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[xs_mini_neo]

this is a VERY common fallacy. the effects of cd-rom from the consumer standpoint didn't really come into play until long after the PSX had usurped the throne. it affected third parties long before public perception thanks to the insanely cheaper cost to manufacture cartridges compared to CDs. Still, Nintendo's bullet points for not using CD were actually dead on (access time, no read/write, mechanical failure, media degradation, etc). Just that none of them could outweigh the cost differential that existed by the time both systems hit maturity.

Exactly. The PS1 was the first system I ever owned that broke at the drop of a pin. The first one skipped its ass off the week after I bought it, and seemed to be programmed to kamikaze itself upon purchase. The second one fell off my tv less than two feet to a soft carpet floor and never fully recovered until its death (had to play it upside down.). The third I sold for a ps2, lol. The N64 fell, got dirty, and still that sucker is alive and well more than ten years later, and it is a fucking launch system. Hell, my Genesis is still kicking after 16 years, while my launch SNES died a few years ago, BUT CAME BACK TO FUCKING LIFE two years ago! Take that, PS1 accidental high sales! Which magazine made that joke back then about people having to buy two or three replacement systems as the reason for that system's huge success? Was it GI or EGM? It was a little while after FFVII was released in the U.S.

There are plenty of reasons to shed bitter tears over the stupidity exhibited by the third parties of ten years ago. Nintendo may have been asshole-ish back in the day, but that doesn't excuse the reckless massive party shift that to this day the problems it created can still be felt. Most of those third parties either died or died 'in spirit'. The Square of today carries little clout compared to their glory days.

My SNES may have appeared to have died at the time, but I have a feeling it may have been something temporary that resolved itself with time, but since I didn't check on it in years, its tale of death and resurrection shall stand for all of time. Praise Jesnes.

 

[Lostconfused]

I'm just collecting a bunch of pathetic troll/fanboy/whiner posts so I can laugh at them all at once. :lol

Now we have to wait for some to do it for the other side or just make some snarky post about some company or other. Really there is no debate in this thread just pointless bitching and whining from every side imaginable.

 

[Innotech]

Exactly. The PS1 was the first system I ever owned that broke at the drop of a pin. The first one skipped its ass off the week after I bought it, and seemed to be programmed to kamikaze itself upon purchase. The second one fell off my tv less than two feet to a soft carpet floor and never fully recovered until its death (had to play it upside down.). The third I sold for a ps2, lol. The N64 fell, got dirty, and still that sucker is alive and well more than ten years later, and it is a fucking launch system. Hell, my Genesis is still kicking after 16 years, while my launch SNES died a few years ago, BUT CAME BACK TO FUCKING LIFE two years ago! Take that, PS1 accidental high sales! Which magazine made that joke back then about people having to buy two or three replacement systems as the reason for that system's huge success? Was it GI or EGM? It was a little while after FFVII was released in the U.S.

There are plenty of reasons to shed bitter tears over the stupidity exhibited by the third parties of ten years ago. Nintendo may have been asshole-ish back in the day, but that doesn't excuse the reckless massive party shift that to this day the problems it created can still be felt. Most of those third parties either died or died 'in spirit'. The Square of today carries little clout compared to their glory days.

My SNES may have appeared to have died at the time, but I have a feeling it may have been something temporary that resolved itself with time, but since I didn't check on it in years, its tale of death and resurrection shall stand for all of time. Praise Jesnes.

I recently got a Sega Saturn that still works beautifully, so not all disc systems were shit.

 

[AniHawk]

too all the kids screaming "wait til wii fit " .... I dont know what this means.. but most stores in my district only got in ~40 wii fits in... compared to the ~450 GTAs we got in for PS360...

just saying...

My old store got 80 in, and they only have 4 extra on top of their reservations. They're the top of their district.

The Wii's gonna sell out regardless, but there will also be shortages of Wii Fit.

 

[Innotech]

anyway, I thought I had seen a thread about Pachters reaction to NPD? where did that go?

