Official bitching about Hudson abandoning VC support. [VC/WiiWare = lost cause]
- Thread starter Kobun Heat
- Start date
Thankfully this is Etrian Odyssey II week and all I have to do is wait for my copy to arrive so I can get some gaming on this week. But putting that aside for now... You know, what I really don't get about VC treatment lately is this 2-1 split in favor of WiiWare. As much as I want them to hurry up and release Gyrostarr, a 2-1 split in favor of VC would make much more sense to me (if not 2-2 or better, which would obviously be preferred), and here's why:
-Virtual Console theoretically has a larger number of games to draw from, because they've already been made. This means that releasing as many games as possible will require a higher number of releases per week on average for VC than for WiiWare.
-Two-game weeks for WiiWare may be unsustainable since original games can't be produced freely and easily. Any proponent of WiiWare having consistent weekly releases for its duration would have to acknowledge that it's possible for Nintendo to burn through its titles like this, which may lead to some week or other with zero WiiWare releases and a lot of people complaining. Personally, I won't be one of them when such a time comes (because, unlike VC, there's not an enormous well of thousands of titles to draw from), but I could see it happening.
-There are more good unreleased VC-eligible games than there are good unreleased WiiWare games currently in production.
-If (wild, wild if) some of those I've argued with in here before are correct that releasing more games per week on a given service reduces the sales of each game individually to a degree that anyone should be concerned about, then I can only imagine that would have a stronger negative impact on original games than on classic games, which people may be buying due to fond memories or positive word-of-mouth established over a period of years or decades. The quality of any one classic title is a known entity (even if not widely-known, e.g. DoReMi Fantasy), so people frequently have little information to go by about a WiiWare game's quality--at least initially, as in immediately after release. They may know mechanics or general concept, but hands-on impressions will be much harder to come across and much fewer in number, comparatively.
-Except for TGCD, Neo Geo, and N64, VC games take up much less space. And my fridge is brimming over. D:
-Virtual Console theoretically has a larger number of games to draw from, because they've already been made. This means that releasing as many games as possible will require a higher number of releases per week on average for VC than for WiiWare.
-Two-game weeks for WiiWare may be unsustainable since original games can't be produced freely and easily. Any proponent of WiiWare having consistent weekly releases for its duration would have to acknowledge that it's possible for Nintendo to burn through its titles like this, which may lead to some week or other with zero WiiWare releases and a lot of people complaining. Personally, I won't be one of them when such a time comes (because, unlike VC, there's not an enormous well of thousands of titles to draw from), but I could see it happening.
-There are more good unreleased VC-eligible games than there are good unreleased WiiWare games currently in production.
-If (wild, wild if) some of those I've argued with in here before are correct that releasing more games per week on a given service reduces the sales of each game individually to a degree that anyone should be concerned about, then I can only imagine that would have a stronger negative impact on original games than on classic games, which people may be buying due to fond memories or positive word-of-mouth established over a period of years or decades. The quality of any one classic title is a known entity (even if not widely-known, e.g. DoReMi Fantasy), so people frequently have little information to go by about a WiiWare game's quality--at least initially, as in immediately after release. They may know mechanics or general concept, but hands-on impressions will be much harder to come across and much fewer in number, comparatively.
-Except for TGCD, Neo Geo, and N64, VC games take up much less space. And my fridge is brimming over. D:
For Actionvania I'm almost never in the mood, but releasing any two of those games would be a great step for VC nonetheless, in about as close a sense to "objectively" as one can get. I'd definitely pick up Castlevania III, at least.Iam Canadian said:
That's exactly why they're not around.Scrubking said:
Well, we're talking about original games here. It's not like developers can produce them on a whim, so I'm expecting many weeks with only one WiiWare game--or even none.AugustDivision said:
Seeing the examples of Dragon Slayer, Shining Force II, and Ys Book I & II, among others that were rated in like mid-2007...RedBoot said:
crowphoenix
Banned
truendo said:
Ah ha! So that explains where the boundless optimism in the face of soul crushing reality came from.:lol
Lets see, what games am I waiting on...
