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[Hadji]

Muslims, see what happens when you accept rumors dating 2 centuries after Muhammad? You claim that he married a 9 year old.

Muslims, see what happens when you reject hadeeth? You have to start to realize that you don't know how to pray or pay the alms. You then begin bend your beliefs to suit whatever is acceptable to "the world". One day, you grow up realizing that the Qur'an doesn't condemn homosexuality and start to believe that Jews, Christians, and atheists can even enter heaven. You start to eat pork and drink alcohol since the Qur'an supposedly doesn't directly (according to your standards) prohibit them.

I honestly cannot wait until China takes over the world and see RiZ III find it Islamicly acceptable to eat aborted foetuses.

 

[RiZ III]

Muslims, see what happens when you reject hadeeth? You have to start to realize that you don't know how to pray or pay the alms. You then begin bend your beliefs to suit whatever is acceptable to "the world". One day, you grow up realizing that the Qur'an doesn't condemn homosexuality and start to believe that Jews, Christians, and atheists can even enter heaven. You start to eat pork and drink alcohol since the Qur'an supposedly doesn't directly (according to your standards) prohibit them.

I honestly cannot wait until China takes over the world and see RiZ III find it Islamicly acceptable to eat aborted foetuses.

:lol Alright well you keep waiting for that day Hadji. Do you believe that music is haram Hadji? I can cite a hadith from Bhukari which implies that. What you do is no different from any Hindus, Christians, or any other faith. You simply believe in your texts because you found your forefathers doing the same even though these texts are built on extremely shaky grounds. If you want to believe that people were accurately able to record thousands of sayings of a man who lived 200 years before them, go ahead, but don't go spouting that people who don't accept such an absurd claim are 'not' Muslim. Go ahead and call me a non-Sunni though, cause that is what I am.

 

[Cooter]

I understand why he is pedophile in your eyes, but that's because of your twisted standards. Well, to be fair, it's not just yours, but pretty much most of the "civilized" world's.

Did you just endorse pedophilia?

 

[Azih]

Clarify what? Clarify the methodology of hadeeth criticism in a single post?

Sure, just hit me with the highlights. After all the most 'reliable' of the books of hadeeth were written more than a hundred years after the Prophet died by a man who wasn't even born at the time of the Prophet and this scrutiny you speak of was conducted by humans, fallible fallible humans, in a situation where the muslim community splintered as soon as the Prophet died (assassinations, and all sorts of other sectarian unpleasantness included.) So yeah a summary would be nice.

Muslims, see what happens when you reject the hadeeth? You cannot even know if your own prophet got married, let alone how old she was.

I don't understand that one.

 

[Hadji]

Did you just endorse pedophilia?

If endorsing pedophilia means not condemning the marriage of a man to a young woman in a society that finds it acceptable and common, then yes, I do endorse your "pedophilia".

It is ironic that Islam is under so much criticism due to this fact, when it is clear that Islam has extremely strict morals when it comes to sexually related activites, in fact stricter than most societies in the world today. Islam condemns pornography, anal intercourse, pre-marital sexual intercourse, most forms of modern "dating", and homosexuality. Yet, it accused for being morally flawed because it is lawful for one to get married to women under 18.

Your "human rights" are fickle. It shouldn't matter if a man or woman is under 18. Where did that number come from anyways?

Think about it this way. Put yourself in the shoes of a theist...

God created people and gave them the ability to give have babies when they hit the age of puberty. Hitting puberty is different from person to person and isn't restricted to the age of 18. If someone has the ability to give birth at an age younger than 18, why would it be socially unacceptable to get married to him/her?

I suggest you review your "human rights" and get off your high horse. Your judgement is clearly biased since you believe that your values are better than the values of your ancestors. Why? Because they are "your" values.

 

[avaya]

Did you just endorse pedophilia?

Hadji has been battling with other Muslims in this thread. That should tell you everything.

