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Official Fitness Thread of Whipping Your Butt into Shape

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I haven't posted in this thread for a while, and I thought I'd talk about my progress. Not because I'm so interesting, but because this might be useful for people who are looking to start a program.

I've been following Rippetoe for about 3 months now, alternating a squat-press-row workout with a squat-dead-bench workout (one day rest in between). I've gained 15 pounds so far. I never lifted weights before, I used to only cycle & play team sports.

Strength and general well-being have increased, and I can see a difference in muscle mass.

My squat is about 1 x bodyweight, my deadlift is about 1 1/4 x bodyweight (I'm tall & lanky, so these numbers aren't that terrible.) I hurt my chest a while ago while doing dips, so my bench and press have stagnated a little (I think I caused a tiny tear in my 'minor pec' while doing dips--it took like a month to heal.)

Anyway, I highly recommend this program. It's simple (only a few exercises), it motivates you to break PRs (especially at first when progress goes fast) and it gives results!
 

Ace 8095

Member
Boogie said:
I'm a 100% sure he squats heavy, hard, and often. You will be stronger if you follow a proper strength training program. You will never approach any of the great MMA fighters if you don’t follow a proper strength training program.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
I'm having trouble with front squats. Power cleans too, I guess, but it's a bigger problem on front squats. It just doesn't feel right how I'm holding it, somehow. And it sometimes hurts my wrist. Exactly how am I supposed to be holding it at the top?
 

Boogie

Member
Ace 8095 said:
I'm a 100% sure he squats heavy, hard, and often. You will be stronger if you follow a proper strength training program. You will never approach any of the great MMA fighters if you don’t follow a proper strength training program.

I'll never deny that proper strength training is important.

What do you think of this workout?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIEm1DEST34

or this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq7Kdv0RHmc (okay, ya, the forbidden machines)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RREGFOZoZTk

I just want to know why there seems to be only 1 set of recommendations in this thread, workout wise, and why (in your case), you are such a condescending asshole when making them, especially considering you say you're only 18 and have been lifting for only 6 months yourself.
 

Mr.City

Member
Jesus Glaton, you look like a monster.

Also, can anyone offer some advice on roman deadlifts? I'm really excited about trying those out, but I'm also worried about ripping myself apart in the process.
 
demon said:
I'm having trouble with front squats. Power cleans too, I guess, but it's a bigger problem on front squats. It just doesn't feel right how I'm holding it, somehow. And it sometimes hurts my wrist. Exactly how am I supposed to be holding it at the top?
I put my hands longways on the bar, crossed at the wrists, with the crook of my thumbs under the bar.

Mr. City said:
Also, can anyone offer some advice on roman deadlifts? I'm really excited about trying those out, but I'm also worried about ripping myself apart in the process.
Do you mean Romanian Deadlifts? The trick is that you lower the weight by sticking your butt out behind you, not by bending your back. Start with the bar at mid-thigh, and stick your butt farther out until the bar is just below your knees. Then bring the butt back in to raise the bar back up.
 
demon said:
I'm having trouble with front squats. Power cleans too, I guess, but it's a bigger problem on front squats. It just doesn't feel right how I'm holding it, somehow. And it sometimes hurts my wrist. Exactly how am I supposed to be holding it at the top?

May just be a flexibility issue. It will take a while to get rid of the discomfort of your wrists being so extended in the rack position. Are your elbows up in the rack position? The bar itself should be resting on the meeting portion of your shoulders/upper chest--your wrists just keep it positioned correctly.
 
Boogie said:
I just want to know why there seems to be only 1 set of recommendations in this thread, workout wise, and why (in your case), you are such a condescending asshole when making them, especially considering you say you're only 18 and have been lifting for only 6 months yourself.

Boogie,
The reason is that for beginners, Rippetoe's program is probably the best place to start for 80-90% of the people here. Even for intermediates, Rippetoe's program is a great one. It has been proven to work, in high schools and with athletic groups across the country, and is founded on a solid basis of squats, presses, and pulls. There is no BS to the program, no body sculpting, no theory--he and his peers are some of the few who successfully combine science and practice. If it works so well, why would we recommend anything else?
 