Shinning Force 2
Earthbound
Zombies Ate my Neighbors
Flashback
E.V.O
Illusion of Time
Sonic 3 and Knuckles
Shatterhand
Phantasy Star 4
Desert/Jungle/Urban Strike
Secret of Mana/Evermore
Chrono Trigger
the Genesis version of Aladdin (a man can dream! And add the other Disney platformers of NES/SNES/GEN era)
TMNT Hyperstone Heist
Mercs
Herzog Zwei
Greendog
Earthworm Jim 1 and 2
Castlevania Bloodlines
Kirby Super Star
Super Punch Out
Yoshi's Island
I'll stop there. I'm sure there are other obscure games I'll want to buy.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
Jiggy37 said:
I'm not the biggest fan of the action-based Castlevania games either, but Castlevania III is probably the best of its kind. Dracula X: The Rondo of Blood is, in my opinion, frankly overrated, but I'll buy it anyway because it's certainly not bad, and Konami imports are one of those things I want to support. Bloodlines is suprisingly good as well; Eric Lecarde is a really cool addition, and the game features the first Yamane Castlevania soundtrack, which in itself is almost worth the 800 points.
Luigison said:
Great game. Unfortunately, the chances of it actually coming out are virtually nil.
I'd probably buy Rondo of Blood just for Maria. And so that I could play it without that insane PSP ghosting.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302158crowphoenix said:
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
Jiggy37 said:
AKA easy mode.
Jiggy37 said:And so that I could play it without that insane PSP ghosting.
No arguments there. The ghosting gave me migraines on the PSP.
crowphoenix
Banned
Jiggy37 said:
That was of those GAF threads that scared me. There was no way my frazzled mind could come up with a complete list of games I want. Hell, I can barely even remember all the old games I used to play.
Such as, I just remembered Zero Tolerance for the Gen. That's another game that needs to be added to my list.
Luigison said:
Duck Tales should be a given on all lists. Easily the game I beat the most as a child.
Iam Canadian said:I'm not the biggest fan of the action-based Castlevania games either, but Castlevania III is probably the best of its kind. Dracula X: The Rondo of Blood is, in my opinion, frankly overrated, but I'll buy it anyway because it's certainly not bad, and Konami imports are one of those things I want to support. Bloodlines is suprisingly good as well; Eric Lecarde is a really cool addition, and the game features the first Yamane Castlevania soundtrack, which in itself is almost worth the 800 points.
I agree that Rondo of Blood is over rated. I imagine that's due to Richter's place in Symphony of the Night and the fact that the version with the neat anime cinematics was never released stateside and instead we received, what I've heard described as, a gimped version.
Fess
Member
Fighting Stick WiiBrakara said:
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-113-49-en-70-2tmv.html
Neo Geo Stick 2
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-113-49-en-70-2k7a.html
I've got both and personally I think the Neogeo stick is better, but I guess the Hori stick is better if you're into fighting games because of the button layout.
EphemeralDream
Member
I missed a few weeks so for anyone who didn't feel like looking themselves, the Retro Roundup! Also starting with 6/2, Jeremy Parish has handed the RR over to Andy Keener:
Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa: Worth It
City Connection: Not Worth It
Dig Dug: Not Worth It
Metal Slug: Not Worth It (MSA is the better value acc. to the author)
SkyKid: Worth It
Retro Roundup 6/2
Fantasy Zone: Worth It
Mega Turrican: Worth It
Phantasy Star III: Not Worth It
River City Ransom: Worth It
Ninja Combat: Not Worth It
Retro Roundup 6/9
Bio Miracle Bokutte Upa: Worth It
City Connection: Not Worth It
Dig Dug: Not Worth It
Metal Slug: Not Worth It (MSA is the better value acc. to the author)
SkyKid: Worth It
Retro Roundup 6/2
Fantasy Zone: Worth It
Mega Turrican: Worth It
Phantasy Star III: Not Worth It
River City Ransom: Worth It
Ninja Combat: Not Worth It
I'd probably re-buy Rondo just because my Turbo Duo keeps deleting all my save games 
Rondo I would say is fantastic and the best retro-vania... excellent level design, excellent setpieces, sweet music... and I like the multiple routes through the stages. Plus, it's not as frustrating as CV1 or 3 are.