 

[Lobster]

too all the kids screaming "wait til wii fit " .... I dont know what this means.. but most stores in my district only got in ~40 wii fits in... compared to the ~450 GTAs we got in for PS360...

just saying...

Seems like Australia got your copies.

Had over 100 Wii Fits at JB-Hi-Fi.

WAS CRAZY

 

[Redd]

Stuff.

I don't know my Gamecube is a well built monster. I've got 2 dogs and they keep hitting the cords and my Cube drops to the floor more times than I can count. Besides having to adjust the laser it still works flawlessly. It can't hold up to dog piss though, but that's what the warranty is for.

 

[Evlar]

No. I'm not buying Wii Fit. Not at release. Nope. Don't have the money. I don't really care that it's probably going to be sold out for months.

God I hate being a consumer whore.

 

[Redd]

My old store got 80 in, and they only have 4 extra on top of their reservations. They're the top of their district.

The Wii's gonna sell out regardless, but there will also be shortages of Wii Fit.

That reminds me I need to drop another $40 on both the MGS4 special edition and Wii Fit so I don't have to scramble to pay the bulk of my preorders on their respective launches. Been burned to many times by gamestop keeping my preorder monies.

 

[jarrod]

I recently got a Sega Saturn that still works beautifully, so not all disc systems were shit.

The Saturn really was a tank... my launch units *still* works, and has never had a problem (unlike my PSX, DC, PS2 & GC).

 

[Jammy]

Wii Fit won't do the best in the GameStops and Best Buys of N.A. It's shipments and advertising fits perfectly with the more upscale and mature Targets and Wal-Marts.

 

[Vish]

GTAIV came out on the 29th, so how is it 5 days instead of 1 or 2? Did they stop recording on saturday (instead of WED) or what?

 

[RBH]

GTAIV came out on the 29th, so how is it 5 days instead of 1 or 2?

Because NPD doesn't simply track from the beginning of the month straight to the end. For the April NPD, the tracking period was from April 6 - May 3.

 

[schuelma]

GTAIV came out on the 29th, so how is it 5 days instead of 1 or 2? Did they stop recording on saturday (instead of WED) or what?

magic

 

[Spiegel]

1 POKEMON MYSTERY DUNGEON: EXPLORERS OF DARKNESS
2 POKEMON MYSTERY DUNGEON: EXPLORERS OF TIME
3 CRISIS CORE: FINAL FANTASY VII
4 NEW SUPER MARIO BROS
5 MARIO KART
6 MARIO PARTY
7 MARIO AND SONIC: OLYMPIC GAMES
8 GOD OF WAR: CHAINS OF OLYMPUS
9 IMAGINE: BABYZ
10 POKEMON DIAMOND VERSION

Crisis Core & Chains of olympus doing well. And it's a sad month if the fucking Imagine Babyz is doing better than TWEWY

 

[Vish]

Because NPD doesn't simply track from the beginning of the month straight to the end. For the April NPD, the tracking period was from April 6 - May 3.

Oh okay.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Mine has been locked away in a dark room since last september, i kinda wish i knew where that room was too.

Different folks, different strokes. But yet I don't think that the HD consoles have shitty libraries but it's common place think that the Wii does.

Nintendo is clearly pushing out as much content as they can to satisfy consumers in the hopes that by the time they run out of core franchises, third parties will have jumped on. Essentially, it's the DS strategy all over again. If third parties never jump on, Nintendo will still be able to reinvigorate the system with games like Wii Fit, but ultimately, sales will die down.

We have yet to see any evidence that the Wii needs anything other than Wii Sports in the U.S. to fly off store shelves and even less evidence that it's going to slow down in the forseeable future. Every time that I see people say "I wonder what "X" game is going to do to boost Wii sales" or "Well Nintendo needs to do "X" to attract third parties" I slap my forehead.

Nintendo could give a shit right now about third party sales. In fact they'd probably prefer to keep all the Wii software dollars for themselves. They'd still be dominating DS sales if they hadn't changed their focus to the Wii.

