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Official 2011 MLB Thread v.2: The Mets are terrible.

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S

Sharp

Member
If any Phillies position player were to get MVP--which they won't--it should be Utley. Don't think the baseball media didn't notice that the Phillies' offensive surge coincided with his return.
Windu said:
well howard finished 10th in mvp voting last season...soo there are still some really dumb voters. I could see him winning it, sadly.
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I just don't think it's possible because anyone voting for Howard for MVP would be effectively saying "I think Ryan Howard was more of a reason for that Phillies team being so good than any of their top three starters." It looks dumb written out in full and I bet it sounds dumb in their heads too.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
DevelopmentArrested said:
This isn't 1940 anymore.
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well howard finished 10th in mvp voting last season...soo there are still some really dumb voters. I could see him winning it, sadly.
sharp said:
I just don't think it's possible because anyone voting for Howard for MVP would be effectively saying "I think Ryan Howard was more of a reason for that Phillies team being so good than any of their top three starters." It looks dumb written out in full and I bet it sounds dumb in their heads too.
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well there are people out there that think the mvp is only for position players and players on winning teams. So that narrows the field considerably. Now whether or not those people outnumber the other more informed voters, who knows.
 
H

h3ro

Member
yankeehater said:
Did you read the article he posted. Juan gone won 2 mvps just based on his rbi production. They are not going to give it to a pitcher, and howard is the only phillie position player with a chance. If they runaway with the nl I think he will get it in large part because none of the other playoff teams have guys putting up way better numbers.
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TBAG.


typical baseball analyst guy. close relative of the TFAG from the NFL. copyright Max Kellerman.
 
C

Corran Horn

May the Schwartz be with you
tumblr_lpe1e89f9E1qzaz00o1_500.png
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
Windu said:
well howard finished 10th in mvp voting last season...soo there are still some really dumb voters. I could see him winning it, sadly.
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He had a really bad year last year to. He was hurt the whole second half. I don't believe the voters care about advanced stats. Unless one guy is just having an insane year they will take the main hr and rbi guys for the top teams and throw them in a hat. A lot of times the mvp vote comes out and everyone is wtf? I think people are giving this years voters to much credit.
 
D

DevelopmentArrested

Banned
yankeehater said:
He had a really bad year last year to. He was hurt the whole second half. I don't believe the voters care about advanced stats. Unless one guy is just having an insane year they will take the main hr and rbi guys for the top teams and throw them in a hat. A lot of times the mvp vote comes out and everyone is wtf? I think people are giving this years voters to much credit.
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He's been worse this year.
 
C

ConradCervantes

Banned
Philly fans and their RBI obsession.

Years from now when Howard is out of shape and plagued by injuries, and fans are cursing Amaro's name because of that horrific contract, then everyone will see how trivial RBIs are to a player's success.
 
C

ConradCervantes

Banned
evil solrac v3.0 said:
Fielder or Braun will win it.
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Honestly, if it did come down to Fielder and Braun, I don't have a clue who'd be more deserving. Both have delivered hugely to this team's success this year. Braun is leading the NL in wOBA and wRC+, so there's large evidence of his ability to contribute. Fielder isn't too far behind in either category as well.

But as yankeehater pointed out, most sportswriters may not care about such statistics. And Prince has the edge in raw numbers. My ultimate guess is they'll split the votes and Upton will get it. Like windu said, D-Backs coming from behind and potentially snatching the West from the Giants makes for a good story, and Upton is clearly the catalyst for the D-Backs' successes as of late.
 
D

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
Windu said:
him getting 300 saves gives more credit to the save stat being worthless.
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Well yes. I still love Izzy though, considering where his career started and all the twists and bumps in the road leading full circle to him finishing it off with the Mets. It's a cool story for Mets fans in what will otherwise generally be a forgettable year.

300 saves doesn't mean anything other than the fact he's been in the big leagues for a damn long time. Let me have my symbolic victory while your team racks up actual victories.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
The Frankman said:
So 30+ saves a year + missing large periods of time on DL = eh he's worthless.

ok.
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are you arguing that someone is good based on his save total? really?
 
J

JABEE

Member
I'd like to go on the record and say Ryan Howard will not and should not win the MVP this year.