 

[PistolGrip]

My question is how can so many educated folks be so involved in a strict religion that seemed developed as a way control societies. Don't get me wrong I think religion is great for communities, wisdom, and a sense of purpose but I cannot sit back and ignore its logical inconsistencies, misinformation, and plagiarized work.

Intelligence is the ability to think critically something both Islam and Christianity implicitly denounce. Faith is king and doubt is evil! IOW, Ignorance is bliss. Probably why Education and Religion adaption are heavily correlated.

I think belief in religion can be summarized in this famous quote from the book, Prometheus rising, "What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves".

Spoiler

BTW I'm Christian

 

[CrushDance]

Hadji has been battling with other Muslims in this thread. That should tell you everything.

Did you just endorse pedophilia?

Say what? Did you forget that in those times most women died during childbirth and people did not live as long? Everyone had families at younger ages. Not just Arab countries *shakes head*

 

[Instigator]

Say what? Did you forget that in those times most women died during childbirth and people did not live as long? Everyone had families at younger ages. Not just Arab countries *shakes head*

I think even in ancient times, a girl generally had to hit puberty before being married off otherwise she'd be useless.

Arranged marriages can be done well in advance but consumating the marriage itself is another matter.

 

[Cooter]

If endorsing pedophilia means not condemning the marriage of a man to a young woman in a society that finds it acceptable and common, then yes, I do endorse your "pedophilia".

It is ironic that Islam is under so much criticism due to this fact, when it is clear that Islam has extremely strict morals when it comes to sexually related activites, in fact stricter than most societies in the world today. Islam condemns pornography, anal intercourse, pre-marital sexual intercourse, most forms of modern "dating", and homosexuality. Yet, it accused for being morally flawed because it is lawful for one to get married to women under 18.

Your "human rights" are fickle. It shouldn't matter if a man or woman is under 18. Where did that number come from anyways?

Think about it this way. Put yourself in the shoes of a theist...

God created people and gave them the ability to give have babies when they hit the age of puberty. Hitting puberty is different from person to person and isn't restricted to the age of 18. If someone has the ability to give birth at an age younger than 18, why would it be socially unacceptable to get married to him/her?

I suggest you review your "human rights" and get off your high horse. Your judgement is clearly biased since you believe that your values are better than the values of your ancestors. Why? Because they are "your" values.

I don't think grown men should have sex with 9 year-olds and I'm on a high horse. OK.

No porn or anal in Islam? Count me out.

I find it amusing that you are against two adults having sex on film but have no problem with a grown man having sex with a 9 year-old. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks so.

 

[zon]

Your "human rights" are fickle. It shouldn't matter if a man or woman is under 18. Where did that number come from anyways?

Think about it this way. Put yourself in the shoes of a theist...

God created people and gave them the ability to give have babies when they hit the age of puberty. Hitting puberty is different from person to person and isn't restricted to the age of 18. If someone has the ability to give birth at an age younger than 18, why would it be socially unacceptable to get married to him/her?

I'm just waiting for Hadji to admit that he wants to do the dirty with kids who are 9.

 

[Hadji]

I think even in ancient times, a girl generally had to hit puberty before being married off otherwise she'd be useless.

Arranged marriages can be done well in advance but consumating the marriage itself is another matter.

Karen Armstrong, the author of "Muhammad: a Biography of the Prophet" and "Islam: A Short History" had this to say:

"Tabari says that she was so young that she stayed in her
parents' home and the marriage was consummated there later when she had reached puberty".9 This further
establishes that the marriage took place at puberty and that, as such, no eyebrows were raised. "Tabari", it
should be mentioned, refers to Abu Jafar Muhammad ibn Jareer al-Tabari (225-310 AH / 839-923 CE), who was a
great Muslim scholar who is well known in the West for his Qur'anic commentary and history of the world.

No porn or anal in Islam? Count me out.

I find it amusing that you are against two adults having sex on film but have no problem with a grown man having sex with a 9 year-old. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks so.

