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Official April 2008 NPD thread of massive disappointment if you're not Nintendo
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
pr0cs
Member
Price isn't really the issue at this point is it? I can't see that if the 360 was say $50 less that the amount of 360s sold would still be in the 700k range like the Wii.vdo said:
The Wii has the "IT" factor now, something that people want and are proactive in going out to try and find. Just like the iPOD at it's early launch. Not necessarily the best product but because of the IT factor people just had to have.
I don't see Microsoft or Sony able to do anything to get that IT factor at this point. The best they can do is maintain any momentum they have and maintain their software sales because that is where they're going to make their money.
At this point I think Microsoft is just happy to be making money on a platform that was costing them a lot in the past. They're probably satisfied (I didn't say happy) with pulling even with Sony and will continue to be satisfied going neck and neck with them until Fall and the xmas season where they'll likely drop the price to capture the important holiday marketshare.
To the sales age specialists: is Wii on track to reach a 50 million userbase by the end of this fiscal year?
26 millions now
10 millions more until october
8 millions in Nov/Dec
6 millions Jan-March 09
This is very optimistic I reckon, but it's not completely crazy based on what we've seen so far.
26 millions now
10 millions more until october
8 millions in Nov/Dec
6 millions Jan-March 09
This is very optimistic I reckon, but it's not completely crazy based on what we've seen so far.
dammitmattt said:
Assassin's Creed, Resistance, and Uncharted are supposed to be measurements of sales success now? News to me.
And of course there are going to be more new IPs developed for the HD consoles since the entire industry (developers, media, and analysts) expected the PS3 to come in and dominate like last time.
To expect third parties to continue to develop for these systems when the cost of entry and userbase is much more lucrative on the Wii is pretty ridiculous.
B-Rad Lascelle
Banned
Considering that this is GAF, this stigma will never be allowed to die.soldat7 said:
Truth is irrelevant.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
marc^o^ said:
It's a wash.
24.5 million as of end of fiscal 2008 (March 31, 2008).
25 million to be shipped in fiscal 2009.
Now, Nintendo has for the last few years raised its projections repeatedly during the year... If that repeats this year, then shipments will exceed fiddy million during this fiscal year. If it does not raise expectations this year, then they'll squeak just under the line.
http://press.nintendo.com/articles.jsp?id=15197
Can't believe Nintendo didn't use this opportunity to say that the Wii outsold every other competitor combined (PS2, PS3, PSP and X360).
Can't believe Nintendo didn't use this opportunity to say that the Wii outsold every other competitor combined (PS2, PS3, PSP and X360).
Kamakazie!
Member
RJT said:
PCWii here too but not so i can use the Wii-mote on the PC but so i get the best gaming experience at the cheapest price
Sure, i may have to wait a little while (GTA4, Burnout Paradise etc. etc.) but i'm happy with that. I have too many games to play as it is.All the shitting on the Wii in here is ridiculous.
The PS2 did not sell 120m units to the bloody core gamer. It sold 110m units to the casuals because that is where all the casual games/shovelware etc. went and is the console that everyone played on at "their mates". The Wii is simply taking that market right out of the blocks due to the price and mainstream software/appeal.
It is not ruining core gaming in the slightest and even after huge sales of games like CoD4, Halo and GoW people are still saying it is? :lol :lol :lol
EDIT: I'm also not gonna consider a 360 until they sort out that damn RROD issue (complete overhaul or i won't believe it is fixed), which is the thinking of other people i know. As for the PS3.... it is still way to expensive for the gaming it offers (most of what i want is multi-platform).
