• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Divvy

Canadians burned my passport
Enron said:
Do me a favor and swat at something after cocking your arm up. It's entirely possible that you will continue on and follow through, and not just stop your momentum entirely once you make contact with something. The cop's arm stops because 1) the protester seems to be flinging rather wildly there and didn't get enough contact and 2) the officer is pulling his left arm away during all this, and then reaches out with it to grab the guy right before he lands the blow with his right.

Even if it were the cop grabbing his arm and forcing it down, its clear the protester first raised his arm at the cop after getting turned around.

Hmmm, but I don't think the cop is pulling his arm away, it looks to me like the whole left arm is coming towards the screen when the arm floats in midair. The protestor's arm would not continue along the path it was going if the cop arm was in the way like that.

Anyways, the protestor clearly is raising his arms in defense which I don't think gives the cop any rights to punch him in the face. These are cops and not any regular joe shmoe. They're supposed to be trained not to react to provocation and especially not beat down someone who is not a threat to them. We should expect them not to behave this way unless directly attacked.
 

Enron

Banned
Bad_Boy said:
Seriously? In the other video you clearly see the guy walking away from the cop, turned around by the cop and ban hammered to the face.

Clear as day. Now whatever happened to trigger the cop, who knows? But I don't think that use of force was standard police practice.

And yet you don't see the moment <between when> he gets turned around and hammered. Which you see in the video I posted the stills from. Which makes that angle better, because you see everything that happened during the attack.


empty vessel said:
I want to strap you down on a table and study you.

Well, that's disturbing.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
kame-sennin said:
Considering the NYPD's record, this is a pretty insane thing to say.

What is the record of the NYPD? Besides the facts that they have 35000 people making thousands of arrests every year and have greatly diminished crime over the past few decades.



travisbickle said:
I'm assuming this is a "neither are victims" gif. I adore football but the actions of players, managers or staff do not relate to the real world, they live in a fantasy world where acts of assault are dealt with by a fine and a match ban from the FA. In the real world you do not attack someone for "antagonising" you.


In the real world you realize the power of a photo, the power of a video, the power of arrests garnering media coverage. So, you are going to do everything in your power to elicit a response to get what you want (assuming you have the nerve). That's how the game is played and everyone knows it. The protestors, the cops and the media waiting for the next conflict.
 

Enron

Banned
ToxicAdam said:
What is the record of the NYPD? Besides the facts that they have 35000 people making thousands of arrests every year and have greatly diminished crime over the past few decades.

Complete and total brutality, of course.

It amazes me. Just 10 years ago and up until, well, recently, NYPD were heroes. And now they are Nazi Stormtroopers.
 
ToxicAdam said:
What is the record of the NYPD? Besides the facts that they have 35000 people making thousands of arrests every year and have greatly diminished crime over the past few decades.

Cops are always terrible. Its the role they play. They know it, we know it. I think its weird that some people make them out to be some kind of heroes (of course, we know the personality type that is prone to doing this). Also, cops don't have shit to do with crime rates.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
empty vessel said:
Cops are always terrible. Its the role they play. They know it, we know it. I think its weird that some people make them out to be some kind of heroes. Also, cops don't have shit to do with crime rates.

Cops are human beings.
 

Enron

Banned
empty vessel said:
Cops are always terrible. Its the role they play. They know it, we know it. I think its weird that some people make them out to be some kind of heroes. Also, cops don't have shit to do with crime rates.


Oh, now I get it.

Got a thing for cops. This makes sense now.
 
Cops aren't always terrible... this conversation is getting absurd... all that should be said right now is... that white shirt cop is an asshole.
 

Enron

Banned
empty vessel said:
Ironically, so are human beings.



You don't get shit. You are a certified crazy person.


empty vessel said:
Cops are always terrible. Its the role they play. They know it, we know it. I think its weird that some people make them out to be some kind of heroes

Law enforcement is always terrible; they are the enemy, they are never heroes.

That sounds a bit closer to "certified crazy person" than anything I've said in here.

