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Official Fitness Thread of Whipping Your Butt into Shape

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Slo

Member
lawblob said:
Generally, to get the 'cut' look, you want to do high-rep weightlifting exercises. So on the bench press, bicep curls, etc., only lift 40% (rough guess) of your max, but do as many reps as you can. Plus you wan to run, since losing body fat will make your muscles look more defined.

Mostly when it comes to lifting weights, though, the main thing is just to be consistent. As long as you have a balanced weightlifting routine, and actually stick with it and push yourself, you will get bigger & more cut. There's not too much mystery, eat healthy and keep going to the gym.

The most 'cut' I have looked is when I used to do my 100-rep bench press routine. I would do 100 reps of 135lbs. (a single 45lb plate on each side). I would do 35 reps, then 25, then 10, 10, 10, 10. It was a bitch to do, but worked quite well. Nowadays I mostly do the 'vain' thing and go for high-weight, lower rep exercises; which have gotten me bulky, but not as cut as I used to be.

I don't understand this at all. Please define what you mean by "cut." By your use of the word "bulky" (aka building muscle) I think you're trying to say that you want to look very lean but stay kind of scrawny? If that's correct, then what makes you think that doing 2000 reps with pink dumbells is the best way to get lean without building muscle? Seems very inefficient.
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Last time I heard, doing flies doesn't make your chest grow.

If you want a nice chest, do dumbell presses. A lot better for overall growth than bench because it requires your core strength and stabalization. Your chest will get stronger too.
Isn't the main point of flies to get that definition down the middle of your chest between your pecs?

I agree with you about dumbbell presses.
 

pete914

Member
RSTEIN said:
Any caffeine (tea or otherwise) will give you an energy boost before working out. Some supplement guides recommend a hit of caffeine before a workout. This may translate into having the energy to do one or two more reps or whatever.

I'd have to disagree here- caffeine isn't going to make you any stronger. I can see benefits of caffeine on high volume medium-high reps, where disassociation with pain and increased focus is beneficial to working out. However I find caffeine "mini-highs" highly distracting when trying to move heavy weights- it's better to associate or stay with the pain in those cases. Just my $0.02 on caffeine- everyone should try it for themselves to see what works for them.

The whole point of each weight training session is to achieve a pump in your desired region. I'd rather eat some complex carbs or creatine that will feed the muscle, dialate vessels, or increase the surface area of the layer under the skin that the muscle will expand into

The whole point of weight training is a pump? Really? So doing anything work that doesn't result in a pump has no point? What about strength and neurological adaptations from lower rep work?
 
BlueTsunami said:
A interesting observation but going into the gym each week I'm now noticing that multitudes of people stick in the Freeweight room, Machine Weights room and Cardio area but barely touch the Leg Room (Squats, Leg Presses, Leg Extensions etc) and Abdominal area.

It's because the leg room is hard.
 

Barrett2

Member
Mr. Snrub said:
No, no, no, no, no.

Cut is a result of low body fat and only low body fat--your training routine will not determine how cut you are UNLESS it is developed with fat-loss in mind. It looks BETTER when you have significant muscular development.

As I just said a bit ago...lifting heavy weights makes your muscles denser, harder. Powerlifters aren't hulks of fat. Most are DENSE motherfuckers, and have very hard musculature. This mainly has to do with the TYPE of hypertrophy their training induces.

Higher repetitions in weight training tends to lead to more significant sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which contributes to size the most (but not always strength). This rep range is from 10-20, give or take. The fibers responsible for absolute strength respond better to low rep ranges, 1-3 at the extreme. This is why the 5x5 routine is so good for beginners--it develops mass AND strength.


Damn, after your response I started searching on Google and found countless articles confirming what you said. That's funny, I never realized the high-rep / low-weight routine was basically a myth. I guess I never really questioned it, considering I only did the high-rep lifting for a few months, after which I reverted to a more typical high weight / lower rep routine. Maybe I was playing more basketball or tennis during my high-rep lifting time period, and doing more cardio made me lose a little fat, which was making my muscles more defined. It was during the summer that I did the high-rep routine, so maybe I did have less fat.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, though, my general advice stands that there really doesn't seem to be too much mystery with weightlifting. As long as you have a balanced routine, and just keep going, that's half the battle. Plus, avoiding gimmicky lifting exercises. It cracks me up when I see guys at the gym spend all their time doing nonsensical exercises that involve pulling cables in bizarre directions, etc., yet they never do a basic bench press set or a single bicep or tricep exercise.
 
