Support NeoGAF

[Chiggs]

I've been saying this all along. Key word. Drivers drivers drivers. ATI continues to hold back their 4800 series cards with these drivers. They should be well ahead of what's seen in benches.

Nvidia released their new drivers on Wednesday. Check it out:

Includes several 3D application performance improvements. The following are examples of improvements measured with v178.13 WHQL versus v175.19 WHQL driver:
Single GPU increases up to 11% in 3DMark Vantage (performance preset)
Single GPU increases up to 11% in Assassin's Creed DX10
Single GPU increases up to 15% in Bioshock DX10
Single GPU increases up to 15% in Call of Duty 4
Single GPU increases up to 8% in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
2-way SLI increases up to 7% in Bioshock DX10
2-way SLI increases up to 10% in Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts DX10
2-way SLI increases up to 12% in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
2-way SLI increases up to 10% in World in Conflict DX10

When I look at ATI release notes, I see nothing but fixes. This is why I was such a supporter of the GTX 260 following the 4870's launch, because the drivers were really, really improving. All those benches that compared the two cards back in June don't paint an accurate picture.

 

[Kadey]

Nvidia released their new drivers on Wednesday. Check it out:



When I look at ATI release notes, I see nothing but fixes. This is why I was such a supporter of the GTX 260 following the 4870's launch, because the drivers were really, really improving. All those benches that compared the two cards back in June don't paint an accurate picture.

Yep. Really. It's the main reason why I kept my GX2. It plays Crysis on par with the X2 and continues to improve in other areas thanks to Nvidia literally releasing drivers like every 2-3 weeks.

 

[godhandiscen]

Well, the one game I do play often is WAR which just flat out has performance issues accross all cards, and its just bad optimization. I expected to hit 80fps on WAR, and sometimes I do, but then other times something as little as a Thunder spell effect can cripple my framerate. Note that I have only seen this effect in one boss only. Also, you can basically feel when the memory leak starts. If you travel around to many zones, the framerate will slowly start decreasing, and my memory usage goes to over 4GB's (luckily I have 8GB). So these are issues I couldnt have resolved with a better card, and this is why I am still happy that at least I got the best out there in the market, but as I said, its just not all rainbow and roses as I predicted. If a 5870x2 comes along, I will buy it, but I will never again set my expectations so high.


Also, my card is overclocked and it gets a little better benches than what I see online, but what in paper looked awesome, isnt a constant reality. There are always dips in all games here and there, with Crysis being the worst offender.

 

[Pachinko]

Okay GAF, I was doing some quick research last night on a new computer build. I want something that can stay cool (idles at 40C or less)that also isn't as noisy as my current pc.

Now, when I was looking at various parts I saw a newer intel motherboard that was capable of supporting all the newer pentium chips - Intel d45sg was the model number, it also had the highspeed 1333mhz FSB and 2 16X PCIe slots for assumably crossfire or SLI. Is there any reason this would be a poor choice?

As for the processor , keeping in mind I'm not actually going to buy a new pc until next year sometime , I picked out a 3.0ghz core 2 quad that I think had a 12mb l2 cache. My bigger question though, what's the actual difference between a core 2 quad and a pentium core 2 extreme? looking at the specs I couldn't honestly find anything worthwhile, It looked like it was capable of 1600mhz fsb which to my knowledge isn't even usable on a motherboard right now so why is it 1200+ dollars ? Again though this computer is probably 6 months away from being bought so prices will drop quite a bit on everything and better parts will be out too.

Ram seems to be dirt cheap even now with 4 gigs of ddr 3 memory retailing for less then 160 canadian but here's a question relating to that, one of my mac loving friends(leidenfrost on GAF FYI) was explaining to me that having more then 2 gigs of ram is pointless because no cpu can use it of the 32 bit level... so is the quad core combined with 64 bit windows able to actually use 4 gigs of memory? another interesting thing was that if you have 4 gigs of ram and install a 1 gig or 2 gig video card that every bit of memory over 2 gigabytes is ignored to make space for the video memory, again is this just on 32 bit systems? For as cheap as memory is now the difference between 2 and 4 gigs is like 20 bucks so if the computer CAN use all 4 it's kind of silly not to just buy it.

