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[bill gonorrhea]

I took 746 pictures at the OccupySeattle rally today. After I sort through them and upload them Ill post some pics.

 

[SouthernDragon]

I missed the Miami Occupy... it lasted two hours.

wtf, latinos, wtf.

On the plus side, it was apparently massive; the setups I saw covered a rather large park, must have held at least 1000 people.

 

[coldvein]

I took 746 pictures at the OccupySeattle rally today. After I sort through them and upload them Ill post some pics.

please do. been wanting to go down there myself.

 

[richiek]

I missed the Miami Occupy... it lasted two hours.

wtf, latinos, wtf.

On the plus side, it was apparently massive; the setups I saw covered a rather large park, must have held at least 1000 people.

Do you mean that there was a lack of Latinos? Aren't Cubans in Miami predominantly conservative compared to other Latinos?

 

[ReBurn]

Just read the latest on wiki about this. Maybe people will be able to affect the change that they seek.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Do you mean that there was a lack of Latinos? Aren't Cubans in Miami predominantly conservative compared to other Latinos?

I'm being self-deprecatingly racist and implying that Latinos can't plan a serious movement in Miami.

I do not mean to actually retract from the successful Occupy Miami, and only wish I could have been there (busted car + shit public transport = SouthernDragon not getting there on time).

 

[SlipperySlope]

Slip, do you think that some of the larger movements might actually have plans and aims and goals? Or that they might be in development and that they will seriously pursue them? Or will you base your idea of the entire movement on whatever kid decided to actually speak to news reporters, or some dude you spoke to at a 10 person rally in Irvine?

I base it on what I've read on the Internet, the news, that Opie and Anthony thing, personal experience, and well, this thread.

This thread itself isn't really specific, from my limited time here.

 

[coldvein]

it'd be really helpful if the whole movement could just focus on a few key issues so everybody could shut up with the "WHATS UR MESSAGE DURRR""..

 

[sp3000]

Please let us known when you foreclose. So we can laugh.

I already paid my mortgage in full. So looks like I'm the only one laughing.

Yes, English isn't my first language. My statement still stands

Apparently reading comprehension isn't either.

hey sp3000 if rich get rich because they work harder, and you say people in china and india work far harder than anyone in America why aren't the Chinese and Indians filthy rich?

I'm glad to see your getting emotional and angry. It's a laugh. Read up on globalization and learn some basic economics and read my post again.

 

[markot]

How is 'we are pissed off' not a message?

Why do they need to be specific? Maybe I am crazy, but there are more than enough things to be pissed off about without needing to go into specifics or listing them. And I think the fact that they occupied wall st, is pretty obviously indicative of what their main problem is >_<

Read up on 'globalisation' lol, good one. Next up, tell someone to 'read up on history' or 'shoes'.

Also I love that you got 'emotional or angry' from that post, when it is so clearly not.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Read up on globalization and learn some basic economics and read my post again.

hey it's you again!!! you still haven't quantified exactly what makes the work of non-Americans harder than mine in the same occupation

(is it the hours? i bet it's the hours)

 

[coldvein]

How is 'we are pissed off' not a message?

Why do they need to be specific? Maybe I am crazy, but there are more than enough things to be pissed off about without needing to go into specifics or listing them. And I think the fact that they occupied wall st, is pretty obviously indicative of what their main problem is >_<

"we are pissed off" is a great message. especially when it's coming from damn near everywhere right now. the evolution of that message, though, has to be "we are pissed off and we want X to change". right?

 

[coldvein]

how about something like this:

We Want Fairness
Our nation is broken. We all know this. The gap between rich and poor is the widest since 1917, and growing. Our legal and political systems have been twisted to favor the wealthy and powerful. Washington State has the most regressive tax laws in the union, with the lowest wage-earners paying taxes at nearly seven times the rate of the top one percent. We want everyone to have the opportunity to enjoy the rights our Constitution promises, and to pay their fair share toward sustaining a working America.

We Want Justice
Wall Street caused the financial collapse. They are the ones who are responsible, yet they are the ones who got bailed out in 2009. Now, Wall Street needs to stop foreclosing on our homes, and start helping to bail us out. Washington Mutual’s suicidal recklessness nearly destroyed our state’s economy in 2008, and now Chase shows the same sociopathic lack of respect for Washington State homeowners, small businesses, and consumers. The laws that control the financial industry are insane. Wall Street needs to be properly regulated, its victims need to be made whole, and the banksters who committed financial fraud and other crimes need to be prosecuted.