I'm still waiting for my Majora's Mask, Dragon Slayer, and Shining Force II
Rondo I would say is fantastic and the best retro-vania... excellent level design, excellent setpieces, sweet music... and I like the multiple routes through the stages. Plus, it's not as frustrating as CV1 or 3 are.I'm still waiting for my Majora's Mask, Dragon Slayer, and Shining Force II
Princess Skittles
Prince's's 'Skittle's
What's with all the Rondo talk? Has it actually been rumored?
cartman414
Member
djtiesto said:I'd probably re-buy Rondo just because my Turbo Duo keeps deleting all my save games
I heart Rondo as well. CV1 is indeed as ruthless as you say, but 3 wasn't too bad in that regard, at least in terms of the Japanese release. I'd love to see that version come over.
crowphoenix said:
I disagree here big time. I loved Rondo simply because it offered quite possibly the best overall CV experience anywhere. Barring Super CV4 perhaps, Symphony was always the most overrated one IMO, and I played RoB a mere year after.
crowphoenix
Banned
cartman414 said:
Well, I was a Gen man. Didn't have an SNES, so going back to Rondo is really going back. I went 1, 2, SOTN. But, I definitely plan on picking it up when it comes out, just because it's Castlevania.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
pakkit said:
Well, they're both great games, but I do prefer Gunstar Heroes. However, I think the game is getting a thumbs down because you can get the entire franchise on one disc for thirty dollars, not because the game is of low quality.
cartman414
Member
Cyan said:
I will agree that stage 7 is insane. The rest of the game tends to be more reasonable, at least for certain if you play the Japanese release.
Using that logic though, no Sonic, MegaMan, Phantasy Star, Monster World, NES/N64 Zelda, etc, games should be "worth it" it either. It's just dumb logic, nevermind that the VC version of MS1 is objectively superior to the butchered Anthology release.Iam Canadian said:
Sorry, Jeremy flat out fails this one.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
ggnoobIGN said:
Excellent, can't wait for that one.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
That's exactly why I haven't bought any Sonic, Mega Man, Phantasy Star, Zelda, etc. games on the VC. And it's why I probably never will. Pretty sound logic, if you ask me. (EDIT: I think I misread. You appear to be calling Jeremy a hypocrite. I guess that's warranted.)jarrod said:
I'm always irked whenever under-the-radar niche/import games get panned while everyone on the Internet whines about how they're unable to rebuy games they've already played to death on other platforms.
I completely agree. I mean sure, Earthbound, Majora's Mask and SMRPG are great games, but there's a lot more to the VC then that.
So many people are ignoring quality Genesis, TG16, Neo-Geo, and numerous lesser known, but still very worthwhile, games just because they may not be familiar to them or on Nintendo consoles.
EphemeralDream
Member
As I mentioned in my RR post, Jeremy is no longer doing the Retro Roundup. A new 1up staff member has taken over the duty, so looks like we'll need to adjust to the new guy's taste. Acc. to his post, Jeremy oversees all the Worth its/Not Worth its, but probably would only ask for a change in the case of a completely offpoint judgement.jarrod said:
ToastyFrog
Inexplicable Treasure Hate
Right. I don't want to second-guess Andy's selections. My job now is just to make sure his facts are straight, his ratings aren't completely insane and make sure everything's uploaded properly.EphemeralDream said:
But I actually do think that with so many games available for the service at this point, it behooves us to be more selective about what we recommend. In the case of long-running series compiled in their entirety elsewhere, we'll likely end up giving one or two entries a recommendation (say, Metal Slug X, Mega Man 2 and 3, Phantasy Star IV, Samurai Shodown II, etc.) while recommending the compilations for the rest. It seems a reasonable compromise that will give newcomers a taste of the best games while being sensitive in mind cost and storage space. Besides, a thumbs-down doesn't mean "No one should buy this game." These ratings aren't for series fanatics; they're for people who may not know the games in question very well. So I think cost-effective alternatives are perfectly valid recommendations.