Karma Kramer said:
Cops aren't always terrible... this conversation is getting absurd...

I agree. Your boy empty vessel is bringin' the crazy.
 
Enron said:
And yet you don't see the moment <between when> he gets turned around and hammered. Which you see in the video I posted the stills from. Which makes that angle better, because you see everything that happened during the attack.

Those screen caps you posted came after the man turned around.

Enron said:
Law enforcement is always terrible; they are the enemy, they are never heroes.

That sounds a bit closer to "certified crazy person" than anything I've said in here.

You're either crazy or a liar given some of the bullshit you've spewed in this thread.
 

Enron

Banned
Mortrialus said:
Those screen caps you posted came after the man turned around.

Yes, which would be BETWEEN when he gets turned around and then hammered.


turned around

screencaps (notice how this is in between the two)

hammered in face
 
Enron said:
Law enforcement is always terrible; they are the enemy, they are never heroes.

That sounds a bit closer to "certified crazy person" than anything I've said in here.

I'm not the one making an extensive effort to describe what is there in video for everybody else to plainly see in a way that nobody else will see it. So I don't think you understand just how crazy you are.
 

Enron

Banned
empty vessel said:
I'm not the one making an extensive effort to describe what is there in video for everybody else to plainly see in a way that nobody else will see it. So I don't think you understand just how crazy you are.

You sure are making an extensive effort with the insults, though.

Considering how some people think videos that DONT show the whole attack are better evidence than the one that DOES, i'd say its a pretty clear case of seeing only what you want to see. At least I offered that although the response might have been warranted, it also might not have been and that I didn't know what happened leading up to when the guy got decked, whereas everyone else seems to think that they do. I merely looked at the frame by frame of what was put in front of me.
 
lol Enron don't think you are winning any points here... you still reek bias against OWS and have admitted, so your opinion on this video is pointless. You have no argument, you are either a troll or are truly looking out for "Corporate Republican Interests" , I mean your dad worked at Halliburton, clearly right wing bias flows through your veins. What is your overall view on America right now... what is your solution? Quick summary, sell me on why you are right and the protestors are wrong.
 

Schattenjäger

Gabriel Knight
kame-sennin said:
This reads like you had this reply typed up before you even saw my post. I see nothing here that has anything to do with what I said. If you think I was using hyperbole, quote the specific statement.
Lol I quoted it

And do you not think the police know that some of protesters are trying to bait them?
NYPD is one of the best in the world - don't break the law and nothing will happen
 

Enron

Banned
Karma Kramer said:
lol Enron don't think you are winning any points here... you still reek bias against OWS and have admitted, so your opinion on this video is pointless. You have no argument, you are either a troll or are truly looking out for "Corporate Republican Interests" , I mean your dad worked at Halliburton, clearly right wing bias flows through your veins. What is your overall view on America right now... what is your solution? Quick summary, sell me on why you are right and the protestors are wrong.


Again with the weird interest in me. Kramer, why do you keep insisting this thread discuss me instead of the material it's actually supposed to be about? My opinion is just that. I think it's right. Just like you think yours is. I like arguing against opposing viewpoints, as does everyone else in here. Keep throwing the insults if you must. I'll just be a nice guy and ignore those.
 
Enron said:
Again with the weird interest in me. Kramer, why do you keep insisting this thread discuss me instead of the material it's actually supposed to be about? My opinion is just that. I think it's right. Just like you think yours is. I like arguing against opposing viewpoints, as does everyone else in here. Keep throwing the insults if you must. I'll just be a nice guy and ignore those.

I'm showcasing how your "opinion" on whats going on in these videos is not valid authoritarian behavior. You have said your "opinion" on what happened in the video, we get it. The discussion has not really progressed much, has it? So let it go, so far most people agree the cop was being overly aggressive. Move on.

Also I am asking you not about yourself, but about OWS. I want to know why you disagree with them and what your outlook is on America today.
 
Steelrain said:
"nuh uh you're crazy!"