Okay, this next one is 3 things tied together - power supply and hard drive and video card- so if I wanted to use a 2X video card solution how much power is good enough? Also I don't use a gigantic amount of hard drive space so I'd likely stick with a 250 or 500 gigabyte HDD and just 1 of them and I'd be good for this computers lifespan so I wouldn't need extra juice to power multiple drives so finally then what wattage would a need , keeping in mind noise and heat is a concern of mine.

Finally and most importantly given what I want of this build- the case/fan choice, what's the best choice there given the options above?

As far as price is concerned, while given the parts I picked out RIGHT NOW at bcom computers prices this is around a 1600 dollar build but again, I don't need or want this for half a year so I figure this exact setup will probably be around 1000-1200 when that time comes around. If there's any difference you guys can suggest, feel free. I'll keep it noted in my "computer build" text file and come back to it when I intend to make a purchase.

 

[Chiggs]

Well, the one game I do play often is WAR which just flat out has performance issues accross all cards, and its just bad optimization. I expected to hit 80fps on WAR, and sometimes I do, but then other times something as little as a Thunder spell effect can cripple my framerate. Note that I have only seen this effect in one boss only. Also, you can basically feel when the memory leak starts. If you travel around to many zones, the framerate will slowly start decreasing, and my memory usage goes to over 4GB's (luckily I have 8GB). So these are issues I couldnt have resolved with a better card, and this is why I am still happy that at least I got the best out there in the market, but as I said, its just not all rainbow and roses as I predicted. If a 5870x2 comes along, I will buy it, but I will never again set my expectations so high.

Hey, have you picked up Clear Sky? If so, how's your performance?

 

[godhandiscen]

More than 4GB on a 32 bit system is pointless. The addressable number is actually 3GB for 32 bits, but there are benefits to keeping your memory distributed evenly, so 4GB is the sweet spot for a 32 bit system. If you want to use more ram, 64 bits Vista is the way to go, and I highly recommend it.


edit: No point in looking at hardware right now if your purchase is so far away. Start looking with 1 or 2 months in advance.

Hey, have you picked up Clear Sky? If so, how's your performance?

No, I havent, and I am not picking up anything for a while. I reallty dont have much time any longer with school. If I am posting right now, is because my head hurts and I cannot study.

Is there a demo?

 

[Chiggs]

No, I havent, and I am not picking up anything for a while. I reallty dont have much time any longer with school. If I am posting right now, is because my head hurts and I cannot study.

Is there a demo?

No, there's no demo, and I feel your pain about school. Finishing up my degree, too.

 

[rampur]

man chespace, those ram prices on ibuypower are ridiculous

 

[Cheeto]

Well, the one game I do play often is WAR which just flat out has performance issues accross all cards, and its just bad optimization. I expected to hit 80fps on WAR, and sometimes I do, but then other times something as little as a Thunder spell effect can cripple my framerate. Note that I have only seen this effect in one boss only. Also, you can basically feel when the memory leak starts. If you travel around to many zones, the framerate will slowly start decreasing, and my memory usage goes to over 4GB's (luckily I have 8GB). So these are issues I couldnt have resolved with a better card, and this is why I am still happy that at least I got the best out there in the market, but as I said, its just not all rainbow and roses as I predicted. If a 5870x2 comes along, I will buy it, but I will never again set my expectations so high.


Also, my card is overclocked and it gets a little better benches than what I see online, but what in paper looked awesome, isnt a constant reality. There are always dips in all games here and there, with Crysis being the worst offender.

Check my post in the Official Warhammer topic about WAR's AF problems. I had the same issue with my 4850 until I turned off AF.

 

[godhandiscen]

Check my post in the Official Warhammer topic about WAR's AF problems. I had the same issue with my 4850 until I turned off AF.

hmm, but wont AF off mess up the image quality? I am scared to see WAR looking like WoW.

 

[Big Takeover]

Yeah, it looks like I'm going to leave the monitor out of the package, which brings the overall price down to $1769. Haha, it's such a slippery slope. I was targeting something under $1500 but I thought "with just a couple hundred bucks more, I could have this!" I was even looking at the 4870 X2 crossfire option.

