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[SuperBonk]

(The following was also edited into my previous post): To be clear, I was not implying that a skilled media campaign is enough to create a publicly-funded health care system--because the media obviously aren't the policymakers that determine the details of the system--but it may be enough to create the necessary public demand for such a system.

Maybe I'm the one who misunderstood you, but I don't disagree that there is room for failure in planning or implementing a publicly-funded healthcare system.

I see now. I think the problem of using the media to bring awareness to the issue highlights the difference between the two groups. Young liberals tend to be more rational than old conservatives and rationality (ironically) isn't as persuasive as propaganda nor does it sell as well.

 

[SolKane]

Their intent is fine. Who is questioning their intent? I'm questioning their intelligence. Whether you like it or not the quality of the messenger reflects on the message.

Manos has repeatedly been one person questioning their intent (alluding to the premise that they will incite violence in some way). Yet you still haven't shown anything to support your claims about the general intelligence of these particular protesters. What makes you think they're uninformed, other than conjecture?

 

[GuyIncognito]

I would also like to know the answer to this question.

that answer to that question is that...they do? the top 1% pays something like 40% of total federal income taxes while ~40% of americans don't pay any federal income taxes.

 

[Wazzim]

Their intent is fine. Who is questioning their intent? I'm questioning their intelligence. Whether you like it or not the quality of the messenger reflects on the message.

Does it matter? Does it matter when we have a corrupt, greedy government raping the working class? The only reason the US didn't have a strong socialist party is because of lack of unity (and people willing to work for extremely little money too), the capitalists took full control and look at where the working class stands at the moment.
The best you can do is support them, even if it's only vocally.

that answer to that question is that...they do? the top 1% pays something like 40% of total federal income taxes while ~40% of americans don't pay any federal income taxes.

They have 40% of the revenue because they have a GIGANTIC amount of money at their disposal, the percentages they have to pay is laughable at best compared to other economical strong nations.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Manos has repeatedly been one person questioning their intent (alluding to the premise that they will incite violence in some way). Yet you still haven't shown anything to support your claims about the general intelligence of these particular protesters. What makes you think they're uninformed, other than conjecture?

Their stated goals make no damn sense and show lack of education on the issues. "End corporate personhood." "End capitalism" "End the effects of money on politics." This crap is flat out stupid. "End capitalism" at least has some reason behind it but its by far the least likely.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Their stated goals make no damn sense and show lack of education on the issues. "End corporate personhood." "End capitalism" "End the effects of money on politics." This crap is flat out stupid. "End capitalism" at least has some reason behind it but its by far the least likely.

Hence, why I don't trust them not to incite violence. I didn't say their only intent was violence, just a likely outcome. When you have angry people who have no clue what the hell they are talking are, common sense can take a back seat.

 

[dave is ok]

Their intent is fine. Who is questioning their intent? I'm questioning their intelligence. Whether you like it or not the quality of the messenger reflects on the message.

The Tea Party seem to be accomplishing quite a bit even though the messenger is some guy in a cowboy hat and an American flag shirt holding a sign saying Obama was born in Kenya.

 

[SolKane]

Their stated goals make no damn sense and show lack of education on the issues. "End corporate personhood." "End capitalism" "End the effects of money on politics." This crap is flat out stupid. "End capitalism" at least has some reason behind it but its by far the least likely.

You're confusing slogans with an actual substantive platform. Yes, those are vague and hyperbolic statements, but that's the nature of mass gatherings or protests - the medium is the message. Those aren't policy ideas and aren't supposed to have any meaning beyond being eye-catching. But that does not speak to the larger point, which is whether or not these protesters are uninformed.

 

[dave is ok]

that answer to that question is that...they do? the top 1% pays something like 40% of total federal income taxes while ~40% of americans don't pay any federal income taxes.

What I learned from this thread: GAF is very brainwashed by the media

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

You're confusing slogans with an actual substantive platform. Yes, those are vague and hyperbolic statements, but that's the nature of mass gatherings or protests - the medium is the message. Those aren't policy ideas and aren't supposed to have any meaning beyond being eye-catching. But that does not speak to the larger point, which is whether or not these protesters are uninformed.