We Want Jobs
Tax cuts, bailouts, cheap money, low interests rates—that’s been our government’s response to the economic crisis. And where are the jobs corporate America promised to create with the record profits generated by these pro-business policies? In low-wage markets overseas! Meanwhile, tens of millions of formerly middle-class Americans remain unemployed. It is time to put Americans back to work rebuilding America, creating good jobs at good wages building the roads, rail, bridges, schools and other crucial public infrastructure we desperately need. And it is time for corporate America to help pay the bill.

 

[SlipperySlope]

How is 'we are pissed off' not a message?

Why do they need to be specific? Maybe I am crazy, but there are more than enough things to be pissed off about without needing to go into specifics or listing them. And I think the fact that they occupied wall st, is pretty obviously indicative of what their main problem is >_<

Read up on 'globalisation' lol, good one. Next up, tell someone to 'read up on history' or 'shoes'.

Also I love that you got 'emotional or angry' from that post, when it is so clearly not.

Every single person in the country is pissed off about something. That's why you need your message to be more specific. I'm not going to march with somebody who is pissed off about X if I'm pissed off about Y.

 

[IrishNinja]

I missed the Miami Occupy... it lasted two hours.

wtf, latinos, wtf.

On the plus side, it was apparently massive; the setups I saw covered a rather large park, must have held at least 1000 people.

yeah, i was stuck here at work but a friend said it was huge, for our lazy numbers. local hip-hop radio always clowns on the fact that only kanye & shit can get more than 50k people to come out at the same time, hahaha. oh, or when the heat win.

Do you mean that there was a lack of Latinos? Aren't Cubans in Miami predominantly conservative compared to other Latinos?

as an aside: yes, to the latter, but not always.

(busted car + shit public transport = SouthernDragon not getting there on time).

god, we've gotta be the biggest city with the shittiest transport in the US.

 

[Enron]

it'd be really helpful if the whole movement could just focus on a few key issues so everybody could shut up with the "WHATS UR MESSAGE DURRR""..

They are never going to be able to do this. There's too many niche groups involved holding up signs for other things - even though they may all agree on "Wall Street/Corporations/Corporate money in politics bad", their pet causes will always be more important to them. That AP article I posted is a prime example of this - too many people, too many disparate causes, no consensus.

 

[ronito]

I'm glad to see your getting emotional and angry. It's a laugh. Read up on globalization and learn some basic economics and read my post again.

I ain't even mad. Just calling a stupid spade a stupid spade.

Maybe you'd understand this better if I had someone from china or india explain it to you.

 

[markot]

They have a message, but the clear point of everything, the media, is to muddle it, you ask 10 people what their message is and you get 10 different replies. Big surprise?

Its called diluting a message by pretending it doesnt exist. It does, its pretty damn clear to most people, only those who are against it are trying to pretend it doesnt exist. 'lol wat they want?!'

And there clearly is consensus. Its why they are all in freaking wall street to begin with. Whats it symbolise? Hmmmm I cant figure it out! So lets all pretend we suddenly dont understand symbolism and pretend that just because they all dont sing from the same song book, that they are just a bunch of people who dont know why they are even there lol!

 

[akira28]

I base it on what I've read on the Internet, the news, that Opie and Anthony thing, personal experience, and well, this thread.

This thread itself isn't really specific, from my limited time here.

That's a lot of sources. Have you been down to http://occupywallst.org/ or http://occupydc.org/about-us/ yet?

And more importantly, my friend, what do you want to march over?

 

[coldvein]

everyone in all of these mobs agrees on certain key issues.

 

[ReBurn]

"we are pissed off" is a great message. especially when it's coming from damn near everywhere right now. the evolution of that message, though, has to be "we are pissed off and we want X to change". right?

That's what I would think. Sooner or later "pissed off" needs to coalesce into something common that people can work toward changing. Right now the reaction to "pissed off" is "who cares?" and that's not likely to change until there is something cohesive. Most of the time people just have to get over "pissed off" and actually focus enough to do something about it.

 

[Enron]

They have a message, but the clear point of everything, the media, is to muddle it, you ask 10 people what their message is and you get 10 different replies. Big surprise?

