Oculus Rift - Dev Kit Discussion [Orders Arriving]

Bufbaf said:
So how do you guys control mouselook in first person with that thing? Isn't it really confusing turning your head via the mouse/second stick at the same time as, well, turning your actual head? It sounds so jarring to me.
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Th method implemented in HL2 (where you can freely aim within some cone around your view using the mouse, and then start to move the view) "just works" in my experience. It only takes a few minutes to get used to, and then you can start playing really well. I was surprised at myself when I whipped my head around in a direction a shot was coming from and immediately hit the combine dude in the face.

Shadow2222 said:
Hmm, now I'm a little confused. Is it simply the 3d and head tracking that is immersive then? I'm sorry if it is a redundant question, but I've been under the impression that it was the horizontal FOV fooling your brain.
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It's a combination of things. The FoV is not "full" (they never claimed that), but it's still far higher than pretty much anything else out there. In fact, vertically it's almost full when properly configured.
 
StevePharma said:
He's a little over the top with his reactions but I can imagine something like Dishonored being very immersive.

I think Metro Last Light would give that same feeling as well with all the hand movements and gas masks.
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We have lots of great, atmospheric first person shooters to try.

I can't wait to play Dishonored, the three Bioshock, the two Metro, Left 4 Dead, HL series, Portal, etc.

And those are just games adapted to the Rift.

All of this from a devkit. It's amazing, really.
 
This might be the first (?) PC peripheral that actually gets supportet by devs. Supported as in "Better with Oculus Rift" on the boxart and options for increased 3D experience in the options menu.
 
Bufbaf said:
This might be the first (?) PC peripheral that actually gets supportet by devs. Supported as in "Better with Oculus Rift" on the boxart and options for increased 3D experience in the options menu.
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We can only hope, but that would require the Rift selling a huge amount. It'll sell plenty, but I'm not sure it could be described as "huge".
 
Bufbaf said:
So how do you guys control mouselook in first person with that thing? Isn't it really confusing turning your head via the mouse/second stick at the same time as, well, turning your actual head? It sounds so jarring to me.
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People have been doing it for years now with the TrackIR, many enthusiasts consider games like ArmA unplayable without that kind of control scheme.
 
metareferential said:
Are the vireio drivers that bad?

I've read some games work pretty well (even though not as good as officially supported ones).
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the way they draw alternate frames for each eye plays havoc with my brain when I turn or strafe. Things look okay walking forwards or standing still, but I can't handle what happens when doing anything else.

Obviously YMMV, but for me they aren't worth bothering with at all, at least for now.
 
plagiarize said:
the way they draw alternate frames for each eye plays havoc with my brain when I turn or strafe. Things look okay walking forwards or standing still, but I can't handle what happens when doing anything else.

Obviously YMMV, but for me they aren't worth bothering with at all, at least for now.
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I wonder if you could do something crazy like intercept a game's timing calls to make it think that no (or almost no) time passed between the corresponding left/right frames.
 
Do any of the Bioshock games work with the Rift? I just started Infinite, but if there's Rift support I kind of want to hold off until mine gets here.
 
Durante said:
I wonder if you could do something crazy like intercept a game's timing calls to make it think that no (or almost no) time passed between the corresponding left/right frames.
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I certainly couldn't.

But maybe *you* could. Not sure that'd help a bunch though. I think you do better getting inside the inputs to stop the camera moving between rendering each eye
 
Izayoi said:
Do any of the Bioshock games work with the Rift? I just started Infinite, but if there's Rift support I kind of want to hold off until mine gets here.
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The Vorpx driver is supposed to support Bioshock Infinite. It hasn't been released yet, but the developer says it should be out soon.
 
I haven't seen any impressions about it apart from what the dev has written. He has a blog where he talks about it here.

It doesn't look like the release will be too long from now. He made this forum post on May 5th:
The devkit was only released a few weeks ago. I got mine for barely two weeks, and we’re already in beta right now. Not exactly slow development I would say. Things are tested and ironed out, and a few convenience features are added.