Green Shinobi said:
Isn't the main point of flies to get that definition down the middle of your chest between your pecs?

I agree with you about dumbbell presses.

I'm of the opinion that unless you already have a large chest, you don't need to worry about defining particular areas. Too many new people get stuck on working the upper, lower, middle, outer, inner, blah blah blah of the muscle. You need mass before you should start worrying about shit like that.

The thing I don't like about exercises like flies is that for larger muscle groups, the stimulus is not enough to promote strength adaptation. Always remember that INTENSITY is how close you are to your maximum is terms of percentage. Intensity is NOT how slow a weight moves, how much a muscle burns, or how much of a pump you get.
 
lawblob said:
Damn, after your response I started searching on Google and found countless articles confirming what you said. That's funny, I never realized the high-rep / low-weight routine was basically a myth. I guess I never really questioned it, considering I only did the high-rep lifting for a few months, after which I reverted to a more typical high weight / lower rep routine. Maybe I was playing more basketball or tennis during my high-rep lifting time period, and that's what made me look & feel more cut.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, though, my general advice stands that there really doesn't seem to be too much mystery with weightlifting. As long as you have a balanced routine, and just keep going, that's half the battle. Plus, avoiding gimmicky lifting exercises. It cracks me up when I see guys at the gym spend all their time doing nonsensical exercises that involve pulling cables in bizarre directions, etc., yet they never do a basic bench press set or a single bicep or tricep exercise.

It's no problem, it's a common misconception. Were you a beginner when you were lifting the high rep/low weight way?

Always remember, a beginner will almost always grow on ANY routine. Only the good routines are the ones that don't stall out or fail on you.

Playing sports/cardio most likely had something to dow tih it, as well.

Yes, lifting is VERY simple, frustratingly so when I think about all the damned time I wasted doing shit lifts.
 
Struct09 said:
That, and also you probably hear people commonly say, "I don't need to work on my legs, they're already big and strong"

A friend of mine used to reason, "When my upper body gets bigger, my lower body will grow on its own to compensate!"

Another one is "I jog/run/cycle, my legs get enough of a work out."

Doesn't work that way, dudes.
 
Definition in the middle of your chest? Sure.

Anyway, speaking of supplements, I'm NEVER buying Muscle Milk again. That shit f***ed up my face, as in a huge problem with acne last year. Maybe it was all the sugar in it, but goddamn it got so bad I had to buy medication for my face. I did gain 7 pounds in a week from that shit. :lol
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
pete914 said:
I'd have to disagree here- caffeine isn't going to make you any stronger. I can see benefits of caffeine on high volume medium-high reps, where disassociation with pain and increased focus is beneficial to working out. However I find caffeine "mini-highs" highly distracting when trying to move heavy weights- it's better to associate or stay with the pain in those cases. Just my $0.02 on caffeine- everyone should try it for themselves to see what works for them.

Yes, I think you slightly misunderstood what I said (or I didn't explain myself well). I'm not advocating caffeine or saying it will make you stronger. Caffeine of course won't make you stronger. I don't drink or consume caffeine in any form before or after a workout... I've never found it helpful. However, some supplement guides/other dudes love it pointing to its ability to dull pain + energy boost.

The whole point of weight training is a pump? Really? So doing anything work that doesn't result in a pump has no point? What about strength and neurological adaptations from lower rep work?

Of course those are benefits! However, some guys will say that a bodybuilding session that doesn't end in a pump is pointless. I agree.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
Yes, lifting is VERY simple, frustratingly so when I think about all the damned time I wasted doing shit lifts.
Which lifts do you think are shit, so I can try to avoid them?

RSTEIN said:
Of course those are benefits! However, some guys will say that a bodybuilding session that doesn't end in a pump is pointless. I agree.
What exactly is a pump?
 

pete914

Member
RSTEIN said:
However, some supplement guides/other dudes love it pointing to its ability to dull pain + energy boost.

This is what I was trying to say about association/disassociation- I can see the dulling the pain/boost arguement if you're going to go perform a 25-30 set arm workout. Pain disassociation is good with high volume high/mid rep. But if you're going to go squat/dead/bench heavy in the mid-low volume at mid-low reps, I find that buzz/pain dulling highly distracting.
 