"well you're super duper crazy!"

"nuh uh you're super duper crazy!"

Seriously, the crazy people don't know when to stop, do they? The genius in being crazy is that everybody else looks crazy to you.
 

Enron

Banned
Schattenjagger said:
Lol I quoted it

And do you not think the police know that some of protesters are trying to bait them?
NYPD is one of the best in the world - don't break the law and nothing will happen

I think if this were any other PD asides from the NYPD......we'd have a lot more beatdowns. The NYC protest crowd is far more antagonistic than any of the other OWS crowds, and is far larger to boot. The NYPD is one of the more professional major city PDs in the country - god knows if this had been in Atlanta, Fulton and Dekalb county cops would have already filled a couple of protesters full of holes.
 

Enron

Banned
Karma Kramer said:
The discussion has not really progressed much, has it? So let it go, so far most people agree the cop was being overly aggressive. Move on.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were making the rules for this thread.
 
Schattenjagger said:
Lol I quoted it

You quoted my whole post, made up of multiple statements, and said it was hyperbole. I still don't know which statement it was that you found hyperbolic.

Schattenjagger said:
And do you not think the police know that some of protesters are trying to bait them?
NYPD is one of the best in the world - don't break the law and nothing will happen

Empirically false:

The claim that the NYPD’s stop-and-frisk policies are a key element of effective crime control seems laughable once you actually look at the numbers produced by the policy. From 2004-2009, out of 2.8 million stops made by the police, fewer than 6 percent resulted in an arrest of any kind — a rate that is actually lower than that which has been produced in other jurisdictions using random checkpoints. When it comes to finding guns, drugs or stolen property — among the principal goals that defenders of the practice cite as justification for it — the stops are even more inadequate, with guns being found in only 0.15 percent of all cases, and drugs or stolen property recovered in only 1.75 percent of all stops. In the heavily-policed Brownsville community of Brooklyn, arrests occur in fewer than 1 percent of all stops made, and out of 50,000 stops in the community just since 2006, only 25 guns have been recovered: that’s a hit rate of about one-twentieth of a percent.

Among the reasons for such pathetic “hit rates,” Fagan notes that a disproportionate share of all stops are justified on police incident forms on the basis of vague and subjective reasons, such as an individual making “furtive movements,” being in a “high crime area,” or for other unspecified reasons. In those cases, which represent roughly half of all stops made, the hit rates are even worse than in the larger sample. In other words, as a crime-control tactic, stop-and-frisk is inefficient at best, downright irrational at worst. Officers are apparently suspecting people of criminal activity on the basis of clues and signals that are proving to be ill-informed. Yet rather than rethink their assumptions, they continue to use the same reasons for their racially-disparate stops year after year.

Interestingly, the racial disparities are even harder to explain when you consider what Fagan and a colleague discovered even as far back as the 1990s; namely, that as bad as the hit rates were overall for stops-and-frisks, they were actually far lower for persons of color. When searched, blacks and Latinos historically have been about a third less likely than their white counterparts to actually be found with illegal contraband or other evidence of criminal activity. Although the disparities in hit rates have been reduced since the 1990s, blacks stopped and searched are still nearly 10 percent less likely than their white counterparts to receive some kind of sanction (either arrest or a court summons) after being stopped by the NYPD. Far from suggesting that the cops are bending over backwards to be kind to African Americans, this fact suggests that still today, the police are quicker to suspect blacks for less legitimate reasons than they are whites, and thus, after searching them, less likely to actually find evidence of actual wrongdoing.

Furthermore, and as Fagan amply demonstrates, in what may well be the most rigorous statistical analysis ever performed on the subject of racial profiling, the correlation between police stops in a given precinct and reports of crimes in those precincts is generally pathetic. For violent crime, there is no significant correlation between reports of crime and the number or racial distribution of stops made, and the racial composition of a precinct alone actually predicts stops three times better than reported crimes. In other words, the fact that people of color commit the lion’s share of violent crime in New York cannot possibly justify the level of racial disproportionality in stops-and-frisks.