Its called diluting a message by pretending it doesnt exist. It does, its pretty damn clear to most people, only those who are against it are trying to pretend it doesnt exist. 'lol wat they want?!'

Right Wing cries: "Media bias!"

Left Wing cries: "Media bias!"

There's only one thing media is biased about: Money. They will go wherever the story goes. Whatever makes people tune in. These protests don't seem to yet interest the average American.

 

[Biff]

Slip, do you think that some of the larger movements might actually have plans and aims and goals? Or that they might be in development and that they will seriously pursue them? Or will you base your idea of the entire movement on whatever kid decided to actually speak to news reporters, or some dude you spoke to at a 10 person rally in Irvine?

So you're basically saying it's okay for an organization to operate without leadership? Because that's what's happening right now.

Why did they begin these protests in the middle of September? What the hell were they thinking? Better get it done before it gets cold outside?

It's completely inexcusable and, at the same time, a wonderful metaphor for my generation. Steve Jobs was part of the 1%. So is Bill Gates. So is Warren Buffet. Yet they have done things, and given more to charity, than the tent city protestors will ever give or contribute in their entire existence. And yet they are lumped together as the people who are enslaving civilization?

Microsoft employs 90,000 people. Apple employs 50,000 people. Berkshire Hathaway employs 276,000 people. Three people are responsible for providing sustainable income to over 400,000 people. Upon Warren Buffets death, he will pass on nearly $40 Billion to charity.

So yes, we have every right to criticize these fools for not having a unified message or leadership. They are haphazardly machine gun spraying the rich as terrible people, the government as corrupt and corporations as evil. These are children who have an opportunity to feel as though their existence is worthwhile, and yet don't fully understand what exactly they are trying to achieve.

 

[ronito]

So you're basically saying it's okay for an organization to operate without leadership?

Umm hello? The democrats have been doing this for ages.

 

[markot]

Right Wing cries: "Media bias!"

Left Wing cries: "Media bias!"

There's only one thing media is biased about: Money. They will go wherever the story goes. Whatever makes people tune in. These protests don't seem to yet interest the average American.

lol?

In what world do you live in where media isnt biased? The whole damn point of media originally and to this day, has been to be biased.

When someone started a newspaper, what did they want to do? Nothing? Or 'bias' opinion in their favour? What do you think pampletters were doing, the original op eds. And all media and news is biased, its the nature of the beast. Claiming it is anything but shows a complete lack of understanding of what the whole point of the beast is there for.

 

[SlipperySlope]

That's a lot of sources. Have you been down to http://occupywallst.org/ or http://occupydc.org/about-us/ yet?

And more importantly, my friend, what do you want to march over?

If I were to march, it would be to get Jerry fucking Brown out of office, cut California government spending massively, get the state budget in order, and lower California taxes. I don't really care about federal issues ATM.

 

[sp3000]

I ain't even mad. Just calling a stupid spade a stupid spade.

Maybe you'd understand this better if I had someone from china or india explain it to you.

I'm Indian and have lived in India for a year. I think I understand it better than you

 

[markot]

I'm Indian and have lived in India for a year. I think I understand it better than you

Wish all those wretchedly poor people in India worked harder eh? Its like they love living in filth or something!

 

[Enron]

lol?

In what world do you live in where media isnt biased? The whole damn point of media originally and to this day, has been to be biased.

When someone started a newspaper, what did they want to do? Nothing? Or 'bias' opinion in their favour? What do you think pampletters were doing, the original op eds. And all media and news is biased, its the nature of the beast. Claiming it is anything but shows a complete lack of understanding of what the whole point of the beast is there for.

Yeah, what the fuck do I know. I only worked in broadcasting (including 2 news departments) for 6 years.

Uh, I DIDN'T say mass media wasn't biased. I said it was biased towards money. Giving the people what they want to hear, and charging advertisers rates based on the # of eyes/ears/minds they can deliver the message to.

Certain commercial mass media outlets might have a political bias one way or the other (see Fox, but even then they are just tapping into a market), but mass media as a whole exists to make money. Not to give right wingers or left wingers the warm fuzzies.

 

[onadesertedisland]

End easy outsourcing. Make it costly for corporations to outsource jobs (tariffs or taxes).
Make this retro-active so the jobs that are outsourced, it becomes a better bargain to bring them back.

Get rid of the bankruptcy law that forbids student loan debt to be restructured.

End corporate donations to any politician or PAC or anything else used to circumvent illegal donations.

