what do I care about the USA getting a competitive advantage anywhere)
SlipperySlope
Banned
What's amazing are Indian programmers. For $4 an hour they can live like kings and even have maids.
Ether_Snake
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sp3000 said:
Stop judging an entire person without having ever met him!
Um, its not just biased towards money, it is always biased towards its own survival, its own corporations message and needs.
Getting ratings is one way of making money. These are massive corporations these days, with many more interests than 'ratings'. They have political leanings, 'foundational' issues which make them lean one way or another, all sorts of things that add to the bias within them, they are indeed these days part of the power structure, not seperate from it. Thats one of the big problems there, and they aint going to do anything to but that line between those in power and themselves. To the extent where they can be little more than PR pieces for x and y and no longer the 'guardian' of public interests that they were hyped up as by morons.
Money is just one issue, and not the biggest.
News corporation papers all over the world supported the Iraq war. Journalists in the NY times hyped up extremely dubious WMD claims.
They are entangled in the web the protestors want to clean off, they are as much a part of the problem as the government. They have an interest in this fight, and it aint on the protestors side.
Getting ratings is one way of making money. These are massive corporations these days, with many more interests than 'ratings'. They have political leanings, 'foundational' issues which make them lean one way or another, all sorts of things that add to the bias within them, they are indeed these days part of the power structure, not seperate from it. Thats one of the big problems there, and they aint going to do anything to but that line between those in power and themselves. To the extent where they can be little more than PR pieces for x and y and no longer the 'guardian' of public interests that they were hyped up as by morons.
Money is just one issue, and not the biggest.
News corporation papers all over the world supported the Iraq war. Journalists in the NY times hyped up extremely dubious WMD claims.
They are entangled in the web the protestors want to clean off, they are as much a part of the problem as the government. They have an interest in this fight, and it aint on the protestors side.
Race to the bottom.sp3000 said:
I see it even with my company.
America's too expensive! We're starting offices in India.
<two years later>
India's too expensive we're closing up there and moving to China!
<now>
China's getting too expensive! Let's start looking at the philipines.
eBay Huckster
Member
sp3000 said:
After which new corporations in their respective sectors will simply form in the United States to fill in the vacuum left by the corporations that left.
That's the beauty of...
FREE MARKETS!
someone help me out i'm not good at this ironic cheerleading thing
sp3000 said:
This is ignorance. My parents bought a home during the sub-prime boom. The mortgage amount was completely affordable and they had no problems meeting their payments until the banks started selling these mortgages to each other. Seven years and many banks later the monthly payment was now 250% of what is was to begin with. They have managed and still have their home, but I don't see how it would have been their fault if they had defaulted. They, like many other unsuspecting homeowners, did not sign up to become the ball in the banks' mortgage ping-pong games.
sp3000 said:
Deny them access to the US market. Problem solved. Oh, wait - the government would never do that, because it would actually be benefiting the people who they're supposed to be serving and not their corporate masters. And therein lies the entire problem with the US these days.
Lots of people bought houses in a bubble, take out a loan on buying a house at 400k that is now worth 250k, and you have yourself whats known as a dilemma.
And for some reason, people like buying houses. Its like 'shelter' is a basic human need or something. Freaking greedy asses.
And for some reason, people like buying houses. Its like 'shelter' is a basic human need or something. Freaking greedy asses.
onadesertedisland
Member
There must be a moment where a country chooses self preservation over the idea of a tariff free market. This is that time.sp3000 said:
ReBurn
Gold Member
I've been there. The people protesting on Wall Street have nothing in common with the poor in India. Maybe if after a hard day of protesting they went home to a slum made of rotting wood and rusted metal with no clean water to drink and little food to eat they might. Except the people in India are too busy trying to survive to protest.sp3000 said:
But you guys are confusing two issues. It isn't just about how hard someone works. At least in America you have a chance to improve your own condition. That can't be said for every other country. Sometimes protesting helps accomplish that. Let's see if it helps this time.
sp3000 clearly has a point. "Social justice" isn't simply that Americans get to share their wealth more evenly among themselves. The American system clearly has problems, and so I sympathise with the protesters, but the American people have been happy to reap the rewards of severe global inequality for a long time. On a global level, America is the one percent. I hope the protesters are also willing to fight the living and working conditions of the billions of people from China, India, Brasil, and Indonesia.
Also, it's a shame that you guys are being so defensive. You're not going to persuade many people of your cause by abusing them.
Also, it's a shame that you guys are being so defensive. You're not going to persuade many people of your cause by abusing them.
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