People read those things and thought to themselves, "Yes this is something I support." That says a lot about them, regardless of what you said. Where were all these people when Elizabeth Warren was trying to get Senate confirmation? If they couldn't get worked up for that, but they do for this I do not have any faith in them. You've conversely shown no evidence that these people aren't complete morons.

EDIT: Also its funny how this line of thinking applies to these morons but every teabagger has to believe the ridiculous shit in their slogans. I choose to believe both groups are idiots. You arbitrarily choose one to attribute intelligence to.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

What I learned from this thread: GAF is very brainwashed by the media

People read those things and thought to themselves, "Yes this is something I support." That says a lot about them, regardless of what you said. Where were all these people when Elizabeth Warren was trying to get Senate confirmation? If they couldn't get worked up for that, but they do for this I do not have any faith in them. You've conversely shown no evidence that these people aren't complete morons.

Agreed, groups like these tend to ignore the actual real battles being fought so they can focus on these goofy things.

 

[SuperBonk]

The Tea Party seem to be accomplishing quite a bit even though the messenger is some guy in a cowboy hat and an American flag shirt holding a sign saying Obama was born in Kenya.

What uninformed people are capable of "accomplishing" is exactly what I'm afraid of.

 

[dave is ok]

The minute people stop believing in the plight of the taxed millionaire is the minute this country can start working towards real change.

 

[GuyIncognito]

What I learned from this thread: GAF is very brainwashed by the media

i'm pretty out of touch with "the media" actually

& that's not exactly a substantive response

350k puts puts you in the top 1%. if you think someone who makes 350k/year has "vast amounts of wealth" you're delusional

& what is "real change" exactly?

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

i'm pretty out of touch with "the media" actually

& that's not exactly a substantive response

350k puts puts you in the top 1%. if you think someone who makes 350k/year has "vast amounts of wealth" you're delusional

Depends on where you are. 350k/year in rural areas is gonna have you in a mansion.

 

[magicstop]

Their stated goals make no damn sense and show lack of education on the issues. "End corporate personhood." "End capitalism" "End the effects of money on politics." This crap is flat out stupid. "End capitalism" at least has some reason behind it but its by far the least likely.

Calling the stated goals "flat out stupid" simply doesn't make it so. A lot of the US public is tired of corporations having the rights of individuals, with the supreme court making decisions to the effect that as a result, the corporations can throw infinite money to presidential candidates, etc., thus making elections almost entirely a corporate puppet show (well . . . it already was, but . . .). A lot of the US public is tired of the effects of money on politics, i.e. lobbyists and special interest groups and pork barrel spending.
If you don't agree with these, that's fine, but they aren't stupid, and they are important enough that almost ALL politicians running for office have to pretend that they are against these problems and that they will tackle them once in office. They never do, and you wind up with incredibly frustrated people (Tea Party, ultra left, and joe in the middle).
And ending capitalism is almost always a goal of the far left, and for good reason. Capitalism is the playground for these corporations that value money over human and non-human life, power over the suffering of millions.
The protesters' opinions don't show a lack of education. They show a difference of opinion from your beliefs, maybe, but don't play the tired old card of ad hominem attacking because you don't have a real reason or valid point. You sound just like Manos when you do, and that's sad. You've got no moral high ground to support you, no valid point to support you, and when it's likely that at best you make it out for the presidential vote and nothing more, it's certainly hard to give much weight to your words, as sitting behind your computer and bitching is a lot easier than going out to the streets and giving a fuck by doing something. Yeah yeah, talk about how they aren't doing anything, all while sitting in your boxers at your computer on a comfy Saturday afternoon.

 

[dave is ok]

Depends on where you are. 350k/year in rural areas is gonna have you in a mansion.

350k in any area gives you a pretty good life. Obviously, the problem is exacerbated the further up that 1% you go. Using people making 350k to defend the low tax rates of those making 5 million per year and above is a pretty commonly used tactic in the media.