Just finished a session and I have to say that the walking lunges did give me some trouble with the knee. Is there some other alternative that does the same thing with less impact?
 

Slo

Member
Captain Glanton said:
I can has vanity?
And a little backne :(
nd6ebm.jpg

Nice traps.
 
Slo said:
Nice traps.
Well thanks! I've never done a shrug or power shrug, btw.


On this Rippetoe argument.
I can see the necessity of having a 'bible' as you start exercising for the first time. There's an enormous amount of bullshit out there, and most of it's designed to steal your money. I have no doubt that MR knows his stuff, and I am going to add some more links and maybe book images to the OP.

But you know what? I had never heard of the guy before this thread. It's one thing to follow a program slavishly while still a beginner, but as soon as you can, you gotta expand your horizons, push yourself to try something crazy, and take the fucking training wheels off. I've only been doing this for 3 years, but for at least half of that time I've been following my own program, or just mixing and matching things I've read about. You have to take control of your own exercise--it's your damn body and your damn health--and I don't see how you can do that if you're getting all of your information from one source.
 

Chichikov

Member
I'll add my 2 cents on Rippetoe as well -

Rippetoe speaks with great authority and certainty, this one of his greatest assets - a beginner wants answers, simple and easy to follow, not more questions.
And for the most part, at least from what I read, he gives some pretty good advices, but FFS, he's not infallible.
This is especially true when dealing with nutrition and medical problems, the guy looks like a great coach, but people, don't assume he got the one and only truth on stuff where the science is sill out on.

Now, I'm not trying to rip him, the guy made people squat, for that alone he deserve some kind of prize.

p.s.
Let's keep it civil.
If this thread somehow turns into a fanboy fights between the Ripptards and the Bodyweightbots, I'm going to retire from the Internet.
 

Jirotrom

Member
Chichikov said:
I'll add my 2 cents on Rippetoe as well -

Rippetoe speaks with great authority and certainty, this one of his greatest assets - a beginner wants answers, simple and easy to follow, not more questions.
And for the most part, at least from what I read, he gives some pretty good advices, but FFS, he's not infallible.
This is especially true when dealing with nutrition and medical problems, the guy looks like a great coach, but people, don't assume he got the one and only truth on stuff where the science is sill out on.

Now, I'm not trying to rip him, the guy made people squat, for that alone he deserve some kind of prize.

p.s.
Let's keep it civil.
If this thread somehow turns into a fanboy fights between the Ripptards and the Bodyweightbots, I'm going to retire from the Internet.
what if you can't squat, I can't squat past parallel without lifting my heels, sucks but its always been that way for me.
 
Jirotrom said:
what if you can't squat, I can't squat past parallel without lifting my heels, sucks but its always been that way for me.

Unless it's a medical condition, you CAN squat. There is NO anthropometry that makes squatting impossible. It's a matter of flexibility and form.
 

Chichikov

Member
Jirotrom said:
what if you can't squat, I can't squat past parallel without lifting my heels, sucks but its always been that way for me.
Most likely a hamstring flexibility issue, as luck would have it, squats are a great way to improve it.
Also, make sure you stretch your hamstrings before squatting.

If you’re absolutely cannot do it you have two options –
Widen your stance or get an elevated heel shoes.
I don’t think either is ideal, but it’s better than not squatting at all or doing half squats.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
As Chichikov stated, I find that widening my stance definitely allows me to do a deeper squat without feeling the need to get on my tiptoes. Just do less of a wider stance every week as your hamstrings get used to that type of movement.
 

Jirotrom

Member
Mr. Snrub said:
Unless it's a medical condition, you CAN squat. There is NO anthropometry that makes squatting impossible. It's a matter of flexibility and form.
I dont know... its really weird but to give you an example... I cant extend my arms fully elongated at the elbow, they look before going completely lateral or parallel with a table. I've always had flexibility issues, even in the height of my physical fitness, its basically genetic. I've spoken to doctors and checked on some of the issues I have and they state its just genetic.

