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[Ikuu]

$600 for a CPU just seems insane to me, I mean really?

http://www.guru3d.com/article/cpu-scaling-in-games-with-quad-core-processors/1

 

[Big Takeover]

Yeah, the cpu... it's fuckin' 600 bones. This is just tossing money out the window.

 

[chespace]

$600 for a CPU just seems insane to me, I mean really?

http://www.guru3d.com/article/cpu-scaling-in-games-with-quad-core-processors/1

Great article. Hmmm.......choices!

 

[SapientWolf]

Yeah, the cpu... it's fuckin' 600 bones. This is just tossing money out the window.

Especially considering that Nehelem is releasing next month. I'm surprised people are not waiting to build their new $1000+ PC around Intel's new chipset. Some websites are reporting that there will be no more new Core 2 Quad chips after the 8300, which means you will have to upgrade your mobo and buy new memory if you want to upgrade your processor in a year or two.

 

[Zzoram]

Great article. Hmmm.......choices!

Just get the Q9450 with no heatsinkfan I mentioned above, since you're buying a heatsinkfan anyways.

http://www.ncixus.com/products/29316/EU80569PJ067N/Intel/

It's $12 cheaper than the retail box with HSF.


OR


Wait for the Nehalem CPUs on the new motherboards (P55 probably ideal for you, X58 is going to be insanely priced). However, this means you'll need DDR3 RAM.

 

[chespace]

Just get the Q9450 with no heatsinkfan I mentioned above, since you're buying a heatsinkfan anyways.

http://www.ncixus.com/products/29316/EU80569PJ067N/Intel/

It's $12 cheaper than the retail box with HSF.


OR


Wait for the Nehalem CPUs on the new motherboards (P55 probably ideal for you, X58 is going to be insanely priced). However, this means you'll need DDR3 RAM.

After reading the guru3d article about CPU scaling and games, I wonder if quad core 2 is really the way to go? Wouldn't I be no worse off just getting this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036

 

[Big Takeover]

Ahhh, it's nice to see you coming full circle ;-)

E8400, 4870 1GB @ 1680x1050m for $1200, or spend TWO AND A HALF GRAND on what amounts to fluff. I hear the middle ground ain't half bad either ;-)

 

[Zzoram]

After reading the guru3d article about CPU scaling and games, I wonder if quad core 2 is really the way to go? Wouldn't I be no worse off just getting this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036

Being price conscious, I bought:

E8400 @ 3.0GHz
Mushkin HP2 4GB DDR2 800mhz
Gigabyte EP35-DS3L Motherboard
Seagate 7200rpm 500GB SATA
Antec 900 ATX Gaming Case
Visiontek HD4870 512mb
Antec Earthwatts 500W PSU
Samsung 2253BW
Cheapo Logitech wired keyboard
Logitech G5 wired laser mouse
reused old speakers
Surge protector

It came to ~$1400 AFTER tax (Canadian).

Right now you could get what I got, but get a better Asus or Gigabyte P45 based motherboard, E8500, HD4870 1GB, and Corsair 550W PSU for the same money probably. I can run Crysis Warhead on Enthusiast at 1680x1050 (my 22" monitor's resolution) and get decent framerate in DX9 mode, around 32fps average. The 1GB version of the HD4870 is a bit faster, around 10%. I would still probably recommend the Q9450 @ 2.66GHz for ~$325 since it'll overclock to 3GHz and a quadcore will be more futureproof (remember Alan Wake?).

Just remember, Crysis isn't the only game you'll play. Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2 will run and look better on your PC than on the Xbox 360. I have an Xbox 360, but any game I want that is also on PC, I plan to get the PC version.

 

[SapientWolf]

After reading the guru3d article about CPU scaling and games, I wonder if quad core 2 is really the way to go? Wouldn't I be no worse off just getting this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036

Well, you have to remember that a year or two ago dual core processors were getting outperformed by their single core counterparts in most titles. You don't want to be stuck with halved framerates in a year when the new titles being released are programmed to use all four cores.

