"OCCUPY WALL STREET"

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akira28 said:
Proof. Non-anecdotal preferably.


Here is a guy who had shit tossed on him.
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=recent_user_posts;u=00010233

As a "spitee," I just love these attempts to rewrite history. Let's not let these people get away with it. The way returning veterans were treated was disgraceful.

I joined in 70 and was a cadet until commissioning in 74, did not go to Vietnam, yet have a barracks bag full of abuse stories. Marching in a Veterans Day parade in NYC; bags of human feces thrown into the formation. Hometown pastor called me aside after a service while on leave, had me kneel down, and asked God to forgive me for being "a mercenary butcher". Direct quote. Went to West Point's away game at Boston College; same weekend as the "peaceful" anti-war riots (are we pretending they didn't happen, too?); physically attacked in a bar by peace activists." Waiting for a plane at SF Airport; had to come to the aid of a kid fresh back from Vietnam who was being physically attacked by "pacifists." Want more? First time back on leave I called the girl I'd been dating for 2 years in high school; parents wouldn't let me speak to her; said they didn't want their daughter associating with "undesirables."

I know why people want so badly to rewrite history. Many of them have a hell of a lot they want to pretend did not happen. After I got my appointment, one of the peace-loving hippies in my highschool called me a facist and threw a punch. As fate would have it, after retirement I moved back to my hometown and a couple years later the very same guy moved in across the street. He is now a gung-ho, super patriot (now that he isn't facing the draft) and mortified by how he acted when soldier-bashing was fashionable.

I wish spitting was the worst of it. Much prefer that to having to march a mile at rigid attention with some "peace-activist's" shit smeared on me.

But I'm not bitter. No, sir. Not after the electro-shock therapy. In fact I feel much better now. Anybody seen my pills?

He was spit on
http://www.amazon.com/review/RGXDDJ...e=UTF8&ASIN=0814751474&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=
I of an age where I have no political ax to grind either from the far right or far left. Frankly I'm really rather tired of all of the polarizing screeching from both sides. I can however relate an incident that happened to me in Chicago in 1970. I was a Marine PFC in uniform walking down Michigan Avenue to catch a train home for a few days of leave before begin sent to Viet Nam when a significantly older waitress came running out of a shop yelling at me that I was a murderer. She followed me for a bit, continuing her tirade and then quickly ran back to her place of work. There were no newspaper reporters or photographers on hand to verify the incident for Mr. Lembcke, but my memory is very clear and it happened just as I report whether or not Mr. Lembcke or anyone else believes it or not. There was a businessman walking along beside me who simply remarked after the lady left us that, "It takes all kinds to make a world."
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Food insurance, what silliness is that?
http://www.foodinsurance.com/

As recommended by Glenn Beck, Michael Savage, Laura Ingraham, and Sean Hannity.
KuGsj.gif
 
mre said:
http://www.foodinsurance.com/

As recommended by Glenn Beck, Michael Savage, Laura Ingraham, and Sean Hannity.
KuGsj.gif
So retards buying overpriced MRE's. Man I need to show that to my dad, who was a Marine, he'd laugh his ass off at designer and high priced MRE's. I tired one once (he got it from a Marine Christmas party held by a Judge), I'm fairly certain those things will never taste good or convesly go bad. Lol
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
So retards buying overpriced MRE's. Man I need to show that to my dad, who was a Marine, he'd laugh his ass off at designer and high priced MRE's. I tired one once (he got it from a Marine Christmas party held by a Judge), I'm fairly certain those things will never taste good or convesly go bad. Lol
Pretty much. It's ridiculous.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Hey he asked, and didn't want anecdotal evidence.

So you provide anecdotes. :) That's the thing, growing up I saw this image basically dramatized in media and meme. The hateful Anti-American hippy. But there's never anything more than a story of someone hearing it happening to someone else, or remembering seeing something like that, always a sparse recollection, but never anything verifiable or any references archived. I don't believe it happened.
 
nilbog21 said:

y'know...just in case a black President can't hack it, and turns the country to ruin, at least you have surplus MREs and foil packaged seeds. There's that.