Here's a question. If I want to crossfire the 4870 X2 in a year for whatever reason, would I need to buy the same brand of video card and as long as the chipset was the same, it'd work?

PC gaming is so simple and intuitive sometimes.

I see the 4870 1GB isn't yet offered at ibuypower. Let me look to see what the easiest/best/afforable way to approach that issue is.

I just got a chance to check out your options. I think probably without question your best bet is to order your computer with the cheapest ATI card they offer, and buy a 4870 1GB from Newegg. It's a piece of cake to swap cards. Couldn't be easier.

That makes for a swing of $230 from a 4870x2. The downside is you'll be stuck paying for a card you won't use, but it's still the best option. Buying the 4870 512MB from ibuypower only saves you $27. You may as well go with the 1GB at that point.

As you'll notice below, I've also suggested buying, and installing your own ram. That's a flat savings of $100 for 3 minutes of work. I've also added a 650w power supply to your order. That should be enough to cover you if you were to add a second card down the road. If you feel, or someone suggests 650 won't be enough to cover 2 4870s, buy a bigger ps. Just don't order it through ibuypower as the prices ramp dramatically after 650w.

Case ( Gigabyte Poseidon 310 Aluminum Gaming Tower Case w/420W Power Supply Silver )
Case Lighting ( None )
Power Supply Corsair CMPSU-650TX Power Supply (+ $108)
Processor ( [=== Quad Core ===] Intel Core 2 Quad Processor Q9550 (4x 2.83GHz/12MB L2 Cache/1333FSB) Free 4GB Pen Drive )
Processor Cooling ( [New !!!] INTEL Certified Liquid CPU Cooling System kit )
Motherboard ( [CrossFire] Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, USB 2.0, IEEE-1394, Dual PCI-E MB )
OMIT (- $170) Memory ( 4 GB [1 GB X4] DDR2-800 PC6400 Memory Module Corsair-Value or Major Brand )
OMIT (- $530) Video Card ( ATI Radeon HD 4870-X2 DDR5 2GB PCI-Express x16 ) Replace w/ ATI HD 3450
Video Card Brand ( Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA )
Hard Drive ( 500 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 16M Cache] )
2nd Hard Drive ( None )
External Hard Drives [USB 2.0/eSATA] ( None )
CD/DVD Drive ( [** Special !!! ***] LG 20X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive Black )
CD-RW/DVD-RW Drive ( None )
Sound Card ( 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard )
Speaker System ( 600W PMPO 3 PCS Super Bass Subwoofer Speaker System )
Network Card ( Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100) )
Floppy Drive ( None )
OMIT (- $189) Monitor ( LCD Monitor [--- Special ---] 20.1" LCD 16:10 Wide WSXGA HD(HDCP) Monitor Support DVI Video up to 1080P(HDMI) )
2nd Monitor ( None )
Keyboard ( PS/2 104 Key Windows 98 Keyboard Beige )
Mouse ( Logitech Optical Internet Mouse Black )
USB 2.0 Accessories ( Built-in USB 2.0 Ports )
Meter Display ( Thermal Temperature LCD Display Blue )
Flash Media Reader/Writer ( 12-In-1 Internal Flash Media Card Reader/Writer Black )
Operation System ( None- Pre-formatted Hard Drive Only )
Media Center Remote Control & TV Tuner ( None )
Case Round Cable ( Professional wiring for all cables inside the system tower )
Case Round Cable ( Rounded Cables for Floppy/HDD/CD/DVD/CD-RW/DVD-RW Drives )
USB Flash Drive ( None )
MP3 Player ( None )
Video Camera ( None )
Headset ( None )
Power Protection ( None )
Printer ( None )
Warranty ( Warranty Service Standard 3-Year Limited Warranty + Lifetime Technical Support )
Rush Service ( Rush Service Fee (not shipping fee) No Rush, Ship Out in 5~10 Business Days )

Sub Total: $989.00

+ ATI HD4870 1GB - $300 free shipping
+ Acer monitor - $195 free shipping
+ G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) Memory - $72 free shipping

Total - $1556

That's a hotrod of a computer. You'll be thrilled with it. You also won't be paying for unneeded performance, and your options will be fully open for the future.