EDTIT, and its not my hamstrings, its the front part of my calves, the lock tight, so when I try to squat I tip forward because of it. Deadlifts are hard to do because of it, but I can make do if I use a kettlebell because I can use the swing to keep me from falling... shitty, I know.
 
BlueTsunami said:
As Chichikov stated, I find that widening my stance definitely allows me to do a deeper squat without feeling the need to get on my tiptoes. Just do less of a wider stance every week as your hamstrings get used to that type of movement.

Backing this idea up again. I couldn't squat without going on my toes when I started, so then I started widening my stance and that has helped. Also, try to visualize the idea of you driving your heels into the ground rather than lifting with your toes. It feels like it has helped me.
 

Chichikov

Member
Jirotrom said:
EDTIT, and its not my hamstrings, its the front part of my calves, the lock tight, so when I try to squat I tip forward because of it. Deadlifts are hard to do because of it, but I can make do if I use a kettlebell because I can use the swing to keep me from falling... shitty, I know.
I’m confused, isn’t the front of your calf the shinbone?
Can you try explaining what you think is your problem with more details?

Also, do you tip forward when getting down or when you try to push up?
The most common cause of tipping forward is bad technique; usually rolling your back, not keeping your knees out, leaning too much forward or not sticking butt enough.

It can certainly be Achilles inflexibility, but you'll need to have it in some pretty terrible shape for it to prevent you from squatting.

Can you take a video of yourself squatting?
Maybe I can give you some pointers.
 

Boogie

Member
Mr. Snrub said:
Boogie,
The reason is that for beginners, Rippetoe's program is probably the best place to start for 80-90% of the people here. Even for intermediates, Rippetoe's program is a great one. It has been proven to work, in high schools and with athletic groups across the country, and is founded on a solid basis of squats, presses, and pulls. There is no BS to the program, no body sculpting, no theory--he and his peers are some of the few who successfully combine science and practice. If it works so well, why would we recommend anything else?

I didn't mean to balk at the advice.

My concern was only in the perception that it seems to be a catch-all program. When Ace gave his suggestion for the Rippetoe program, the very first response (Trident's), was

"I'd imagine a 3x a week, full body workout routine + 2 days a week of intense martial arts training may be closing in on over exertion"

So my concern lies in that. I'm not trying to pick and choose what advice to listen to, I'm not trying to ask for advice and reject it at the same time, and I'm not saying I'm some "special case" where the standard advice doesn't apply.

I'm just saying that my martial arts training comes first, and strength training second. I don't know what constitutes a "full body workout" in Ace's mind, but my training is intense, and I'm as sore, and often moreso, the day after my BJJ classes than I am after weight training. So if slapping Rippetoe on top of my BJJ is going to do me harm, than I want to know that. Just looking for different options/routines.

edit: Hell, the cardio heading in the link Ace provided seems to outright say that my BJJ training is incompatible with Rippetoe's program:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=13263465&postcount=36

Question - I want to bulk but I want to stay in good shape. Can I do some cardio during this program?

Not only can you, you should! However, the emphasis is going to be on LIGHT CARDIO. You must be VERY careful not to overdo this. Start the program with a brisk walk in the mornings on non-training days and preferably some strength-oriented GPP as part of your barbell sessions as described in the GPP post. Increase time/intensity/speed on the cardio/conditioning/GPP in a very conservative manner. Monitor your barbell progress closely. If it seems like your gains slow down as you increase the conditioning work, then drop back on the conditioning!

In the end though, consistent and very close monitoring of barbell progress is of utmost importance. Keep in mind that the goal is to add muscular bodyweight and strength. As long as recovery between training sessions is complete, then the cardio can and should be continued. If it interferes with progress, then it needs to be reduced or dropped entirely.


Question - Can I do HIIT on my off-days?