Don't think it's lost on me how you completely ignore the control innovations brought to the table. Even if you are performing the same actions in the game, doing so with a new controller that might be more intuitive, natural, or fluid is an innovation. To me, games like RE4 and Metroid Prime 3 are standards bearers... games that MS and Sony will NOT be able to ignore. Is it basically just the mouse realized on a console? Yes, but umm..... that's pretty god damn big, and something that up until now know one has been able to get around. Now that it's been solved, you are seeing a lot of stuff coming into the console space that, while second nature to PC gamers, is pretty god damn enlightening and fresh to console only gamers.dammitmattt said:
reread exactly what I wrote. I said larger "percentage". Of course 360 has more new IPs. It has more third party support (which is a whole different discussion). BUT, those titles you listed and other original IPs are fighting for space amongst the landslide of the sequels to the exact same titles we've been playing for the last 10 years. On Wii, most of the sequelitis is happening with Nintendo which comparatively in terms of total available titles is relatively small. The point is that on 360 and PS3, the MO seems to be that if you are a big publisher and are going to make a game for those systems, you are going to make a game in an existing series. On Wii (talking about third parties here), it seems that the two major trains of thoughts are either to port a PS2 game, OR create either an entirely new IP or an entirely new game system inside of an existing franchise. It's a very small percentage of Wii titles that are MOH:A, COD3, etc.
Mind you I am NOT saying Wii is doing it better or that better or more original games are coming on Wii. I am saying though that the Wii is playing a pretty large chunk in advancing the core game market, both in control innovation (through necessity), design innovation (through limitations of the system and the need to work around them), and new IPs (due to devs and pubs not wanting to bring over existing IPs which would be segmenting them from their "traditional" outings on the "traditional" systems).
stuminus3
Member
:lol @ completely absurd Wii hate in this thread.
Wanting to be "hardcore" and wanting to be "number 1 in popularity" is a complete oxymoron in every entertainment industry there ever was. I guess it's because video gaming is still very much still in it's infancy that the "hardcore gamers" are having such trouble with this little identity crisis.
Me, I'm just thrilled that I got to buy GTAIV and MK Wii in the same week.
Wanting to be "hardcore" and wanting to be "number 1 in popularity" is a complete oxymoron in every entertainment industry there ever was. I guess it's because video gaming is still very much still in it's infancy that the "hardcore gamers" are having such trouble with this little identity crisis.
Me, I'm just thrilled that I got to buy GTAIV and MK Wii in the same week.
Hero said:
It's not ridiculous to think that. How is competing directly against Nintendo on their own platform more lucrative? Nintendo doesn't exactly foster third-party development like Microsoft and Sony.
I doubt we'll ever see a third-party hardcore game (new IP or otherwise) on the Wii sell at the level of COD4 or Assassin's Creed.
word, not to mention SingStar and WiiFit two weeks laterstuminus3 said:Me, I'm just thrilled that I got to buy GTAIV and MK Wii in the same week.
seriously.
oh yeah, I don't agree with his assessment at all. What I do agree with is that "hardcore" gamers (I like core gamer so much better) have driven the main focus of the industry for years, and that focus is shifting. Much like Rock drove the focus of the music industry for years and then it shifted. I think hardcore gamers have enjoyed that focus for quite some time and much like all the guys with teased hair back in the 80's don't look forward to being passed over... but his assessment is correct in the regards that the market is potentially shifting focus here and the core gamer isn't liking it. However just like when the spotlight left hard rock back in the 80's and the music industry survived just fine, the game industry will do the same here. Just like there is still rock being recorded there will always be core games being developed.AstroLad said:
pr0cs said:
I agree that the Wii has the "IT" factor and don't think that there is anyway for the other consoles to get near its sales because of that.
But I wasn't saying that if the 360 was priced less, it would have sold more than the Wii. I was saying that there is added baggage to the HD consoles in that they are being marketed as HD and so people may be factoring the HD setup they would need to take advantage of them in their purchase. So, while the Wii would still absolutely trounce the HD consoles in any case, I am thinking that the HD consoles would do somewhat better if more people already had HD setups. I think this first HD generation of consoles has to go through the growing pains of people getting HD setups in the first place. That is actually the main reason that I have not gotten an HD console yet is that I am wanting to get an HDTV first.
dammitmattt
Banned
Hero said:
Did you even read the post that I was responding to? I was responding to the assertion that the innovation and new IP development for core games is as strong or better on the Wii, which I strongly disagreed with. You responded to me with something that has nothing to do with the conversation.
Also, here are some sales figures for you to chew on:
Assassin's Creed - > 3.5 million worldwide
Resistance - > 2.5 million worldwide
Uncharted - > 1.5 million worldwide
Are there any core-focused new IPs on the Wii that have comparable sales?