 

[water_wendi]

The minute people stop believing in the plight of the taxed millionaire is the minute this country can start working towards real change.

Once you understand that the American Dream can never die because it never lived in the first place things start to make sense.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Calling the stated goals "flat out stupid" simply doesn't make it so. A lot of the US public is tired of corporations having the rights of individuals, with the supreme court making decisions to the effect that as a result, the corporations can throw infinite money by presidential candidates, etc., thus making elections almost entirely a corporate puppet show (well . . . it already was, but . . .). A lot of the US public is tired of the effects of money on politics, i.e. lobbyists and special interest groups and pork barrel spending.
If you don't agree with these, that's fine, but they aren't stupid, and they are important enough that almost ALL politicians running for office have to pretend that they are against these problems and that they will tackle them once in office. They never do, and you wind up with incredibly frustrated people (Tea Party, ultra left, and joe in the middle).
And ending capitalism is almost always a goal of the far left, and for good reason. Capitalism is the playground for these corporations that value money over human and non-human life, power over the suffering of millions.
Their opinions don't show a lack of education. They show a difference of opinion from your beliefs, maybe, but don't play the tired old card of ad hominem attacking because you don't have a real reason or valid point. You sound just like Manos when you do, and that's sad.

Do you know what corporate "personhood" is? Is it limited liability? Is it first amendment rights? Wanting to curb corporate rights isn't stupid. Calling it personhood is and shows a lack of knowledge on the topic.

 

[bill gonorrhea]

Lol 4 hour work day.... Those people will never stop wooing at Arby's or move out of their moms basement.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Calling the stated goals "flat out stupid" simply doesn't make it so. A lot of the US public is tired of corporations having the rights of individuals, with the supreme court making decisions to the effect that as a result, the corporations can throw infinite money to presidential candidates, etc., thus making elections almost entirely a corporate puppet show (well . . . it already was, but . . .). A lot of the US public is tired of the effects of money on politics, i.e. lobbyists and special interest groups and pork barrel spending.
If you don't agree with these, that's fine, but they aren't stupid, and they are important enough that almost ALL politicians running for office have to pretend that they are against these problems and that they will tackle them once in office. They never do, and you wind up with incredibly frustrated people (Tea Party, ultra left, and joe in the middle).
And ending capitalism is almost always a goal of the far left, and for good reason. Capitalism is the playground for these corporations that value money over human and non-human life, power over the suffering of millions.
The protesters' opinions don't show a lack of education. They show a difference of opinion from your beliefs, maybe, but don't play the tired old card of ad hominem attacking because you don't have a real reason or valid point. You sound just like Manos when you do, and that's sad. You've got no moral high ground to support you, no valid point to support you, and when it's likely that at best you make it out for the presidential vote and nothing more, it's certainly hard to give much weight to your words, as sitting behind your computer and bitching is a lot easier than going out to the streets and giving a fuck by doing something. Yeah yeah, talk about how they aren't doing anything, all while sitting in your boxers at your computer on a comfy Saturday afternoon.

Sorry this post is bugging me even more. For the record, I agree with most of the stuff these people probably THINK those things mean. But "Getting rid of money and politics" and "Getting rid of corporate personhood" are flat out stupid ways to express these concepts. My point here is this is the lowest common denominator of the left. The funny thing is what you interpret my opposition to these specific people to mean. I'm not using an ad hominenem to attack their beliefs. I'm attack their credibility.

 

[TheSeks]

Wow, Twitter is apparently blocking their hashtag. China, much?

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Wow, Twitter is apparently blocking their hashtag. China, much?

Ok that's bad.

 

[dave is ok]

Sorry this post is bugging me even more. For the record, I agree with most of the stuff these people probably THINK those things mean. But "Getting rid of money and politics" and "Getting rid of corporate personhood" are flat out stupid ways to express these concepts. My point here is this is the lowest common denominator of the left. The funny thing is what you interpret my opposition to these specific people to mean. I'm not using an ad hominenem to attack their beliefs. I'm attack their credibility.

