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Official 2011 MLB Thread v.2: The Mets are terrible.

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Rangers had a big win last night. I'm hoping Holland stays cool and doesnt fuck up the momentum we are building. Though I am a little worried about peaking too soon as a team.


Though, we are going into a hard week or so. (Tampa, Red Sox, more Angels I think) so things could get interesting.
 

Sanjuro

Member
Kemp is not getting shit unless the Dodgers make the postseason. Like it or not, it's as simple as that.

My bet is Fielder, Braun and Upton are still studs. Howard would be a terrible joke unless he channels some of his prior seasonal performance.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
yeah at this point i think i'd give the ROY to either Kimbrel or Esponosa. As good as freeman has been offensively this year, he has been just as bad defensively. Yes, he can scoop the ball with the best of them but that is only a small part of being a good defensive first baseman. You actually need to get to balls which Freeman does not. And although scoops are not part of UZR, the best and worst first baseman at scooping the ball is really not much different so it doesn't amount to much. He has very limited range. And the Kemp vs. Upton debate comes down to defense as well, and at this point i'd choose upton.
 
Windu said:
yeah at this point i think i'd give the ROY to either Kimbrel or Esponosa. As good as freeman has been offensively this year, he has been just as bad defensively. Yes, he can scoop the ball with the best of them but that is only a small part of being a good defensive first baseman. You actually need to get to balls which Freeman does not. He has very limited range.


I am amazed at how Freeman has turned his season around. When the Phillies played the Braves in Atlanta eary this year he looked so lost at the plate, he was swinging at everything. He looks like he is going to be really good now. I think Kimbrel is going to win RotY though.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
yankeehater said:
I am amazed at how Freeman has turned his season around. When the Phillies played the Braves in Atlanta eary this year he looked so lost at the plate, he was swinging at everything. He looks like he is going to be really good now. I think Kimbrel is going to win RotY though.
yeah he always started slow when he reached a new level in the minors so i expected him to do so in the majors, it was only a matter of time before he made the adjustments and started hitting.
 

Doytch

Member
This year will be even more ridiculously chronicled, as more than half of the [LL] World Series games are broadcast in 3D. “If a kid makes an error in right field and is out there crying at a Little League game, seeing his face is a big part of the story,” said Phil Orlins, ESPN 3D’s coordinating producer.

No, it’s not, Phil. If I wanted to spend my evenings with three-dimensional crying kids, I’d lay off the birth control pills.
Hah, too good. Story.
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Windu said:
yeah at this point i think i'd give the ROY to either Kimbrel or Esponosa. As good as freeman has been offensively this year, he has been just as bad defensively. Yes, he can scoop the ball with the best of them but that is only a small part of being a good defensive first baseman. You actually need to get to balls which Freeman does not. And although scoops are not part of UZR, the best and worst first baseman at scooping the ball is really not much different so it doesn't amount to much. He has very limited range. And the Kemp vs. Upton debate comes down to defense as well, and at this point i'd choose upton.

You forgot about Constanza. He'll keep it up all year and deserve to win the award.
 

eznark

Banned
SuperMalo said:
His war and fielding totals are amazing.

That's what blew me away. I never bothered to look up his numbers just because no one ever questions that he was far and away the best defensive third basemen ever but....holy hell.
 

verbum

Member
darkside31337 said:
You forgot about Constanza. He'll keep it up all year and deserve to win the award.
How could you not give it to a rookie hitting .400? I imagine he'll lose out on the minimum number of games required. Leprechauns get no breaks. But he will get the batting title next year, .375 minimum. And 60 stolen bases.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
eznark said:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=96&position=OF
verbum said:
How could you not give it to a rookie hitting .400? I imagine he'll lose out on the minimum number of games required. Leprechauns get no breaks. But he will get the batting title next year, .375 minimum. And 60 stolen bases.
if he keeps this up then sure, he will be deserving but the likely hood of him hitting .400 the rest of the season are very slim. He is already valued at 1.2 fWAR so far this season though which is impressive.
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
eznark said:

Always make me wonder how close http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=970&position=3B he would have gotten if he wasn't injured every year in his career. He's getting pretty close to missing 3 nearly full seasons off his career due to injuries at this point.

