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[Zerachiel]

Those are the people that bought the game on the PS2 two years ago. Television ads would have been a smarter move.

There haven't been any numbers reported. Which is what makes this whole argument a complete waste of time.

I don't buy it. Okami was released after most of the hardcore had already moved onto the next-gen, and was going up against Twilight Princess to boot. Certainly we'd have seen much better sales if had been released a year earlier, or if all the hardcore who would be interested in the playing the greatest game of all time had bought it.

Alas that they had to release it in April, smack in the middle between Smash and Mario Kart. RE4 wii proved last year that you can capture the hardcore's attention during a drought. If only they had waited until July... or even next year, since this year seems to be pretty much droughtless.

 

[dammitmattt]

The best games are on 360 and PS3 nomatter how good of a console Wii is. Wii's best games are only from Nintendo and those are just trickling in. 3rd party games on PS3 and 360 are much better than Wii. Developers have a controller and they dont know how to innovate on it.
The best gameplay and best graphics overall are on 360 and PS3. People who are intrigued by the controller ONLY and nothing else are buying Wii in hordes moreso than any console in history. Wii sales are driven mostly by Casual gamers

I was mostly with you....

...This is the end of pure gaming as we know it, we cannot deny it. This is the start when Console games become like flash based PC games for casual gamers. I hope someone realises it

....until you went there.

A lot of Wii fans for some reason don't want to acknowledge (or they downplay) the fact that most of the "good" console games are on the next-gen consoles, most of the 3rd party attention and talent is going towards the next-gen consoles, and just as much innovation is happening on the next-gen consoles. And it is a fact that most developers (even Nintendo sometimes) just don't know what to do with the Wii controller, though they are getting better.

Also, you are right that the Wii is skewing more casual and the controller is a big draw. It's drawing in droves of people who would've never considered buying a console, especially at $250. For many people, it's become the equivalent of a board game - something you pull out once or twice a month to entertain friends and family.

However, you are dead wrong in your stance that it is a bad thing. All kinds of games from the Flash and Wii games that you so despise to the hardest of hardcore games are all part of the same industry, and it's only a good thing for all of us that the industry is expanding. It results in more types of experiences, not less, and that's only a good thing for us all. The rise of the blockbuster movie didn't result in the destruction of the indie movie. It made it possible for even more indie movies to be made. Similarly, the expansion of the industry has allowed not only for more AAA games, but also for more casual and indie games.

We have more gaming choices than ever before and you're acting like that is a bad thing?!? You seriously don't get it.

 

[norinrad21]

The only reason Nintendo even came up with the Wii was because they were facing instinction from the console market. They got absolutely dominated by Sony and their PS2, and newcomer Microsoft outsold Nintendo and their Gamecube.

Unlike those two companies, Nintendo has a luxury, an army of fans to call upon when needed, i can't say the same about the other two companies, even on during that strange year (1997/FF7) They were still making shitloads of money.

you have the mario generation coupled with the other great franchises and don't like me even get started on the pokemon and the new wii sports army who are all going to be supporting the company for another 20 years or so.

Nintendo facing extinction what an odd thing to say. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[unomas]

As long as the 360 continues to sell boatloads of software I don't really see what the problem is. The Wii is selling for different reasons than the HD consoles, it's selling to many people that will only ever play Wii sports and Wii play on it. That's fine, because HD gamers are still getting the games they want to play from 3rd parties and Wii owners are getting???

 

[civilstrife]

I simply cannot believe that Wii sold more than every piece of non-nintendo hardware combined. And still, there are shortages. A year and a half after launch and there are shortages, with THESE numbers.

WiiFit is going to rock this world to its very core.

 

[jgwhiteus]

LOL @ all the people who expected some kind of extreme boost in PS3 ans X360 hardware sales. One single game is not going to push some insane number of consoles.

Recent examples:
Wii Sports for Wii
Monster Hunter Portable 2G for PSP (in Japan) - though admittedly this hasn't changed the PSP's overall software situation, it seems to have improved hardware numbers considerably...though you could also attribute the HW bump to the intro of PSP Slim.

Maybe some others this gen (WiiFit seems like a candidate); there have certainly been some in the past (SMB made the NES). Thing is, it is possible for one game to move lots of consoles - maybe not all in the first month, but over time - it's just that GTAIV doesn't seem to be that type of game at this point.