I find it amusing that you are turned off by a religion because it condemns the porn industry and those that sadly jerk off while watching someone else "score."

That and the appeal of sticking your crotch into a woman's s***-hole...

To each his own I guess.

 

[saelz8]

It was never common to marry 9 year olds to grown men.

Uh, yes it was.

Rivka married Isaac when she was 3.

It was common for children to be married off, in many cases to raise ones group status. This idea of individuality that we enjoy in west right now was not very popular, if you know what I mean. Society was largely collectivist.

The group was the most important, at the end of the day, and is still very much the case for most of the world today.

Jonathan Haidt (University of Virginia) - Morality: 2012

 

[Cooter]

I find it amusing that you are turned off by a religion because it condemns the porn industry and those that sadly jerk off while watching someone else scoring.

That and the appeal of sticking your crotch into a woman's s***-hole...

To each his own I guess.

Yeah, to each his own. I'm curious, what's Islam's take on oral sex?

 

[Linkhero1]

Yeah, to each his own. I'm curious, what's Islam's take on oral sex?

LOL so many questions.

From what I hear it's allowed as along as no fluids make it into one's mouth.

 

[Cooter]

LOL so many questions.

From what I hear it's allowed as along as no fluids make it into one's mouth.

:lol

Please don't be offended by that. I just can't imagine the group that got together and discussed these rules.

"Ok, Jed, what about oral sex?"

"Hmm, ejaculate in mouth or not?"

"Not."

"Well, that should be fine."

 

[castle007]

First of all, women in Saudi Arabic and arabic women in general usually hit puberty waaaay before western women. Imagine how a 9-12 year old arabic woman would be like 1400 years ago!!!!

Look into Hadith and see what Aisha has to say about the prophet mohammad and how he treated. NOT ONCE did she say that he harmed her or abused her. He respected her and was one of his favorite wifes and Aisha told many ahadith over the years about the prophet.

 

[MeowMeow]

Muslims, see what happens when you reject hadeeth? You have to start to realize that you don't know how to pray or pay the alms.

You should NEVER rely on hadeeths, you should only rely on the Quran as the ultimate record and guidance to conduct your life. I bet none of you have really taken the time to understand the quran, and i mean understanding quran, i dont mean simply reciting, i mean UNDERSTANDING ITS TRANSLATION IN ENGLISH (OR YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE) AND EXPLANATION OF WHAT EACH VERSE MEANS.

Step 2 is then applying what you learn and associating it every day life events.

There is a difference between prayer, and acts of good will, and intentions of good will. People like to hide behind religion by giving a false image of how pure and good they are by praying, giving a rigid strict view of themselves, and showing how indestructable they are. But when it comes to a person who conducts wrong, or was wronged in some way shape or form, rather than giving guidance through grace and love, and giving them hope, we automatically label them as a person who is going to hell.

Those who pray and do ACTS of good, are the best among God, and only God knows who are God fearing and who are his faithful servants. Please stop this nonsense Hadji

One day, you grow up realizing that the Qur'an doesn't condemn homosexuality and start to believe that Jews, Christians, and atheists can even enter heaven.

Why are you acting like your the ultimate person who knows who is going to hell and heaven? I think you forgot these important verses in the Quran:

Surah Baqarah Verse 62
"Surely those who beleive, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever beleives in Allah and the last Day and does good, they have their reward with their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve"

Sura Al-Imran Verse 64:
"Say: O people of the book (jews, christians), come to an equitable word between us and you, that we shall sever none but God and that we shall not associate aught with Him, and some of us shall not take others for Lords Besides God. But if they turn away then say: Bear Witness we are muslims"

As mentioned before in my previous post, you have not clarified why HERMAPHRODITES exists.

You start to eat pork and drink alcohol since the Qur'an supposedly doesn't directly (according to your standards) prohibit them.