Edit: I actually think Victorino and the big three are probably better candidates for MVP.
 
V

verbum

Member
CygnusXS said:
Re: Heyward vs. Constanza

Fine, I give up. Whatever.
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I did notice Capitol Avenue is allowing comments on his latest post date 8/14. : )

Poor Jason, he is getting a big dose of the sophomore slump. And I am glad to see he is still playing the last two games. I think he will pour it on next year if he doesn't start doing it later this year.
I wonder if the Braves will shop around for a SS in the off season if Pastornesky gets called up 9/1 and proves to be Alex II as far as offense goes. SS seems to be their one lacking in infielder offense right now.
I wonder if Fredi will use that "Constanza batting 9th" trick again? I enjoyed seeing that, two speedsters back to back.
I didn't realize Wilson's back was bothering him so much, but now that I look back he was stretching it between pitches and his control was way off.
 
S

Sharp

Member
Nice, Purke apparently let the Nats do an extended MRI of his shoulder so he's not nearly as big of a risk as he seemed at first, which is probably why they were willing to spend so much on him.
 
E

eznark

Banned
yankeehater said:
Did you read the article he posted. Juan gone won 2 mvps just based on his rbi production. They are not going to give it to a pitcher, and howard is the only phillie position player with a chance. If they runaway with the nl I think he will get it in large part because none of the other playoff teams have guys putting up way better numbers.
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Based on this criteria, I love Prince's chances of an undeserved MVP.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
eznark said:
Based on this criteria, I love Prince's chances of an undeserved MVP.
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The only thing that hurts Prince is that, like someone already said, I think he will split voters with Braun. Both guys are having really good years. I wasnt even thinking of the D-Backs though last night. If they make the playoffs, especially if they beat out the defending champs to win the division, then Upton will win it in a landslide.
 
D

Dmncnby2k9

Banned
yankeehater said:
The only thing that hurts Prince is that, like someone already said, I think he will split voters with Braun. Both guys are having really good years. I wasnt even thinking of the D-Backs though last night. If they make the playoffs, especially if they beat out the defending champs to win the division, then Upton will win it in a landslide.
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I see either Upton, Braun, or Fielder winning it. Shit I remember when the D-Backs made Upton available and the Red Sox tried to get him. Look at him now.
 
E

eznark

Banned
yankeehater said:
The only thing that hurts Prince is that, like someone already said, I think he will split voters with Braun. Both guys are having really good years. I wasnt even thinking of the D-Backs though last night. If they make the playoffs, especially if they beat out the defending champs to win the division, then Upton will win it in a landslide.
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True, however I was speaking solely to Prince v. Howard. Only Phillies fans would vote for Howard over Fielder. Prince is better in every conceivable fashion and plays on a worse team, making his impact more mValuablep.

But since I am not a crazy homer asshole, I still hope Kemp/Upton wins it.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
eznark said:
True, however I was speaking solely to Prince v. Howard. Only Phillies fans would vote for Howard over Fielder. Prince is better in every conceivable fashion and plays on a worse team, making his impact more mValuablep.

But since I am not a crazy homer asshole, I still hope Kemp/Upton wins it.
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I never once said Howard should win it, or deserves to win it. Fielder will split votes with Bruan, whereas the Phils do not have another position player that would take votes from Howard. Utley missed to much of the year, even though the team has played much better since he has come back, and Shane is more important then Howard, but he doesnt have traditional MVP numbers. I was just saying that if things play out such that the Phils win the NL by a big amount and Howard is at or near the top in both HR's and RBI's I could see him winning it.
 
V

verbum

Member
Hard choice

ATLANTA -- The 2011 National League Rookie of the Year should be one of the Atlanta Braves. The only question is: Which one?

It is a tribute to the Braves' organization strength that it has produced two rookies who are good enough to create a major impact in the Major Leagues at the very start of their careers, in the same season. Those two are first baseman Freddie Freeman, 21, and closer Craig Kimbrel, 23.