End loopholes of the wealthy regarding income. We all know most wealthy people are not receiving huge payroll checks, rather other forms of income which are not taxed fairly.

Offer government re-financing of variable home mortgages where the jump in interest is causing the homeowner to default.

Bring the troops home by the end of the year.

Spend on schools, not government contractors.

Fix NCLB or get rid of it.

Regulate banks more closely to mitigate risks.

 

[jchap]

Regarding the bold specifically, I hope you aren't under the impression that those who are rich earned it through just hard work and perseverance. There are millions of low income people who work just as hard, if not harder because a lot of them do demanding manual labor, than those with more money. Wealth is often inherited, too. If you were born into a wealthy family, your chances of becoming wealthy yourself are increased dramatically. It's not as simple as "hey, you're rich because you worked hard" and it sounds like you're getting close to the "it isn't fair to tax rich people" argument, which isn't a very sound one to make, given the way our current tax system is structured.

Wealth is built on differentiation. When you have a unique skill which is in demand, you can command more resources. Manual labor is about as undifferentiated as it comes. Any able bodied person can do it. Those that must resort to this kind of work have made poor life decisions and have not developed a marketable skill. They may work hard, but in most cases, they simply haven't managed their life correctly. In fact, many who go to college, simply go through the motions and end up without any defining attributes other than a diploma. Going through the motions will almost never lead to anything prosperous.

Being born into a good situation is certainly advantageous, but it is by no means a prerequisites to being successful. In fact, it could be argued it is not the wealth, as much as it is the stable environment which breeds more successful people. The biggest factor is success is responsible behavior and hard work beginning at a young age to work towards developing useful skills. When people say "hard work" this is what they mean.

 

[sp3000]

Wish all those wretchedly poor people in India worked harder eh? Its like they love living in filth or something!

Your ignorance is hilarious as always. Keep judging an entire country without having ever been there.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I'm Indian and have lived in India for a year. I think I understand it better than you

Then somehow I get the feeling I (and, for that matter, every other American poster in here) would understand the intricacies of the American economy better than you.

(whatev, I'm going to be one of these career politicians in twenty years anyway so what do I care about the USA getting a competitive advantage anywhere)

 

[ronito]

End easy outsourcing. Make it costly for corporations to outsource jobs (tariffs or taxes).

The government has actually started doing this a little making H1Bs more difficult to attain. Which lead to a great quote I heard this week, "Yeah if we hire citizens they want to be paid well, and demand career development and stuff."

The horror!

 

[SlipperySlope]

What's amazing are Indian programmers. For $4 an hour they can live like kings and even have maids.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Your ignorance is hilarious as always. Keep judging an entire country without having ever been there.

Stop judging an entire person without having ever met him!

 

[sp3000]

End easy outsourcing. Make it costly for corporations to outsource jobs

Then corporations would simply move overseas. Great thinking there.

Then somehow I get the feeling I (and, for that matter, every other American poster in here) would understand the intricacies of the American economy better than you.

(whatev, I'm going to be one of these career politicians in twenty years anyway so what do I care about the USA getting a competitive advantage anywhere)

I was born and raised in this country, so try your racism somewhere else

 

[Enron]

What's amazing are Indian programmers. For $4 an hour they can live like kings and even have maids.

Some of the Indians I work with remotely have their own drivers.

 

[markot]

Um, its not just biased towards money, it is always biased towards its own survival, its own corporations message and needs.

Getting ratings is one way of making money. These are massive corporations these days, with many more interests than 'ratings'. They have political leanings, 'foundational' issues which make them lean one way or another, all sorts of things that add to the bias within them, they are indeed these days part of the power structure, not seperate from it. Thats one of the big problems there, and they aint going to do anything to but that line between those in power and themselves. To the extent where they can be little more than PR pieces for x and y and no longer the 'guardian' of public interests that they were hyped up as by morons.

Money is just one issue, and not the biggest.

News corporation papers all over the world supported the Iraq war. Journalists in the NY times hyped up extremely dubious WMD claims.

They are entangled in the web the protestors want to clean off, they are as much a part of the problem as the government. They have an interest in this fight, and it aint on the protestors side.

 

[ronito]

Then corporations would simply move overseas. Great thinking there.

Race to the bottom.
I see it even with my company.

America's too expensive! We're starting offices in India.

<two years later>

India's too expensive we're closing up there and moving to China!