 

[Big Takeover]

Being price conscious, I bought:

E8400 @ 3.0GHz
Mushkin HP2 4GB DDR2 800mhz
Seagate 7200rpm 500GB SATA
Antec 900 ATX Gaming Case
Visiontek HD4870 512mb
Antec Earthwatts 500W PSU
Samsung 2253BW
Cheapo Logitech wired keyboard
Logitech G5 wired laser mouse
reused old speakers
Surge protector

It came to ~$1400 after tax.

And it rocks, right?! Tell him how much it rocks!

The voices of reason shall prevail!

 

[Blackface]

Well, you have to remember that a year or two ago dual core processors were getting outperformed by their single core counterparts in most titles. You don't want to be stuck with halved framerates in a year when the new titles being released are programmed to use all four cores.

Instead of buying a $400 Quad Core now, that will be out dated in a year. He could buy a $160 E8400 cpu, that outperforms any quad core in or around it's price range on 99 percent of games currently. Then grab the same quad core he wanted to get for $400, in a year for $160.

 

[Zzoram]

What the guy above this post said.

Instead of upgrading to Nehalem in 2 years, I might find a cheap old Q9650 and grab whatever the latest awesome $300 video card is, and reuse everything else.

Doing that, you can delay doing a full rebuild and make your desktop last 4 years, with the mid-cycle upgrade.

 

[Chiggs]

After reading the guru3d article about CPU scaling and games, I wonder if quad core 2 is really the way to go? Wouldn't I be no worse off just getting this?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036

Boooooooooo!

Well, you have to remember that a year or two ago dual core processors were getting outperformed by their single core counterparts in most titles. You don't want to be stuck with halved framerates in a year when the new titles being released are programmed to use all four cores.

.

 

[SRG01]

Instead of buying a $400 Quad Core now, that will be out dated in a year. He could buy a $160 E8400 cpu, that outperforms any quad core in or around it's price range on 99 percent of games currently. Then grab the same quad core he wanted to get for $400, in a year for $160.

Yes, this is it. I recommended the E8400 or the E5200 a few pages ago because it's a much better buy than getting a Quad-nine at current prices.

There's seriously no point in getting a quad core since Nehalem is coming out pretty soon.

 

[Zzoram]

I wonder if Che can get the computer tax exempt as a work expense :lol

 

[zoku88]

On desktops, the 8800GT and 8800GT 512 were die shrinks of the original 8800GTS 320/640 and 8800GTX. On the desktop, the 9800GT and 9800GTX+ are the same die size as 8800GT and 8800GTS.

I see, but I was replying to a post about laptops.

 

[DarthWoo]

Here's pretty much my final system. All I have left to order is the SATA hard drive and maybe a new OS.

-Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200 2.5GHz (Hoping to OC to 3.0)
-Rosewill RCX-Z775-EX R Cooler (Though some say the E5200 OCs to 3.0 easy with stock cooler, I just feel better having this.)
-ASUS P5Q Pro
-Patriot 4GB (2x2GB) 800MHz RAM
-EVGA Geforce 9600GT SSC Edition
-PC Power & Cooling 610W PSU
-ASUS DVD-ROM (I've always found that burners tend to take longer to read discs than just a plain drive for some reason, even if they're rated at the same read speed, plus I prefer to have a separate drive for just everyday non-burning needs.)
-LG DVD-RW
-80GB Seagate Barracuda HDD (One of my old PATA hard drives I'm reusing.)
-160GB Maxtor HDD (Another old hard drive, but it's never been used since I bought it a few years ago, so I hope it wasn't DOA back then. )
-Antec SX1300 case (From my old system. Has four case fans, one front inward, one side inward, two rear outward.)