 

[ahoyhoy]

I'm a little concerend about my PC's performance. I built my rig last month, expecting to play Crysis on High/Very High with good FPS, but right now I'm at the part where you have to disable the Anti Air tanks and I'm getting 25-30 FPS on High and about 15-20 FPS on Very High with x2 AA. Here are my specs:

E8500 OC'd to 3.8ghz
Visiontek 4870 512 Mb running 8.9 drivers
4 Gb Gskill RAM DDR2 800

Anyone know of any tweaks to increase performance? Or maybe it's just Crysis that sucks, and Warhead will perform better?

 

[Hazaro]

I'm a little concerend about my PC's performance. I built my rig last month, expecting to play Crysis on High/Very High with good FPS, but right now I'm at the part where you have to disable the Anti Air tanks and I'm getting 25-30 FPS on High and about 15-20 FPS on Very High with x2 AA. Here are my specs:

E8500 OC'd to 3.8ghz
Visiontek 4870 512 Mb running 8.9 drivers
4 Gb Gskill RAM DDR2 800

Anyone know of any tweaks to increase performance? Or maybe it's just Crysis that sucks, and Warhead will perform better?

Since it's a 4870 I wouldn't chalk it up as much, but you might be capping that 512MB.

That or ATi haet Crysis.

 

[Zzoram]

I'm a little concerend about my PC's performance. I built my rig last month, expecting to play Crysis on High/Very High with good FPS, but right now I'm at the part where you have to disable the Anti Air tanks and I'm getting 25-30 FPS on High and about 15-20 FPS on Very High with x2 AA. Here are my specs:

E8500 OC'd to 3.8ghz
Visiontek 4870 512 Mb running 8.9 drivers
4 Gb Gskill RAM DDR2 800

Anyone know of any tweaks to increase performance? Or maybe it's just Crysis that sucks, and Warhead will perform better?

What resolution? At 1920x1200 the 512mb could be limiting. Play without AA, you don't need it if you're at least 1680x1050 resolution.

It's just Crysis, don't worry. Every other game is nowhere near as demanding.

 

[Zzoram]

Since it's a 4870 I wouldn't chalk it up as much, but you might be capping that 512MB.

That or ATi haet Crysis.

Actually Crysisi hates ATI, since nVidia paid a lot of money for nVidia specific optimizations and their logo to play at the beginning.

 

[Pachinko]

It's just Crysis, don't worry. Every other game is nowhere near as demanding.

This is the problem though , everyone and their dog is upgrading the shit out of their PC's for crysis, because the assumption is if your computer can pull off crysis really well then nothing else matters because it'll run everything. I'm sure a forthcoming driver update will bring the 4870 up to snuff with that game though, it clearly has the power.

 

[godhandiscen]

I'm a little concerend about my PC's performance. I built my rig last month, expecting to play Crysis on High/Very High with good FPS, but right now I'm at the part where you have to disable the Anti Air tanks and I'm getting 25-30 FPS on High and about 15-20 FPS on Very High with x2 AA. Here are my specs:

E8500 OC'd to 3.8ghz
Visiontek 4870 512 Mb running 8.9 drivers
4 Gb Gskill RAM DDR2 800

Anyone know of any tweaks to increase performance? Or maybe it's just Crysis that sucks, and Warhead will perform better?

x2 AA on Very High? Are you shitting me? I didn't even expect that with my 4870x2. Crysis implementation of AA sucks balls. No card can do AA on Crysis without losing a third of its performance.

Check my post in the Official Warhammer topic about WAR's AF problems. I had the same issue with my 4850 until I turned off AF.

I LOVE YOU. I am hitting a constant framerate avobe 60fps now. I still see some dip whit that stupid stupid thunder spell, but even then it feels way above 30. You were right, WAR already has AF applied to it.

 

[chespace]

thanks BCD2. Sounds like a plan. I will call ibuypower on Monday and find out if I can omit a bunch of shit. Also, should I still go with a 4870 1GB if Crysis is my main reason for building this rig in the first place?

Sounds like I should get a 260Gtx core 216 ... Or what? Nvidia is the way to go right?