Overall, even when you control for the various non-racial variables that could explain the disproportionate stopping of blacks and Latinos by the NYPD (such as local crime levels, the demographics of the community, or the level of police saturation due to higher crime, all of which could logically explain some portion of the higher levels of contact and stops, even if there were no racial bias operating), Fagan’s analysis shows that police are still far more likely to stop people of color than would be expected. For some categories of suspected crime, simply being black or Latino will make one more than twice as likely as whites to be stopped and frisked, even after these other factors have been taken into consideration. Indeed, even in mostly white neighborhoods, people of color are disproportionately stopped and searched, especially for suspected weapons possession or “trespassing.”

Currently, for instance, when people are stopped by the NYPD, even if there is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing uncovered (which is the case in roughly 94 of 100 stops), the names of the persons stopped are entered into a database, ostensibly for use in solving future crimes. As such, it is no exaggeration to say that in some New York City neighborhoods, virtually every black male is in the police database as a potential perp, even if they have never been found to have committed any crime. Such practices as this, in effect, presume that although the people stopped today may be innocent, eventually they will be guilty of something, so we’d best get their names on file now. That such a practice would never be tolerated in the suburbs (or in any white community) should be obvious. And that such a practice will almost by definition create enmity between the black and brown public and the police should be apparent as well. How such strained relationships can possibly help reduce crime in the long-run remains a mystery about which Charen and her ilk seem unconcerned.
 
Enron said:
Sorry, I didn't realize you were making the rules for this thread.

I'm giving you advice if you are so concerned about the conversation being about you. You need to ease it a bit and relax. I just don't understand what is being accomplished here. Reminds me of Fox News... "No i'm right." "No me" "Nuh-uh"

We get it, you made your point. An actual investigation will take place if either side wants to press charges... all we can do with these videos is speculate what we see. You have done that, others have done that, and even more have done that days ago when this video surfaced.

Lets talk about the material. OWS, why do you oppose it and what are your views on America right now, politically, economically, etc.
 
i understand the dilemma between not replying to Enron's rabble rousing, the spiritual successor to Manos without the heart, and just letting him be and making us look like we're unable to take criticism.
 
Alpha-Bromega said:
i understand the dilemma between not replying to Enron's rabble rousing, the spiritual successor to Manos without the heart, and just letting him be and making us look like we're unable to take criticism.

That sounds like a pride thing and shouldn't be relevant to anybody. People argue with Enron because this is the OT, where people come to argue about politics. Most people in this thread are argumentative by nature and won't let absurd statements lie.
 

Jenga

Banned
enron and empty vessel is a match made in heaven

i'll be happy to watch their offspring in poli-gaf threads years from now
 
mi-vic-statue-occupy-620.jpg

so Occupy Montreal go hijacked by the separatists

fuck that movement, what a waste and count me out

Occupy Wall-Street in NYC is alight but not Occupy Montreal

letting these separatist idiots hijack the protest, fuck that shit
 
empty vessel said:
Cops are always terrible. Its the role they play. They know it, we know it. I think its weird that some people make them out to be some kind of heroes (of course, we know the personality type that is prone to doing this). Also, cops don't have shit to do with crime rates.

Utterly pathetic stereotyping/generalizations.
 
gutter_trash said:
mi-vic-statue-occupy-620.jpg

so Occupy Montreal go hijacked by the separatists

fuck that movement, what a waste and count me out

Occupy Wall-Street in NYC is alight but not Occupy Montreal

letting these separatist idiots hijack the protest, fuck that shit

Don't worry, the cold weather is coming.
 

Myansie

Member
Enron said:
Again with the weird interest in me. Kramer, why do you keep insisting this thread discuss me instead of the material it's actually supposed to be about? My opinion is just that. I think it's right. Just like you think yours is. I like arguing against opposing viewpoints, as does everyone else in here. Keep throwing the insults if you must. I'll just be a nice guy and ignore those.