 

[gkryhewy]

Wii Fit won't do the best in the GameStops and Best Buys of N.A. It's shipments and advertising fits perfectly with the more upscale and mature Targets and Wal-Marts.

:lol

The mind boggles.

 

[M3d10n]

I recently got a Sega Saturn that still works beautifully, so not all disc systems were shit.

QTF. I got a Sega CDX (1994). Bought it from a pawnshop without any cables. Reads CDs perfectly, while the cart slot takes lots of cartridge pushing/pulling in order to work. Blaming the entire CD media for the PS1 fuck ups is unfair.

Load times and hardware sturdiness were the least of Nintendo concerns regarding CD-ROM. They simply wouldn't be able to charge devs and publishers as much as they did with the carts. They'd also need to pay royalties for the CD-ROM drives. Piracy wasn't given much thought back then, but there was the risk of 3rd parties mastering their own discs (which was a nonsense: even the Sega CD had a small protection to make unsigned code illegal).

 

[Azelover]

We have yet to see any evidence that the Wii needs anything other than Wii Sports in the U.S. to fly off store shelves and even less evidence that it's going to slow down in the forseeable future. Every time that I see people say "I wonder what "X" game is going to do to boost Wii sales" or "Well Nintendo needs to do "X" to attract third parties" I slap my forehead.

Nintendo could give a shit right now about third party sales. In fact they'd probably prefer to keep all the Wii software dollars for themselves. They'd still be dominating DS sales if they hadn't changed their focus to the Wii.

I disagree. Nintendo is fighting disinterest as well, sure Wii Sports is selling a lot of systems but they want people to keep playing them, specially the new players. That's where third parties could be very useful if they had a clue, but I hope Nintendo can find an alternative to this problem, I sure don't want to see mass disinterest take place in these leading platforms, that would be terrible for our entire industry.

 

[RBH]

Here's the April NPD Top Ten list for Xbox 360 software:

1. Grand Theft Auto IV
2. Rock Band
3. Call of Duty 4
4. Raibow Six Vegas 2
5. Guitar Hero III
6. Army of Two
7. MLB 2K8
8. Halo 3
9. Iron Man
10. Dark Sector

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/874/874532p1.html

 

[kame-sennin]

We have yet to see any evidence that the Wii needs anything other than Wii Sports in the U.S. to fly off store shelves and even less evidence that it's going to slow down in the forseeable future. Every time that I see people say "I wonder what "X" game is going to do to boost Wii sales" or "Well Nintendo needs to do "X" to attract third parties" I slap my forehead.

Nintendo could give a shit right now about third party sales. In fact they'd probably prefer to keep all the Wii software dollars for themselves. They'd still be dominating DS sales if they hadn't changed their focus to the Wii.

I'm talking long term, 3-5 years out. Even the DS slows down when there isn't software to push it. Right now Wii is riding on Wii Sports and will continue to ride on Wii Fit, but that will only last for a few years. However, I stated that I believe third parties will be on board by then, not to mention whatever else Nintendo will have come up with to drive sales.

I disagree. Nintendo is fighting disinterest as well, sure Wii Sports is selling a lot of systems but they want people to keep playing them, specially the new players. That's where third parties could be very useful if they had a clue, but I hope Nintendo can find an alternative to this problem, I sure don't want to see mass disinterest take place in these leading platforms, that would be terrible for our entire industry.

Iwata seems obsessed with the issue of player disinterest. That's why he pushes the Wii channels so hard. I don't think Nintendo is going slip up on that front.

 

[Busaiku]

Here's the April NPD Top Ten list for Xbox 360 software:

1. Grand Theft Auto IV
2. Rock Band
3. Call of Duty 4
4. Raibow Six Vegas 2
5. Guitar Hero III
6. Army of Two
7. MLB 2K8
8. Halo 3
9. Iron Man
10. Dark Sector

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/874/874532p1.html

Assuming this is revenue since RB is ahead of CoD4.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

its pretty funny that the wii is called cheap despite being the most expensive console in nintendo history.