 

[Fireblend]

Well GAF, it seems I'm now in the market for a new PC. I've seen some great $900-$1000 builds around so that's what I'll be aiming for. Actually, I'd use one of the builds posted here recently if it weren't for my unsureness. So, I'll take one and modify it (or leave it as it is if GAF deems it so).

So, using as a base TheWolf's build from last page:

COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA

CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail

ASUS EAH4850/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail

GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

What would anyone do with it with say, $100? I'm talking mainly about the video card since well, I had planned on the E8400 since a while ago and I know nothing about power supplies... no problem with the HD/RAM/Case either. To be honest I think I'd feel more confident about the build with a Nvidia card, unless someone is able to talk me out of it. I've never owned an ATI card so I know nothing about them and for a good while I had been eyeing the 8800GT for a while, but now I have no idea how it compares with the HD4850, or if there's something better to get for a little extra, ATI or Nvidia.

Anyone care to help? I'm no computer illiterate, but I want to make sure my first build is gonna be a decent one, and I don't have enough knowledge to make the call on the video card (or some other of the components? I feel confident about those though).

 

[Big Takeover]

thanks BCD2. Sounds like a plan. I will call ibuypower on Monday and find out if I can omit a bunch of shit. Also, should I still go with a 4870 1GB if Crysis is my main reason for building this rig in the first place?

Sounds like I should get a 260Gtx core 216 ... Or what? Nvidia is the way to go right?

Anything north of a 260/4870 is gravy for anything, including Crysis at the resolution you're looking at. It's really about how much, if any, AA do you want to buy. The returns, especially considering the cost, are diminishing. Not to mention Crysis is such a one-off. You're crushing everything else on the market with 4870 1GB.

4870 1GB vs. the Core 216 GTX260 - From the looks of it the 4870 wins pretty much across the board, including Crysis.

 

[Chiggs]

4870 1GB vs. the Core 216 GTX260 - From the looks of it the 4870 wins pretty much across the board, including Crysis.

I posted two other reviews which show different results than what Anandtech got.

 

[Big Takeover]

Oh yeah? Cool, I'll take a look. Thanks.

 

[Chiggs]

http://hothardware.com/Articles/PowerColor-PCS-HD-4870-1GB-GDDR5/

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=2684

 

[Big Takeover]

http://hothardware.com/Articles/PowerColor-PCS-HD-4870-1GB-GDDR5/

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=3&id=2684

I mean who knows, right? Let's just call them similar. I'd buy the 4870, but hey, that's just me.

 

[bee]

they're neck and neck, the core 216 is way overpriced at the moment but when they drop its just gonna be personal preference between the two cards. always go off actual real world user experience rather than a benchmarking site

 

[chespace]

Now I'm assembling a system on Cyberpowerpc.com and have come up with this core package. It doesn't show a Corsair CMPSU-650TX PSU upgrade but it's in the price. This is an experiment to try and get core components in a box, then order from newegg.com the memory, monitor, and video card. It also doesn't list the Logitech (BLACK) X-540 70Watts 5.1 Configuration Speaker System, which is also in the price.

$989.00
(before all applicable rebates)


CASE: CoolerMaster Centurion 590 RC-590 Mid-Tower 420W Case
CPU: (Quad-Core)Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q9550 @ 2.83GHz 1333FSB 12MB L2 Cache 64-bit
MOTHERBOARD: ($20 off Mail-in Rebate) MSI P7N SLI-FI 750i SLI Chipset LGA775 Supports LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2/800 Mainboard w/GbLAN, USB2.0, &7.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)512MB PC6400 DDR2/800 Memory (Corsair or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: NONE
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
VIDEO CARD 3: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (500GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Optical Drive: (Special Price) LG 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: 3D WAVE ON-BOARD 5.1 SOUND CARD

Then with BCD2's recommendations...

+ ATI HD4870 1GB - $300 free shipping
+ Acer monitor - $195 free shipping
+ G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) Memory - $72 free shipping

Seems like a much better deal than iBuypower.com.

I'm still undecided whether to go nvidia or ATI. I want Crysis to kick ass. That is all.