Oh yeah, anecdote #2...a waitress yelled at the guy. She wasn't a hippie, and she didn't spit on the dude, apparently.
 
akira28 said:
So you provide anecdotes. :) That's the thing, growing up I saw this image basically dramatized in media and meme. The hateful Anti-American hippy. But there's never anything more than a story of someone hearing it happening to someone else, or remembering seeing something like that, always a sparse recollection, but never anything verifiable or any references archived. I don't believe it happened.

Except it did. Are you claiming no returning Vietnam Vetran was mistreated upon their return home? Part of the problem is something like this would never formally be reported to the police or recorded on video or audio. You're not going to find archival evidence for it. Though it does appear referenced in contemporary material and not post war time period. I can provide that if you want.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/press_box/2007/02/spitfire.html?onswipe_redirect=no
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
Except it did. Are you claiming no returning Vietnam Vetran was mistreated upon their return home? Part of the problem is something like this would never formally be reported to the police or recorded on video or audio. You're not going to find archival evidence for it. Though it does appear referenced in contemporary material and not post war time period. I can provide that if you want

That's the whole trick Manos. As often as the press was there to see returning soldiers from late 60s on, all those soldiers rotating back in, and not one news story, not one picture, not one ounce of proof of that sort of misconduct. No pictures of spitting hippies anywhere ever. You've heard stories, so have I. Anti-peace demonstrators can have a motive for making shit up like those honorable soldiers who went on record and said John Kerry basically didn't deserve his medals. There's also the post Vietnam Conservstive backlash that retroactively blamed the Left for losing the war. "We were winning but anti-war sentiment forced Nixon..." or "We were winning but all that hippie drug culture invaded the armed forces" or whoever they felt like blaming 10 years later. Not themselves of course.

But yes, the Conservative media will provide examples. I grew up Conservative, I've seen them. I heard a vet saying the other day that the command structure was broken and you had so many disillusioned kids refusing to fight, refusing to follow orders from their superior officers, and actual squabbles between the ranks. That this was the real reason that will never make it out, the management of the conflict was what got away from them. Of course the Conservatives just blame the Democrats for lacking the will for victory. Everyone has stories.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
So retards buying overpriced MRE's. Man I need to show that to my dad, who was a Marine, he'd laugh his ass off at designer and high priced MRE's. I tired one once (he got it from a Marine Christmas party held by a Judge), I'm fairly certain those things will never taste good or convesly go bad. Lol

One of my roommates was in the Guard when we were in college and every time he would go off for whatever-it-is-they-do, he'd swipe a shitton of MREs and the whole apartment would eat those if we ran out of money.
 
akira28 said:
That's the whole trick Manos. As often as the press was there to see returning soldiers from late 60s on, all those soldiers rotating back in, and not one news story, not one picture, not one ounce of proof of that sort of misconduct. No pictures of spitting hippies anywhere ever.
I just provided you with a source, from a news story.


You've heard stories, so have I. Anti-peace demonstrators can have a motive for making shit up like those honorable soldiers who went on record and said John Kerry basically didn't deserve his medals. There's also the post Vietnam Conservstive backlash that retroactively blamed the Left for losing the war. "We were winning but anti-war sentiment forced Nixon..." or "We were winning but all that hippie drug culture invaded the armed forces" or whoever they felt like blaming 10 years later. Not themselves of course.
Are you saying that the Anti-War Left was ineffective? The problem with Vietnam, much like Korea was that the military could not effectively fight the war. In part due to valid geopolitical concerns, but the truth was they had to maintain the status quo, not change the situation. It just worked better in Korea than in Vietnam. Unfortunately for those in South Vietnam, they never got the chance to eventually become like the Republic of Korea.