<now>

China's getting too expensive! Let's start looking at the philipines.

 

[markot]

Your ignorance is hilarious as always. Keep judging an entire country without having ever been there.

So the people living in filth in India and in desperate poverty. Do they not work hard enough? I am just trying to understand why they are so poor. Why not explain it to me since you are Indian?

 

[eBay Huckster]

Then corporations would simply move overseas. Great thinking there.

After which new corporations in their respective sectors will simply form in the United States to fill in the vacuum left by the corporations that left.

That's the beauty of...

FREE MARKETS!

Spoiler

someone help me out i'm not good at this ironic cheerleading thing

 

[WowBaby]

alpha, do you realize those idiots who couldn't pay for their homes and lost them are part of why this financial collapse started.

This is ignorance. My parents bought a home during the sub-prime boom. The mortgage amount was completely affordable and they had no problems meeting their payments until the banks started selling these mortgages to each other. Seven years and many banks later the monthly payment was now 250% of what is was to begin with. They have managed and still have their home, but I don't see how it would have been their fault if they had defaulted. They, like many other unsuspecting homeowners, did not sign up to become the ball in the banks' mortgage ping-pong games.

 

[Loki]

Then corporations would simply move overseas. Great thinking there.

Deny them access to the US market. Problem solved. Oh, wait - the government would never do that, because it would actually be benefiting the people who they're supposed to be serving and not their corporate masters. And therein lies the entire problem with the US these days.

 

[ronito]

This is ignorance. My parents bought a home during the sub-prime boom. The mortgage amount was completely affordable and they had no problems meeting their payments until the banks started selling these mortgages to each other. Seven years and many banks later the monthly payment was now 250% of what is was to begin with. They have managed and still have their home, but I don't see how it would have been their fault if they had defaulted. They, like many other unsuspecting homeowners, did not sign up to become the ball in the banks' mortgage ping-pong games.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. I bet you're not even from India.

 

[markot]

Lots of people bought houses in a bubble, take out a loan on buying a house at 400k that is now worth 250k, and you have yourself whats known as a dilemma.

And for some reason, people like buying houses. Its like 'shelter' is a basic human need or something. Freaking greedy asses.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Then corporations would simply move overseas. Great thinking there.





I was born and raised in this country, so try your racism somewhere else junior.

There must be a moment where a country chooses self preservation over the idea of a tariff free market. This is that time.

 

[Enron]

Um, its not just biased towards money, it is always biased towards its own survival, its own corporations message and needs.

Getting ratings is one way of making money. These are massive corporations these days, with many more interests than 'ratings'. They have political leanings, 'foundational' issues which make them lean one way or another, all sorts of things that add to the bias within them, they are indeed these days part of the power structure, not seperate from it. Thats one of the big problems there, and they aint going to do anything to but that line between those in power and themselves. To the extent where they can be little more than PR pieces for x and y and no longer the 'guardian' of public interests that they were hyped up as by morons.

Money is just one issue, and not the biggest.

News corporation papers all over the world supported the Iraq war. Journalists in the NY times hyped up extremely dubious WMD claims.

They are entangled in the web the protestors want to clean off, they are as much a part of the problem as the government. They have an interest in this fight, and it aint on the protestors side.

ITT: People who don't know anything about how commercial media actually works tries to lecture someone who worked in it for years.

 

[ReBurn]

Your ignorance is hilarious as always. Keep judging an entire country without having ever been there.

I've been there. The people protesting on Wall Street have nothing in common with the poor in India. Maybe if after a hard day of protesting they went home to a slum made of rotting wood and rusted metal with no clean water to drink and little food to eat they might. Except the people in India are too busy trying to survive to protest.

But you guys are confusing two issues. It isn't just about how hard someone works. At least in America you have a chance to improve your own condition. That can't be said for every other country. Sometimes protesting helps accomplish that. Let's see if it helps this time.

 

[areal]

sp3000 clearly has a point. "Social justice" isn't simply that Americans get to share their wealth more evenly among themselves. The American system clearly has problems, and so I sympathise with the protesters, but the American people have been happy to reap the rewards of severe global inequality for a long time. On a global level, America is the one percent. I hope the protesters are also willing to fight the living and working conditions of the billions of people from China, India, Brasil, and Indonesia.

Also, it's a shame that you guys are being so defensive. You're not going to persuade many people of your cause by abusing them.