Green Shinobi said:
Which lifts do you think are shit, so I can try to avoid them?

<in gravelly voice> Any exercise that uses a fucking cable or machine is shit.

What exactly is a pump?
Using a muscle to move weight stresses it, which damages the tissue. When you stress a muscle, blood flows into the area. That excess blood causes the area to swell, resulting in a pumped appearance.
 

NME

Member
Green Shinobi said:
What exactly is a pump?

Arnold Schwarzenegger said:
The greatest feeling you can get in a gym or the most satisfying feeling you can get in the gym is the pump. Let's say you train your biceps, blood is rushing in to your muscles and that's what we call the pump. Your muscles get a really tight feeling like your skin is going to explode any minute and its really tight and its like someone is blowing air into your muscle and it just blows up and it feels different, it feels fantastic. It's as satisfying to me as cumming is...
.
 
I was right. Heh.

Yoco. You think squats and deadlifts are shit lifts?

Speaking of legs, anyway of building muscles in your calves? I'm thin, but have a very muscular uppoer body. My thighs are cut but not big. My calves are the same. I just want nice calves. :(
 

NME

Member
yacobod said:
i'd avoid squats, deadlifts

focus on barbell curls inside the power rack, bench press, and tricep kickbacks

How long have you gone to my gym?

Also, he's joking, folks.
 
NME said:
How long have you gone to my gym?

I once got to the gym and found someone curling on my deadlift platform. I made him get off the platform.

I'm not a good person.

Also, I really want to bang the 'hot stupid rookie' cop from Season 5 of The Shield, which I'm just now getting around to watching [bought it in the summer]. Further bulletins as events warrant.

Edit: her name's Paula Garces. Wow. She's, um, very fit.

200211320275122.jpg
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Green Shinobi said:
What exactly is a pump?

You'll know when you've got "the pump". A telltale sign of having the pump is standing in front of a mirrow after a set and having the uncontrolable urge to flex your muscles.
 
Anyone want to help me modify this workout plan I've been doing?

It's set up for four sessions per week. Don't suggest that I alter the number of days, because four is about the max I can do with my schedule.

Days 1 and 3: Chest, shoulders, triceps
Days 2 and 4: Back, biceps, legs, abs

I generally try to do about three different workouts for each muscle group, doing a slightly different routine on each day and also keeping in mind that some workouts overlap between muscle groups.

Chest - bench press or dumbell press, incline press, flies, dips.
Shoulders - military press, upright rows, various machines
Triceps - Arm extensions, dips, various machines
Back - Cable row, Lat pull down, back extension
Biceps - Barbell curls, dumbell curls, also most back exercises work the biceps as well
Legs - Leg press, Leg curl, Leg extension, Calf raises
Abs - Machine crunch, incline crunches, side bends

Anyone have any suggestions for improving that routine? It's served me well so far, but if I can do something better, I'm all for it.
 
Heh. if I was working out on your schedule, I'd do back and chest on Monday, Tuesday do biceps and triceps, Wednesdays do shoulders, Thursdays do legs and abs.

Good superset workout on Mondays and Tuesdays.

Throw in some shrugs on you shoulder days. Traps are a nice muscle that makes you stand out more. Well, I think so.
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Heh. if I was working out on your schedule, I'd do back and chest on Monday, Tuesday do biceps and triceps, Wednesdays do shoulders, Thursdays do legs and abs.
You'd only get each muscle group once a week?

I feel that my body responds better to hitting each muscle group twice a week.
 

Struct09

Member
Green Shinobi said:
Anyone want to help me modify this workout plan I've been doing?

It's set up for four sessions per week. Don't suggest that I alter the number of days, because four is about the max I can do with my schedule.

Days 1 and 3: Chest, shoulders, triceps
Days 2 and 4: Back, biceps, legs, abs

I generally try to do about three different workouts for each muscle group, doing a slightly different routine on each day and also keeping in mind that some workouts overlap between muscle groups.

Chest - bench press or dumbell press, incline press, flies, dips.
Shoulders - military press, upright rows, various machines
Triceps - Arm extensions, dips, various machines
Back - Cable row, Lat pull down, back extension
Biceps - Barbell curls, dumbell curls, also most back exercises work the biceps as well
Legs - Leg press, Leg curl, Leg extension, Calf raises
Abs - Machine crunch, incline crunches, side bends

Anyone have any suggestions for improving that routine? It's served me well so far, but if I can do something better, I'm all for it.