But yes, the Conservative media will provide examples. I grew up Conservative, I've seen them. I heard a vet saying the other day that the command structure was broken and you had so many disillusioned kids refusing to fight, refusing to follow orders from their superior officers, and actual squabbles between the ranks. That this was the real reason that will never make it out, the management of the conflict was what got away from them. Of course the Conservatives just blame the Democrats for lacking the will for victory. Everyone has stories.
To a large extent it was the media, along with the problem I discussed above, my dad said he realized after the Tet Offensive when Cronkite went on the news and with other reporting he felt that the country had abandoned them. This was coming from a life long democrat and liberal, and possibly one of the only Former Marines with a Veterans For Kerry yard on the law, not someone who was part of the Conservative establishment.
 
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
I just provided you with a source, from a news story.



Are you saying that the Anti-War Left was ineffective? The problem with Vietnam, much like Korea was that the military could not effectively fight the war. In part due to valid geopolitical concerns, but the truth was they had to maintain the status quo, not change the situation. It just worked better in Korea than in Vietnam. Unfortunately for those in South Vietnam, they never got the chance to eventually become like the Republic of Korea.



To a large extent it was the media, along with the problem I discussed above, my dad said he realized after the Tet Offensive when Cronkite went on the news and with other reporting he felt that the country had abandoned them. This was coming from a life long democrat and liberal, and possibly one of the only Former Marines with a Veterans For Kerry yard on the law, not someone who was part of the Conservative establishment.

You provided me with a news story written in 07 about an anecdotal account given almost 40 years ago. And you say 'valid geopolitical concerns' I say 'can't fight a war that you don't really want to win anyway' denial. I won't go back and look, but wasn't it you that pointed out that the major demonstrations didn't occur until the war had been being fought for 10 years, so why ask me about their effectiveness in protesting a secret war? Yeah I know they blame everyone, the hippies, the left, the commies, that liberal biased media we hear so much about. And of course they'll tell their people their country didn't support them. Of course they'll tell them the only ones they can count on is the military and the Conservatives. I saw it directly during GWOT. Except even in the 60s "stop the war" was followed by "bring our boys home". They were told by their leaders they weren't supported by Americans, when it was the war that was being protested, not them. It wasn't even until things like My Lai and the napalm stories got out that SOME people started considering them as culpable or responsible and the names like babykiller started gettting thrown around. From what I hear from angry vets, it wasn't the media that they felt had abandoned them in jungle after sending them a world away.
 
akira28 said:
You provided me with a news story written in 07 about an anecdotal account given almost 40 years ago.
Did you click on the link? He posted the actual CBS News Story video
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/press_box/2007/03/picketts_charge.html
1_123125_123019_2156568_2160951_070306_pb_cbs.gif



And you say 'valid geopolitical concerns' I say 'can't fight a war that you don't really want to win anyway' denial.
Than why does South Korea exist now?

but wasn't it you that pointed out that the major demonstrations didn't occur until the war had been being fought for 10 years, so why ask me about their effectiveness in protesting a secret war?
No, I didn't
 
South asian containment theory. The Original war on terror and drugs. Don't you have some pictures you can post or something? You've dragged your topic off thread.
 
akira28 said:
yes. ask yourself this. and the North for that matter.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but without American involvement there surely would be one Korea--united under the rule of Kim Jong-il. Kim Il-sung had the backing of Stalin and Mao.
 
Tristam said:
I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but without American involvement there surely would be one Korea--united under the rule of Kim Jong-il. Kim Il-sung had the backing of Stalin and Mao.

I've heard an opposing theory.

Without American involvement, the country would've collapsed in its own civil war and we'd have been surprised to see other people NOT trying to take out Il-sung when the country fell into complete chaos.
 
Wonder if there is anything going on in Portland, the hippie mecca! Seriously, there's gotta be something going on, there's protests for shit ALL the time. A flash mob protest happened across the street from my house a few weeks ago. Might check it out this weekend if anything cool is happening.
 
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