 

[bee]

your spending a decent amount of money so buy a soundcard! x-fi music/gamer or xonar dx/d1, despite what people on here say the difference in sound quality between onboard and a proper card is huge

also acer make cheap tat, buy a proper monitor, a samsung 22inch maybe

 

[Big Takeover]

Looks good.

One thing I forgot to mention, and it's pretty important, is if you want to leave the door open for sli/crossfire, you'll need to pair the flavors of the motherboard, and the graphics card. Meaning: Nforce motherboards (like the one you just listed) with Nvidia cards, and Intel motherboards (like the MSI p45 listed right above it at Cyberpowerpc) with ATI cards.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Dont know why people are complaining about the 4870x2. The new 8.9 drivers are big improvements over the 8.8. It can run crysis at 30 fps maxed out if you have the right cpu/ram combo, and it will be able to handle the next year or so of games at maxed out settings. A lot of power in that puppy.

 

[SapientWolf]

your spending a decent amount of money so buy a soundcard! x-fi music/gamer or xonar dx/d1, despite what people on here say the difference in sound quality between onboard and a proper card is huge

also acer make cheap tat, buy a proper monitor, a samsung 22inch maybe

Creative is out. They gimped their Vista drivers, and most of their recent sound cards have been skimpy on features. On the other hand, onboard sound has been steadily improving. 5.1 surround sound and digital out are now standard features, and for a gamer, what you hear isn't as important as where you hear it. You're not going to be analyzing how clear the highs are when there is a horde of demon zombie ninjas sneaking up behind you.

Does that price include the components that you added and an OS? Because that's not a bad deal if it does.

 

[chespace]

Looks good.

One thing I forgot to mention, and it's pretty important, is if you want to leave the door open for sli/crossfire, you'll need to pair the flavors of the motherboard, and the graphics card. Meaning: Nforce motherboards (like the one you just listed) with Nvidia cards, and Intel motherboards (like the MSI p45 listed right above it at Cyberpowerpc) with ATI cards.

Noted and changed.

I was trying to build a system from scratch using Newegg and couldn't actually get a better deal.

If you were to build a system from the ground up using only newegg, what parts would you get?

Sapientwolf: No OS, but I already have an unopened copy of Vista Ultimate that I never installed sitting here. I'm going to go with the onboard sound I think.

 

[bee]

Creative is out. They gimped their Vista drivers, and most of their recent sound cards have been skimpy on features. On the other hand, onboard sound has been steadily improving. 5.1 surround sound and digital out are now standard features, and for a gamer, what you hear isn't as important as where you hear it. You're not going to be analyzing how clear the highs are when there is a horde of demon zombie ninjas sneaking up behind you.

ahh your one of those people eh, the latest creative drivers are fine if you'd of tried them then maybe you'd know

onboard this onboard that, i've heard what they've all got to offer, none of them even come close to a decent soundcard. i only use headphones, sennheiser hd555's, nothing special but why spend all that money on the visuals and then nothing on the sound, it makes no sense

 

[Chiggs]

Dont know why people are complaining about the 4870x2. It can run crysis at 30 fps maxed out if you have the right cpu/ram combo, and it will be able to handle the next year or so of games at maxed out settings. A lot of power in that puppy.

That's really not impressive. The 4870X2 has so much power that it should be around 45fps @1080p. But it's not, and the drivers are most likely the culprit, unless (bullshit speculation alert) there's some sort of hardware issue which ATI isn't telling us about, which I don't think is the case.

And looking at the 8.9 driver release notes, all I see are fixes, not performance boosts. Compare that with Nvidia's latest:

Includes several 3D application performance improvements. The following are examples of improvements measured with v178.13 WHQL versus v175.19 WHQL driver:
Single GPU increases up to 11% in 3DMark Vantage (performance preset)
Single GPU increases up to 11% in Assassin's Creed DX10
Single GPU increases up to 15% in Bioshock DX10
Single GPU increases up to 15% in Call of Duty 4
Single GPU increases up to 8% in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
2-way SLI increases up to 7% in Bioshock DX10
2-way SLI increases up to 10% in Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts DX10
2-way SLI increases up to 12% in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
2-way SLI increases up to 10% in World in Conflict DX10