And I agree with an earlier poster's comment, maybe GTAIV's become an "institutional" franchise that will always get big sales, but won't attract new buyers...it's a known quantity with an established fanbase. Perhaps sequels that get hyped to existing fans are less likely to sell systems than new IPs that catch the interest of a new audience.

 

[Grecco]

For many people, it's become the equivalent of a board game - something you pull out once or twice a month to entertain friends and family.
.

I really really wish i knew where people get the evidence for statments like this.


Games like Zelda, Mario, Smash, Mario Kart, Resident Evil. Are Selling on the damn console. And you know what. These arent "hyuck hyuck board game types."

People are Gaming on the console. They are downloading from the Nintendo store. They are using it every day.

 

[DataBot]

I really really wish i knew where people get the evidence for statments like this.


Games like Zelda, Mario, Smash, Mario Kart, Resident Evil. Are Selling on the damn console. And you know what. These arent "hyuck hyuck board game types."

People are Gaming on the console. They are downloading from the Nintendo store. They are using it every day.

Agreed.
Damn MKwii pure fun playing online with pals every evening...

 

[Kandrick]

Unlike those two companies, Nintendo has a luxury, an army of fans to call upon when needed, i can't say the same about the other two companies, even on during that strange year (1997/FF7) They were still making shitloads of money.

you have the mario generation coupled with the other great franchises and don't like me even get started on the pokemon and the new wii sports army who are all going to be supporting the company for another 20 years or so.

Nintendo facing extinction what an odd thing to say. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Oh god GAF.....

Because there arent rabid sony and ms fanboys that would buy anything on that console ?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Kintaro]

If I'm Sony, I pretty much switch gears and look to make this generation are profitable as I can in preparation for the next generation.

I work on new, slimmer model of PS3 to launch with a price cut. I also try to partner up with some HDD maker to produce official PS3 HDDs that people can buy to upgrade their own PS3s. I work on straighting out and getting PSN/Home down throughout the cycle so the next console will launch with an amazingly smooth online experience (meaning back catalog games (PS1, PSP, PS2, PSN cards, video and music sections, etc). I work on continuously improving tools for 1st and 3rd party devs to help ease the development for the PS3 and PS4 (with improved tools, I can't help but think that this would help bring down dev costs attached to games for the system).

I streamline the worldwide operations of the gaming section. No more segmented bullshit for Europe, Japan and the US. Make it as easy as possible for devs to submit their games for worldwide release for both retail and PSN games. I also continue to cultivate new ideas/games and evolve franchises (support fresh ideas in both casual and hardcore games, PSN, etc), especially in Japan. I then ride out the PS3 for as long as possible in the hopes of trying to duplicate Nintendo's success with the Gamecube (continuing to be profitable even in a "losing" position).

Alot of this is probably talking out of my ass or saying shit Sony is already trying to do, but basically I'm trying to say that they should try to make the best out of the situation while improving aspects of their gaming division that really needs help. Beating the Wii is definitely out of the picture now but that doesn't mean they can't still be successful while moving forward. The same goes for MS as well. Neither company should be looking at trying to kill each other because right now that's the worst possible thing that could happen to the other.

 

[NolbertoS]

I can't believe I spent the last 2 hour's of life reading the daily NPD thread, which should stand for "Nintendo-Pokemon-Domination" I'm glad that Nintendo is selling like hotcakes, only to slow down next-gen consoles being introduced every 5 years. I doubt, MS or Sony will release there console successors anytime soon, as this gen, the gamer market clearly states that no matter how new, techie a console is, if the price isn't $250 or lower, than no sale. I think MS and Sony should refocus there efforts on building there console line-up or maybe join forces. I'm betting in 5 year's time, videogaming will go back to the 2-way race, only cuz Sony and MS can't keep losing market share each year, and one of them will bow out or join forces. Nintendo on the other hand has blind-sided everybody with the Wii, hell I didn't believe the Wii could sell, but it did. Here's hoping Dreamcast 2 comes out with Sega, MS, and Sony joining forces

 

[MisterHero]

Oh god GAF.....

Because there arent rabid sony and ms fanboys that would buy anything on that console ?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Not in our vast number or level of passion. :lol

Wiisa have a grand army. That's why you no liking us miisa thinks.