You won’t have to wait too long anymore, but it is important to reach a certain level of polish before software is released to a wider audience.
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I'm always skeptical about VorpX in this context, I just don't believe that reprojection 3D can work well for something like the Rift.

plagiarize said:
I certainly couldn't.

But maybe *you* could. Not sure that'd help a bunch though. I think you do better getting inside the inputs to stop the camera moving between rendering each eye
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If the game doesn't think any time has passed, then normally you (the player) won't be moving either, regardless of inputs. I'll put it on my list of things to try when I have some more free time again.
 
Mmmm, at close to 400 bucks,tax included and all,this will never catch on again right...?meaning all the similar type of virtual reality gizmo's and what not over the years always failed or got completly ignored by the consumers...wonder if this one will be it...?
 
I really hope this catches on because after playing Half-Life 2 in VR, it's kind of hard to go back to playing an FPS on a monitor/TV. It just seems a little boring now.
 
Ricker said:
Mmmm, at close to 400 bucks,tax included and all,this will never catch on again right...?meaning all the similar type of virtual reality gizmo's and what not over the years always failed or got completly ignored by the consumers...wonder if this one will be it...?
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Previous available devices did cost more, delivered only a fraction of the experience (much lower fov, less precise or no tracking) and had ZERO support from developers.

This is the first time where i see a realistic chance for VR taking off, at least for gaming enthusiasts. Damn, it's almost airborn with all the love and awesome support it already gets.

All the big boys seem to love it, valve, id, epic/cliffy, dice and many more. Though i'm more eager to see what smaller/independent studios will bring to the table. The Gallery is shaping up to be an incredible immersive vr experience.
 
Durante said:
I wonder if you could do something crazy like intercept a game's timing calls to make it think that no (or almost no) time passed between the corresponding left/right frames.
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I think the ideal would just be to modify the drivers (which are open source if I recall correctly) to render for both eyes simultaneously.

However that's presumably quite complex with the way they are intercepting graphics calls, and why it hasn't been done yet. If you're bored and want to take up the project I'm sure they'd be more than happy about that though. :P
 
DieH@rd said:
Slide was real, but it mentioned 1080p only for Consumer Model 1.
http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/GTC-2013-Oculus-VR-Reveals-Future-Oculus-Rift-ECS
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Yeah. There's never been any mention of resolution in Dev kit 2. Just the presumption dev kit 2 is replacing dev kit 1 for real reasons. It's then coupled with the 1080p Nexus 7 about to be released (it's already using the current Nexus 7 screen) and it's fair speculation.

I'm a bit concerned that pre-orders are being backed into August now. Unless they just decide to upgrade those orders to Dev Kit 2 at some point, it's beginning to make a 2013 release a bit iffy. We're fast running out of months.
 
1-D_FTW said:
Yeah. There's never been any mention of resolution in Dev kit 2. Just the presumption dev kit 2 is replacing dev kit 1 for real reasons. It's then coupled with the 1080p Nexus 7 about to be released (it's already using the current Nexus 7 screen) and it's fair speculation.

I'm a bit concerned that pre-orders are being backed into August now. Unless they just decide to upgrade those orders to Dev Kit 2 at some point, it's beginning to make a 2013 release a bit iffy. We're fast running out of months.
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I think this is precisely the sort of thing I predicted earlier, considering how long it has taken to get the Kickstarter preorders out. Weren't they originally aiming for December 2012?

And this is one of the reasons I'm glad I didn't cancel my preorder to wait for the consumer or v2 or whatever version. :P
 
plagiarize said:
the way they draw alternate frames for each eye plays havoc with my brain when I turn or strafe.
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How does that work -- you mean if you're running the game at 60 fps, it updates the left eye, then 1/60 s later it updates the right eye, then 1/60 s later it updates the left eye again, etc?

If so... yeah, I can see how that would be jarring.
 
rohlfinator said:
How does that work -- you mean if you're running the game at 60 fps, it updates the left eye, then 1/60 s later it updates the right eye, then 1/60 s later it updates the left eye again, etc?