The split isn't bad, but you're missing the big two core exercises (squats and deadlifts). My suggestion would be to swap back extensions with deadlifts and leg press with squats.
 
Green Shinobi said:
You'd only get each muscle group once a week?

I feel that my body responds better to hitting each muscle group twice a week.

Doing the same muscle twice a week? Good luck with aaaaaaaall that. You're not going to stimulate growth by doing that.
 
Green Shinobi said:
Anyone want to help me modify this workout plan I've been doing?

It's set up for four sessions per week. Don't suggest that I alter the number of days, because four is about the max I can do with my schedule.

Days 1 and 3: Chest, shoulders, triceps
Days 2 and 4: Back, biceps, legs, abs

I generally try to do about three different workouts for each muscle group, doing a slightly different routine on each day and also keeping in mind that some workouts overlap between muscle groups.

Chest - bench press or dumbell press, incline press, flies, dips.
Shoulders - military press, upright rows, various machines
Triceps - Arm extensions, dips, various machines
Back - Cable row, Lat pull down, back extension
Biceps - Barbell curls, dumbell curls, also most back exercises work the biceps as well
Legs - Leg press, Leg curl, Leg extension, Calf raises
Abs - Machine crunch, incline crunches, side bends

Anyone have any suggestions for improving that routine? It's served me well so far, but if I can do something better, I'm all for it.

I believe that back and legs are the two biggest, strongest groups. Trying to do them together twice a week is too much. I'd rather do, say:
Days 1 & 3: Upper
Days 2 & 4: Lower

OR

Days 1 & 3: Back, Chest, Arms
Days 2 & 4: Legs, Shoulders

Also, squat.
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Doing the same muscle twice a week? Good luck with aaaaaaaall that. You're not going to stimulate growth by doing that.
So your muscles will grow faster getting worked out once a week instead of twice a week?

Captain Glanton said:
I believe that back and legs are the two biggest, strongest groups. Trying to do them together twice a week is too much. I'd rather do, say:
Days 1 & 3: Upper
Days 2 & 4: Lower

OR

Days 1 & 3: Back, Chest, Arms
Days 2 & 4: Legs, Shoulders

Also, squat.
I like doing shoulders and triceps together because so many exercises hit both muscle groups at the same time. Same with back and biceps. But maybe I'll switch legs to the other day.
 

Mikazuki

Army death height crane group location world
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Doing the same muscle twice a week? Good luck with aaaaaaaall that. You're not going to stimulate growth by doing that.

I'm not sure if that's a joke or not. I do full body workouts every other day. (3.5 times a week). Legs get worked EVERY time and they're getting pretty big and always getting stronger.
 
Mikazuki said:
I'm not sure if that's a joke or not. I do full body workouts every other day. (3.5 times a week). Legs get worked EVERY time and they're getting pretty big and always getting stronger.

Of course they'll get stronger when you do them more than once a week. Bigger? Unless you're doing different exercises on the same body part twice a week, I don't see how how it's possible. I've seen people at my gym doing the same body part twice a week, same exercises and they always complain about not getting bigger.
 
People can debate the number of workouts per bodypart per week forever. I think it all comes down to the amount of stress you put on a bodypart per week--you can do legs a little bit three times a week, or a lot once or twice a week.
 
Captain Glanton said:
People can debate the number of workouts per bodypart per week forever. I think it all comes down to the amount of stress you put on a bodypart per week--you can do legs a little bit three times a week, or a lot once or twice a week.

I can see changing the number of sets, reps, how fast or slow it takes to complete a rep, compound setting, and all that other fun stuff could benefit from working out the same muscle twice a week. Just don't do the same workout, reps, and sets or else your muscle will adapt to the excercise and not grow.
 

GHG

Member
Everyone is different in terms of growth and the number of workouts per muscle group during a week. I personally don't grow if I do a certain group only once a week, it needs to be done twice a week (though If I'm still hurting then I'll skip that session and do a different muscle group).

The key is finding what works for you. If you aren't growing from one a week, switch it up to 2 and vice versa. The general rule tends to be if your muscles are still fatigued (hurting) from the previous session then your body isn't ready to start a new session on the same group.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
I only hit each muscle once a week with the exception of abs. I do abs almost everyday plus I have a more intensive ab day after I do biceps.
 