:lol

 

[Pachael]

I simply cannot believe that Wii sold more than every piece of non-nintendo hardware combined. And still, there are shortages. A year and a half after launch and there are shortages, with THESE numbers.

WiiFit is going to rock this world to its very core.

I think the lack of 'The Official Wii Fit thread of Fitness Boards and Getting Some Exercise Like Miyamoto Told Us to' says everything. Somebody make a Wii Fit official US thread!

 

[Count Dookkake]

Oh god GAF.....

Because there arent rabid sony and ms fanboys ?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Wiisa have a grand army. That's why you no liking us miisa thinks.

 

[Kandrick]

Wiisa have a grand army. That's why you no liking us miisa thinks.

:lol

 

[Hellsing321]

Wiisa have a grand army. That's why you no liking us miisa thinks.

:lol :lol Beautiful.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Oh god GAF.....

Because there arent rabid sony and ms fanboys that would buy anything on that console ?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Nintendo are slightly different. There's an image and consistency to their stuff. Which works against them in so, so many ways, but also ensures certain people are hooked. I don't play much Wii at the minute, but I would never, ever consider selling it. I need it there for any big game they put out. Next gen, I'll buy their console day one. Repeat.

Whoever is playing a lot of 360 titles now is probably doing so because of the software and hardware capabilities. Not because they like Microsoft, as such. Sony are kinda in the middle, in that they have a "stable" of sorts.

 

[Ramenman]

ugugug what.

Nobody reaches 200k except for Nintendo that's still skyrocketing ?


Wow.

 

[Link]

As long as the 360 continues to sell boatloads of software I don't really see what the problem is. The Wii is selling for different reasons than the HD consoles, it's selling to many people that will only ever play Wii sports and Wii play on it. That's fine, because HD gamers are still getting the games they want to play from 3rd parties and Wii owners are getting???

Listen to this man!

Now I'm off to play Wii Sports.

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

Metal Gear 4 is a different animal. It may be the most important exclusive game to come out this year besides Resistance 2. I don't think it's going to move a ton of PS3 units, but there will at least be some sort of bump. It won't matter because Wii Fit will be out by then, however. I think people are delusional if they don't think that Metal Gear 4 will at least contribute to a small bump. I also think it easily sells 750 K its first month.

 

[fernoca]

I think the lack of 'The Official Wii Fit thread of Fitness Boards and Getting Some Exercise Like Miyamoto Told Us to' says everything. Somebody make a Wii Fit official US thread!

Keep in mind that:
-An official thread will most likely appear Monday, since t he game ships Wednesday on the US.
-WiiFit preorders has been sold out in many stores (at least for teh first shipment); some just stopped taking preorders and others are taking for 2nd and 3rd shipments I preordered and piaid in full last month..and I'm on the 2nd shipment list.. )

 

[Fëanor]

Name 5 good games for the Wii that have any depth to them at all that have been released within the past 5 months. Thanks.

SSBB
PES WII
Boom Blox
No More Heroes
Mario Kart Wii
Okami

What do I win?

 

[Kandrick]

Metal Gear 4 is a different animal. It may be the most important exclusive game to come out this year besides Resistance 2. I don't think it's going to move a ton of PS3 units, but there will at least be some sort of bump. It won't matter because Wii Fit will be out by then, however. I think people are delusional if they don't think that Metal Gear 4 will at least contribute to a small bump. I also think it easily sells 750 K its first month.

MGS4 is the "first" game i really want on PS3 that is exclusive. I would buy a PS3 right now, but call me cheap or whatever, but im waiting on a price drop, because it still cost too much, at least here in Europe.

So i play 360 and wii while i wait for it to happen

 

[JDSN]

This has been the best NPD thread since the holidays. And to think next month's will be better. :lol

 

[Scottlarock]

Oh god GAF.....

Because there arent rabid sony and ms fanboys that would buy anything on that console ?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

need more :lol , because the more you put in a thread the funnier it is :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

edit: :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[fernoca]

As long as the 360 continues to sell boatloads of software I don't really see what the problem is. The Wii is selling for different reasons than the HD consoles, it's selling to many people that will only ever play Wii sports and Wii play on it. That's fine, because HD gamers are still getting the games they want to play from 3rd parties and Wii owners are getting???