Not if you expect to recover fully for your weight training. HIIT is fantastic for conditioning and fat loss, but it can dig into recovery when on a full-body routine. The amount of direct leg work in the novice Starting Strength program is rather immense, and HIIT is difficult to perform without hitting the legs pretty hard.
 
Boogie, some of the trainers at t-nation actually do S&C work with elite MMA fighters. Go to the site and try to find the articles they've written [I know there are some, I just don't remember who wrote them or the titles]. If you can't find them, come back here and I'll look for them.

In short, yes they do strength training with MMA fighters, but it isn't what they do with 'gym rats' at all.
 

Boogie

Member
Captain Glanton said:
Boogie, some of the trainers at t-nation actually do S&C work with elite MMA fighters. Go to the site and try to find the articles they've written [I know there are some, I just don't remember who wrote them or the titles]. If you can't find them, come back here and I'll look for them.

In short, yes they do strength training with MMA fighters, but it isn't what they do with 'gym rats' at all.

Thanks, I'll do some searching.
 

Jirotrom

Member
Chichikov said:
I’m confused, isn’t the front of your calf the shinbone?
Can you try explaining what you think is your problem with more details?

Also, do you tip forward when getting down or when you try to push up?
The most common cause of tipping forward is bad technique; usually rolling your back, not keeping your knees out, leaning too much forward or not sticking butt enough.

It can certainly be Achilles inflexibility, but you'll need to have it in some pretty terrible shape for it to prevent you from squatting.

Can you take a video of yourself squatting?
Maybe I can give you some pointers.
Im tipping forward because I cant hold my heels down after I squat too low even in a wide stance same problem. I kid you not, they lock up has for as long as I can remember, Its, I've tried it with trainers and what not, my GFs mother is a trainer as well, So I just leg press as it ends up being a safer situation for me. Its the muscle above my foot slightly above the carpels, if thats what they are called in the foot, I'm really series, I'm completely unable to squat w/o raising my heel, If I try to go on my heels I fall back. When I use a kettle bell, I can swing my arm forward so it keeps me from falling back, I tip forward when I try to squat in reaction to keep from falling back.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Captain Glanton said:
No respect for Rocky IV? For shame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8xHjC27YvM

The funny thing is that Soviet training methodology was actually far ahead of the US's.

Totally forgot about IV :/

But yeah, I actually dig Rocky's barn style old school workout regimen, it just looks so manly. I need to find a wagon I can fill with boulders.

Also, Rocky IV Montage music > All the other Rocky's

Oh man, just listened to "Hearts on Fire". I literally came back from a 1 1/2 workout session and want to go back :lol

The full montage (with the second Hearts of Fire section): http://www.dailymotion.com/relevanc.../x3mgp7_rocky-iv-training-montages_shortfilms

I love when Rocky is pushing off the wagon and just yells Drago. You can tell Stallone was doin' it up <3333
 

Ace 8095

Member
Jirotrom said:
So, I've decided to start doing guided squats along with leg presses, hard as crap for me to do.
Squats are all the leg work you need as a beginner. Focus all your strength on them and you will make better gains that if you half-assed in order to get leg presses in. Also make sure to perform dead lifts.
 
I have a question. How many carbs are too much? 178cm tall and 75kg here and I eat a bowl of cereal for breakfast (Corn Flakes for now, switching to bran when I run out), then get the rest of the day's carbs from two pieces of fruit and a slice of toast. Instead of the second piece of fruit and the toast today though, I just ate a bread roll.

Is that too much in terms of carbs (or not enough)? I ask because I love me some bread rolls. Especially fresh baked ones. Mmmm. It wasn't huge (about five inches across), if that's any help.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Jirotrom said:
So, I've decided to start doing guided squats along with leg presses, hard as crap for me to do.

As a beginner (with squats, as I am) I suggest buying a belt (non-velcro if possible). You'll feel more confident when it comes to max weight.

viciouskillersquirrel said:
I have a question. How many carbs are too much? 178cm tall and 75kg here and I eat a bowl of cereal for breakfast (Corn Flakes for now, switching to bran when I run out), then get the rest of the day's carbs from two pieces of fruit and a slice of toast. Instead of the second piece of fruit and the toast today though, I just ate a bread roll.

