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Official 2011 MLB Thread v.2: The Mets are terrible.

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DevelopmentArrested

Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
How isn't he? I thought you were one of the smart ones.
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You mean besides the fact that he's trailing Bautista by 2.1 WAR and 185 points in OPS? Oh right, he makes his team better I forgot. Hard to be a runner when there isn't even a race.
 
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eznark

Banned
Protip: When firing 7mm magnum rounds try not to let the scope hit you in the face. My father-in-law just about scalped himself an hour ago.

Fuck ya, Brewers 1st place!
 
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Sanjuro

Member
DevelopmentArrested said:
You mean besides the fact that he's trailing Bautista by 2.1 WAR and 185 points in OPS? Oh right, he makes his team better I forgot. Hard to be a runner when there isn't even a race.
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I'm not arguing Bautista's merits. His team is currently trailing by eleven games...
 
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Ninja Scooter

Member
DevelopmentArrested said:
You mean besides the fact that he's trailing Bautista by 2.1 WAR and 185 points in OPS? Oh right, he makes his team better I forgot. Hard to be a runner when there isn't even a race.
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Bautista's on a 4th place team. They could be in 4th place without him. MVPs on terrible teams typically only happen if nobody else on the winning teams is having a remarkable season....only Adrian Gonzalez is having an amazing statistical season for a 1st place team. Shit is a wrap, son.
 
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Dragon

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
Bautista's on a 4th place team. They could be in 4th place without him. MVPs on terrible teams typically only happen if nobody else on the winning teams is having a remarkable season....only Adrian Gonzalez is having an amazing statistical season for a 1st place team. Shit is a wrap, son.
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Bautista should win, but the voters are morons so whatever.
 
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DevelopmentArrested

Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
I'm not arguing Bautista's merits. His team is currently trailing by eleven games...
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Yes and Felix Hernandez won the Cy Young with 13 wins. If you get hung on a the wording of an award over who is actually the best player, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.
 
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Sanjuro

Member
TheBranca18 said:
Bautista should win, but the voters are morons so whatever.
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No. He really shouldn't. How is a player most valuable to his team when his team fails to do anything? If Adrian was putting up these numbers on the previous Sox team I would be saying the same thing. If the Red Sox fail to make the playoffs this season, I will say the same thing again.


DevelopmentArrested said:
Yes and Felix Hernandez won the Cy Young with 13 wins. If you get hung on a the wording of an award over who is actually the best player, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.
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CY Young is for the best pitcher in baseball. Correct. MVP is not that.
 
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Doytch

Member
pointless convo is pointless.

some people think the mvp award should go to the best player that's on a playoff (or close) team. some say it should just go to the best player. people from one camp won't convince people in the other.
 
D

Dragon

Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
No. He really shouldn't. How is a player most valuable to his team when his team fails to do anything? If Adrian was putting up these numbers on the previous Sox team I would be saying the same thing. If the Red Sox fail to make the playoffs this season, I will say the same thing again.
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It's an individual award. It doesn't have much to do with the team. It's not Bautista's fault that the Blue Jays are mediocre. We just have different ideas of what MVP means. No big.
 
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Sanjuro

Member
TheBranca18 said:
It's an individual award. It doesn't have much to do with the team. It's not Bautista's fault that the Blue Jays are mediocre. We just have different ideas of what MVP means. No big.
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That's why they have various statistical awards for individual accomplishments in statistics.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
No. He really shouldn't. How is a player most valuable to his team when his team fails to do anything? If Adrian was putting up these numbers on the previous Sox team I would be saying the same thing. If the Red Sox fail to make the playoffs this season, I will say the same thing again.
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Ok, but looking at the standing, the Red Sox are a playoff team without Gonzalez, so how valuable is he really? I mean, he's basically just a cherry on top. The real MVP is Ian Kinsler.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
eznark said:
Ok, but looking at the standing, the Red Sox are a playoff team without Gonzalez, so how valuable is he really? I mean, he's basically just a cherry on top. The real MVP is Ian Kinsler.
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Eh, I'm not so sure about that at the moment. I get your point though.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Eh, I'm not so sure about that at the moment. I get your point though.
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I just dislike that people so strongly believe the "guy is on a bad team he isn't and MVP" argument but then give it to a guy who helps the team win by 6 instead of 4. The Red Sox would still be winning and would still certainly be a wild card/divisional contender without Gonzalez. Where would the Rangers be without Kinsler or the Indians be without Cabrera?

If you are going to argue that only playoff teams can have MVPs, then I think you have to start looking only at teams that would not be in the playoffs without those players, since your argument lies in their "value" to a winner.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
eznark said:
I just dislike that people so strongly believe the "guy is on a bad team he isn't and MVP" argument but then give it to a guy who helps the team win by 6 instead of 4. The Red Sox would still be winning and would still certainly be a wild card/divisional contender without Gonzalez. Where would the Rangers be without Kinsler or the Indians be without Cabrera?