Nothing...
I just turn it on every day and stare at the screen..

 

[Hunter D]

So the "wii is a fad" line of thinking is finally buried. Nintendomination folks.

 

[Link]

This has been the best NPD thread since the holidays. And to think next month's will be better. :lol

Oh man, the combination of "the Wii is destroying gaming" plus "Wii Fit is destroying gaming" is going to make this place implode.


EDIT -

Nothing...
I just turn it on every day and stare at the screen..

Wait, you mean that's not "Staring At a Blank Screen Training" that comes built into the console?!

 

[Hellsing321]

So the "wii is a fad" line of thinking is finally buried. Nintendomination folks.

Embrace it. Love it.

 

[Kandrick]

need more :lol , because the more you put in a thread the funnier it is :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

edit: :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Look at the post i replied to before talking shit :lol :lol :lol

 

[Davidion]

MGS4 is the "first" game i really want on PS3 that is exclusive. I would buy a PS3 right now, but call me cheap or whatever, but im waiting on a price drop, because it still cost too much, at least here in Europe.

So i play 360 and wii while i wait for it to happen

MGS 4 and Resistance 2 will pull numbers at least slightly below GTA4, methinks. At this point in time, the PS3 certainly has enough of an US fan base to produce decent numbers for sequels of successful (nominally in the case of resistance) exclusive franchises. GTA's split fanbase obviously didn't do either console remotely as much good as it could have.

Titles like Killzone 2 and LBP are the wildcards here.

 

[Timedog]

Metal Gear 4 is a different animal. It may be the most important exclusive game to come out this year besides Resistance 2. I don't think it's going to move a ton of PS3 units, but there will at least be some sort of bump. It won't matter because Wii Fit will be out by then, however. I think people are delusional if they don't think that Metal Gear 4 will at least contribute to a small bump. I also think it easily sells 750 K its first month.

:lol

 

[Scottlarock]

Look at the post i replied to before talking shit :lol :lol :lol

so true. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[fernoca]

Oh man, the combination of "the Wii is destroying gaming" plus "Wii Fit is destroying gaming" is going to make this place implode.

That and the recent "Wii has no games"...<--That's new right? Never mentioned before??

 

[Scottlarock]

:lol

:lol :lol

 

[dammitmattt]

I really really wish i knew where people get the evidence for statments like this.

Games like Zelda, Mario, Smash, Mario Kart, Resident Evil. Are Selling on the damn console. And you know what. These arent "hyuck hyuck board game types."

People are Gaming on the console. They are downloading from the Nintendo store. They are using it every day.

Because I know about a dozen people who fit this description? Because most people seem to know some Wii owners who fit this description? I'm not saying this is the average Wii owner, but there are plenty of them out there.

Of course the Nintendo franchises are selling. They always have and they probably always will. However, those franchises are not what's selling the Wii to the "casual market." Wii Sports is selling the Wii to the casual market. And it's NOT a bad thing. It's expanding the market. Don't treat it like I'm saying it's a bad thing. I even go to great lengths in my post to explain why it's a good thing.

 

[DataBot]

Metal Gear 4 is a different animal. It may be the most important exclusive game to come out this year besides Resistance 2. I don't think it's going to move a ton of PS3 units, but there will at least be some sort of bump. It won't matter because Wii Fit will be out by then, however. I think people are delusional if they don't think that Metal Gear 4 will at least contribute to a small bump. I also think it easily sells 750 K its first month.

Could happen but only a small hardware bump
software the sales could be 1 mill.
The best game for the ps3 all other games are for me not note worthy.
If you have a ps3 its because of fanboy or mgs, ff or bluray thats my point of view.
MGS and FF would be the only reason i would buy a ps3 but..
it never will happen only for those 2 games....

 

[MisterHero]

So the "wii is a fad" line of thinking is finally buried. Nintendomination folks.

But it could collapse next month and sell 0 units!

Then Nintendo will end this gen with only 25 million Wiis sold!

Shame on you Nintendo!

 

[Warm Machine]

Man, what drugs are people on here? Yeah the Wii is selling crazy style creating a difficult comparison against the PS3 and 360. Still games like Halo 3, GTA IV, COD4 sell like crazy on the those machines yet the doomsday cult is in full swing.