Not sure why nobody ever talks about him for the HOF. Feel like his entire career has been underrated for whatever reason especially when you compare him to somebody like Chipper Jones who is basically a lock.
 

eznark

Banned
darkside31337 said:
Always make me wonder how close http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=970&position=3B he would have gotten if he wasn't injured every year in his career. He's getting pretty close to missing 3 nearly full seasons off his career due to injuries at this point.

Not sure why nobody ever talks about him for the HOF. Feel like his entire career has been underrated for whatever reason especially when you compare him to somebody like Chipper Jones who is basically a lock.

?

He is a lock. I think people don't talk about him simply because he hasn't really talked hanging them up til this year.
 

eznark

Banned
Windu said:
Beyond the Boxscore did a series of articles about the hall of fame using their new stat called wWAR which basically accounts for players peaks as well as their career.

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/3/7/2022771/hall-of-wwar
Jim Rice: I've devoted a lot of "ink" to Jim Rice. So, this shouldn't be much of a surprise. Sorry dude, but I had to do it. Rice had the nice .298 average and .502 slugging, but he didn't walk a ton and he wound up with an OPS+ of just 128 (certainly not bad, but lower than you'd think given his reputation). He earned 279 batting runs as a hitter, but he gave 46 of those back just by grounding into double plays. That's 16.5% of his offensive value gone because of double plays. Between that, the relatively low walk totals and the shorter career, he falls short.

LEGIT!
 

verbum

Member
darkside31337 said:
Always make me wonder how close http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=970&position=3B he would have gotten if he wasn't injured every year in his career. He's getting pretty close to missing 3 nearly full seasons off his career due to injuries at this point.

Not sure why nobody ever talks about him for the HOF. Feel like his entire career has been underrated for whatever reason especially when you compare him to somebody like Chipper Jones who is basically a lock.

Why wasn't Graig Nettles elected? He was pretty good as well.
 
The bad news keeps pouring in for the defending World Series Champion Giants, who are trying to stay above water in the NL West and NL Wild Card races.

They placed relief pitcher Sergio Romo on the disabled list today right elbow inflammation. Dan Runzler was recalled from AAA to replace him.

Right fielder Carlos Beltran is also believed to be headed to the DL later today with his wrist problem. He hasn't played since August 7 against the Phillies, having to exit the game due to feeling a sharp pain in his hand after a swinging strikeout. A MRI showed no structural damage, but he continues to feel pain swinging from the left side. A cortisone shot had no positive effect. Since giving up top pitching prospect Zach Wheeler to the Mets for him, Beltran only played 11 games with his new team before going down with another injury. Beltran, 34, is in the final season of a 7-year, $119 million contract signed with the Mets after the 2004 season. The tenure of his contract has been smeared with multiple injuries, and this latest one will no doubt affect his free agent value this offseason. Even before the injury, the Giants were not expected to attempt re-signing him in the offseason.

Third baseman Pablo Sandoval is not in tonight's line-up after fouling a ball hard off his ankle on Monday. He had to come out of the game in obvious pain. X-Rays were negative, but he's been diagnosed with a bone bruise. There is a chance Sandoval could miss the rest of this crucial series against the Wild Card-leading Braves. For a club who is already MLB's dead last in runs scored, losing Sandoval for an extended period of time could put one foot of the Giants' 2011 season in the grave with the other foot slipping. Sandoval's injury may force the Giants to DL Beltran, in order to free up another bench spot if he cannot play for a few days.

Relief pitcher Brian Wilson is also not healthy. The Giants' eccentric closer has been suffering a lower back issue. He was in clear discomfort Monday, blowing a two-run lead. The Braves rallied to a 5-4 win on the heels of Rookie of the Year candidate Freddie Freeman's bases-loaded, walk-off single. The man affectionally referred to as "The Beard" has now allowed 11 earned runs in his last 17.2 innings pitched.

Monday's demoralizing loss for the Giants sunk them to 2.5 back of the idle Diamondbacks in the NL West and 5.0 back of the Braves in the NL Wild Card. The Braves are now 4-0 on the season against the team that bounced them from the playoffs last year. The Braves also increased their lead to 6.0 games over the Cardinals, who lost 6-2 to the Pirates. Despite their sizable Wild Card lead and owning the second-best record in the NL, the Braves still find themselves 8.5 back of the MLB-best Phillies.