Kamakazie!
Member
dammitmattt said:
Metacritic you say?
Assassin's Creed - 81
Resistance - 86
Uncharted - 88
No More Heroes - 83
Boom Blox - 85
Zack & Wiki - 87
So they don't come close?
Sales wise i agree but the PS3 is certainly not a bastion of great new IP's no matter how people like to spin it. Is there even a 90+ original IP out on the PS3 yet? The 360 is a different beast, but then it has been out for a year longer and has had the market share lead to warrant the big 3rd party games up until now (and still does sales wise).
EDIT:
Are there any core focussed games full stop? Other than NMH?dammitmattt said:
pr0cs
Member
It's probably a factor but not as much as you would think. A lot of the 'next gen' experiences are great in SD, I played Gears of War in SD with stereo sound with a family member who didn't have a HD setup and we still had a ton of fun.vdo said:
The sales numbers may have been higher if HD had better market penetration in the USA but the numbers still would be no where near the Wii.
I have no solid data on Japan but from what I understand HD is commonplace there and still the Wii does a lot better than the PS3 and 360 so the HD generation isn't that big of a deal.
The Wii is just something people who don't normally game on want to have. Shit, the other day at EB a woman who had to be 70 came in and asked if they had any Wiis in stock. That shit would NEVER happen for a PS3 or 360, no matter how many casual games those platforms might have.
It's a bit of a skewed comparison though, given there's no comparable original "core" game on Wii with the same level of investment or pedigree (which is what I think you were getting at originally). Even then, stuff like Uncharted performed disappointingly given it's budget, promotion, positioning and developer.dammitmattt said:
Red Steel did okay for itself though, and that's likely the most comparable Wii game we have at this point.
dammitmattt
Banned
borghe said:
You didn't mention this point in your original post, so I didn't respond to it. I think Metroid controls great on the Wii, but it's arguable whether that's an innovation or just a replication of what you are already doing with the mouse. Like I said, applications like Wii Sports and Boom Blox are much more innovative.
I agree that developers are trying more new things on the Wii, but very few of those new things are focused at core gamers. Was Boogie focused at core gamers? Was Carnival Games focused at core gamers? There just aren't a lot of new IPs on the Wii focused on core gamers.
I will concede some control innovations, but what design innovations and new core-focused IPs are you speaking of?
Kamakazie! said:
Exactly. That was my point.
jarrod said:
I agree that Uncharted underperformed, but I think you're missing the point that I was originally responding to. The whole point is that there aren't comparable "core" games on the Wii as borghe stated.
AstroLad said:
Gotta disagree here.
On the hardware side, Nintendo has outlasted Atari, Sega, NEC, SNK, Bandai, and 3DO. Chances are good they'll outlast Microsoft and Sony. Hell, they were making playing cards and running "love hotels" before video gaming even existed.
Nintendo isn't infantile, they're wise old businessmen. Constantly turning profit tends to keep you around
mentalfloss
Banned
dammitmattt said:
This is a bit of a subjective rant though. I think Forge, Saved films and DLC are really fun, but not anything particularly special from the perspective of evolving/revolutionizing gameplay. And these are things that actually could be done on Wii to a lesser degree or perhaps to the same extent if Nintendo addresses their storage issues (which I have a feeling they will in the near future).
Comparatively, the control scheme for Pro Evo 08 should be the new standard for controlling soccer games. I think it should also be implemented into hockey games to some degree as well.
And the IPs you've listed could also be done on Wii -- they simply have a graphical facelift. There is nothing, aside from a pure aesthetic that could differentiate a Wii version from the corresponding 360 version of Gears, Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Resistance and Uncharted.
umm... are you really insisting that sales have any bearing on quality? New IPs on Wii:dammitmattt said:
Red Steel
Zack & Wiki
No More Heroes
Boom Blox
Mad World
Opoona
Elebits
LostWinds
MySims
Wii Sports
DragonQuest Swords
And that's just off the top of my head. It should also be noted that these are EXCLUSIVE IPs, and that unlike the PS360 where publishers can spread a new IP over two consoles, the devs here created these IPs knowing that because of the control setup these would end up being exclusive to the Wii.
Just saying, you probably don't want to get into a battle on where the largest relative percentage of original IPs land. Again I concede that it is related a lot to there being less third party support in general for the Wii, but the fact that devs are actually sinking real development time into these IPs says quite a bit.
seattle6418
Member
its very tricky to post in this thread. everything will be seen as a troll by one of the fronts.
still, i can't understand why people are happy that HD consoles are doing bad.
the more i think about it, the less i understand
still, i can't understand why people are happy that HD consoles are doing bad.
the more i think about it, the less i understand
dammitmattt
Banned
borghe said:
I said sales + metacritic. Also, I would've agreed with your original assertation if you wouldn't have confined it to core games.
Also, if you're going to dip into WiiWare, then XBL+PSN will win any list wars in a landslide.
I'm not saying that developments in core games aren't happening on the Wii. I'm just challenging your assertion that it's as big and important on the Wii as the HD systems.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
marc^o^ said:
Holy shit. You mean that Nintendo could surpass SNES's LTD by the end this year?
W.o.w.
My point is that all the games you mentioned were already in development for next-gen HD consoles for years. I like how you neglect to mention other "core" games like Lair or Heavenly Sword because they're especially miserable in comparison. Do you honestly expect developers to continue to fund development for "core" games on PS3/360 when the cost is rather substantial and rather risky?
All you're doing is narrowing down your own selected criteria to the point where there is nothing to argue because you can't. Almost no third parties have developed a "core" "original IP" game by your definition. Though I'm sure you'll dismiss the fact that Red Steel is over a million and NMH is Suda's best selling game ever. Trauma Center: Second Opinion was the best selling Atlus game if I recall correctly. What would you classify Zack and Wiki? Elebits? Dewey's? Games like those aren't exactly casual either you know.
Why do you make this kind of requirement that a game HAS to be a new IP AND focused on core gamers? What good does this do? Answer is none, new IPs focused on core gamers don't drive the industry. Why does it matter if RE:UC, which exceeded Capcom's own expectations, is not an original IP? It's a core game. At this point in the generation third parties are going to have to adapt their business strategy for the next few years or gamble on all their HD original IP, core gamer and risk losses. All it's going to take is for a third party to actually put forth an effort into making a game that Nintendo's own first party library doesn't offer and market it correctly and they'll have some pretty good success.
And can we call "core gamer" by it's real definition now? Niche gamer.
All you're doing is narrowing down your own selected criteria to the point where there is nothing to argue because you can't. Almost no third parties have developed a "core" "original IP" game by your definition. Though I'm sure you'll dismiss the fact that Red Steel is over a million and NMH is Suda's best selling game ever. Trauma Center: Second Opinion was the best selling Atlus game if I recall correctly. What would you classify Zack and Wiki? Elebits? Dewey's? Games like those aren't exactly casual either you know.
Why do you make this kind of requirement that a game HAS to be a new IP AND focused on core gamers? What good does this do? Answer is none, new IPs focused on core gamers don't drive the industry. Why does it matter if RE:UC, which exceeded Capcom's own expectations, is not an original IP? It's a core game. At this point in the generation third parties are going to have to adapt their business strategy for the next few years or gamble on all their HD original IP, core gamer and risk losses. All it's going to take is for a third party to actually put forth an effort into making a game that Nintendo's own first party library doesn't offer and market it correctly and they'll have some pretty good success.
And can we call "core gamer" by it's real definition now? Niche gamer.
dammitmattt
Banned
mentalfloss said:
Nintendo's Wii online interface will NEVER be as good as XBL, which is a huge innovation itself. You have the same online persona across all games with access to your friends and other features at all times. That is a huge innovation right there that Nintendo will never match by adding storage space.
Also, those games could most certainly not be done on the Wii. A large part of their appeal is based on the graphical fidelity of the characters and the world, so you can't strip that away from the game and say "it could be done on Wii."' Also, the scale of Assassin's Creed and Reistance is most definitely not repeatable on the Wii.