Is that too much in terms of carbs (or not enough)? I ask because I love me some bread rolls. Especially fresh baked ones. Mmmm. It wasn't huge (about five inches across), if that's any help.

I've read 300g daily for my own body weight and height (5'4 160lb). I would think you would cut that in 1/3 or even 1/2 if you want to cut up your carbs.
 
I had a real binger yesterday, where I ate tons of peanuts, candy, ice cream, chips, crackers, etc. I was a pig. And I've been sooooooo good too. Anyway, I hopped on the scale this morning, and I was +3.2lbs from yesterday morning. Holy shit. I mean, holy fucking shit. Never again. I know I didn't eat 3 pounds of food... I wonder if all the salt made me retain water or something. I went thru my cupboard today and threw out all the treats, just in the off chance I felt like doing something similar anytime soon.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
SHOTEH FOCK OP said:
I had a real binger yesterday, where I ate tons of peanuts, candy, ice cream, chips, crackers, etc. I was a pig. And I've been sooooooo good too. Anyway, I hopped on the scale this morning, and I was +3.2lbs from yesterday morning. Holy shit. I mean, holy fucking shit. Never again. I know I didn't eat 3 pounds of food... I wonder if all the salt made me retain water or something. I went thru my cupboard today and threw out all the treats, just in the off chance I felt like doing something similar anytime soon.

Just a warning, at some point your going to have a real strong urge to eat a 20 piece chicken nugget meal. Its horrible and its strong ;_;
 
BlueTsunami said:
Just a warning, at some point your going to have a real strong urge to eat a 20 piece chicken nugget meal. Its horrible and its strong ;_;
You think that's bad? Krispy Kreme had their Brisbane launch the day after I resolved to get into shape. I have to walk past it every morning on my way to work ;_;
 
Is there any merit to squatting without a belt? I recently lost my belt and have been squatting without one for a few weeks and it feels like my core is more engaged in the exercise and my abs are getting much more defined. Is this all in my head?
 

Jirotrom

Member
Ace 8095 said:
Squats are all the leg work you need as a beginner. Focus all your strength on them and you will make better gains that if you half-assed in order to get leg presses in. Also make sure to perform dead lifts.
im not a beginner...:lol but thanks.
 
w00t!

Sticking with the aerobic stuff. Gone from 209 to 205 in a week.

Granted, IIRC the first 10-15lbs. lost is fluid anyhow. :p

Need to shed the excess blubber, then I'll focus on building some muscle.
 

Chichikov

Member
BamYouHaveAids said:
Is there any merit to squatting without a belt? I recently lost my belt and have been squatting without one for a few weeks and it feels like my core is more engaged in the exercise and my abs are getting much more defined. Is this all in my head?
If you can do it safely, squatting (or pretty much everything) is preferable without a belt.
 
Jirotrom said:
I dont know... its really weird but to give you an example... I cant extend my arms fully elongated at the elbow, they look before going completely lateral or parallel with a table. I've always had flexibility issues, even in the height of my physical fitness, its basically genetic. I've spoken to doctors and checked on some of the issues I have and they state its just genetic.

EDTIT, and its not my hamstrings, its the front part of my calves, the lock tight, so when I try to squat I tip forward because of it. Deadlifts are hard to do because of it, but I can make do if I use a kettlebell because I can use the swing to keep me from falling... shitty, I know.

Sorry, I missed this. Front part of your calves? What do you mean? Your calves really wouldn't have anything to do with your ability to squat low. It sounds like you just need to adjust the width of your stance, the bar position, and STRETCH. With squatting, its usually an issue of hip flexors and hamstring flexibility.
 
Boogie said:
I didn't mean to balk at the advice.