To be fair, you don't know what they mean by 'Getting rid of corporate personhood'. It's a five word declaration they put on a Facebook poll.

 

[Slavik81]

I see now. I think the problem of using the media to bring awareness to the issue highlights the difference between the two groups. Young liberals tend to be more rational than old conservatives and rationality (ironically) isn't as persuasive as propaganda nor does it sell as well.

There are a lot of dumb people in the world. Whether they land on the liberal or conservative side is a matter of chance.

I'd much rather see these people vote in republician nominations or actual elections. Fixing the house of representatives should be the highest priority.

This display is unconvincing. It sends the wrong message and will accomplish nothing. In fact, it might do harm by associating moderates who support reform with angry extremists.

 

[magicstop]

Lol 4 hour work day.... Those people will never stop wooing at Arby's or move out of their moms basement.

In fact, that is most likely based on fairly in depth Marxist theory that extrapolates, based on population numbers, demographics, industrial output, etc., that if a Marxist society were properly implemented, individuals would need only work 4 hours a day or so, with much more time being freed up for leisure, etc., due to the more even distribution of labor and resources. Of course, you wouldn't know that because you're far too busy being judgmental and better-than-thou (you are on a video game forum, at the moment, by the way . . .).

Do you know what corporate "personhood" is? Is it limited liability? Is it first amendment rights? Wanting to curb corporate rights isn't stupid. Calling it personhood is and shows a lack of knowledge on the topic.

First of all, what I know or don't know is most likely irrelevant to the guys holding the signs. Second of all, I know that it means corporations are afforded the rights and status of an individual, as afforded by the 14th amendment, and I also know that as a result, corporate spending, particularly in regard to politics, gets afforded special privileges which result in a completely imbalanced system where corporations can easily and massively outspend true individuals, buying up all available air time, etc., thus controlling the resources in a field where resources make a huge difference.
This isn't about me, though, and you can't grill the guys on the street, so I'm not sure why you think that presuming the worst about them is true or even called for? It's certainly not a viable method of judging someone or something, and it looks ridiculous here.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

Wow, Twitter is apparently blocking their hashtag. China, much?

No they are not

 

[Wazzim]

Wow, Twitter is apparently blocking their hashtag. China, much?

Any proof of that, many people (me included) have been using the hashtag recently so it might be true. We'll see in the coming hours.

 

[TheSeks]

Ok that's bad.

Wait, that's what I get for following trending topics and the flow that's current:

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/kinra/twitter_is_currently_blocking_occupywallstreet/

Apparently it isn't blocked, but not trending.

 

[SuperBonk]

There are a lot of dumb people in the world. Whether they land on the liberal or conservative side is a matter of chance.

No doubt, but I was using "young liberals" in the context that Tristam was using it, as in the people who tend to be skeptical of these protests and "older conservatives" in the context of, well, the Tea Party I guess.

Agreed with everything else you had to say.

 

[Neuromancer]

I wonder what the overall smell is like right now. Do we have any GAF field reporters out there?

 

[SuperBonk]

Of course, you wouldn't know that because you're far too busy being judgmental and better-than-thou (you are on a video game forum, at the moment, by the way . . .)

This is a perfect description of every single post you have made in this entire thread. Pure inflammatory nonsense.

 

[Enosh]

In fact, that is most likely based on fairly in depth Marxist theory that extrapolates, based on population numbers, demographics, industrial output, etc., that if a Marxist society were properly implemented, individuals would need only work 4 hours a day or so, with much more time being freed up for leisure, etc., due to the more even distribution of labor and resources. Of course, you wouldn't know that because you're far too busy being judgmental and better-than-thou (you are on a video game forum, at the moment, by the way . . .).

id's say the past 70 something years are a rather good indication that Marx was full of bullshit
*insert here a reply about how his idea were never realy implemented in the right way and that it will work 100% on try nb. 43*"
*random number

althrough I agree with taxing the rich and corporations A LOT more

 

[bggrthnjsus]

i walked by this protest today, and saw signs about funding nasa, stopping some execution, jet skis, big business and probably a dozen other things. dudes gotta just pick one thing to protest.