In exteme and unusual circumstances, drinking alcohol and eating pork would be ok. Especially when you have no food, or are starving. You would declare a prayer and state why you are eating pork. There is a drug called HEPARIN, which is a LIFE SAVING drug (anticoagulant) which is made of pork. In that situation, would take the heparin. Certain drugs only come in elixir form (the drug is only stable in alcohol) if that is the case, then its ok to drink the alcohol.

Please Hadji, stop with your judgemental cocky crap ass attitude. If you want to proove a point, refer to the Quran. Thanks.

 

[MeowMeow]

I don't think grown men should have sex with 9 year-olds and I'm on a high horse. OK.

No porn or anal in Islam? Count me out.

I find it amusing that you are against two adults having sex on film but have no problem with a grown man having sex with a 9 year-old. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Didnt we already clarify for you in my previous post, that polygamy marriage is not used for sexual purposes? How many times do we have to beat this to you guys? Please stop this crap.

The problem with this 'strictness' in islam is how these fundamentalist f*ck heads, and self righteous know it all morons like to make you feel dirty and filthy about your genitilia and your mind and your body. If that is the case, if God finds it so dirty and displeasing, WHY WOULD HE CREATE US THIS WAY IN THE FIRST PLACE? I bet sex is not even sexually pleasing in anyway shape or form-especially among women. Sex is suppose to be pleasing, it is designed to be pleasing. If you keep adhering to rigid veiws on sexuality your going to have rigid sex (especially if your a virgin)

Part of having sex is appreciating your human form, which unfortunatley is hindered considering how people find themselves dirty and filthy.

 

[MeowMeow]

I'm curious, what's Islam's take on oral sex?

Its ok as long as your married.

 

[RiZ III]

Uh, yes it was.

Rivka married Isaac when she was 3.

It was common for children to be married off, in many cases to raise ones group status. This idea of individuality that we enjoy in west right now was not very popular, if you know what I mean. Society was largely collectivist.

The group was the most important, at the end of the day, and is still very much the case for most of the world today.

Jonathan Haidt (University of Virginia) - Morality: 2012

I was referring to 6th century Arabia.

The Quran doesn't endorse prepubescent marriage. But of course the Quran can be overwritten and overlooked by using rumors collected 200 years later.

Surah Baqarah Verse 62
"Surely those who beleive, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever beleives in Allah and the last Day and does good, they have their reward with their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve"

Sura Al-Imran Verse 64:
"Say: O people of the book (jews, christians), come to an equitable word between us and you, that we shall sever none but God and that we shall not associate aught with Him, and some of us shall not take others for Lords Besides God. But if they turn away then say: Bear Witness we are muslims"

O you forget Meowmeow, the rumor books have overwritten these verses. Lulz.

You start to eat pork and drink alcohol since the Qur'an supposedly doesn't directly (according to your standards) prohibit them.

Where do you get this from?? Perhaps if you stopped to read the Quran you would find both clearly prohibited.

 

[MeowMeow]

Where do you get this from?? Perhaps if you stopped to read the Quran you would find both clearly prohibited.

Yes its prophibited, but do you know why it was prohibited? When Prophet Muhammad called his followers onto prayers, they came DRUNK. Men and women actually stood next to each other in prayers, but because they were still dumb at that time, men and women made fun of each other and their bodyparts. That is why men and women pray seperatley. That is why alcahol consumption is prohibited. Now what happens if you just drank a beer, or drank a glass of wine per week (which is actually good for you cause it raises HDL levels) does that mean your going to hell and dwell in their forwever? If you ate pork whether it was intention or unintential are you going to hell as well? NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

People learn how to prioritize what is important and what is not important. Do you think God is going to get so pissed off at you, that if you forgot prayer, ate pork, or drank alcohol that god is automatically going to send you in hell? The reason why alcohol is prophibitted is also because of its destructive affects in the liver, and the brain, and its addictive properties. Its common sense people! Use common sense, thats all God is asking for. Be mindful and critical of yourself. These are not blind robot orders.