Yep. By this time in its life, GCN had been $150 for a full year. But then, PS2 and Xbox had been $200 or less for a long time, too.

 

[Saint Gregory]

I disagree. Nintendo is fighting disinterest as well, sure Wii Sports is selling a lot of systems but they want people to keep playing them, specially the new players. That's where third parties could be very useful if they had a clue, but I hope Nintendo can find an alternative to this problem, I sure don't want to see mass disinterest take place in these leading platforms, that would be terrible for our entire industry.

You're looking at things from a gamers prospective (which you should, this is a gaming board after all) and I also wish that Nintendo would go all out to draw the most games they can to the system. Gamers want more games, which is why the Wii will most likely never be a core gamer system.

What a lot of people are missing is that Nintendo is a very traditional video game company (duh) and like Sega builds their systems for their games first and foremost. Any third party sales are gravy to them. Too many people are wrapped up in Sony's game strategy (it did work for a decade after all) that's based on making a system for everyone to thrive on. Ironically Sony seemed to back away from that strategy this gen and talked a lot early on about the importance of their first party games, most likely because they saw what that strategy has done for Nintendo. Hasn't worked out that great so far...

I'm talking long term, 3-5 years out. Even the DS slows down when there isn't software to push it. Right now Wii is riding on Wii Sports and will continue to ride on Wii Fit, but that will only last for a few years. However, I stated that I believe third parties will be on board by then, not to mention whatever else Nintendo will have come up with to drive sales.



Iwata seems obsessed with the issue of player disinterest. That's why he pushes the Wii channels so hard. I don't think Nintendo is going slip up on that front.

If you look at the channels that Nintendo has pushed out so far what do they all have in common? They're all basically market research channels designed to help them figure out what Wii owners want to play, what their interests are, etc. Where you see Nintendo trying to keep players interested I see them trying to figure out how they can make money. Although in the end if they use that data to make more focused games then that will keep Wii owners interested.

Do you think they share that data with third parties?

 

[Bastion]

GOOD. The industry was getting stagnant. Do you know how many FPS are coming to 360 this year? What are you people so afraid of your gaming dungeon turning into the family room?

Because I don't want those stupid waggle controls.

 

[Mariah Carey]

Wow wee, I check back in after stepping off the G4 and I'm confronted by this crazy thread. I'm not even sure what the commotion is? The numbers make perfect sense.

 

[Deku]

I'm talking long term, 3-5 years out. Even the DS slows down when there isn't software to push it. Right now Wii is riding on Wii Sports and will continue to ride on Wii Fit, but that will only last for a few years. However, I stated that I believe third parties will be on board by then, not to mention whatever else Nintendo will have come up with to drive sales.



Iwata seems obsessed with the issue of player disinterest. That's why he pushes the Wii channels so hard. I don't think Nintendo is going slip up on that front.

Iwata actually seems pretty level headed and realistic about the kinds of problems Nintendo faces now that they've achieved their initial goal. This includes core gamer antagonism and keeping those new players playing. The Wii is a flawed platform, but the analysis on every NPD thread, especially on the months when the Wii trounced everyone else, is so caustic and deliberately (or at least I would hope so) dishonest intellectually that it's as much fun as it is educational to try to address some of those points.

And secondly, the DS would more likely have a 10 year life cycle than say, the PS3.

 

[legend166]

Because I don't want those stupid waggle controls.

Guess who's back.

 

[beef3483]

Removing 'Metroid' actually raises the average quite a bit.

Prime trolls are so unoriginal.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Because I don't want those stupid waggle controls.

I think you'll change your mind. As I said earlier, I mostly game on my 360, but when a game implements Wii control elegantly, there's nothing else like it. The most recent Lost Winds felt like an excercise in caligraphy. It's such a satisfting, tactile feeling. Unless your fine-motor skills are bad, motion control is quite a blast when done right.