Would it be worth it to get Vista Home Premium 64-bit for a system of this spec? I read all the back and forth on the issue, and I know that 4GB seems to be the borderline. Apparently it's just barely too high to be used completely by a 32-bit OS, but only just barely enough for Vista? I'm planning to just get the system builder version from Newegg for $100, but is there any cheaper way?

I've heard that with an upgrade version, you can actually install it without entering the key, making it think it's actually a trial version, and then install it on top of itself with the key, thus making it full? Is it true that upgrade versions of Vista otherwise require you to still install your prior OS and then install Vista on top?

Have I forgotten anything important for my system? If I get an $80 HDD and Windows Vista, I'll have spent around $650 after rebates and shipping, hopefully that sounds about right.

 

[SRG01]

Here's pretty much my final system. All I have left to order is the SATA hard drive and maybe a new OS.

-Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200 2.5GHz (Hoping to OC to 3.0)
-Rosewill RCX-Z775-EX R Cooler (Though some say the E5200 OCs to 3.0 easy with stock cooler, I just feel better having this.)
-ASUS P5Q Pro
-Patriot 4GB (2x2GB) 800MHz RAM
-EVGA Geforce 9600GT SSC Edition
-PC Power & Cooling 610W PSU
-ASUS DVD-ROM (I've always found that burners tend to take longer to read discs than just a plain drive for some reason, even if they're rated at the same read speed, plus I prefer to have a separate drive for just everyday non-burning needs.)
-LG DVD-RW
-80GB Seagate Barracuda HDD (One of my old PATA hard drives I'm reusing.)
-160GB Maxtor HDD (Another old hard drive, but it's never been used since I bought it a few years ago, so I hope it wasn't DOA back then. )
-Antec SX1300 case (From my old system. Has four case fans, one front inward, one side inward, two rear outward.)

Would it be worth it to get Vista Home Premium 64-bit for a system of this spec? I read all the back and forth on the issue, and I know that 4GB seems to be the borderline. Apparently it's just barely too high to be used completely by a 32-bit OS, but only just barely enough for Vista? I'm planning to just get the system builder version from Newegg for $100, but is there any cheaper way?

I've heard that with an upgrade version, you can actually install it without entering the key, making it think it's actually a trial version, and then install it on top of itself with the key, thus making it full? Is it true that upgrade versions of Vista otherwise require you to still install your prior OS and then install Vista on top?

Have I forgotten anything important for my system? If I get an $80 HDD and Windows Vista, I'll have spent around $650 after rebates and shipping, hopefully that sounds about right.

... Why are you getting a 9600GT? And a 610W PSU?

 

[bee]

-ASUS DVD-ROM (I've always found that burners tend to take longer to read discs than just a plain drive for some reason, even if they're rated at the same read speed, plus I prefer to have a separate drive for just everyday non-burning needs.)
-LG DVD-RW
-80GB Seagate Barracuda HDD (One of my old PATA hard drives I'm reusing.)
-160GB Maxtor HDD (Another old hard drive, but it's never been used since I bought it a few years ago, so I hope it wasn't DOA back then. )

all 4 of those are pata? new boards only support upto a max of 2 ide devices

 

[zoku88]

... Why are you getting a 9600GT? And a 610W PSU?

Lol, downgrade the PSU and get a 4850 with the money saved instead ^^

 

[Pachinko]

So I did a bunch of research into this Nehelam core that's coming out from intel and I think it's pretty damn obvious why people are buying new pc's right now, the processor isn't out until october/november and it's 1000 bucks , sure it's most definetly faster but generally most of us here seem to prefer sticking with computer budgets around the 1500 mark , spending 2/3rds of that on a fancy new processor doesn't leave a whole lot of room for much else.

On the plus side for those that don't mind socket 775 the prices will continue to drop and checking benchmarks you can get a very smooth running crysis at high res without too much money if that's truly all you care about.

 

[SRG01]

Lol, downgrade the PSU and get a 4850 with the money saved instead ^^

Pretty much. :lol That rig will look exactly like the one I've got planned out too!