RSTEIN said:
Of course those are benefits! However, some guys will say that a bodybuilding session that doesn't end in a pump is pointless. I agree.

A pump is not an indication of a good workout or of potential muscle growth. There may be a relation, but it is not a DIRECT relation.

Green Shinobi said:
Which lifts do you think are shit, so I can try to avoid them?

I'd echo what Glanton said. Basically, anything a machine can do, free weights can do better by their very nature. I'm also not too partial to isolation exercises that, by their nature, don't allow a lot of weight to be used (triceps kickbacks...ugh).

Jason's Ultimatum said:
Doing the same muscle twice a week? Good luck with aaaaaaaall that. You're not going to stimulate growth by doing that.

I've been squatting, pressing, and pulling three days a week for the past, oh, five months. I've gained 20 pounds in that time, with very little of it being body fat.

Jason's Ultimatum said:
Of course they'll get stronger when you do them more than once a week. Bigger? Unless you're doing different exercises on the same body part twice a week, I don't see how how it's possible. I've seen people at my gym doing the same body part twice a week, same exercises and they always complain about not getting bigger.

This doesn't really make any sense. Why would different exercises be necessary for muscle growth? Intelligent manipulation of sets, reps, intensity, and rest is much more likely to make a difference.

Sigh...guess I'm going to have to post this every couple pages:

First of all - soreness has no correlation to the effectiveness of a workout. It is generally a product of low frequency and high volume training. Being sore is neither good nor bad - although it can impede another workout which is generally bad. Phenomenal gains have been made on programs where athletes almost never get sore. This is accepted as fact by every researcher and strength coach in the world - DOMS has no correlation to either a good or bad workout.

As for recovery - do you really think muscles recover in a few days? Maybe a week right? Nope, look up complete tissue remodelming, it can take well over a month from a single bout of weight training if I remember correctly but regardless it is far longer than any split in use. Bottom line you are almost always training in some type of recovery deficit.

Where did the 1x per week come from? It came about because BBers started talking about overtraining back in the late 1980's (at the time just previous to this the common workout in the muscle mags was 3 on 1 off and I remember a fair amount of AM/PM days too). A few guys began to notice that if they took time off they came back stronger. They then thought that this was because their workouts weren't optimally spaced and timed. This is the essense of single factor theory or Supercompensation where you go in the gym and work ultra hard pushing your muscles to the point of full exertion (welcome to the training to failure school). Then you retreat quietly and heal up slightly stronger. Just after you've gotten your growth response but before you begin to detrain and lose it you hit that muscle again and do the same thing. The idea is that you can link up a series of these and grow in a linear pattern.

Pretty ing cool eh? Too bad it's wrong. First, there's no scientific backing. Arthur Jones is partially responsible for this and he's long since recanted his short, intense, and infrequent methodology a la Mentzer's Heavy Duty. I will say that this program does work for beginners but for an experienced lifter it is drastically suboptimal. Oh yeah - if you take a ty stimulus and magnify the response with enough drugs you can still make progress but for a given individual a supperior stimulus would allow for more gains at an individual's given dosage or equal gains for that person at a lower dosage level.

So where does that leave us? Well luckily people figured this stuff out a couple decades ago. There's a fatigue factor that gets built into this stuff and managing this fatique is important (both central nervous system and at the muscular level). You see, you can make gains and train without being fully recovered, it's actually better (think back to the people taking some time off and noticing they came back stronger - we'll revisit this in a moment). Rather than thinking about a single workout as a stimulus, consider a block of training - let's say 2-4 weeks. The fatigue is actually a recovery deficit that accrues during stimulative training. Unfortunately, a deficit means that it can't continue forever because you are running your body into the ground - but wait! This is actually fortunate.

You see, the idea that an experienced lifter can go into the gym and train once and then have his body respond with increased musculature on a consistent basis is rediculous. The body is first and foremost a survival machine. Muscle is calorically expensive and it's the last thing the body wants to add (people who had this genetic makeup died in famines very quickly and aren't around to reproduce). So a single session for an experienced lifter won't convince the body to pack on more muscle, and definitely not a short and infrequent stimulus because the body isn't convinced there is need. Bring in the fatigue accrual - in a training block of coninuously increasing fatigue the body gets a different message. The message is that there is a frequent, sustained, and increasing need for adaptation and that the body is falling behind and will soon break down under the strain. This is the stimulus we are looking for.