Even if this turns into a 75% Nintendo dominated generation in terms of consoles sold, publishers are likely to continue the majority of their investment in the PS3 and 360 where it seems like their efforts are turning high profits. They have been from near day one of the gen to now so where is all this ridiculous hyperbole coming from?

This massive Wii sell through still isn't doing much to change the Nintendo perception as 3 of the 4 top Wii games are Nintendo published and the 4th is a franchise that has sold crazy on the PS3 and 360. Same goes for the DS where both of the top ten are Nintendo titles.

I personally feel that publishers think there is a level playing field on the other consoles just as long as they side step the shadows and fallout of Halo and GTA releases. In contrast, getting into the Nintendo shadow is all encompassing and you require more important timing and product to make a significant dent.

End of the day the industry is crazy healthy. There is a gamer out there who is able to be bred for near any concept a developer can offer up. This is a more exciting time then has ever been had in gaming.

 

[Accident]

old?

'Grand Theft Auto IV' sets Canadian sales record in launch month

May 15, 2008 - 4:12 pm

By: Neil Davidson, THE CANADIAN PRESS

TORONTO - The game only came out on April 29, but "Grand Theft Auto IV" still topped the Canadian sales chart for the month with a record 270,000 copies flying out of the stores.

That number, which translates into $17.13 million for the month, is the biggest at launch in Canada since the NPD Group started tracking the video game industry in 2002.

"Halo 2," in November 2004, sold 222,000 units at launch. Last month "Super Smash Bros. Brawl" debuted at 197,000 copies while "Halo 3" sold 191,000 during its launch in September 2007.

4"Grand Theft Auto IV" racked up more than US$500 million in worldwide sales in its first week of release, with cash registers ringing up US$310 million on the opening day alone.

The Xbox 360 version of the game debuted at No. 1 and the title held down three other places in the Canadian top 10 for April. The PlayStation 3 version ranked third while the more expensive special edition of the game entered the chart at No. 7 (Xbox 360) and No. 8 (PS3), according to the NPD Group.

Nintendo's "Mario Kart," which comes with a steering wheel accessory, debuted at No. 2 while "Grand Turismo 5: Prologue" opened at No. 4 for the PlayStation 3. Nintendo's "Super Smash Bros. Brawl" fell out of the top spot to No. 5.

The top 20 included nine Nintendo titles (five for the Wii and four for the DS), six for PlayStation (three for the PS3, two for the PSP and one for PS2) and five for the Xbox 360.

1.- Grand Theft Auto IV (Xbox 360)
2.- Mario Kart (Wii)
3.- Grand Theft Auto IV (PS3)
4.- Grand Turismo 5: Prologue (PS3)
5.- Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii)

Top 20:
Wii - 5
360 -5
NDS - 4
PS3 - 3
PSP - 2
PS2 - 1

 

[Link]

Because I know about a dozen people who fit this description? Because most people seem to know some Wii owners who fit this description? I'm not saying this is the average Wii owner, but there are plenty of them out there.

Of course the Nintendo franchises are selling. They always have and they probably always will. However, those franchises are not what's selling the Wii to the "casual market." Wii Sports is selling the Wii to the casual market. And it's NOT a bad thing. It's expanding the market. Don't treat it like I'm saying it's a bad thing. I even go to great lengths in my post to explain why it's a good thing.

They may not be what's selling the Wii, but they are certainly reaping the benefits. Pretty much every Nintendo franchise has seen serious gains in sales over last gen.

 

[Davidion]

Because I know about a dozen people who fit this description? Because most people seem to know some Wii owners who fit this description? I'm not saying this is the average Wii owner, but there are plenty of them out there.

Of course the Nintendo franchises are selling. They always have and they probably always will. However, those franchises are not what's selling the Wii to the "casual market." Wii Sports is selling the Wii to the casual market. And it's NOT a bad thing. It's expanding the market. Don't treat it like I'm saying it's a bad thing. I even go to great lengths in my post to explain why it's a good thing.

You know, I entirely agree with what you're saying.

You are, however, ignoring the statistic certainty that PS3 and to a lesser degree, 360 owners, do the same thing.