So I did a bunch of research into this Nehelam core that's coming out from intel and I think it's pretty damn obvious why people are buying new pc's right now, the processor isn't out until october/november and it's 1000 bucks , sure it's most definetly faster but generally most of us here seem to prefer sticking with computer budgets around the 1500 mark , spending 2/3rds of that on a fancy new processor doesn't leave a whole lot of room for much else.

On the plus side for those that don't mind socket 775 the prices will continue to drop and checking benchmarks you can get a very smooth running crysis at high res without too much money if that's truly all you care about.

Many reviewers even admitted that most gamers would not see benefits from Nehalem initially because much of the design is aimed towards the server space.

 

[DarthWoo]

The optical drives are SATA, otherwise I would have used my old PATA optical drives. As for the PSU, it was on sale and highly recommended as a good quality one that I can keep using as I later upgrade my system. As for the 9600GT, it was $60 after rebate, and I didn't really plan on buying anything that needed the more expensive cards.

 

[bee]

So I did a bunch of research into this Nehelam core that's coming out from intel and I think it's pretty damn obvious why people are buying new pc's right now, the processor isn't out until october/november and it's 1000 bucks , sure it's most definetly faster but generally most of us here seem to prefer sticking with computer budgets around the 1500 mark , spending 2/3rds of that on a fancy new processor doesn't leave a whole lot of room for much else.

On the plus side for those that don't mind socket 775 the prices will continue to drop and checking benchmarks you can get a very smooth running crysis at high res without too much money if that's truly all you care about.

nah thats the high end one

Intel Core i7 920, Price (in thousand unit quantities) $284

 

[SRG01]

As for the 9600GT, it was $60 after rebate, and I didn't really plan on buying anything that needed the more expensive cards.

If it's seriously $60 after rebate, why not just go for the 8800GT? I believe it still beats the 9600GT in performance and it's around the same price point.

Seriously, the 9600GT is perhaps the worst value you can get right now. Remember Warren Buffet: It's better to buy something good at a fair price than it is to buy something fair at a low price.

 

[Chiggs]

nah thats the high end one

Intel Core i7 920, Price (in thousand unit quantities) $284

Too bad i7 isn't all that impressive with gaming.

 

[Blackface]

Too bad i7 isn't all that impressive with gaming.

The first versions, as far as we know, are just core 2 duo's with built in memory controllers in terms of gaming.

I have the money to upgrade but won't for a year or so.

 

[DarthWoo]

The cheapest 8800GT I ever saw while looking around was just barely less than twice the cost, and even then from a manufacturer I'd never heard of. 9600GT is great for what I need, and I can always get a better PCI-e 2.0 card later when my finances improve.

Anyway, did anyone have any advice regarding my original questions about whether it would be worthwhile to use Vista now or just keep my XP on this system, and if I missed any critical parts? I forgot to list them, but yes, I do have a monitor, keyboard, mouse. I'm going to throw my old Soundblaster Live in there as well, unless the performance hit from using the onboard sound would be so negligible as to not be noticeable.

 

[Blizzard]

The computer you guys helped build is nice. But, I just found what -looks- kinda like a stuck pixel, but is actually dust or something behind the monitor...and I even keep it covered when not in use. Ugh.

 

[zoku88]

The computer you guys helped build is nice. But, I just found what -looks- kinda like a stuck pixel, but is actually dust or something behind the monitor...and I even keep it covered when not in use. Ugh.

Some manufacturers have warranties that cover that.

EDIT: Oops, didnt finished reading.

Was the dust there before you got it?

 

[Blizzard]

Some manufacturers have warranties that cover that.

EDIT: Oops, didnt finished reading.

Was the dust there before you got it?

I didn't notice it until today, and I thought I'd looked pretty carefully...I can't really see it unless I'm close than like two feet away from the monitor.