 

[justchris]

People keep touting the software success on the 360 as a key indicator that 3rd parties will continue to focus on HD consoles.

The problem with this is, the most successful products on both the PS3 and the 360 are those with the biggest, widest spread marketing. Name 3rd party products on the Wii with marketing to match anything on the PS360. I can name two: Red Steel and Mario & Sonic at the Olympics. And you know what, both of thsoe games were massive successes.

Compare them to other games whose sales were more disappointing (to GAF anyway): Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, Okami; None of these games had big marketing budgets, and because of this, regardless of their quality, their sales were limited to those who knew about them. This is not a problem GTAIV or CoD4 had.

 

[jordan0386]

Any game marketed well can sell, so I dont understand your point really.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

People keep touting the software success on the 360 as a key indicator that 3rd parties will continue to focus on HD consoles.

The problem with this is, the most successful products on both the PS3 and the 360 are those with the biggest, widest spread marketing. Name 3rd party products on the Wii with marketing to match anything on the PS360. I can name two: Red Steel and Mario & Sonic at the Olympics. And you know what, both of thsoe games were massive successes.

Compare them to other games whose sales were more disappointing (to GAF anyway): Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, Okami; None of these games had big marketing budgets, and because of this, regardless of their quality, their sales were limited to those who knew about them. This is not a problem GTAIV or CoD4 had.

I have been saying this (to myself) for months. It is very true, and very frustrating as well.

Any game marketed well can sell, so I dont understand your point really.

Er..that is his point. Most Wii third party games are not marketed anywhere near as much or as effectively as third party PS3/360 games.

 

[BTRA]

Because I don't want those stupid waggle controls.

Waggle controls are what FPS needs. Dual Joystick is an abomination to FPS. It's simply not good.

 

[schuelma]

Any game marketed well can sell, so I dont understand your point really.

I believe his point is that most Wii 3rd party games simply aren't advertised.

 

[LowParry]

This thread is still going on? :lol

 

[kame-sennin]

If you look at the channels that Nintendo has pushed out so far what do they all have in common? They're all basically market research channels designed to help them figure out what Wii owners want to play, what their interests are, etc. Where you see Nintendo trying to keep players interested I see them trying to figure out how they can make money. Although in the end if they use that data to make more focused games then that will keep Wii owners interested.

Do you think they share that data with third parties?

At first I was going to say no, but after I thought about it, Nintendo seems to be really open about its business strategy this gen. It's just that nobody listens. Prior to launch, they said they wanted your mom to play videogames, and everybody laughed. Now third parties are scrambling to make casual games. Iwata has also pointed out gaps in the Wii library that third parties should fill, we'll see if they take his advice.

You're looking at things from a gamers prospective (which you should, this is a gaming board after all) and I also wish that Nintendo would go all out to draw the most games they can to the system. Gamers want more games, which is why the Wii will most likely never be a core gamer system.

Like the DS?

What a lot of people are missing is that Nintendo is a very traditional video game company (duh) and like Sega builds their systems for their games first and foremost. Any third party sales are gravy to them. Too many people are wrapped up in Sony's game strategy (it did work for a decade after all) that's based on making a system for everyone to thrive on. Ironically Sony seemed to back away from that strategy this gen and talked a lot early on about the importance of their first party games, most likely because they saw what that strategy has done for Nintendo. Hasn't worked out that great so far...

I think the exact opposite. Iwata has actually mentioned that the system with the best and most software wins. Even on the Gamecube, he put a lot of effort into getting more third party games. I think Nintendo is trying to create a highbrid between the Playstation and Nintendo business models. Maintaining their profitability and strong first party games, while having a huge third party library. They've executed it on the DS, and though I'm in the extreme minority, I think they will do so on Wii as well.

 

[bigmakstudios]

... why is the Wii selling so much? I've said it a million times, but I'll say it again. In my opinion, its library is looking to be significantly worse than Gamecube's. Gamecube at least received a ton of multiplatform games, since it was easy enough to port games over from PS2 and Xbox. The incessant sales disparity between consoles with well established libraries of games that appeal to people who actually like to play video games rather than consoles like Wii, which host little more than plain, awkwardly controlled, mini game compilations, effortless PS2 ports and sporadically a good sequel to a Nintendo series, like Metroid Prime 3: Corruption and Super Mario Galaxy, actually concerns me, as someone who has really liked what 360 has had to offer, and really regretted buying a Wii, since it implies that Wii owners didn't buy the system for a quality library of games. I'd get into a list war, but it would be redundant. We all know what 360, Wii, and PS3 have to offer.

Now, if I inconceivably was interested in things (I'm relucant to call them games) like Wii Sports, I might feel differently. But I'm not, and since that is what seems to sell the system, there is very little for me to play for it. And I sincerely hope that this shit doesn't spread to Sony and Microsoft consoles next generation. I'd have to go on suicide watch.

On the other hand, I'm fine with games that don't rigidly fall under the standard definition of a game, with very little "rules" or simple controls. But, I don't like it when these games are shallow and feature poor, inaccurate motion controls that are inexplicably extolled by the media. Seriously, at the very least, it's insane to say that Wii Sports should be played realistically. That shit doesn't work. At all. The software doesn't recognize realistic motions nearly as well as it does acute wrist flicks. I don't understand how that's "immersive". In fact, I feel less immersed when a realistic motion doesn't register properly, unintentionally resulting in a lob, when specific types of punches aren't detected in boxing, etc, than I do when button presses function flawlessly. And it's not as if Wii developers have used motion control to add depth to games. They simply replace button presses with waggle, in most cases.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, I'll go cry a little, and shank myself.

Spoiler

not really

 

[jordan0386]

Everything on Wii sells doesnt it? So who cares about marketing.

If you accept Wii as a casual buyer machine, how can you expect hardcore game purchasing tendencies?

10 titles doing 350k is just as good as a few million sellers.

 

[HK-47]

GTA IV, multiple price drops, and a huge number of other changes later, the results for the HD consoles were supposed to have a big boost this month. Everyone was predicting it. That they didn't pretty much confirms what Odysseus has been saying for the past few years: one game isn't going to change everything all at once.

Save MH for the PSP...thats the one game I have seen with a sustained affect on sales.

 

[kame-sennin]

People keep touting the software success on the 360 as a key indicator that 3rd parties will continue to focus on HD consoles.

The problem with this is, the most successful products on both the PS3 and the 360 are those with the biggest, widest spread marketing. Name 3rd party products on the Wii with marketing to match anything on the PS360. I can name two: Red Steel and Mario & Sonic at the Olympics. And you know what, both of thsoe games were massive successes.

Compare them to other games whose sales were more disappointing (to GAF anyway): Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, Okami; None of these games had big marketing budgets, and because of this, regardless of their quality, their sales were limited to those who knew about them. This is not a problem GTAIV or CoD4 had.

Gaf is top ten focused. A lot of people really believe that if a game doesn't sell a million copies, it's a bomb. But you can't really blame people when we only get top ten on NPD.

 

[Deku]

Gaf is top ten focused. A lot of people really believe that if a game doesn't sell a million copies, it's a bomb. But you can't really blame people when we only get top ten on NPD.

Nah, its intellectual dishonesty. That and the ones who deliberately want to be dishonest about the software discussions hit the jackpot when NPD cracked down on our leaks.

So they can make pretty much any claim they want based on the meager view the top 10 provides, which is like saying a book is vile because you saw partially nude women on the cover art. It means absolutely nothing!

 

[ViperVisor]

Have read through it all so far, Some comments on a couple things.

Gaming isn't dead or dying.
3rd party games aren't under preforming on Wii.
3rd party games of all types are coming.

Agree that carts weren't the main cause of the N64 stumble.

 

[justchris]

Everything on Wii sells doesnt it? So who cares about marketing.

If you accept Wii as a casual buyer machine, how can you expect hardcore game purchasing tendencies?

10 titles doing 350k is just as good as a few million sellers.