 

[fernoca]

EDIT - Wait, you mean that's not "Staring At a Blank Screen Training" that comes built into the console?!

Yeah..
Is part of the daily Flash Focus routine..
-Turn on the Wii
-Stare at the screen for at least 1 hour
-Imagine myself playing games on it
-Then come to GAF and talk about those imaginary games I just played: like Super Smash Bros, Geometry Wars Galaxies, No More Heroes, Zack & Wiki, Lost Winds, etc.. (gain extra points for creative names for those imaginary games.I mean "Zack" and "Wiki"?? lololol)

 

[Xeke]

You "gamers" are so delusional. I love it.:lol :lol

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

:lol

You laugh, but if those games aren't capable of moving PS3s then I'd consider the PS3 dead in the water. Both of those games are exclusives. It's not like Gears of War 2 is going to move 360s. I have a feeling that the HD consoles are saturated already and that's just sad.

 

[Slavik81]

Guys, the marketshare your games of choice occupy is irrelevant. What matters is their overall sales.

Have you seen the 360 sales this month?
The first half of this year looks to be as pathetic as the first half of last year.

I'm a disallusioned Xbox fan because Microsoft hasn't actually announced anything surprising of real significance since I bought my 360 in December 2006. Two years ago.

Ok. They've done two things. They announced Ninja Gaiden 2 and added DivX support. But to keep their dominant market position, they needed 4x as many items just as important and as surprising as those. Instead they frittered away their head start and let their sales languish.

Sony might have been incompetent pre-launch (see: why I bought a 360 in December 2006), but ever since then they've done so much to improve their product. Can they make up for their idiocy? I doubt it, but at least they're improving their position.

That's more than I can say of Microsoft. If anyone's holding back gaming, it's Microsoft. They're letting both the Xbox 360 and Games For Windows hang out to dry.

 

[beef3483]

Same for me, to an extent.
As much as I find it amusing, it also makes me feel sad for the people who are so mixed up about this stuff. If only they could have the reasoning and foresight to see the error in their thought process, then everything would be alright. It makes me want to reach out and help people understand how outrageous and/or unrealistic things they have stated are, but knowing the advice would be ignored or go over their heads, I lose my compassionate drive to help out.

: (

I heard you, but, then again, I agreed with what you said before you said it. The Wii itself is a step towards some really amazing things in interactive entertainment.

 

[Grecco]

Because I know about a dozen people who fit this description? Because most people seem to know some Wii owners who fit this description? I'm not saying this is the average Wii owner, but there are plenty of them out there.

Of course the Nintendo franchises are selling. They always have and they probably always will. However, those franchises are not what's selling the Wii to the "casual market." Wii Sports is selling the Wii to the casual market. And it's NOT a bad thing. It's expanding the market. Don't treat it like I'm saying it's a bad thing. I even go to great lengths in my post to explain why it's a good thing.

Its Anectodal evidence. The Reality is that its selling to all sorts of gamers. Not Just Casuals. Not Just Core. Thats why its so popular. It trancends genres and its going to win this gen.

 

[DataBot]

You laugh, but if those games aren't capable of moving PS3s then I'd consider the PS3 dead in the water. Both of those games are exclusives. It's not like Gears of War 2 is going to move 360s. I have a feeling that the HD consoles are saturated already and that's just sad.

Remember that ...

I will Remember...

 

[Mgoblue201]

god this is so depressing...seriously us hardcore gamers are going the way of the dinosaurs. a couple hardware generations from now its gonna be a Nintendo dominated, casual saturated market. well ive enjoyed my hardcore games for the last few years, but soon all the games i love will give way to "casual" games for the dumbed down casual gamer. thanks alot moms of the world

edit: not really being serious here...but i want the hardcore market to be the most financially viable market, so that way we get the most attention.

Have you ever thought that perhaps it has always been this way and the divide between hardcore and casual was masked by the fact that both groups shared a common system nearly every generation? Now everybody can see the divergence for what it is. By definition the hardcore make up a small percentage of the whole. Anything popular is also casual. Football plays to casual fans. You know what's hardcore? Hockey. Of course football also plays to the hardcore, but that segment will never be the most viable. The 360 and PS3 have a lot to do with the divergence of hardcore and casual, and Nintendo was simply in a prime position to capitalize upon that.