Jebus f*cking chriast.

 

[FightyF]

Just like it's widely documented that God, Allah and the Flying Spaghetti-monster are real?

You don't have to believe in God, but to ignore historical accounts is just...ignorant.

Let me guess...you think Plato is some part of mythology that doesn't exist in real life?

Secondly, Hadji is correct in asserting that most scholars theorize that there were numerous reasons for marrying Aisha (at such a young [but permissible] age). The most significant being that she became a source of knowledge for the faith itself, years after the Prophet's death.

You can attempt to claim that he was a pedophile, but that would be pretty illogical considering that he was in a position of power, yet didn't pursue that as a goal or interest? If he was attracted to young children, why weren't there more wives that age? Especially when in a position of power where everyone would do what he said. So your allegation doesn't hold up. Especially when considering the reasons given as to why he married Aisha.

Apply a little reasoning, and logic. And also question yourself, in order to further understand what you know.

 

[RiZ III]

Yes its prophibited, but do you know why it was prohibited? When Prophet Muhammad called his followers onto prayers, they came DRUNK. Men and women actually stood next to each other in prayers, but because they were still dumb at that time, men and women made fun of each other and their bodyparts. That is why men and women pray seperatley. That is why alcahol consumption is prohibited. Now what happens if you just drank a beer, or drank a glass of wine per week (which is actually good for you cause it raises HDL levels) does that mean your going to hell and dwell in their forwever? If you ate pork whether it was intention or unintential are you going to hell as well? NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

People learn how to prioritize what is important and what is not important. Do you think God is going to get so pissed off at you, that if you forgot prayer, ate pork, or drank alcohol that god is automatically going to send you in hell? The reason why alcohol is prophibitted is also because of its destructive affects in the liver, and the brain, and its addictive properties. Its common sense people! Use common sense, thats all God is asking for. Be mindful and critical of yourself. These are not blind robot orders.

Jebus f*cking chriast.

Meow, I don't really care under what circumstances it was prohibited. This is the first time I have heard of this drunken prayer story actually, and in either case there is no way to know whether or not it is true. The point is that intoxicating drinks are prohibited. As the Quran says, there is some good in it and there is some bad, but the bad out weighs the good.

Do I think drinking is a one way ticket to hell? No, but it doesn't change the fact that it is prohibited. As someone who believes in the Quran as the only source of religious law, I try to follow the rules as well as I can

 

[Verano]

muslims, why don't you answer my questions?

muslims, why are you guys so angry?

muslims, what term do you call non-muslims like jews call non-jews, goyim for plural and goy for singular?

muslims, how come you don't want to befriend a long-hair weirdo like me?
Is having long hair prohibited?

 

[Azih]

muslims, why don't you answer my questions?

Hey look I'm answering them.

muslims, why are you guys so angry?

I'm not angry, stop generalising.

muslims, what term do you call non-muslims like jews call non-jews, goyim for plural and goy for singular?

the term is kaffir (singular) kuffar (plural)

muslims, how come you don't want to befriend a long-hair weirdo like me?
Is having long hair prohibited?

Dude, stop generalising. The only guideline for appearance for Muslims from the Quran is modesty.

 

[Hadji]

Funny...

You should NEVER rely on hadeeths, you should only rely on the Quran as the ultimate record and guidance to conduct your life. I bet none of you have really taken the time to understand the quran, and i mean understanding quran, i dont mean simply reciting, i mean UNDERSTANDING ITS TRANSLATION IN ENGLISH (OR YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE) AND EXPLANATION OF WHAT EACH VERSE MEANS.

Never rely on hadeeths?

Allah (swt) has given his prophets the authority to teach His religion to the people. The hadeeths are the Qur'an are from the same source. Without hadeeth there Islam would cease to exist because you'd toss away twenty-three years of Qur'anic commentary, guidelines, and prohibitions.

