Official Final Fantasy XII (JPN) Thread (read RULES in the first post)
- Thread starter duckroll
- Start date
Alright, I'm on floor 80 of that dungeon, and I don't feel like making my tender flesh available as undead dinner and entertainment anymore tonight. Here's what's likely my final speculation before beating the game tomorrow:
a) I'm, well, likely to beat the game tomorrow. I expect a summon battle or two and a lot of exposition when I get to the end of the dungeon I'm in, followed by the final dungeon---I'd almost be inclined to believe I'm in it, but the plot and mechanics haven't quite hit final pitch.
b) I expect to be either -happy- or -satisfied- with the ending, but not both.
a) I'm, well, likely to beat the game tomorrow. I expect a summon battle or two and a lot of exposition when I get to the end of the dungeon I'm in, followed by the final dungeon---I'd almost be inclined to believe I'm in it, but the plot and mechanics haven't quite hit final pitch.
b) I expect to be either -happy- or -satisfied- with the ending, but not both.
To begin with, where I'm at is about the #1 convenient point for Matsuno to have decided that things like "gnawing the rug" and "writing plot notes, in that pseudo-Greek script common to Ivalice stuff, using one's own blood" were effective game design practices. If -anyone- can wrap things up in the next sitting, this team has as good odds as any, but still...
Even beyond that, I can't see any particularly great scenarios that could come out of the ending. FF12 is in ancient, ancient Ivalice history, relative to the other stuff, it seems, and I can't help but think that Ashe keeps up her revenge-focused icequeen angle and ends up handing control of history back to those demigods, and -that's- why even in FFT era the closest we get to the level of tech Archedeas has is a few buried airships.
Other than that, there's the just-depressing option of your actions having little to no impact on history, or even worse a deus-ex-machina happy end.
I am honestly curious who the final boss is, though. My money's on Cid's pet demigod, but...
All in all, I really want to see how this ends, even though I think the last few hours will be hard-pressed to not be its weakest. Can't wait to see what gets done in the optional endgame content and FFXII-I, too, which should hopefully majorly help with the fleshing-out it'd take something surpassing genius not to need.
Even beyond that, I can't see any particularly great scenarios that could come out of the ending. FF12 is in ancient, ancient Ivalice history, relative to the other stuff, it seems, and I can't help but think that Ashe keeps up her revenge-focused icequeen angle and ends up handing control of history back to those demigods, and -that's- why even in FFT era the closest we get to the level of tech Archedeas has is a few buried airships.
Other than that, there's the just-depressing option of your actions having little to no impact on history, or even worse a deus-ex-machina happy end.
I am honestly curious who the final boss is, though. My money's on Cid's pet demigod, but...
All in all, I really want to see how this ends, even though I think the last few hours will be hard-pressed to not be its weakest. Can't wait to see what gets done in the optional endgame content and FFXII-I, too, which should hopefully majorly help with the fleshing-out it'd take something surpassing genius not to need.
Cut a long story short. To me, not much emotional attachment in this one. I play it like a usual game for all fun and interesting battles. It is not quite like the RPG that I played. I have a resident evil 4 feel on this one, i.e. don't care much about story (although I do know what's going on) and just play it.
Red Scarlet
Member
I have some similar thoughts as to what you spoiler tagged up there for the last part, but a couple other ones/different reasons. Maybe I will post them up tomorrow. I'll check the PM though, thanks Beb.
Mandoric (read after you beat the game):
Mandoric (read after you beat the game):
What optional end-game stuff? I was not given the New Game+ option.
Damn it, Bebpo,
you're confirming my fears about this game. It's basically highlighting the fundamental problems with the FF series, thanks to the change in battle system, but it should have fixed them at the same time as exposing them. I'm nowhere near the end, I guess, but I already feel burnt out on the huge outside areas. I'll reappraise the situation when I finish it, of course, but right now, I am worried since people are saying they're not attached to the story.
The entire scope of it based on people's end game save file is a bit too daunting for me.. I mean.. I'm the type of gamer who will not play an RPG that is over 45+ hours long unless the battle system doesn't shit me up the wall. The only RPG that did get me over that was Tales of Symphonia, think I logged up 52 hours I think and I felt like an empty soul a bit after that.