There are other viable candidates for NL Rookie of the Year and one or more of them could make a big push between now and October. But at the moment, Freeman and Kimbrel set the pace.
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Freeman leads NL rookies in batting average, on-base percentage and slugging percentage (.296/.361/.470). He is second in home runs, first in runs batted in. His defensive work at first base has been well above average.
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With 36 saves in 41 save opportunities, Kimbrel leads not only the NL but the Majors in saves. Wilson is second in the NL at 35. Kimbrel has already set the Braves' franchise record for saves by a rookie. He is currently tied for third in saves by a rookie with Todd Worrell, who had 36 for St. Louis in 1986. In second is Kazuhiro Sasaki, who had 37 saves for Seattle in 2000. Sasaki was 32 years old and already a veteran of Japanese baseball when he had that "rookie" performance. At the top of the list, and well within range, is Neftali Feliz, who had 40 saves in a brilliant 2010 campaign for the pennant-winning Texas Rangers.
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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110815&content_id=23244198&vkey=news_atl&c_id=atl&partnerId=rss_atl
 
D

Doytch

Member
Espinosa's been hot trash lately, going with Kimbrel. Though if Espinosa turns it around, I'll be back in his camp.

Freeman isn't even in the conversation.
 
D

Dmncnby2k9

Banned
The Frankman said:
Fuck that noise. If Dillon "LegendKiller" Gee got some frickin' run support he'd have 14 wins already. Don't count him out yet.
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I wish Frank. Hoping he gets back on track and gets some more support from the offense.
 
M

Maxim726X

Member
The Frankman said:
Fuck that noise. If Dillon "LegendKiller" Gee got some frickin' run support he'd have 14 wins already. Don't count him out yet.
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If RBI is a useless stat (lol), then wins even more so.

There was a point where he was rocking a sub 3 ERA... Don't like where he's headed. Hopefully it's just fatigue, but his changeup can't find the plate anymore.
 
T

The Frankman

Banned
Maxim726X said:
If RBI is a useless stat (lol), then wins even more so.

There was a point where he was rocking a sub 3 ERA... Don't like where he's headed. Hopefully it's just fatigue, but his changeup can't find the plate anymore.
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The Atlanta Braves game was 8 days off for him, in Arizona he had one bad inning (that was enough). With one plus month to go he has 7-8 starts left, remember it's not the "Most Valuable Rookie on a Contending Team" Award.

He was really been slumping and the ERA/WHIP is troubling, but he can right the ship.
 
C

CajoleJuice

Member
With regards to the MVP discussion, Mike Francesa said yesterday that "Ryan Howard is probably the frontrunner right now. He has, what, 95 RBI? Maybe Fielder or Braun but they'll cancel each other out. Probably Howard."

I think people are giving the voters too much credit (and giving yankeehater too much shit). But then I think about how they've come around on the Cy Young. I guess we'll see. I'd probably give it to Upton right now.

Edit: Actually, I hadn't looked at Kemp's numbers recently; it looks like he's still tearing it up. I'd give it to him.
 
V

verbum

Member
Braves toying with idea of six-man rotation | Atlanta Braves
"We’ve kicked that around," said Gonzalez, who could keep Mike Minor in the rotation when Tommy Hanson returns. "We haven’t put pencil to paper on it, but at this point of the year, everybody may need an extra day."
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Lessen the wear and tear or worry about too much rest between starts/

I'm kinda for the extra starter, in case anyone gets hurt then you still have a good 5 man rotation without having to knock the rust off someone who's been sitting.
 
Y

yankeehater

Member
CajoleJuice said:
With regards to the MVP discussion, Mike Francesa said yesterday that "Ryan Howard is probably the frontrunner right now. He has, what, 95 RBI? Maybe Fielder or Braun but they'll cancel each other out. Probably Howard."

I think people are giving the voters too much credit (and giving yankeehater too much shit). But then I think about how they've come around on the Cy Young. I guess we'll see. I'd probably give it to Upton right now.

Edit: Actually, I hadn't looked at Kemp's numbers recently; it looks like he's still tearing it up. I'd give it to him.
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If they just go by numbers Kemp definitely deserves it, he is having a great year. Some years they do vote like it is the most outstanding player award, but then other years it is best player on a contending team. I think that is why for me MVP is the most interesting award, since it can go a few different ways.
 
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