You just dodged the question. "What is your overall view on America right now... what is your solution?"
 

Slavik81

Member
gutter_trash said:
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2011/10/17/mi-vic-statue-occupy-620.jpg
so Occupy Montreal go hijacked by the separatists

fuck that movement, what a waste and count me out

Occupy Wall-Street in NYC is alight but not Occupy Montreal

letting these separatist idiots hijack the protest, fuck that shit
Of course it was. I went to Occupy Calgary and it was just the same arguments that have been discussed for decades.

Know what they should have been protesting? Bill C-11. Know what they weren't protesting? Bill C-11. I don't think there's been a more clear example of the erosion of public rights than the WIPO Performances and Phonograms Treaty. I wish we never signed that garbage.
 

remnant

Banned
gutter_trash said:
mi-vic-statue-occupy-620.jpg

so Occupy Montreal go hijacked by the separatists

fuck that movement, what a waste and count me out

Occupy Wall-Street in NYC is alight but not Occupy Montreal

letting these separatist idiots hijack the protest, fuck that shit
This movement...

THIS MOVEMENT

represents

REPRESENTS

the ninety-nine percent

THE NINETY NINE PERCENT.

We will not allow

WE WILL NOT ALLOW

dissenting views

DISSENTING VIEWS

or opinions

OR OPINIONS
 

Eteric Rice

Member
gutter_trash said:
mi-vic-statue-occupy-620.jpg

so Occupy Montreal go hijacked by the separatists

fuck that movement, what a waste and count me out

Occupy Wall-Street in NYC is alight but not Occupy Montreal

letting these separatist idiots hijack the protest, fuck that shit

Don't give up, cut that shit down.
 

markot

Banned
avaya said:
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Its true to an extent. Italy, Spain and Greece for instance, there is alot of the economy that happens out of governments sight, tax free. Its pretty common place from what I have heard.

Paying cash for things, avoiding taxes... etc...
 

Jak140

Member
remnant said:
This movement...

THIS MOVEMENT

represents

REPRESENTS

the ninety-nine percent

THE NINETY NINE PERCENT.

We will not allow

WE WILL NOT ALLOW

dissenting views

DISSENTING VIEWS

or opinions

OR OPINIONS

Claiming to represent a desire to improve the economic interests of the 99% does not imply that you will agree with a group that attempts to hijack the message of the protest.
 

remnant

Banned
Jak140 said:
Claiming to represent a desire to improve the economic interests of the 99% does not imply that you will agree with a group that attempts to hijack the message of the protest.
What's being hijacked? The movement has no official list or set of demands.

These guys were at the start of the OWS protest. Before the unions and democratic organizers. Now they no longer have an opinion?
 

Jak140

Member
remnant said:
What's being hijacked? The movement has no official list or set of demands.

These guys were at the start of the OWS protest. Before the unions and democratic organizers. Now they no longer have an opinion?

It's not that they aren't allowed to have an opinion, but when the focus of the protest moves away from what inspired the movement in the first place, it becomes something different. It might well be that they were there from the start, but if the focus of the Montreal protests has moved from generally advancing the economic interests of the underclass to separatism, I would say their connection to the greater OWS protests is tenuous at best and if gutter_trash believes the focus of the protests is something he is not comfortable with he is completely within his rights not to participate.
 

Myansie

Member
remnant said:
This movement...

THIS MOVEMENT

represents

REPRESENTS

the ninety-nine percent

THE NINETY NINE PERCENT.

We will not allow

WE WILL NOT ALLOW

dissenting views

DISSENTING VIEWS

or opinions

OR OPINIONS

To be fair the Quebec seperatists are less than 1% of Canada and America.
 
remnant said:
Oh we will survive. It will just suck not having a wal-mart


HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHaaHahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahahahhahahahahaaahhahahahahahaahahahahahahah
HAahahahahhaha a*wipes tear*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahaaahahahhhahahahahahah ... *phew* You loser.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom