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[Hcoregamer00]

The HD generation is more about scale, fidelity, and online integration, three things that the Wii can't match in its current state.

I agree to a certain extent, but I have a feeling that Sony and MS will take the wrong lessons away from a Nintendo Wii ass beating this gen.

Next generation should be about SKU integration and a $400 launch price point maximum (along with regular price drops). They don't need to follow Nintendo's path, but I bet they will try.

 

[argon]

this is a VERY common fallacy. the effects of cd-rom from the consumer standpoint didn't really come into play until long after the PSX had usurped the throne. it affected third parties long before public perception thanks to the insanely cheaper cost to manufacture cartridges compared to CDs. Still, Nintendo's bullet points for not using CD were actually dead on (access time, no read/write, mechanical failure, media degradation, etc). Just that none of them could outweigh the cost differential that existed by the time both systems hit maturity.

How is what I said a fallacy?

Nintendo shut off many 3rd parties (including the kingmaker in Japan, Square) by sticking with the more cost-prohibitive and limiting data format from their point of view. With less developers came less games/exclusives, less sales, and thus diminished marketshare.

By not responding to the needs of developers, they failed to accommodate where game development was heading in the mid-90s. Sometimes that's just as important as understanding consumer trends.

Way to use one component that in the end that didn't really matter. A year late, Higher licensing and cartridge costs with the bad blood were more of the nail in the coffin than cartridges. Funny about about your argument is all the reasons yamauchi hated optical media came true and it's still a nasty hit today because the problem transfer speeds has yet to be resolved on big level outside of GC not one optical media system has avoided the issues he mentioned. BR and bigger storage mediums are proving only worse as time goes. Had the industry bothered to drive the costs down and invest in formats like flash or similiar things to cartridges we easily could be a good point today in terms of storage, better than dvd and not worry about the bs optical media brings.

In this case, that one component was a source of much of the later problems. Cartridge costs (due to the format itself) made development cost-prohibitive on the N64. The limited space made cross-platform games a much more difficult and expensive prospect, especially with two other major competitors releasing CD based systems. Finally, sticking with cartridges quite frankly pissed off many of their core developers who were relying on increased storage capacity for their future games, like Square, who promptly jumped ship and took their flagship franchises with them.

Saying cartridges weren't the primary factor in sinking the N64 is just plain revisionist history.

 

[jarrod]

I am not aware of a PS360 "Sadness", for instance.

You're posting in it. :lol

 

[No6]

Right then. How about DS vs. PSP?

The actual values are all academic after a certain point.

I wasn't aware that people were demanding PSP games on the DS with the same regularity as PS360-Wii. Sony also really dropped the ball on the PSP at the beginning when the DS was selling like crap; it wasn't until the DSL and pricedrops that Nintendo basically "caught up" in the tech value arena with the PSP (which had a much worse form factor to the DSL and was 2x the price) and started dominating.

 

[Pureauthor]

Nintendo had to develop certain technology to make Wii as it is. And consumers care about it, they want the technology of the control devices that Nintendo integrated and refined. Just because is a different technology of a graphical card doesn't mean is not technology.

So basically your contention is as long as they don't wholesale repackage their old consoles into new ones, it's considered a 'technologically demanding industry'? You do realize that that means that there is no such thing as an industry that is not technologically demanding, don't you?

I wasn't aware that people were demanding PSP games on the DS with the same regularity as PS360-Wii. Sony also really dropped the ball on the PSP at the beginning when the DS was selling like crap; it wasn't until the DSL and pricedrops that Nintendo basically "caught up" in the tech value arena with the PSP (which had a much worse form factor to the DSL and was 2x the price) and started dominating.

Well, that's because no game announcements worth a damn have been made for the PSP lately! *zing*

And the DS started beating the pants off the PSP WW long before the DSL ever made its appearance. And there has never been a DS pricedrop. Ever.

 

[manueldelalas]

You're posting in it. :lol

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loading...

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Oh I get it!

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Redd]

How is what I said a fallacy?

Nintendo shut off many 3rd parties (including the kingmaker in Japan, Square) by sticking with the more cost-prohibitive and limiting data format from their point of view. With less developers came less games/exclusives, less sales, and thus diminished marketshare.

By not responding to the needs of developers, they failed to accommodate where game development was heading in the mid-90s. Sometimes that's just as important as understanding consumer trends.

Heh they were pretty arrogant back then, hopefully they learned from their past mistakes. It be nice to buy more third party games on my Wii without having to resort to purchasing VC games.

 

[norinrad21]

Fzero on the N64 was 60fps with virtually no slow down. heh

 

[borghe]

How is what I said a fallacy?

Nintendo shut off many 3rd parties (including the kingmaker in Japan, Square) by sticking with the more cost-prohibitive and limiting data format from their point of view. With less developers came less games/exclusives, less sales, and thus diminished marketshare.

By not responding to the needs of developers, they failed to accommodate where game development was heading in the mid-90s. Sometimes that's just as important as understanding consumer trends.

Sorry.. I mixed anecdotes there. My bad.

What I meant to say was that PSX had already taken over in mindshare and marketshare before the N64 really even launched. Most agree that the main turning point in favor of Sony was RE which was early '96. The N64 wasn't even released by that time. By the time N64 actually launched Sony had already lead in market and mindshare. Hell, Nintendo even saw unfettered sales on the N64 at start, but it still fell to sony quickly, and developers didn't even have a chance to "abandon" it at that point.

that's all I am saying. lack of CD had nothing to do with Nintendo losing that generation, yet everyone always insists it does. Nintendo lost because they launched quite a while after sony realized there was an entire market segment that was untapped and ready to go. The real CD issue didn't come into play until well after the table was set. insisting it was because of CDs entirely dismisses what sony was able to catch onto and capitalize on almost immediately.

edit - to put it another way, Nintendo "lost" to the public long before they "lost" to the third parties, and it didn't have a single thing to do with CDs.

 

[Shins]

now that's correct

Gamers != GAF

GAF = loonies with an inflated sense of weight who sometimes play games

Gamers = all those people in the main that create all these pretty statistics to be fought over

 

[jarrod]

I wasn't aware that people were demanding PSP games on the DS with the same regularity as PS360-Wii. Sony also really dropped the ball on the PSP at the beginning when the DS was selling like crap; it wasn't until the DSL and pricedrops that Nintendo basically "caught up" in the tech value arena with the PSP (which had a much worse form factor to the DSL and was 2x the price) and started dominating.

Nintendo's lead really reaches back to mid/late 2005 and software releases like Brain Training, Nintendogs, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing. It was already stomping PSP by the time we got the one two punch of DSL and NSMB in early/mid 2006.

Nintendo stumbled out the gates, but they recovered remarkably quick... almost the opposite of how PSP performed actually.

 

[fernoca]

The problem is the same thing as always..
This "hardcore gamers" thinking that everything should be made (or is made) for them; yet they always ignore that they are such a small group that; that even the "hardcore games on hardcore console" they always flaunt, are getting the big sales they do, because of the "casual gamers"..

Halo, Super Smash, Call of Duty, GTA, Super Mario...
Yeah, they all have their fans and stuff, but those over 3 million copies that each of thsoe games have sold so far..probably around 2.5 are from "casuals gamers"..people that don't read game magazines (except Game Informer) , barely post on forums, never engage in "sales-age" discussions, problably not the most tech-savy, etc..etc...( yeah, I know..'clichés')

Yet, when it comes to Wii "non-games" selling those same 2 million copies..is like "OMG, Nintendo is killing gaming with their casuals"...when in reality, casuals has been the ones driving this industry all this years.

 

[No6]

In terms of rendering sure... but there's several Wii game designs that just couldn't be replicated thanks to interface. Hell, there's even downloadables like Lost Winds that you couldn't really pull off on PS360 as is.

Name a couple, because I'm pretty sure they could be replicated in some fashion, just like most PS360 games could be replicated in some fashion on the Wii, and the former could probably be done with less "loss" than the latter.

You're posting in it.

No kidding.

 

[LCGeek]

In this case, that one component was a source of much of the later problems. Cartridge costs (due to the format itself) made development cost-prohibitive on the N64 and cross-platform games became much more difficult prospect, especially with two other major competitors releasing CD based systems).

Saying cartridges weren't the primary factor in sinking the N64 is just plain revisionist history.

Those problems already existed

High licensing costs were there from the get go or did you forget about dev/publishers incidents from the snes/nes era. Some devs hated nintendo because they only produced a certain amount, played favorites, and in general used their power to keep others out like namco in the early days. You saying there wasn't bad blood is revisionist history. Sony was moneyhatting devs with cheaper fees on a medium they can produce and offering more help. Cartridges were a component but the main please you have to be nuts looking at other facts involved with the situation.

 

[soldat7]

Certainly the Wii's lineup shits all over the 360's minus shooters.

Take away Mario, Zelda, and Metroid and the Wii lineup is....rather sub-par.

 

[dammitmattt]

Take away Mario, Zelda, and Metroid and the Wii lineup is....rather sub-par.

Let's not start this up, please.

 

[Acosta]

So basically your contention is as long as they don't wholesale repackage their old consoles into new ones, it's considered a 'technologically demanding industry'? You do realize that that means that there is no such thing as an industry that is not technologically demanding, don't you?

I'm talking about videogames here.

Technology transform traditional games and allow different ones, that works the same for potency than for control devices. So technology is the driving force that allow to make new offers to the consumers.

It's a pretty clear statement and it's not really something that can be refuted, it's not subjective, what is your point?

 

[Evlar]

Take away Mario, Zelda, and Metroid and the Wii lineup is....rather sub-par.

But I'm not going to take them away because, y'know, they're actually part of the lineup.

 

[Odysseus]

Take away Mario, Zelda, and Metroid and the Wii lineup is....rather sub-par.

take away intelligence and we have your posts

 

[Pureauthor]

I'm talking about videogames here.

Technology transform traditional games and allow different ones, that works the same for potency than for control devices. So technology is the driving force that allow to make new offers to the consumers.

You haven't answered my question - if simply not wholesale recycling old technology counts as a 'technology demanding market', then what isn't a technology demanding market?

BTW? Touchscreen and motion sensing technology are really nothing new. Nintendo didn't need to break the bank to implement either into their systems.

 

[jman2050]

I'm talking about videogames here.

Technology transform traditional games and allow different ones, that works the same for potency than for control devices. So technology is the driving force that allow to make new offers to the consumers.

It's a pretty clear statement and it's not really something that can be refuted, it's not subjective, what is your point?

Are you implying that progress of technology is the most important element of forwarding the industry?

 

[soldat7]

But I'm not going to take them away because, y'know, they're actually part of the lineup.

take away intelligence and we have your posts

Lighten up. I'm countering the argument that the 360 lineup is terrible without it's shooters.

Learn to read people.

 

[BTRA]

Take away Mario, Zelda, and Metroid and the Wii lineup is....rather sub-par.

Take away COD4, Halo 3, BioShock, GTA 4 and the 360 lineup is...rather sub-par. You can do this all day with anything. Think before you type.

 

[Jaruru]

To put an end to this entire thread.

You "hardcore gamers" say Nintendo created a new market?
You say PS2 was a hardcore machine?

I say Nintendo simply stole the market from the PS2. The fact of the matter is, you hardcore gamers represent a small and shrinking market. Proof of this is the horrible PS3 and Xbox 360 sales.

I am tired of these litigations that Nintendo is ruining the videogame market, yet when the PS2 dominated everything was A-Okay!

... ...

Agree. after 1.5 year, I can't believe there are still many ppl who do not accept this. it's not about power/tech, but the IMAGE, reaction of the public.

 

[No6]

Nintendo's lead really reaches back to mid/late 2005 and software releases like Brain Training, Nintendogs, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing. It was already stomping PSP by the time we got the one two punch of DSL and NSMB in early/mid 2006.

Nintendo stumbled out the gates, but they recovered remarkably quick... almost the opposite of how PSP performed actually.

I'm not saying Nintendo wasn't leading but the DS wasn't really consistantly stomping until the DSL/NSMB. Nintendogs launched with a price drop and the associated sales increase was a normal one, nothing significant. MKDS was typical for the holidays, too. Yeah, it did better than the PSP, but because Sony dropped the ball, not because of Nintendo doing anything special (until DSL/NSMB).

 

[jman2050]

take away intelligence and we have your posts

Winner :lol

 

[soldat7]

Take away COD4, Halo 3, BioShock, GTA 4 and the 360 lineup is...rather sub-par. You can do this all day with anything. Think before you type.

Read the preceding posts before you jump to conclusions. That's the exact point I was making.

 

[jarrod]

Name a couple, because I'm pretty sure they could be replicated in some fashion, just like most PS360 games could be replicated in some fashion on the Wii, and the former could probably be done with less "loss" than the latter.

Well, I named Lost Winds already... I guess maybe you could try replicating the winds with the 2nd analog, but it'd be so slow in comparison you'd probably need to alter entire level designs and basic mechanics. Which isn't quite like a lower res, lower geometry Gears or Bio with rougher ragdolls... there's an actual game design change here.

I do think a good amount of Wii games could actually be ported well enough though, butthat speaks more to developers not really pushing it's interface strengths... though the same could be said of PS360's chipsets to be fair.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Take away Mario, Zelda, and Metroid and the Wii lineup is....rather sub-par.

Removing 'Metroid' actually raises the average quite a bit.

 

[Evlar]

Lighten up. I'm countering the argument that the 360 lineup is terrible without it's shooters.

Learn to read people.

OK. I agree the comment about 360 was stupid.

 

[borghe]

Lighten up. I'm countering the argument that the 360 lineup is terrible without it's shooters.

Learn to read people.

it was "take away the shooters and the 360 has a very limited pool of games" which is not an unfair assessment. the truth of the matter is, if shooters aren't your thing possibly the PS3 and definitely the Wii might actually be a better fit for you. On the other hand if you greatly enjoy shooters among other types of games, 360 has a pretty good overall lineup. it isn't that anyone is saying take away all of the 360's good games.. just that the library is incredibly focused on shooters (and driving and sports games for the record). But there are plenty of people out there (myself being one) who those three genres don't appeal much to.

though I still have a 360... however for me personally I could never get away with ONLY having a 360.. without question it would end up sold.

 

[Pureauthor]

Removing 'Metroid' actually raises the average quite a bit.

Don't you start.

 

[jarrod]

I'm not saying Nintendo wasn't leading but the DS wasn't really consistantly stomping until the DSL/NSMB. Nintendogs launched with a price drop and the associated sales increase was a normal one, nothing significant. MKDS was typical for the holidays, too. Yeah, it did better than the PSP, but because Sony dropped the ball, not because of Nintendo doing anything special (until DSL/NSMB).

Depends on the market moreso... this being an NDP thread, if we concentrate on the US market though, it was a *huge* turnaround from where the platform was in early 2005 (where it was routinely outsold by not only PSP, but also GBA). DS passing PSP wasn't due to Sony's fumbling alone, it was a combination of both... but by fall 05, DS was consistently outselling PSP month to month.

And Nintendogs was a huge success, as was Mario Kart (which quickly eclipsed it's GBA predecessor even). Software for the latter half of 05 was hardly business as usual... it was the beginning of the end.

 

[soldat7]

it was "take away the shooters and the 360 has a very limited pool of games" which is not an unfair assessment....

That IS an unfair assessment and it's a stigma that can't seem to die despite evidence to the contrary.

 

[Acosta]

Are you implying that progress of technology is the most important element of forwarding the industry?

I'm clearly saying that is a key element and there is a history to prove it. Videogames can't evolve if technology don't evolve with them.

You haven't answered my question - if simply not wholesale recycling old technology counts as a 'technology demanding market', then what isn't a technology demanding market?

BTW? Touchscreen and motion sensing technology are really nothing new. Nintendo didn't need to break the bank to implement either into their systems.

Nintendo "recycled" part of the technology of GC, but they added new technology that allowed for a new experience. If Nintendo had recycled GC as it was, with the same control device and everything, it would have been a complete failure.

Touchscreen and motion sense ARE technology, you are the one that implies that technology must be new or expensive. Nintendo found a out of the box way to give a different experience using a different technology over a new iteration of the traditional elements of a console, but is still technology.

Do you want an example of a business that doesn't rely that much on technology? books. Books is a pure content business which shows few key technology advancements through its story.

 

[dammitmattt]

it was "take away the shooters and the 360 has a very limited pool of games" which is not an unfair assessment. the truth of the matter is, if shooters aren't your thing possibly the PS3 and definitely the Wii might actually be a better fit for you. On the other hand if you greatly enjoy shooters among other types of games, 360 has a pretty good overall lineup. it isn't that anyone is saying take away all of the 360's good games.. just that the library is incredibly focused on shooters (and driving and sports games for the record). But there are plenty of people out there (myself being one) who those three genres don't appeal much to.

though I still have a 360... however for me personally I could never get away with ONLY having a 360.. without question it would end up sold.

As soon as I take you seriously you buy into this idiotic meme. There are plenty of great adventure, RPG, casual, music, puzzle, etc. etc. etc. games on the 360. It's got a much more varied lineup than the PS3, which is ironically enough even more focused on shooters than the 360 at this point.

It is a completely unfair assessment and don't make people pull up idiotic list wars to prove you wrong.

Jesus Christ....you made me do it just to get it over with before someone else does it....here are games straight from my Gamercard that don't fall into your categories:

GTA4, Wits & Wagers, Rock Band, Scene It, Lost Cities, Carcassone, Bomberman, TMNT Arcade, Condemned 2, Bully, Sonic 2, Lost Odyssey, Boom Boom Rocket, N+, Rez HD, Guitar Hero 3, Devil May Cry 4, Poker Smash, Viva Pinata: Party Animals, Assassin's Creed, Simpsons Game, Mass Effect, Tomb Raider Anniversary, Mutant Storm Empire, Exit, Puzzle Quest, Portal, Beautiful Katamari, Eternal Sonata, Tetris Splash, Puzzle Fighter HD, Guitar Hero 2, Streets of Rage 2, Harry Potter OTTP, Sonic, Geometry Wars, Band of Bugs, Lumines Live, Pac-Man CE, Crackdown, Phantasy Star Universe, Spider-Man 3, Assault Heroes, Eets, Luxor 2, Enchanted Arms, TMNT, Castlevania: SOTN, Cloning Clyde, Mutant Storm Reloaded, Worms, Just Cause, Heavy Weapon, Texas Hold'em, Splinter Cell: DA, Tony Hawk Project 8, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, The Godfather, Saints Row, Dead Rising, Table Tennis, Marble Blast Ultra, UNO, Tomb Raider Legend, Oblivion, Amped 3, Condemned, Hexic, DOA4, Kameo, etc. etc. etc.

Most of these are quality games. Many of them are arcade games. Retort?

 

[Grecco]

That IS an unfair assessment and it's a stigma that can't seem to die despite evidence to the contrary.

Just like the whole Third parties dont sell on Wii stigma that cant die despite evidence to the contrary.

 

[ZealousD]

Name a couple, because I'm pretty sure they could be replicated in some fashion, just like most PS360 games could be replicated in some fashion on the Wii, and the former could probably be done with less "loss" than the latter.

Trauma Center
Elebits

And then of course there are those games that you technically could do with a standard controller, but doing so would remove a lot of the fun.

Rayman Raving Rabbids
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Zack and Wiki

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

What's going on here?

 

[kame-sennin]

You are completely wrong. This is one of the most technology demanding business around, and there is a large trajectory of efforts to prove it.

Seriously, so wrong is not even funny, get your facts straight and don´t disrespect all the history of this field (Nintendo's efforts included).

No, from a business standpoint, he's right. Videogames are NOT a technology industry. It is, and always has been, an entertainment industry. The companies that failed to realize this are now suffering.

 

[Pureauthor]

Nintendo "recycled" part of the technology of GC, but they added new technology that allowed for a new experience. If Nintendo had recycled GC as it was, with the same control device and everything, it would have been a complete failure.

Touchscreen and motion sense ARE technology, you are the one that implies that technology must be new or expensive. Nintendo found a out of the box way to give a different experience using a different technology over a new iteration of the traditional elements of a console, but is still technology.

Very well. Point conceded.

But this deals with videogames themselves, not the business aspect of things.

 

[fernoca]

Nintendo "recycled" part of the technology of GC, but they added new technology that allowed for a new experience. If Nintendo had recycled GC as it was, with the same control device and everything, it would have been a complete failure.

Keep in mind, that the chipsets on the Wii (like Broadway and Hollywood) are all new..along with everything else..there's no such thing as Nintendo recycling GameCube's technology to make Wiis...

The whole "recyling GameCube" and "2 GCN duct-taped together" ideas started when Matt (from IGN) started posting info about his sources and people he knew that were talking about how the Wii was slightly more powerful than an Xbox oand/or basically twice as powerful as the GameCube..or that the Wii was just an overclocked GameCube..

 

[soldat7]

Just like the whole Third parties dont sell on Wii stigma that cant die despite evidence to the contrary.

To my knowledge the only third-party game on Wii not aimed at the casual market to go over a million is RE4. That isn't very encouraging for third-party developers.

I'd love to be wrong.

 

[No6]

Well, I named Lost Winds already... I guess maybe you could try replicating the winds with the 2nd analog, but it'd be so slow in comparison you'd probably need to alter entire level designs and basic mechanics. Which isn't quite like a lower res, lower geometry Gears or Bio with rougher ragdolls... there's an actual game design change here.

Maybe (although if I can play Lemmings or PC RTSs on consoles then I don't think it would be that bad), but at the same time you're now trying to narrow what constitutes game design. Unfortunately this walks right into the games/art argument so I'll leave it alone with just that I think Lost Winds could be done, but it would be at the same level of aggravation that, say, the LOTR RTS game had on 360.

I do think a good amount of Wii games could actually be ported well enough though, butthat speaks more to developers not really pushing it's interface strengths... though the same could be said of PS360's chipsets to be fair.

Personally I don't think we'll ever see much on the Wii that couldn't be replicated on the PCS3 (and PS360PC if MS ever lets us use a mouse), but that's largely due to what I feel is underpowered tech in the Wii controllers. I think a big part of the reason we're seeing so much casual fodder on the Wii is because the controller is just too limited. I'd have much rather had another sensor bar and just stripped out the worthless remote speaker.

 

[jibblypop]

Certainly the Wii's lineup shits all over the 360's minus shooters.

I only have a Wii but I think you are crazy if you think the Wii lineup shits all over the 360 minus shooters. I could see your point if you said "it's a better lineup in my opinion" but "shits all over" is just completely false.

 

[dammitmattt]

Trauma Center
Elebits

And then of course there are those games that you technically could do with a standard controller, but doing so would remove a lot of the fun.

Rayman Raving Rabbids
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Zack and Wiki

Boom Blox
Boom Blox
Boom Blox

 

[Redd]

As soon as I take you seriously you buy into this idiotic meme. There are plenty of great adventure, RPG, casual, music, puzzle, etc. etc. etc. games on the 360. It's got a much more varied lineup than the PS3, which is ironically enough even more focused on shooters than the 360 at this point.

It is a completely unfair assessment and don't make people pull up idiotic list wars to prove you wrong.

Jesus Christ....

Makes you wonder about Japan. I know I'm part of the problem going with the PS3 over the 360(would love to have both) to compliment my Wii but I need the next installment of MGS and Final Fantasy.

 

[No6]

Trauma Center
Elebits

And then of course there are those games that you technically could do with a standard controller, but doing so would remove a lot of the fun.

Rayman Raving Rabbids
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Zack and Wiki

TC and Elebits could certainly be done with a standard controller, and whether or not fun is removed is not the contention. Boom Blox I haven't played but from the videos it looks like it could be done easily with a sixaxis (or some really arcane analog method).

 

[fernoca]

To my knowledge the only third-party game on Wii not aimed at the casual market to go over a million is RE4. That isn't very encouraging for third-party developers.

I'd love to be wrong.

Based on your definition of "not aimed at the casual market"...
-Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
-Guitar Hero III
-Red Steel
-Sonic and the Secret Rings

There are more third-party games (like Mario & Sonic at the Olympics and a few others)...though you ma ysee them as "casual/non games"...

Though the list seems to be outdated, since Nintendo claims there are more..

 

[Evlar]

To my knowledge the only third-party game on Wii not aimed at the casual market to go over a million is RE4. That isn't very encouraging for third-party developers.

I'd love to be wrong.

Red Steel is over a million I think (that might be shipped, not sold... I can't remember). GH3 is well over a million, in the 2.5 million range I think, but you may consider that "casual". At any rate 1 million is a pretty high standard for normal game development. Third parties should be judging games by their sales potential based on the concept, marketing, and established audience and I see very few games from third parties on Wii that could expect to hit the million mark.

To put it another way: Konami (as an example) shouldn't be crying about the state of Wii third party sales when they release Elebits and Dewey and not much else.