My concern was only in the perception that it seems to be a catch-all program. When Ace gave his suggestion for the Rippetoe program, the very first response (Trident's), was

"I'd imagine a 3x a week, full body workout routine + 2 days a week of intense martial arts training may be closing in on over exertion"

So my concern lies in that. I'm not trying to pick and choose what advice to listen to, I'm not trying to ask for advice and reject it at the same time, and I'm not saying I'm some "special case" where the standard advice doesn't apply.

I'm just saying that my martial arts training comes first, and strength training second. I don't know what constitutes a "full body workout" in Ace's mind, but my training is intense, and I'm as sore, and often moreso, the day after my BJJ classes than I am after weight training. So if slapping Rippetoe on top of my BJJ is going to do me harm, than I want to know that. Just looking for different options/routines.

edit: Hell, the cardio heading in the link Ace provided seems to outright say that my BJJ training is incompatible with Rippetoe's program:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=13263465&postcount=36

Rippetoe actually doesn't approve of the Bodybuilding.com FAQ of his work. He is in no way involved with it, and doesn't like it because it is so non-chalant about the use of power cleans in his program.

Check out his own forum here: http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=36

Many MMA types have asked him similar questions and he gives ideas on combining his program with Crossfit, which is basically pure metabolic conditioning. Hope this helps.

EDIT: Actually, he has just posted a program that combines strength and conditioning. Check it out: http://www.strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1381
 
Jirotrom said:
So, I've decided to start doing guided squats along with leg presses, hard as crap for me to do.

Try as hard as you can to work on squatting with a free weight barbell. The guided version is...it's just not good for you.
 
BamYouHaveAids said:
Is there any merit to squatting without a belt? I recently lost my belt and have been squatting without one for a few weeks and it feels like my core is more engaged in the exercise and my abs are getting much more defined. Is this all in my head?

The only reason you should be using a belt is if you have been injured previously or are doing a max attempt. SOME people know how to use a belt properly on the last few sets, but most times, belts are overused and lead to lack of development of your core. Which is exactly what you experienced, it sounds like.
 

BojTrek

Banned
I have started my little summer workout routine... but it might not be considered a workout routine by many.

Push-ups and abs every day!

That is it... I started Sunday...

25 push-ups the first set... 20 next... 20... so 65 on day one
Monday 30 push-ups the first set... 20 next... so 50 that day...
Tuesday 35 push-ups... no more
Wednesday 35 push-ups...

Since Sunday I have been doing this abs machine called RED. It is a stool with handles and the seat swivels... and you use your abs/stomach to turn the chair... it is nice... it is working believe it or not...

So, my tiny workout routine has started... push-ups and abs...
 
BojTrek said:
I have started my little summer workout routine... but it might not be considered a workout routine by many.

Push-ups and abs every day!

That is it... I started Sunday...

25 push-ups the first set... 20 next... 20... so 65 on day one
Monday 30 push-ups the first set... 20 next... so 50 that day...
Tuesday 35 push-ups... no more
Wednesday 35 push-ups...

Since Sunday I have been doing this abs machine called RED. It is a stool with handles and the seat swivels... and you use your abs/stomach to turn the chair... it is nice... it is working believe it or not...

So, my tiny workout routine has started... push-ups and abs...

It's good that you've started doing something. But at the very minimum, you need to add some exercises for your legs and your back, as well as some cardio of some kind.

What kinds of equipment or options for other exercises are available to you?
 

lil smoke

Banned
Captain Glanton said:
What kinds of equipment or options for other exercises are available to you?
Hey Capt. Got any home exercises for legs with small dumbells? (25lbs. ... or without) Nothing crazy, just to add to a light morning warm up before work?
 

Slo

Member
lil smoke said:
Hey Capt. Got any home exercises for legs with small dumbells? (25lbs. ... or without) Nothing crazy, just to add to a light morning warm up before work?

Lunges. One legged squats.
 
lil smoke said:
Hey Capt. Got any home exercises for legs with small dumbells? (25lbs. ... or without) Nothing crazy, just to add to a light morning warm up before work?
In addition to Slo's post, you might try jump squats while holding the dumbbells. 20 or 25 of those should do a body good.
 
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