Now that is a driver. ATI could learn a thing or two from Nvidia when it comes to driver development, and Nvidia could learn a thing or two from ATI when it comes to cost effective designs and how to implement AA. :lol

 

[SapientWolf]

ahh your one of those people eh, the latest creative drivers are fine if you'd of tried them then maybe you'd know

onboard this onboard that, i've heard what they've all got to offer, none of them even come close to a decent soundcard. i only use headphones, sennheiser hd555's, nothing special but why spend all that money on the visuals and then nothing on the sound, it makes no sense

Given that statement, I'm just going to agree to disagree and drop the argument.

 

[bee]

Given that statement, I'm just going to agree to disagree and drop the argument.

its best yeah, afterall you think creative gimped their vista x-fi drivers, oh wait that was their drivers for the 6 year old audigy series

 

[chespace]

Where can I find a GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 on the internet?

 

[Chiggs]

Hey, look at this crap:

http://www.pureoverclock.com/story.php?id=2963

The class action against Nvidia suggesting that it colluded with AMD to fix GPU prices is nearing an end. As Custom PC report, Nvidia will be paying its way out of this mess.

The settlement agreement is detailed in an 8-K form that was filed on 24 September. The agreement calls for Nvidia to pay $850,000 into a total fund of $1.7 million, with AMD/ATI presumably paying in another $850,000 to make up the other half, although we’re waiting for AMD to confirm this. However, the 8-K form says that the agreement is still ‘subject to court approval.’ If the agreement is approved, then Nvidia says that it ‘would dispose of all claims and appeals raised by the certified class in the Action against Nvidia.’

The 8-K form also details a settlement agreement with the individual plaintiffs who brought the case to court, saying that Nvidia will ‘pay $112,500 in exchange for a dismissal of all claims and appeals related to the Action raised by the individual indirect purchaser plaintiffs.’ This settlement, says Nvidia, ‘is not subject to the approval of the District Court.’ According to the form, this agreement has already been accepted, and the plaintiffs have now ‘dismissed their claims and withdrawn their appeal of the class certification ruling.’

 

[Chiggs]

Where can I find a GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 on the internet?

New Egg

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=core+216

 

[Big Takeover]

Noted and changed.

I was trying to build a system from scratch using Newegg and couldn't actually get a better deal.

If you were to build a system from the ground up using only newegg, what parts would you get?

Sapientwolf: No OS, but I already have an unopened copy of Vista Ultimate that I never installed sitting here. I'm going to go with the onboard sound I think.

If want me to spec one out, I'd be happy to do it, but to tell you the truth I don't have any real issues with what you're looking at. Any savings I would probably dump back in for a nicer KB/mouse, and maybe one of those speedy dual platter WD drives. Not really make-or-break stuff, but certainly useful.

Actually, I should really look to be sure money wise it's on par. If you want a list, I'll do a list.

 

[chespace]

Coming from a 4870x2, owner here. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THE CARD! Get a 4870 1GB and call it a day. I feel like I wasted money on so much "power" that isnt even used, and the one game that actually requires the power, is the one game on which the 4870x2 fails horribly, Crysis. I actually paid for a 3 year warranty on the card, and with shipping, it all came close to $700. I had the money, so I do not regret my purchase, but it doesn't "tame" Crysis which makes all this unlimited power worthless imo. Ohh, and WAR doesnt even run that well on that card, but that is due to WAR's horrible optimization issues, but I swear I was getting the same performance with my 3870x2. If you really want something future proof, buy a 4870 1GB and save the rest of the money for a better card later that will be designed with newer games in mind. I really hope the drivers improve the performance of the 4870x2, or that it at least excells at FarCry.

This reviewer disagrees... or at least his benchmarks do. The 4870X2 clearly outperforms everything else when it comes to Crysis at "very high" settings.

BCD2, list please. Thanks.

I'm gonna figure all this out this weekend and pull the trigger on Monday. I want to play both Crysis games so friggin' bad.

 

[Zzoram]

Hey, look at this crap:

http://www.pureoverclock.com/story.php?id=2963

None of the consumers affected will ever see that money. It'll be going purely to the lawyers, as in every class action suit.