EphemeralDream
Member
Makes a lot of sense. One of the benefits of having say all the MM games up on the service is the "touch of a finger" perk where they're instantly accessible. And while that may benefit titles like MM 2, 3, or X which have a lot of replayability, who really cares to have MM 6 at the touch of a finger aside from collection whores. And pristine emulation is always a plus, but again if the content isn't so spectacular, does it quite matter the quality of the delivery?ToastyFrog said:
I absolutely love the idea of VC being a massive archive of old games. It's been very difficult to be enamored with the service though recently with the snail's pace it now proceeds at and it is more draining than ever to wait for the quality sequels to show up when it could seemingly take months. As a result this is actually placing more value on collections with questionable quality to feed that longing. Really Nintendo, let's hurry this thing up.
I don't know, we might get a better idea of things next week. The impression I get is that the alternation is actually to mask low *WiiWare* release rates; last week's VC dump, at least, was reasonably consistent with that of two weeks joined together, whereas this week's Wiiware was one week's worth of contentCapndrake said:
Baron
Member
Anyone know any fixes for the borked Neo Geo VC video output on an HDTV?
EDIT:
I did a little searching and found this bit at Nintendo's home page. It says for difficulty displaying certain Virtual Console resolutions on HDTVs you can input a button combination code and force it to display in 480p instead of the 240p the NG games output in. Tried it, and it works beautifully.
EDIT:
I did a little searching and found this bit at Nintendo's home page. It says for difficulty displaying certain Virtual Console resolutions on HDTVs you can input a button combination code and force it to display in 480p instead of the 240p the NG games output in. Tried it, and it works beautifully.
Next week in Japan: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/vc/vc_smr/index.html
They also get:
-Phantasy Star IV (MD)
-Paranoia (Psychosis, PCE)
-Ninja Commando (NG)
They also get:
-Phantasy Star IV (MD)
-Paranoia (Psychosis, PCE)
-Ninja Commando (NG)
The Lamonster
Member
I need Super Mario RPG to come out in North America soon. Real soon. Thanks.
ToastyFrog said:
I understand the logic behind it, but I think bringing in these sorts of "value judgements" opens the door to lots of conflicting comparisons and unfair standards. Maybe MS1 might be more a unique case as MSA is already readily and easily available on the same platform (versus say the importing and console trickery needed for the Sega Ages line, growing scarcity of GCN Sonic//MM/Zelda collections or actually just buying the old games and systems directly), but it's still having you hold MS1 to a standard nearly every other VC release doesn't have to bear.EphemeralDream said:
I'd also argue MS1 is pretty replayable and of the highest quality for a genre entry though, and given all the issues with the troubled Anthology release, it's definitely worth having MS1 in perfect form and playable with a decent controller for just $9. Especially in light of arguably inferior 16bit run'n guns getting the nod on VC for just $1 less. It's a great game, at a great price, in the best form you can get it... flatly, if that doesn't deserve a "thumbs up", then what does?
SonicMegaDrive
Member
You know, just when I think I'm done with the Virtual Console, and caring about it's updates...
I take a random glance at what the other regions are getting....and the knife just twists a little bit more.
BAH, NINTENDO!!!
I take a random glance at what the other regions are getting....and the knife just twists a little bit more.
BAH, NINTENDO!!!
JohnTinker
Limbaugh Parrot
What are we supposed to do to get a week like this in NA?Capndrake said:
Buy more Brain Training?
Uh every single one of those games will make it to the US in under a month I'd imagine (we've had Psychosis for a number of months already). Who cares if they come the same week? It's not like we're gonna get shafted (*Insert conspiracy theorists*). Also, keep in mind Japan has no Wiiware this week and the US already has more Wiiware titles than they do.
Conrad Link
Member
Relax, a Japanese release of a top sought after Nintendo game means Mario RPG will be out in English soon. 
Then we can all enjoy it for a week and go back to bitching about there being no games again soon enough.
I think at this point only Mother could break the JPN > ENG Nintendo game VC releases.
Right?
Then we can all enjoy it for a week and go back to bitching about there being no games again soon enough.
I think at this point only Mother could break the JPN > ENG Nintendo game VC releases.
Right?