*edit* Just saw another one, closer to the middle of the display...not sure if it's new. O_O;

 

[Hazaro]

To the people with the Dual/Quad argument, buy a E7200/E5200 if what mostly you are doing is gaming, then buy the Quad when you need it down the line at half the price what you would of spent 2 years ago.

You don't even need to reinstall Windows for a CPU change.

 

[godhandiscen]

I've never seen my processor activity go above 60% when I add the activity in all cores, so you may have a point.

 

[JudgeN]

To the people with the Dual/Quad argument, buy a E7200/E5200 if what mostly you are doing is gaming, then buy the Quad when you need it down the line at half the price what you would of spent 2 years ago.

You don't even need to reinstall Windows for a CPU change.

E5200 has a 800 FSB and 2MB cache that will effect your gaming performance alot. I do not recommend it for gaming unless you have to go that cheap. As far as the Quad thing goes, if you want a quad get a Q6600 the new batches have very low VID and can overclock to 3.8Gig on air easy. Hell I have my Q6600 at 3.8 on air with a noctua NH-U12P heatsink/fan, keeps this beast cool as shit. I could probably get 4 gig with it if i wanted too.

 

[Hazaro]

E5200 has a 800 FSB and 2MB cache that will effect your gaming performance alot. I do not recommend it for gaming unless you have to go that cheap. As far as the Quad thing goes, if you want a quad get a Q6600 the new batches have very low VID and can overclock to 3.8Gig on air easy. Hell I have my Q6600 at 3.8 on air with a noctua NH-U12P heatsink/fan, keeps this beast cool as shit. I could probably get 4 gig with it if i wanted too.

Uhh no?
It won't?

Also most Q6600 do not clock that fast.

 

[SRG01]

E5200 has a 800 FSB and 2MB cache that will effect your gaming performance alot. I do not recommend it for gaming unless you have to go that cheap. As far as the Quad thing goes, if you want a quad get a Q6600 the new batches have very low VID and can overclock to 3.8Gig on air easy. Hell I have my Q6600 at 3.8 on air with a noctua NH-U12P heatsink/fan, keeps this beast cool as shit. I could probably get 4 gig with it if i wanted too.

Oh please. I doubt anyone can notice a substantial difference between a higher processor and the E5200 clocked to 3GHz. Artificial benches, yes, but real life applications?

 

[Chiggs]

Uhh no?
It won't?

Also most Q6600 do not clock that fast.

Yeah, most only hit 3.6ghz.

 

[SapientWolf]

Instead of buying a $400 Quad Core now, that will be out dated in a year. He could buy a $160 E8400 cpu, that outperforms any quad core in or around it's price range on 99 percent of games currently. Then grab the same quad core he wanted to get for $400, in a year for $160.

On the latest Supreme Commander benchmark charts all the quad cores outperform all the dual core (with the exception being the 8600 beating the low end Phenoms). Supreme Commander is one of the only games that scales across all four cores. So if this trend continues in the future you'd be better off with the Q6600 than the E8400, which only costs $30 more.

For now, most other games are GPU instead of CPU limited so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to buy a dual core just for the small performance increase over quad (that you'll only notice in benchmarks). In the near term, you'd be better off upgrading your GPU and keeping the same processor.

 

[Hazaro]

On the latest Supreme Commander benchmark charts all the quad cores outperform all the dual core (with the exception being the 8600 beating the low end Phenoms). Supreme Commander is one of the only games that scales across all four cores. So if this trend continues in the future you'd be better off with the Q6600 than the E8400, which only costs $30 more.

For now, most other games are GPU instead of CPU limited so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to buy a dual core just for the small performance increase over quad (that you'll only notice in benchmarks). In the near term, you'd be better off upgrading your GPU and keeping the same processor.

Currently I have a E7200, later when needed I plan on upgrading to a quad (Q6600 most likely). If the new platform has any surprises I'll possibly be upgrading to that later, when the performance difference is better than buying a new GPU. Which I think will be a long time coming.