Good lord. Who did the Giants piss off?
 

verbum

Member
Windu said:
they sold their soul to the baseball gods for that world championship.


Remember the Greek gods had to defeat the Giants and cast them underground. Give the Giants an inch and they take a pennant.
 

Dragon

Banned
Roidsbury continuing to hit homers. And Lester bounces back with a great start. And Francona knows when to pull him, amazing!
 

clemenx

Banned
Really, you guys think Rolen is a lock?

It's always seemed to me that him and Edmonds are going to be great snubs of this generation.
 

eznark

Banned
clemenx said:
Really, you guys think Rolen is a lock?

It's always seemed to me that him and Edmonds are going to be great snubs of this generation.

Edmonds is an edge case. Rolen is an absolute 100% lock. No question about it.
 
Injury bug is biting Philly too. Polanco could be out for the season with sports hernia surgery. Cole Hamels is missing his next start. MRI revealed rotator cuff inflammation.
 

verbum

Member
I did not realize we signed him after the Indians had him in their minor league system for a long time.
From Talking Chop

Player
rWAR
fWAR
Jose Constanza
1.1
1.2
Hunter Pence
0.6
0.6
Michael Bourn
0.3
0.2
Rafael Furcal
0.2
0.1
Derrek Lee
0.2
0.2
Kosuke Fukudome
0.4
0.1
Ryan Ludwick
-0.2
-0.3
Carlos Beltran
-0.3
-0.1
Orlando Cabrera
-0.3
-0.2
Felipe Lopez
-0.3
-0.3
Colby Rasmus
-0.3
0.0
Corey Patterson
-0.3
-0.1
Jonny Gomes
-0.2
0.3

For the uninitiated, WAR is "Wins Above Replacement," and it is defined as a single number that presents the number of wins the player added to the team above what a replacement player (AAA or quad-A) would add. Keeping in mind that Constanza was probably considered a quad-A player prior to his call-up, his performance may be throwing the whole WAR stat for a loop. Nonetheless, the fact still remains that according to either measure of WAR, Jose Constanza has (so far) been the most valuable batter acquired at or near the trade deadline.

How long will this performance continue? How many licks does it take to get to the center of his bat? These are yet unanswered questions, but it's time for everyone to come around on how important this kid is and how important he could be for the rest of the year. (I have finally come around on this point.) Yes, he's going to take away playing time from Jason Heyward. But over the course of the entire season Heyward has posted an equal (1.1 rWAR) or lower (0.9 fWAR) WAR to that of the totals Constanza has put up in just 16 games.

Perhaps, then, this truly is the "Summer of George!"

http://www.talkingchop.com/
 

Sanjuro

Member
No current Red Sox players at that HoF status right now. I began to weigh the Ortiz argument last night for the sake of it. Certainly his age and peak work against him dramatically.

His last four years have been a mixed bag, has been playing great ball of late. For the sake of argument, he plays another four-five seasons with similar numbers. Finishes around the 2300-2400 hit mark and 450-500 homers. Would the discussion be there with his postseason and beast year successes? Other part of this is you are back at the Edgar Martinez reasoning (who certainly should be there).

EDIT: Not so sure about Edmonds.
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
CajoleJuice said:
Yeah, because that's what the BBWAA goes by.
well we were just talking if he deserved it or not. Not whether the BBWAA would vote for him.

edit: ok maybe not.
 
clemenx said:
Yeah, I meant in terms of the BBWAAA. Of course us handsome GAF posters know that Rolen is awesome.


I will always hate Rolen for the way he acted when he was a Phillie, so I am biased against him getting in. He is one of the best defensive players ever at his position, but it seems like the BBWAAA tends to favor offense over defense.
 
yankeehater said:
I will always hate Rolen for the way he acted when he was a Phillie, so I am biased against him getting in. He is one of the best defensive players ever at his position, but it seems like the BBWAAA tends to favor offense over defense.
I was wondering the same thing. How much do voters value defense while they vote.
 
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