If so... yeah, I can see how that would be jarring.
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I believe so, and as such I think it requires you to run the game at 120 fps if you want 60 fps per eye. It's a known issue but I'm not sure if there is a feasible way for them to get a simultaneous-to-both-eyes injected render path. Durante would know way better than me if he has time to look at their code.
 
Blizzard said:
I believe so, and as such I think it requires you to run the game at 120 fps if you want 60 fps per eye. It's a known issue but I'm not sure if there is a feasible way for them to get a simultaneous-to-both-eyes injected render path. Durante would know way better than me if he has time to look at their code.
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which he should, because it is open source ;)

it's okay Durante, I know you're going to when you get a chance.

I'm up to Alpha Labs 2b in Doom 3. It's so nice to be pouring time into playing something polished rather than just poking around trying out all the experimental things. VR has made me realise how much more detailed Doom's environments are than HL2s, which got by over Doom 3 with texture resolution basically. Lots of flat walls and floors in HL2.

Dynamic lighting is amazing in VR too. Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure it's better than HL2 in VR is, but it's very compelling in it's own way. that's why I want Virieo to work for me, because these nine year old games in VR are impressing me more than anything I've played before.

I know they aren't the best games ever, and I'm sure they aren't the most ideally suited to VR. there's a lot of games that came out in the last nine years that could really benefit from the oculus. It's hard to predict what shines in VR I find. I had no idea how impressive the helicopter chase in the airboat was going to be in HL2, for example, and considering how much it's improved Doom 3 (which has gone from decent to amazing in my estimations), I'm sure there's some games out there that would be absolute gems in VR, maybe even some ones that are currently overlooked.

Kafel said:
Can you also just watch a movie like with the Sony product ?
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Not to harp on about this, but I've never been able to keep my HMZ on my head for longer than an hour comfortably. I've never been able to 'just' watch a movie on it. I can see myself watching a 3D movie on the consumer rift in the virtual theater, with head tracking, though. that'd let you overcome some of the lost resolution by allowing you to 'focus' the detail on whichever part of the screen was drawing your interest. probably not worth doing on the dev kit though, as even with ghosting et al, my 3DTV is going to offer a much better viewing experience.
 
rohlfinator said:
How does that work -- you mean if you're running the game at 60 fps, it updates the left eye, then 1/60 s later it updates the right eye, then 1/60 s later it updates the left eye again, etc?

If so... yeah, I can see how that would be jarring.
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No actually each eye gets the image at the same moment (disregarding pixel switching). It's only one screen and that screen is refreshing at 60fps. Both eyes are looking at the same screen so each eye gets 60 FPS per second. Your machine is technically running the games at 120FPS @ 640x800 so it can produce the two seperate images and display them both on halves of the screen 60 times per second. At least I think that's the case.
 
The Oculus Rift is basically just doing a splitscreen. It's just that instead of P1/P2, it's Eye 1 Eye 2. It's not like the more "traditional" 3D rendering.
 
I was going to build a HTPC for the living room with an A10 in it to play games at 720p on my TV, but the reactions to the Rift have made me decide to wait a bit and build a rig that can play games on the consumer model.

I do wonder though, will a bump to 1080p get rid of the screen door effect, or will pixels still be visible? I'm not sure how bad the screen door effect is at 720p.

Also, does that slide show the addition of stereo cameras? If so, that could mean motion tracking for your hands, which would be huge for immersion and interactivity.
 
YuShtink said:
No actually each eye gets the image at the same moment (disregarding pixel switching). It's only one screen and that screen is refreshing at 60fps. Both eyes are looking at the same screen so each eye gets 60 FPS per second. Your machine is technically running the games at 120FPS @ 640x800 so it can produce the two seperate images and display them both on halves of the screen 60 times per second. At least I think that's the case.
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H3XAntiStyle said:
The Oculus Rift is basically just doing a splitscreen. It's just that instead of P1/P2, it's Eye 1 Eye 2. It's not like the more "traditional" 3D rendering.
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This is true for the Rift itself, but we were talking about the Virieo Perception injection program specifically. It tries to provide Rift support for games that do not have it, I think by hijacking their DirectX graphics calls. Perception itself does the alternate-eye rendering thing.