Be fair here.
jarrod said:
Because people like you come in and reply with something that has nothing to do with the basic disagreement I had with borghe!!!
dammitmattt
Banned
Hero said:
Dude. READ.
I was replying to a point about new IP focused on core gamers, for fuck's sake. So of course that defines the argument.
Also, the core gamer has always been the niche gamer. Enthusiasts are always niche.
GenericPseudonym
Banned
dammitmattt said:
What? I need a fact check there.
Guys, forget it. Dammitmattt is just trying to post as much as he can before he gets banned from his bet in the March NPD thread.
Okay, and I'm changing the argument because I'm saying it didn't matter in the first place, so I'm also disagreeing with whoever proposed that to begin with. But your criteria is also flawed. I don't think Uncharted was a rather large success by anyone's measurements.
Dammitmattt said:
Dammitmattt said:
dammitmattt said:
Okay, and I'm changing the argument because I'm saying it didn't matter in the first place, so I'm also disagreeing with whoever proposed that to begin with. But your criteria is also flawed. I don't think Uncharted was a rather large success by anyone's measurements.
squicken said:
According to this loser, my entire life; I have not been playing real games.
Apparently
Beyond Good & Evil
Resident Evil
Viewtiful Joe
Ikaruga
Killer 7
Megaman
Phantasy Star
Soul Calibur
Sonic
Metal Gear Solid
Super Monkey Ball
Zack & Wiki
No More Heroes
are not real games
Wii > Sony "family" + Xbox360 is simply unexpected.
We all know that Wii is going strong, but THAT STRONG???
way to go Mario Kart Wii. been playing with friends online/offline for weeks, this game is so much fun
let's wait for next month NPD for the WiiFit/Wii numbers. and see how long will it stay on the chart.
PS: Just got my GAF acc activated. this is my first post. HELLO ALL~
We all know that Wii is going strong, but THAT STRONG???
way to go Mario Kart Wii. been playing with friends online/offline for weeks, this game is so much fun
let's wait for next month NPD for the WiiFit/Wii numbers. and see how long will it stay on the chart.
PS: Just got my GAF acc activated. this is my first post. HELLO ALL~
not when I had posted that you didn't.dammitmattt said:
given the same percentages and timeframe? really? WiiWare launched with 6 entirely new IPs. Next week out of the two games coming one is an entirely new IP. And we know with what's in development that the vast majority are also new IPs. PS3 and 360 win hands down due to being to market longer. But just like I said with the Wii itself, it is more than apparent that now that WiiWare is launched, most of the items coming to it (at least one game a week according to Nintendo) will be almost all new IPs so far.
My assertion was actually that it is happening to a significantly greater degree on the Wii, which I stand by hands down. The majority of them might not stick, and they might not all be great or even good, but you are seeing a staggeringly larger number of new IPs come out on the wii than the other two systems combined. Of course that is because the wii is lower cost and lower risk... but still... the original argument was that wii is killing core gaming, and if anything the wii seems to be where the new life blood of core gaming is coming from, with 360 and PS3 seeming largely content with continuing the games and IPs that dominated last gen for the most part.
I'm sure they could all be roughly re-created on the Wii, but the sacrifices would go beyond visuals. Think for a second about the library the XBOX offered, however, and you'll see that many things we take for granted now are more demanding that you'd think. Half-Life 2, for instance, uses similar physics to Bioshock yet the XBOX could not even begin to handle HL2 properly. The framerate constantly dropped into the toilet the second the physics engaged to any significant degree.jarrod said:
Wii versions of most of these games would feature less complex physical interactions, smaller environments, and other downgrades. I mean, lets face it, bringing a game like Bioshock to the Wii is probably a greater task than bringing something like Max Payne 2 or Mafia to the PS2 and we all know how awful that port was. Sure, it was the same basic game in the end, but the quality of the experience was reduced to the point where there would be no point in bothering with that version. Wii versions of these modern games would have to undergo even greater downgrades. At least the PS2 versions of those games used downgraded versions of original assets.
dammitmattt
Banned
Hero said:
It wasn't a ban bet. It was Bish having fun. "Bet on it" != ban bet.