So now you train hard for 4 weeks and build up this deficit where you are right on the verge of overtraining (this point is called overreaching and the 4 weeks are called loading). The body knows it's ed. What do you do? Pull the rug out and allow it to recover (deload). Generally you slash volume and frequency for a period to allow the body to recover and add some muscle in adaptation to the training stress. After a period of deloading you come back and load again - bigger and stronger (wait - remember about the BBers who took some time off and came back stronger - amazing fit is it not?).

This whole idea is called dual factor theory. Now most BBers haven't heard of it and couldn't explain it. It's largely greek to most of the people reading this. I mean, there are guys on here that know just about everything about drugs and diet but this is brand new to them. Well, it isn't brand new. It's not even remotely new or a little bit obscure. This is how 99.9% of the world's elite athletes are trained. We are talking near universal acceptance by every researcher and strength coach in the US, China, Europe, the Eastern Block, the former Soviet nations - everywhere. It's absolutely and totally prolific. On top of that there is a massive mound of scientific evidence to support it.

So how do you incorporate something like this? Logical question because in all my time at EF <I was here for a while as Madcow1 in 2000-2002ish too> I see people posting their programs and splits but there are critical factors missing. I can take the best split and exercise selection and bust my ass in the gym yet the stimulus is subpar because I'm not providing for loading/deloading. Generally this is handled by managing volume. A high volume period and then a low volume period.

There is a good program here that breaks many of the common rules in this thread (number of sets, frequency of training, all kinds of stuff). It has you squat 3x per week in addition to DLing once, rowing and benching twice. That won't work you say no one can squat 3x per week. Well it's actually not a problem and people have been running this program for 30 years and making huge gains. Several board members here are running it now or have just finished with big steroid like results but they were natural lifters (off the top of my head one is up 17lbs in week 7, another 16lbs in week 6, one younger guy was up 12 in week 6-7 but got that flu and has been out of commission). I didn't make this program so I can't take credit but it was orignally designed by Bill Starr, one of the greatest strength coaches ever, and later adapted by a Johnsmith182 from Meso who is actually one of the US' finest strength coaches - incidentally this job entails adding LBM to athletes in time constrained environments and this program is as good as any designed at doing it and far far better than just about anything most guys are using around here to add muscle. It's also avoided like the plague by weightclass constrained athletes who are near the top of their class as it simply causes too much weight gain and the diet restriction to prevent it is very severe. I ended up running it a few years ago and had to slash my calories twice in order to keep my gains down to the 8-10lbs range over 8 weeks (and I was not stuffing myself before). The cream of the program is that it is fantastic at adding LBM to an athlete but is also a very simple and easy to understand implementation of dual factor theory.

So anyway - that's the jist on training. None of this is revolutionary. It is in fact very standard stuff. The single factor camp is nearly empty devoid of anyone except BBers and I can certainly respect an educated choice to disagree in the face of all this but the fact that almost no one understands or has heard of what is the basic and dominant theory of training around the world doesn't exactly give me confidence that this is the situation. In fact the situation is that BBing has fallen so far behind on training knowledge that something really needs to be done.

I really hope this helps someone - I have no idea how training became all voodoo and the general potion separated so far away ( likely A.Jones and Nautilus, the near extincation of Olympic Lifting, Weider's rosy image of BBing, the heavy reliance on steroids to compensate, who knows).

My wife is about to kill me for being up late and my 15 month old is crying let me provide some links for those who are interested. For those that aren't and are totally happy with what they are doing - that's cool too and all that really matters. But, if you want to learn about how training is done around the world and how the best coaches bulk and strengthen their athletes and why it is very very different from what is commonly seen in the gyms - maybe even make some better gains than what you are used to, then maybe this is useful to you:

Mad Cow has some strong opinions but is damned smart.
 
On Working Chest

Before the 1950s, roughly, the overhead press was the measure of upper body strength. Pec tears were unheard of. When flat benching overtook overhead pressing in everyone's heads, pec tears went through the roof. Now, they're becoming all too common. A friend of mine tore his a month ago, and now he's looking at a full year to get back to where he was before.

I am not saying people should give up pressing. But I do think that it's a mistake to press heavy every week, or to keep pushing through any sort of pain or tightness.
 

JB1981

Member
BlueTsunami said:
A interesting observation but going into the gym each week I'm now noticing that multitudes of people stick in the Freeweight room, Machine Weights room and Cardio area but barely touch the Leg Room (Squats, Leg Presses, Leg Extensions etc) and Abdominal area.
because all those workouts are the hardest

i squatted over the summer and every time I went home and had to sit down for a half hour - it jolted my system badly - i felt like i was gonna throw up after almost every workout.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
JB1981 said:
because all those workouts are the hardest

i squatted over the summer and every time I went home and had to sit down for a half hour - it jolted my system badly - i felt like i was gonna throw up after almost every workout.

I squatted on Monday and my glutes are still very very sore. It sucks cause its tough to Sprint after an extensive lower body workout. It seems like I can't have my cake and eat it, therefor I'm just stricly sticking to weightlifting with bits of Cardio thrown in.

Captain Glanton said:
On Working Chest

Before the 1950s, roughly, the overhead press was the measure of upper body strength. Pec tears were unheard of. When flat benching overtook overhead pressing in the everyone's heads, pec tears went through the roof. Now, they're becoming all too common. A friend of mine tore his a month ago, and now he's looking at a full year to get back to where he was before.

I am not saying people should give up pressing. But I do think that it's a mistake to press heavy every week, or to keep pushing through any sort of pain or tightness.

I've never torn a muscle and never ever want too but I think to the untrained weightlifter that doesn't have any guidance they'll only learn when it finally happens to them. Sort of like how you first learn to drive and you drive recklessly, it takes your first full on accident to keep you straight.

Fortunately I'm actively training with my Father who went from a stick firgure in High School to a bulked up monster in the 90's. Hes back in it now after 7 or so years (along with me).
 
Captain Glanton said:
On Working Chest

Before the 1950s, roughly, the overhead press was the measure of upper body strength. Pec tears were unheard of. When flat benching overtook overhead pressing in the everyone's heads, pec tears went through the roof. Now, they're becoming all too common. A friend of mine tore his a month ago, and now he's looking at a full year to get back to where he was before.

I am not saying people should give up pressing. But I do think that it's a mistake to press heavy every week, or to keep pushing through any sort of pain or tightness.

Good call. Only benching also fucks up your shoulders--overhead pressing is not only a "submaximal" load when it comes to overall pressing max, but done correctly (PROPER pressing form), contributes to a strong rotator cuff and shoulder flexibility. I alternate my weeks, going from bench to press.
 

YYZ

Junior Member
Hey I was wondering how long of a rest you guys take between sets? For me I've been doing ~50 seconds between sets regardless of heavy or light load. By the time I get set and start moving the weight, it has been about a minute since the last set.

Are there any guidelines for rest times? If I go any longer then I lose that pump/charge.
 
YYZ said:
Hey I was wondering how long of a rest you guys take between sets? For me I've been doing ~50 seconds between sets regardless of heavy or light load. By the time I get set and start moving the weight, it has been about a minute since the last set.

Are there any guidelines for rest times? If I go any longer then I lose that pump/charge.

Again, why so much emphasis on the pump?

I rest about 3-5 minutes between my sets. If your focus is straight hypertrophy, then yeah, short rests (less than 90 seconds) should be used.
 
BlueTsunami said:
I squatted on Monday and my glutes are still very very sore. It sucks cause its tough to Sprint after an extensive lower body workout. It seems like I can't have my cake and eat it, therefor I'm just stricly sticking to weightlifting with bits of Cardio thrown in.

It takes a while for your legs to get used to the stress of squatting. If you're just starting out, it might take several weeks until the soreness period is down to a day or two. If you've been squatting for a while, and you're still sore for an entire week, then you might need to up the amount of clean food you're getting.
 

GHG

Member
Can someone fully explain the benefits of squatting to me please? I have been lifting for just over 3 years now but I've only ever done them on and off. Bare in mind I play football (soccer) at university and rely a lot on my pace, so would it still be beneficial for me to incorporate them into my plan without it effecting my legs too much (i.e. I don't want to put on huge amounts of leg mass and get slower)? At the moment I'm just unsure about them.
 
No other exercise gives your legs, your hormones, and your nervous system (well, not completely true, deadlifts fuck with your nervous system more than squats) a better workout. Done properly, squats increase the strength of EVERY muscle in your leg, help with your hip drive, and increase power output. UNLESS you start developing thunder thighs, any leg mass you grow from reps of 5 or lower will be more than worth it in power and strength output.

If you want to focus solely on power, work with speed reps at 60% of your max (this does not mean high reps), and also squats with 1-3 reps. This is another good way at balancing the amount of strength and power you develop without leg mass.

ALWAYS remember this: increasing the endurance of a muscle will not increase your absolute strength. Increasing the absolute strength of a muscle WILL also increase your endurance.

What's there not to like?
 

tombur

Member
Two questions, if anyone could help me out that would be great:

1. HIIT swimming: has anybody here had experience with this or have any knowledge on how I should be performing it? I recently injured my knees meaning i can not run for a few weeks/months, so I figured that I should give swimming a go! Being the lazy person I am, I also decided to not opt for hour long swimming bore-a-thons and try HIIT with swimming (if there is such a thing).

2. I am pretty strapped for money at the moment and thinking about buying a barbell and dumbbell set (unsure of weight just yet). Though it isn't that much money, would it be better spent on gym membership, or would a dumbbell and barbell set suit a beginner to weightlifting? Bearing in mind that I could easily fabricate a squatting rack or benches, so safety wouldn't be as much of an issue.
 

GHG

Member
Mr. Snrub said:
No other exercise gives your legs, your hormones, and your nervous system (well, not completely true, deadlifts fuck with your nervous system more than squats) a better workout. Done properly, squats increase the strength of EVERY muscle in your leg, help with your hip drive, and increase power output. UNLESS you start developing thunder thighs, any leg mass you grow from reps of 5 or lower will be more than worth it in power and strength output.

If you want to focus solely on power, work with speed reps at 60% of your max (this does not mean high reps), and also squats with 1-3 reps. This is another good way at balancing the amount of strength and power you develop without leg mass.

ALWAYS remember this: increasing the endurance of a muscle will not increase your absolute strength. Increasing the absolute strength of a muscle WILL also increase your endurance.

What's there not to like?

Thanks. I'll give it a try and see how it goes.

Tombur said:
2. I am pretty strapped for money at the moment and thinking about buying a barbell and dumbbell set (unsure of weight just yet). Though it isn't that much money, would it be better spent on gym membership, or would a dumbbell and barbell set suit a beginner to weightlifting? Bearing in mind that I could easily fabricate a squatting rack or benches, so safety wouldn't be as much of an issue.

I can answer the 2nd question. My advice would be to start of with a dumbell and barbell set at home since your a beginner. Gyms can be quite daunting for beginners. Then when you get stronger and require bigger weights invest in a gym membership. That way you'll get the full benefit of the gym as well since at the start there will be a lot you can't do.
 

Brendonia

"Edge stole Big Ben's helmet"
Hey Snrub and Glanton, and anyone else that wants to chime in, random question.

I just tried front squats for the first time and found that I couldn't do NEARLY as much weight as I could on regulars. I'm guessing this is normal but I wasn't sure if it was horrible form or that is just the nature of them.

For example, I was doing sets of 12 (it's part of the workout I'm doing now, I know not optimal reps) and with normal squats I usually use about 190-200 pounds for that. I could barely do 135 with front squats.

Do you think it's form or just a function of the exercise?

Thanks.
 
Brendonia said:
Hey Snrub and Glanton, and anyone else that wants to chime in, random question.

I just tried front squats for the first time and found that I couldn't do NEARLY as much weight as I could on regulars. I'm guessing this is normal but I wasn't sure if it was horrible form or that is just the nature of them.

For example, I was doing sets of 12 (it's part of the workout I'm doing now, I know not optimal reps) and with normal squats I usually use about 190-200 pounds for that. I could barely do 135 with front squats.

Do you think it's form or just a function of the exercise?

Thanks.
That's perfectly normal. Front squats only use part of your quad [roughly speaking] while back squats use everything, so of course you can only do part of the weight.
 

Trident

Loaded With Aspartame
This question is almost too stupid to ask, but am I right assuming dumbbell squats are not as effective as barbell squats? I started doing dumbbell squats the other day and my knee has actually gotten better somehow, but I still have beginner fear of actually putting a barbell on my back.
 
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