Games modified with native support for the Rift don't have this issue.
 
Blizzard said:
This is true for the Rift itself, but we were talking about the Virieo Perception injection program specifically. It tries to provide Rift support for games that do not have it, I think by hijacking their DirectX graphics calls. Perception itself does the alternate-eye rendering thing.

Games modified with native support for the Rift don't have this issue.
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yep and yep. I believe (though I haven't confirmed, that Virieo renders the game at 120 frames per second, but updates both eyes simultaneously. so left eye sees a moment that is 1/120th of a second infront of what the right eye sees. this plays hell with your depth perception when you are moving sideways or rotating, because the speed at which you rotate changes the percieved depth distortion. also, rotating and strafing in opposite directions has opposite effects. one way makes things feel flatter, the other makes things feel too deep. the faster you move, or turn, the worse it gets.

generally moving forwards or backwards the distortion is imperceptible to me.

not everyone seems to notice it, at least, not to the point where they feel it makes the games unplayable as I do, but then again I know I'm not the only one to feel this way. I really hope they can make it work, or that someone already working at injecting 3D support into existing titles like TriDef can get support added into games that aren't open source as Doom 3 is.

anyway... that helicopter isn't going to shoot itself down, and I want to play catch with Dog. laters.
 
Chris_C said:
I was going to build a HTPC for the living room with an A10 in it to play games at 720p on my TV, but the reactions to the Rift have made me decide to wait a bit and build a rig that can play games on the consumer model.

I do wonder though, will a bump to 1080p get rid of the screen door effect, or will pixels still be visible? I'm not sure how bad the screen door effect is at 720p.

Also, does that slide show the addition of stereo cameras? If so, that could mean motion tracking for your hands, which would be huge for immersion and interactivity.
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1080p will still be low res, just not quite as low as currently. TBh I think you're better off not thinking of this as a PC display, as that makes you think of PC games running in high res. just think of it as a new console, with its own particular quirks. I can enjoy games on the 3DS even though it is low res, because it is what it is. Same with PSP games etc.
 
Last night I dreamed there was someone across the road walking out to their mailbox with an Oculus Rift (presumably a wireless version) and checking their mail, feeling along next to where the wall/was would be as they tried to make their way back indoors.

Then they like, gave it to me since I was next on the list of people who would get to try the Oculus Rift, but the price was that we had to invite people over and I guess make food and snacks and whatever, and I don't really have a place that I can invite people over to, so I had to give to whoever else was next. :(
 
MrBig said:
Handn't seen this yet, that path tracing engine is getting rift support. This is the
far
future.
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Speaking of the future, I posted these two videos in the Outerra thread, but it's nearly deserted so maybe some people here will like them:

Enhanced grass, dirt, and rock textures:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYjjoX3lqNI

Unrelated Outerra video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk94eue5ziM

I don't think I've heard anything about Outerra getting Rift support, but it sure seems like it would be awesome if it did and steady framerates were attainable.
 
Blizzard said:
Speaking of the future, I posted these two videos in the Outerra thread, but it's nearly deserted so maybe some people here will like them:

Enhanced grass, dirt, and rock textures:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYjjoX3lqNI

Unrelated Outerra video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk94eue5ziM

I don't think I've heard anything about Outerra getting Rift support, but it sure seems like it would be awesome if it did and steady framerates were attainable.
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Oh good, they kind of dropped off the map after I donated, nice to see them continuing development (e: or is this just a mod?). Personally I used the engine for prototyping a few art projects, I don't even know what they plan to do with the tech or if anyone else is using it to make a game.

I would so love to see this kind of tech implemented in Star Citizen, even if a few years after release.
 
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