Not to the company that published the 350k selling game.

Any game marketed well can sell, so I dont understand your point really.

That...that was my point. The best selling games on the PS3 and 360 have received the longest dev times and the most marketing. Most 3rd party Wii games are less polished and receive much less marketing. (We're not even going to go into how ineffective it is marketing primarily on pages only visitied by enthusiasts for games on a console with such wide appeal.)

Do you think games like Mario Kart Wii, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Mario Galaxy & Zelda TP were massive multimillion sellers because they're first party games? Sure, their pedigree gives them a boost, but nobody buys a game they don't know exists. If third party games on the Wii got the same marketing budget as 3rd party games on other consoles, or even 1st party games on the Wii, their sales would probably be comparable (assuming comparable quality...and there are at least a few quality 3rd party games on the Wii).

 

[LowParry]

Have read through it all so far, Some comments on a couple things.

Gaming isn't dead or dying.
3rd party games aren't under preforming on Wii.
3rd party games of all types are coming.

Agree that carts weren't the main cause of the N64 stumble.

Carts were a big factor with the N64. It lost one of the big key franchises which latered turned into the biggest fanboi game ever created.

 

[beef3483]

I just want to say that as a core gamer since the NES, the Wii was the console that kept me from dropping gaming this generation.

Better chipsets and online was the big push for PS3 and Xbox 360, but that really wasn't any different from Sony and Microsofts value propositions of last gen (most especially Microsofts), except that they had the audacity to charge more for it this time around.

What Nintendo has done is forego innovation that one can only be seen on-screen, for innovation that is in our hands. To me, that is infinitely more important.

 

[LCGeek]

... why is the Wii selling so much? I've said it a million times, but I'll say it again. In my opinion, its library is looking to be significantly worse than Gamecube's. Gamecube at least received a ton of multiplatform games, since it was easy enough to port games over from PS2 and Xbox. The incessant sales disparity between consoles with well established libraries of games that appeal to people who actually like to play video games rather than consoles like Wii, which host little more than plain, awkwardly controlled, mini game compilations, effortless PS2 ports and sporadically a good sequel to a Nintendo series, like Metroid Prime 3: Corruption and Super Mario Galaxy, actually concerns me, as someone who has really liked what 360 has had to offer, and really regretted buying a Wii, since it implies that Wii owners didn't buy the system for a quality library of games. I'd get into a list war, but it would be redundant. We all know what 360, Wii, and PS3 have to offer.

Now, if I inconceivably was interested in things (I'm relucant to call them games) like Wii Sports, I might feel differently. But I'm not, and since that is what seems to sell the system, there is very little for me to play for it. And I sincerely hope that this shit doesn't spread to Sony and Microsoft consoles next generation. I'd have to go on suicide watch.

On the other hand, I'm fine with games that don't rigidly fall under the standard definition of a game, with very little "rules" or simple controls. But, I don't like it when these games are shallow and feature poor, inaccurate motion controls that are inexplicably extolled by the media. Seriously, at the very least, it's insane to say that Wii Sports should be played realistically. That shit doesn't work. At all. The software doesn't recognize realistic motions nearly as well as it does acute wrist flicks. I don't understand how that's "immersive". In fact, I feel less immersed when a realistic motion doesn't register properly, unintentionally resulting in a lob, when specific types of punches aren't detected in boxing, etc, than I do when button presses function flawlessly. And it's not as if Wii developers have used motion control to add depth to games. They simply replace button presses with waggle, in most cases.

Now that I've gotten that off my chest, I'll go cry a little, and shank myself.

Spoiler

not really

81% of cube was multiplatform crap with good titles amongst the multiplatform. A bulk of my cube collection was exclusive outside of a few mp titles I stuck the what was good or came on it first.