I think maybe that's also why I haven't really got deep into DQVIII just based on purely that it might be longer than what I'd "like" I suppose. Question though: how do you guys seriously log that many hours into a game and not feel like ripping your skin off :lol There's too much shit to do in my life that I can't priortize 5 hours or more into a game anymore per day. I have a hard enough time with 2 hours.
I think maybe that's also why I haven't really got deep into DQVIII just based on purely that it might be longer than what I'd "like" I suppose. Question though: how do you guys seriously log that many hours into a game and not feel like ripping your skin off :lol There's too much shit to do in my life that I can't priortize 5 hours or more into a game anymore per day. I have a hard enough time with 2 hours.
Yeah, it's long. One thing is clear... this game is going to scare some casuals away from the FF series. Boss fights are NOT easy, and extra levelling is required even if you've explored 100% of the map area. And that's not even the optional stuff! FFXIII might well have to go back to basics to get some of the fanbase back. It's a tricky call for now.
Jonnyram said:
I think you're just getting burned out on the exploring everything aspect because the maps are so big and dungeons so long. I got burned out on that but then I slept for like 14 hours one night and it was fun again the next day 
I honestly really enjoy the game despite any shortcomings and I mean I have NEVER EVER put over ~80 hours into an rpg (DQVIII was like 82, Abyss was around 78 and the fact that I put 93 in FFXII and I'm still interested in finishing up the mobs/summons which will knock me to like 110+ says a lot about how much I do like the game even if I have issues with certain things.
I honestly really enjoy the game despite any shortcomings and I mean I have NEVER EVER put over ~80 hours into an rpg (DQVIII was like 82, Abyss was around 78 and the fact that I put 93 in FFXII and I'm still interested in finishing up the mobs/summons which will knock me to like 110+ says a lot about how much I do like the game even if I have issues with certain things.Jonnyram said:
Though the game is jokingly easy if you just do all the mobs
When I finally went back and plowed through the story I was killing everything in 1 hit and the final boss did like 1000hp damage on the final attacks when my characters had 8000hp :lol I did find the game reasonably hard until
past the 2nd summon
Jonnyram said:
I'm almost certain it will - I think FFXII
is the Dragon Quarter of the series
But I'm glad it was made the way it was, flaws and all.
D2M15 said:
I refuse to believe any of the scripting/gameplay problems were Matsuno's fault. I seriously think that after he left they re-wrote his script and hired their own artists for some of the final designs (assuming Matsuno+Yoshida+Sakimoto left together) and of course patched up the gameplay to speed without thinking about changing the basic formula around too much. I really really think the game is not what Matsuno wrote and that he would be really pissed if it isn't and would be grounds enough for him to go work elsewhere and compete against Square (like Mistwalker or something). I think the first 50% of the game is Matsuno's script and once it kinda opens up it starts moving away until it eventually becomes some other guys script and not his.
PS. HE-MAN >_<
PS. HE-MAN >_<
I stand by my earlier post that Matsuno bit off way more than he could chew, and the overextended development was used to pad it out when they should have been tightening it up. Of course, him leaving the production can hardly have helped.
FWIW, I've heard that several FFXII team members moved on to Feel+ (though not to work on Lost Odyssey), but not that Matsuno's one of them.
FWIW, I've heard that several FFXII team members moved on to Feel+ (though not to work on Lost Odyssey), but not that Matsuno's one of them.
edit:
Red Scarlet said:
It was a joke! Much like my life.
Man, this tower dungeon is REALLY FUCKING LONG! I finally got to
I don't think people are BORED by this game, rather it's a SERIOUS case of burn-out. The game is just huge everywhere and unless you take breaks, it's going to numb your senses.
floor fucking 83 only to use the WRONG teleporter and end up back on floor 81, then I fucked up and picked the black teleporter and ended up on floor 79 which had the MAP but I couldn't open the doors and the goddamn undead kept respawning until I died! WTF!
I don't think people are BORED by this game, rather it's a SERIOUS case of burn-out. The game is just huge everywhere and unless you take breaks, it's going to numb your senses.
charlequin
Banned
Man, every Square RPG thread now is like forty pages of fap followed by the post-game "oh it wasn't that great."
You guys are funny. :lol
Is this like a KH2 thing where the end of the game sucks or just being burned out by playing for 100+ hours or what? I feel like a lot of potential complaints here ("the game doesn't improve enough on Final Fantasy norms", "there aren't enough different sidequests," "the gameplay is too automatic") would completely fail to bother me.
I mean, if the gambit system works the way it's been described, and the mob sidequests are as in-depth and different, and there are as many secret summons and areas, and even if the plot is like 50% Matsuno goodness and 50% totally typical FF plot... I have trouble seeing how that could be anything but the best Sony Final Fantasy by a huge wide margin.
You guys are funny. :lol
Is this like a KH2 thing where the end of the game sucks or just being burned out by playing for 100+ hours or what? I feel like a lot of potential complaints here ("the game doesn't improve enough on Final Fantasy norms", "there aren't enough different sidequests," "the gameplay is too automatic") would completely fail to bother me.
I mean, if the gambit system works the way it's been described, and the mob sidequests are as in-depth and different, and there are as many secret summons and areas, and even if the plot is like 50% Matsuno goodness and 50% totally typical FF plot... I have trouble seeing how that could be anything but the best Sony Final Fantasy by a huge wide margin.
duckroll said:
did you have to WALK up all 83 floors?Anyway, as for myself,
I just finished the Stillshrine of Miriam, came back to Bur-Omisace and kicked Bergan's ass. Only trouble now is that I've run out of money because I had to spend a bunch of it on hi-potions and Phoenix Downs before the boss fights - Curada takes too much MP and Cure is too sucky in terms of the amount it heals at this level. Also a few of my characters are still a bit underlevelled, so I could do with some tips on places to go to get XP and/or stuff that sells for lots of gil.
The following contains my overall impressions of the game after finishing it, if you don't want to know what other people think of the game you don't have to read it. No spoiler tags though, because there are no spoilers.
FFXII was one hellavu experience. I finally completed the game at about 65 hours today. How do I feel about the game now that I've beat it? In my opinion I have not beat it. The game is really about much more than just the story parts of the game, which if taken together makes for one of the shortest "stories" in recent FF memory. It isn't exactly the most satisfying either. What FFXII excels in is pure gameplay. If you're a fan of MMORPGs, this game will not disappoint. If you're not a fan of MMORPGs, it might take some getting used to but the game is still VERY rewarding. If you've been a fan of the more open-ended FFs like FFV or FFIX where the optional things are just overwhelming and you can build your characters whatever way you like, or if you like FFs rich in worldview like FFT where there's a history and a backstory for many, many things. This game is definitely for you. If you're hedging all your bets on another unbelievable Matsuno storytelling experience like FFT or Vagrant Story,
I'll be taking a break on FFXII for about a week and probably playing ACE2 and other stuff in my backlog. After that I plan to get back and "beating" the game for real. I'm still short of a few summons and have a looong list of bounties to do. Not to mention none of the legendary weapons and equipment are in my inventory and that's unacceptable. 
FFXII was one hellavu experience. I finally completed the game at about 65 hours today. How do I feel about the game now that I've beat it? In my opinion I have not beat it. The game is really about much more than just the story parts of the game, which if taken together makes for one of the shortest "stories" in recent FF memory. It isn't exactly the most satisfying either. What FFXII excels in is pure gameplay. If you're a fan of MMORPGs, this game will not disappoint. If you're not a fan of MMORPGs, it might take some getting used to but the game is still VERY rewarding. If you've been a fan of the more open-ended FFs like FFV or FFIX where the optional things are just overwhelming and you can build your characters whatever way you like, or if you like FFs rich in worldview like FFT where there's a history and a backstory for many, many things. This game is definitely for you. If you're hedging all your bets on another unbelievable Matsuno storytelling experience like FFT or Vagrant Story,
bail out now.
Come again?duckroll said:
Edit: Oh I think you mean to say "I have not beat it." So the story is short, which is fine, but is it good? I want twists and turns and surprises in a story, so as long as I feel like the story itself is good, its length doesn't matter as much.
Prince of Space
Banned
what
kenta said:
Fixed. Sorry, was tired when I posted it. Haha. There is a hint to the overall quality of the story in the post! :lol
Here are some quotes to sum up how I felt about the game's story overall, hidden meanings included!
"You will say wow."
"Solid.... if not spectacular."
"It is..... beyond my imagination."
"You will see what you see."
Red Scarlet
Member
Danj said:
Anyway, as for myself,I just finished the Stillshrine of Miriam, came back to Bur-Omisace and kicked Bergan's ass. Only trouble now is that I've run out of money because I had to spend a bunch of it on hi-potions and Phoenix Downs before the boss fights - Curada takes too much MP and Cure is too sucky in terms of the amount it heals at this level. Also a few of my characters are still a bit underlevelled, so I could do with some tips on places to go to get XP and/or stuff that sells for lots of gil.
Try Cura instead..Curada didn't seem too useful..too much MP cost and only 1 target.
Try what I found and did in this post.
Peter Moore rocks at quoting FFXII!
Here's my review:
http://www.gamebrink.com/viewitem.php?id=432&review=178
Also since pretty much everyone has finished it besides Danj, Jonnyram, Triodal, Shouta I think it's about time to start a seperate FFXII game/story discussion thread for those of us who've finished it.
Here's my review:
http://www.gamebrink.com/viewitem.php?id=432&review=178
Also since pretty much everyone has finished it besides Danj, Jonnyram, Triodal, Shouta I think it's about time to start a seperate FFXII game/story discussion thread for those of us who've finished it.
Prince of Space
Banned
Nice review, Bebpo.
Really sorry to hear about certain negative aspects; I had a feeling it might happen when matsuno left, but I was hoping it wouldn't.
Really sorry to hear about certain negative aspects; I had a feeling it might happen when matsuno left, but I was hoping it wouldn't.
Red Scarlet
Member
Not everyone that played it said that to begin with. 
chaostrophy
Member
Nice review. I'm sure I'll still love the game because I love games with massive free worlds to explore like DQVIII, Elder Scrolls, Shadow of the Colossus, etc. I've heard the world art is good, does it compare to SotC as far as atmosphere and beauty?
It does suck that it's not a 100% awesome Matsuno storytelling experience though. Vagrant Story was one of the games that brought me back into gaming after being out of the loop for most of the 32-bit generation...I got a PS2 on launch day with no PS2 games, to play it and Xenogears since I never owned a PS1. So the wait has been an entire damn generation. I just hope he finishes something else before 2012.
It does suck that it's not a 100% awesome Matsuno storytelling experience though. Vagrant Story was one of the games that brought me back into gaming after being out of the loop for most of the 32-bit generation...I got a PS2 on launch day with no PS2 games, to play it and Xenogears since I never owned a PS1. So the wait has been an entire damn generation. I just hope he finishes something else before 2012.
chaostrophy said:
Not really comparable to SoTC, but I mean it does look very nice with great art. Looks better than DQVIII's world IMO.
And yeah, most people should still really enjoy the game. In fact, knowing what I know, I'd recommend that everyone playing it finishes up all the side stuff before finally beating the storyline at 100 hours+. That way you get 100 hours of joy before the
inevitable downfall.
chaostrophy said:
And then some. It's an amazingly compelling world with scale and sense that carries a lot of unwritten narrative, and not just because I can imagine Matsuno wandering through Morocco and storing it all up (in the same way I lived in Lea Monde for a few happy years).
Regardless of anyone's switch of emotion - my view of the game after finishing it hasn't changed too much, and I think it's no more hurriedly finished off to meet a deadline than Vagrant Story, though less profoundly so - it's still a tremendous experience.
Bebpo said:
I have literally stopped playing it, but will still boot it up from time to time to find the condition for the last summon, almost all conditions are found, only 1 left (
Zodiac
A recoup of the conditions and 2 new findings
Ways to deal a death blow for 12 out of 13 found, no progress on the last yet.
Just wait for time out : Adramelech, Belias, Chaos, Cuchlain, Famfrit, Mateus, Shumihaza Zeromus
Enemy has <= 1/4 remaining HP : Zalhera
Abnormal status on Summon (tried Don't Move) : Exdeath
Summoner in near death situation (red HP) : Hashmallim
Summoner and Summon both in near death situation (red HP) : Ultima
Just wait for time out : Adramelech, Belias, Chaos, Cuchlain, Famfrit, Mateus, Shumihaza Zeromus
Enemy has <= 1/4 remaining HP : Zalhera
Abnormal status on Summon (tried Don't Move) : Exdeath
Summoner in near death situation (red HP) : Hashmallim
Summoner and Summon both in near death situation (red HP) : Ultima
Video for the last 2 are not up on Blim's site yet.
Jonnyram said:You seem to be insinuating the ending is cack
Is this because it's more traditional FF than Matsuno-style, or did they just screw it up completely? I am worried now.
It's because the game had "problems" during development
Basically as you're playing now, anything you feel is "off" and any worries you have about where the plot is going is probably spot on.
Red Scarlet
Member
For me the game just kind of..ended. Wasn't thinking I was at the last boss..wasn't thinking I was really at the end and then the credits/ending started. It seemed rather..abrupt. But you're probably talking about other things.
Red Blaster
Member
So Ryu Ga Gotoku is still GotG?
Well, I just beat the game. I think I was right in my estimate of being able to see right where the development issues cropped up; and like the others, I'm gonna take a bit of time off for ACE2, maybe Sengoku Musou 2, then come back to do the optional content.
Taken as a whole, the game isn't the absolute perfection that a lack of burnout and looking at only Matsuno's sections made it seem, but it's still quite comparable to, say, a FF5, -plus- all the bits of excellent plot that show up before it goes merely "FF stereotype".
The group sigh of disappointment in here is just because we're playing a 95% game that looked to be a 100% until almost the end.
Taken as a whole, the game isn't the absolute perfection that a lack of burnout and looking at only Matsuno's sections made it seem, but it's still quite comparable to, say, a FF5, -plus- all the bits of excellent plot that show up before it goes merely "FF stereotype".
The group sigh of disappointment in here is just because we're playing a 95% game that looked to be a 100% until almost the end.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
I totally hate crappy endings....oh well at least I will play the game knowing this, so I won't expect to much.
Finally found all the death blow conditions for summons (thanks to the kind people in a Taiwanese forum)
My quest is finally completed.
Just wait for time out : Adramelech, Belias, Chaos, Cuchlain, Famfrit, Mateus, Shumihaza Zeromus
Enemy has <= 1/4 remaining HP : Zalhera (credit to Dragoonend @ gamefaqs)
Abnormal status on Summon (tried Don't Move) : Exdeath (credit to Dragoonend @ gamefaqs)
Summoner in near death situation (red HP) : Hashmallim
Summoner and Summon both in near death situation (red HP) : Ultima (credit to valfarreh @ gamer.com.tw)
Summoner in petrifying condition : Zodiac (credit to ultimate @ gamer.com.tw)
Enemy has <= 1/4 remaining HP : Zalhera (credit to Dragoonend @ gamefaqs)
Abnormal status on Summon (tried Don't Move) : Exdeath (credit to Dragoonend @ gamefaqs)
Summoner in near death situation (red HP) : Hashmallim
Summoner and Summon both in near death situation (red HP) : Ultima (credit to valfarreh @ gamer.com.tw)
Summoner in petrifying condition : Zodiac (credit to ultimate @ gamer.com.tw)
My quest is finally completed.
Red Scarlet
Member
Do they make using them worth it? The ones I had kinda sucked and were pretty poor to actually use in combat.
Red Scarlet said:
Summons and Mist Knacks are incredibly worthless sadly by the end of the game (well Summons were always useless but Mist Knacks were good during the beginning/middle). You'd think it'd be nice to have alternative attack options beyond just attack and magic but the ones they gave us were totally crippled and underpowered :\
I think Summons would have been actually useful if they didn't get rid of your whole party and just used up all your MP as a cost.
Bebpo said:
Thx Bebpo that makes more sense. I guess I'll fiind out for myself though when it finally releases here in America...
It kinda reminds me of the FFX-2 ending. The cutscenes during the ending were done in realtime but the realtime version that looked fugly. There's realtime nice in FFX-2 and realtime fugly and that was realtime fugly.