Either way it comes down to predicting the future. Like you said, if the trend continues.

 

[Chiggs]

Either way it comes down to predicting the future. Like you said, if the trend continues.

It will definitely shift that way until we hit the holy grail of computing, the "system on a chip."

 

[Hazaro]

It will definitely shift that way until we hit the holy grail of computing, the "system on a chip."

Looking back it's worded bad, but When the future happens doesn't sound any better.
That is the trend, but it's taking a while to pick up.

I'll upgrade when I need to like I said.

 

[Chiggs]

Hexus Radeon 4870 1GB Review (Powercolor)

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=15463&page=1

Seems to fall in line with the Anandtech review.

 

[chespace]

I'm definitely leaning towards building my own system now since newegg's shipping is so cheap and the overall cost is so much lower than NCIXUS. I might regret the decision, I dunno.

Here's the latest build, based on all the discussion from earlier today. It's a nice high end solution that has a quad and 4870X2, but keeps the price somewhat decent. Also, I upped the RAM to 8GB. :lol

CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W Power Supply
$129.99

SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q
$26.99

POWERCOLOR AX4870X2 2GBD5-H Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB 512-bit (256-bit x 2) GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
$539.99

ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
$119.99

Logitech EX 110 Black USB + PS/2 Standard Cordless Desktop Keyboard & Mouse Kit
$25.99

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$74.99

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ

G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Memory
Item #:N82E16820231122
$131.98

SCEPTRE X24WG-1080P Black 24" 2ms Widescreen LCD Monitor Built in Speakers
$259.99

Antec Twelve Hundred Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case
$199.99

ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler
$19.99

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550
$324.99

Grand Total: $1,854.88

 

[zoku88]

8GB :lol :lol

 

[TheHeretic]

Uhh no?
It won't?

Also most Q6600 do not clock that fast.

Gaming performance clocks out at 3.0-3.2 ghz. The idea that dual cores outperform quad cores is complete nonsense. My Q6600 is at 3.6ghz, show me a single benchmark that demonstrates an E8400 at 4.0ghz+ (or even stock) makes a shred of difference in games. The E8400 is the most overrated CPU in this thread, the G0 revision of the Q6600 came out before it and was the superior chip.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/248327-28-overclocked-q6600-e8400-compared-benchmarks-included

 

[chespace]

8GB :lol :lol

It's only 65 bucks for the 2nd pair. :lol

Anyway, I have a copy of Vista Ultimate sitting here unopened so I figured, why the hell not.

 

[TheHeretic]

It's only 65 bucks for the 2nd pair. :lol

Anyway, I have a copy of Vista Ultimate sitting here unopened so I figured, why the hell not.

Your computer is completely insane, in a good way. Everything is majorly improved since you moved to whatever distributor you are using now. 8gb RAM though, I mean, Crysis uses 1 GB :lol

If anything i'd take out the RAM and put in a second HDD. Maybe put it in raid for some extra ownage, otherwise you'll run out of 500gb faster than you think.

 

[Kosma]

Chespace, I really hope you will end up playing some games on that beast

Any ideas of what you will try first?

 

[chespace]

Chespace, I really hope you will end up playing some games on that beast

Any ideas of what you will try first?

Crysis
Crysis: Warhead
STALKER
STALKER Clear Sky
Fallout 3

In that order.

I'm gonna pull the trigger on this rig tomorrow first thing. Should be here by the end of the week. Newegg is so good... shipping is only like $19.78. How is that even possible?

 

[Hunter D]

Crysis
Crysis: Warhead
STALKER
STALKER Clear Sky
Fallout 3

In that order.

I'm gonna pull the trigger on this rig tomorrow first thing. Should be here by the end of the week. Newegg is so good... shipping is only like $19.78. How is that even possible?

The witcher is also good from what I played.