If you are going to argue that only playoff teams can have MVPs, then I think you have to start looking only at teams that would not be in the playoffs without those players, since your argument lies in their "value" to a winner.
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You aren't valuable losing either. I guess it is a moot argument, that is just my feeling on it. I understand the arguments of both sides however. I'm not trying to be an Adrian homer either. The Hank Aaron award should be the CY Young equivalent but doesn't seem to be that way.

Rockies finish last place and Jimenez gets close to thirty wins with a spectacular ERA. Should he get the MVP?
 
E

eznark

Banned
TheBranca18 said:
A-Roid
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8 years ago? High time.

You aren't valuable losing either. I guess it is a moot argument, that is just my feeling on it. I understand the arguments of both sides however. I'm not trying to be an Adrian homer either. The Hank Aaron award should be the CY Young equivalent but doesn't seem to be that way.
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No, by the "most valuable" definition the award should go to the most valuable player on a team that squeaks into the playoffs.
 
D

DevelopmentArrested

Banned
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
You aren't valuable losing either. I guess it is a moot argument, that is just my feeling on it. I understand the arguments of both sides however. I'm not trying to be an Adrian homer either. If there was Hank Aaron award should be the CY Young equivalent but doesn't seem to be that way.

Rockies finish last place and Jimenez gets close to thirty wins with a spectacular ERA. Should he get the MVP?
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of course. it's not his or bau's fault they are on bad teams.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Doytch said:
mccutchen for mvp.

by either definition.
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123mtfr.gif
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
Doytch said:
mccutchen for mvp.

by either definition.
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Winner Winner Predator Dinner.

That's just the way I have always seen it. Historically that's how it goes as well. I bring up the pitchers argument for a reason, there should be more pitchers winning the award. Maybe then they can get their seasonal awards straight.
 
E

Enron

Banned
In my mind, Jose Bautista is the MVP. Sure the Jays can be in 4th without him, but it's not like Bautista can magically make the pitchers better. Gonzalez is having a beastly season, but Bautista's numbers are otherworldly.
 
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eznark

Banned
Doytch said:
also, mccutchen is the dread pirate, which is by far the best nickname in baseball.
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The Pirates have played the Brewers what, 45 times in his three seasons? I have never, ever, once heard that nickname. Of course, tough to throw around nicknames when you're losing by 8 every night but still.
 
D

Doytch

Member
lol garbage stadium
eznark said:
The Pirates have played the Brewers what, 45 times in his three seasons? I have never, ever, once heard that nickname. Of course, tough to throw around nicknames when you're losing by 8 every night but still.
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the only place ive ever seen it used is on razzball actually. i just pretend the rest of the world is in on this.
 
E

eznark

Banned
Doytch said:
lol garbage stadium

the only place ive ever seen it used is on razzball actually. i just pretend the rest of the world is in on this.
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heh, I do the same with Joe Table/Jose Mesa. I only ever heard it on XM Radio but it's too good to not pretend the rest of the world used it too.
 
S

Sharp

Member
Speaking of piece of shit stadiums, watching MLBN the other day I noticed that every ball that lands in the outifled in Angel Stadium is still kicking up clouds of dust weeks after the U2 concert that was being used as an excuse. Do the groundskeepers just hate the team or something?
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Sharp said:
Speaking of piece of shit stadiums, watching MLBN the other day I noticed that every ball that lands in the outifled in Angel Stadium is still kicking up clouds of dust weeks after the U2 concert that was being used as an excuse. Do the groundskeepers just hate the team or something?
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The grounds crew is waiting for the Santa Ana winds to show up so they can unleash all that dust to the rest of SoCal.
 
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Sanjuro

Member
Why would the field be wet there...at all? I'm just going to assume they had the circus before the game today and there is elephant semen all over their stained carpet grass.
 
D

Dragon

Banned
Tropicana and the Rays are a joke franchise. No matter how successful they actually are, that stadium is a fucking joke. Seriously.
 
D

DevelopmentArrested

Banned
TheBranca18 said:
Tropicana and the Rays are a joke franchise. No matter how successful they actually are, that stadium is a fucking joke. Seriously.
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how is the franchise a joke? #1 farm system in the game, pretty damn good MLB team. blame the geriatrics not going to the games.

-edit longo is playing hurt
 
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Sanjuro

Member
DevelopmentArrested said:
how is the franchise a joke? #1 farm system in the game, pretty damn good MLB team. blame the geriatrics not going to the games.

-edit longo is playing hurt
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The team is fine. Hipster Manager, Florida Fans, Worst Stadium.

EDIT: In reverse order.
 
D

Dragon

Banned
DevelopmentArrested said:
how is the franchise a joke? #1 farm system in the game, pretty damn good MLB team. blame the geriatrics not going to the games.

-edit longo is playing hurt
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Because of their stadium dude. The fact they get outdrawn constantly by away teams at their home park amongst other reasons.
 
S

Sanjuro

Member
TheBranca18 said:
Because of their stadium dude. The fact they get outdrawn constantly by away teams at their home park amongst other reasons.
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The could have the best ballpark in all the land and have this still happen.
 
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