 

[VaLiancY]

Intel Q6600
ASUS P5Q Deluxe
EVGA GTX 260 Core 216
OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI 700W
CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3750330AS 750GB 7200 RPM
LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner
ASUS Xonar D2X 7.1 Channels PCI Express Interface Sound Card

Discuss. Am I missing anything?

 

[TheHeretic]

Apart from a psu that will be mostly wasted, its looking good.

 

[MarkMan]

I want one of those snazzy 2-3 lb laptops that are out now... Either the...

Dell 9
ASUS EEE
ACER Aspireone

What do you guys think? I have a business trip early next month and need one asap. It'll be mainly for work correspondence.

 

[Chiggs]

This reviewer disagrees... or at least his benchmarks do. The 4870X2 clearly outperforms everything else when it comes to Crysis at "very high" settings.

BCD2, list please. Thanks.

I'm gonna figure all this out this weekend and pull the trigger on Monday. I want to play both Crysis games so friggin' bad.

That's just it, though. The 4870X2 should be doing so much more.

 

[Lo-Volt]

I want one of those snazzy 2-3 lb laptops that are out now... Either the...

Dell 9
ASUS EEE
ACER Aspireone

What do you guys think? I have a business trip early next month and need one asap. It'll be mainly for work correspondence.

Some members of GAF are fans of the MSI Wind, too.

 

[SapientWolf]

its best yeah, afterall you think creative gimped their vista x-fi drivers, oh wait that was their drivers for the 6 year old audigy series

Ok, I don't want to argue over this but I can't let people spread lies,

According to Creative's own FAQ, sound cards from the X-Fi and Audigy families are incapable of decoding Dolby Digital or DTS, due to the fact that "these functions are not supported at driver level in Windows Vista." This isn't true. When two of the driver files from a standard X-Fi card are replaced with two driver files drawn from a Dell-specific driver available at the company's support web site, DTS and DD decoding immediately reappear as options and function correctly.

Source

And even if it was only the Audigy drivers that would not make it okay for them to do this:

Creative purposedly modified the Audigy drivers to disable some features when Vista is detected and also purposedly introduced some bugs to prevent some XP utilities from running.

The fixed X-Fi drivers were released last month. X-Fi owners had to go 2 years without DD or DTS encoding, and DVD audio playback if they didn't use custom drivers. Creative also tried to charge Audigy owners $9.99 for EAX drivers that worked in Vista, but people went apoplectic over it so they backed down. They also sent a cease and desist to the modder who fixed the problems but that didn't go over well either.

More of the story here and here, for those who didn't know about it already. Even though I own a Creative sound card I have stopped supporting their company and stopped recommending them because of this.

 

[chespace]

Having done a little research on my own and obviously having been injected with a shitload of knowledge here courtesy of Gaffers, I'm now laughing my ass off surfing endless numbers of "custom gaming PC" company websites out there.

Some truly ridiculous prices with laughable hyperbole to boot. Jesus, thank god for internet forums.

 

[Pachinko]

yeah doing a bit of research on the internet seems to do wonders for this sort of thing. Also the reason I'm curious now about a pc I likely won't be buying for 6 months or more is simply that I tend to buy what's considered pretty high end today when it's behind the curve and cheaper. So knowing what I should grab is just something nice to keep in mind.

My first computer I did 0 research before buying because I didn't have the internet to research with , I pretty much went in looking for something to browse the internet(say a pontiac sunfire with no options) with and wound up with a Hyundai tiburon(seemed nice but none of it's specs helped it's cause in places where it mattered). My current PC I did a bunch of research, had some goals in mind and well, it's lasted me this long and still runs everything other then crysis rather well but it seems prices have really dropped for the most part , ram , videocards, high end monitors. The only thing that still seems rather expensive is the fastest processor.

 

[Blackface]

People need to stop using Crysis as a gaming benchmark. It's a horribly coded game that works better with certain companies drivers better then others. Warhead will be a much better benchmark, and will look as good if not better.

For what Crysis is, it should run better on a 4870X2. It's not the graphic cards that are the problem, it's the unoptimized game.