Is Wii worse than cube hell not it's just diverse and different. Cube will never have the casual or good stuff Wii does, funny part is I like GC/PS2 ports now like godfather, ssx, RE4, and okami. When this system hit's stride cube will be shit in comparison. The quirky titles too own what cube had to offer. 2 years in it's not what cube was doing but cube largely died within 3 years of existence so that doesn't really say much to put it's library on pedestal when it was crap after it's 3rd year. MK is better on Wii, SMG, and Mp3, and the new zelda I know will fucking rock.

As for the control of Wii that's largely situational to the person's environment. When the wii is setup the motion controls work and nintendo never said it was real it said it was realistic and can take in to account your motions. That's the problem with people who hate on the waggle they keep assuming it 1:1 to which when done right gimps the whole setup. You play any of the wii sports games right, though I hate baseball the motion controls are solid as hell especially tennis once you get use to how the force proper timing in order to hit the ball a certain way. Motion is so much better than a button despite the fact it requires more effort and mastering to get what you want out of it certainly beats a button that gives you the same exact result once you learn the range and nuance. The motion in and of itself ensure a certain level of realistic randomness that life in of itself has. Only thing I'm not pleased on is racers that are more sim based, but not like pad do any better since I'm wheel whore and neither live up to the true experience.

 

[Deku]

I cringe every time I see innovation used by people who defend the Wii.

Yes, its new and innovative, but it's not the innovation that created this market they have. The Wii or the DS' success should not be misrepresented as some sort of triumph of innovation over technology and its what gets most people into these long drawn out debates here about what innovation really means because the technophiles have their own lexicon on innovation.

The Wii/DS are just much better total products (price, portability for DS, size, functionality, lifestyle fit) than the competition. And they were launched and marketed brilliantly.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Seriously, at the very least, it's insane to say that Wii Sports should be played realistically. That shit doesn't work. At all. The software doesn't recognize realistic motions nearly as well as it does acute wrist flicks. I don't understand how that's "immersive". In fact, I feel less immersed when a realistic motion doesn't register properly, unintentionally resulting in a lob, when specific types of punches aren't detected in boxing, etc, than I do when button presses function flawlessly.

Seriously. Why is Wii Sports so popular? The controls don't even function well...

If the overly simplified mess that is Wii Sports is the epitome of video games rather than games that actually have a bit of depth and controls that work consistently, then I don't like video games.

I can criticize Wii Sports however I see fit. Personally, I would liken Wii Sports to romantic comedies or banal action movies. They might bring in a lot of cash, they might be necessary in order for studios to stay afloat, but they still won't win much praise because they don't succeed by being well acted, well directed, etc. Instead, they succeed by pandering to the lowest common denominator.

By lowest common denominator, I'm referring to those people who are incapable of playing video games unless they are dumbed down to Wii Sports "waggle at the right time to win" levels.

But, in all seriousness, what exactly are you saying? Do you mean to imply that shallow abominations with useless, poorly executed motion controls that do nothing to improve game play, like Wii Sports, will entirely supplant "geeky" games, which actually dare to have a semblance of depth and an intricate graphical presentation?

As long as it continues to pander to people who are incapable of remembering simple button configurations, and has awkward, unrealistic, and inaccurate motion controls like Wii Sports, then yes.

?
Sitting down is the optimal way to play most of the minigames in Wii Sports. Realistic movements aren't recognized accurately. Wrist flicks are really the only option.

I seem to remember overshooting by a mile almost all the time in golf unless I used minute movements... and I seem to remember the Mii's "arms" not tracking well with my remote hand while playing bowling, especially if I moved my arm in a realistic way. Then again, Wii Sports is never used at my house.

Maybe he meant that, like in Wii Sports, moderate movements are more efficacious toward in game success in Wii Fit than than labored, broad movements, which might discourage players from using Wii Fit to exercise.

What about Wii Sports is a new concept? It's a sports game with plain graphics and awkward, inaccurate controls, that was simplified to appeal to the masses...

And now I find the Wii's game library pitiful in comparison to the 360's, which has made me wonder why so many gaffers are happy about Wii's success, considering that Wii Sports, a horrible, shallow abortion of a sports game, seems to be the main factor behind it.