 

[magicstop]

id's say the past 70 something years are a rather good indication that Marx was full of bullshit
*insert here a reply about how his idea were never realy implemented in the right way and that it will work 100% on try nb. 43*"
*random number

althrough I agree with taxing the rich and corporations A LOT more

You'd be wrong. And there would be a lot of people who would disagree with you, some of whom spend their lives dedicated to the study of economics and sociology, etc. Also, what gave you the impression that capitalism is working? Care to compare the deaths under each system, globally?
Anyway, this isn't the thread for that discussion, as they aren't holding a Marxist protest. You probably agree with them to some degree if you believe corporations and the rich should be more heavily taxed.

 

[JohnTinker]

i walked by this protest today, and saw signs about funding nasa, stopping some execution, jet skis, big business and probably a dozen other things. dudes gotta just pick one thing to protest.

+/- 2 keffiyas per 1 guy fawkes mask?

 

[140.85]

To call this pathetic would be charitable.

These kids have zero clue what they are doing and they've been taken in by the usual Marxist/anarchist sophistry and demagoguery. For the ones who do think they know what they are doing it is yet another sad gasp for relevancy in a modern world that has proven every aspect of their bankrupt philosophies a dismal failure at everything except increasing human misery.

Well at least it will provide for some entertainment.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

'OccupyWallStreet' has again been deleted from Trending list. Human Rights lol.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Back again. Twitter is trolling,

 

[Fusion Pizza]

Their intent is clear manos.

The police asked to speak to their leader, they replied with "we don't have one lulz"

 

[Fusion Pizza]

Oh look, its trending!

#takewallstreet

 

[jon bones]

I'm bringing a bandana, skateboard and spray paint can to the office Monday. Then I will infiltrate this band of idiots and sleep with the least hippie good looking chick I see.

 

[Nuttycam]

eurgh

 

[victreeb3l]

some cute ass girls on that livestream :3

 

[chaostrophy]

These kids have zero clue what they are doing and they've been taken in by the usual Marxist/anarchist sophistry and demagoguery. For the ones who do think they know what they are doing it is yet another sad gasp for relevancy in a modern world that has proven every aspect of their bankrupt philosophies a dismal failure at everything except increasing human misery.

Actually the modern world has proven that capitalism where the finance industry has the level of control over the economy that it does in the US will only lead to bubbles and crashes, mass unemployment, wretched health care for huge swaths of the population, privatized gains and socialized losses, the usual. While the rest of the developed world (the actual developed world, not an imagined utopia) carries on with a higher standard of living for the masses.

None of these protesters have shown support of ending the right to own a business and make profit, and instituting a Soviet-style centralized economy. If I'm wrong here, point out where they have. Otherwise stop it with the straw Commie.

 

[TheSeks]

I'm bringing a bandana, skateboard and spray paint can to the office Monday. Then I will infiltrate this band of idiots and sleep with the least hippie good looking chick I see.

But you're a Wall street man that probably isn't for their rights. Ew.

Also the original Hashtag is #OccupyWallStreet not #takingwallstreet. The ORIGINAL tag is the one that isn't trending. It's why people are using #takingwallstreet instead.

 

[Anticitizen One]

I don't always see eye to eye with Anonymous but man do I like their style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nvb4HaXVMM

 

[Utako]

Their intent is fine. Who is questioning their intent? I'm questioning their intelligence. Whether you like it or not the quality of the messenger reflects on the message.

You still have yet to prove your intelligence, but you are posting.

 

[timetokill]

Capitalism is fine, corporatism isn't. The government is complicit in this whole problem, not just Wall Street. Look at Obama's cabinet. You think they're trying to "fix" this? It's already working perfectly for them.

That said, good for them, get your protest on. God knows we could use more civil unrest until some real change happens.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

You still have yet to prove your intelligence, but you are posting.

I'm not the one trying to have my views shape American policy...