It is not me that has a problem with understanding the Qur'an, it is you who does.

Why are you acting like your the ultimate person who knows who is going to hell and heaven? I think you forgot these important verses in the Quran:

Surah Baqarah Verse 62
"Surely those who beleive, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever beleives in Allah and the last Day and does good, they have their reward with their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve"

The verse applies to those who came before the Prophet (pbuh) according to the scholars of Qur'anic commentary.

It is illogical for us to believe that those people are on the correct path for the verse establishes that it isn't the Jews, Christians, and Sabians that will have their reward, but those who believe in Allah and the last days. However, this is not the case at the time of Mohammed (pbuh) since their religions have been fabricated.

Also, according to Ibn Abbas (raa), the Prophet's (pbuh) companion, the verse you quoted is overwritten by the following:

3:85
(And whoever seeks religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers)

Sura Al-Imran Verse 64:
"Say: O people of the book (jews, christians), come to an equitable word between us and you, that we shall sever none but God and that we shall not associate aught with Him, and some of us shall not take others for Lords Besides God. But if they turn away then say: Bear Witness we are muslims"

Seriously?

The verse clearly state that the only was for the people of the book to enter heaven is by becoming Muslims. Firstly, by denouncing those that they associate with Allah, and secondly, as the verse points out, by bearing witness that they are Muslims.

Why you would quote such a verse is beyond me.

Please Hadji, stop with your judgemental cocky crap ass attitude. If you want to proove a point, refer to the Quran. Thanks.

Jebus f*cking chriast.

Your a great example to follow, you know that?

I suggest you create a new account with a different name if you want me to take you seriously.

Where do you get this from?? Perhaps if you stopped to read the Quran you would find both clearly prohibited.

You start to eat pork and drink alcohol since the Qur'an supposedly doesn't directly (according to your standards) prohibit them.

Oh yeah, and I remember why I even brought this up. xD

I know a Qur'ani in university that believes that there isn't enough evidence in the Qur'an to prohibit alcohol...

Is having long hair prohibited?

I have long hair. O__o

 

[MeowMeow]

muslims, why don't you answer my questions?

Dude stop being so demanding.

muslims, why are you guys so angry?

Just shut up please.

muslims, what term do you call non-muslims like jews call non-jews, goyim for plural and goy for singular?

jews (MAN MADE WORD)= yahoodh (arabic + hebrew equivalent of MAN MADE WORD)

christian (MAN MADE WORD)= ansara (arabic + aramiac + hebrew equivalent of MAN MADE WORD)

jews + christians and people of past revelations = people of the book + beleivers in God (Term given exclusively by God)

People of Isreal of Moses and Jesus = Children of Isreal (Bani Isreali) (Term Given by God)

non-believer = kuffar/kaffir

Any jew/christian/muslim/person who beleives in ONE God, his messangers, the unseen, heaven and hell, day of judgement = believer (arabic equivalent is MUSLIM)

*note that christians and jews ARE muslims because a muslim is any person who submits to the will of God, beleives in his messangers, angels, heaven and hell and day of judgment. All messangers are MUSLIMS.

A MUSLIM IS NOT some arab dude who rides cammels and worships muhammad.
The definition of a muslim is a UNIVERSAL MESSAGE that applies to any being that submits to the will of God, not just specific to middle eastern people.

 

[Linkhero1]

*note that christians and jews ARE muslims because a muslim is any person who submits to the will of God, beleives in his messangers, angels, heaven and hell and day of judgment. All messangers are MUSLIMS.

A MUSLIM IS NOT some arab dude who rides cammels and worships muhammad.
The definition of a muslim is a UNIVERSAL MESSAGE that applies to any being that submits to the will of God, not just specific to middle eastern people.

You claim the Jews and Christians believe in the prophets, but you forget the Jews of today don't acknowledge Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or Jesus (as) and Christians of today do not acknowledge Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). They aren't Muslim otherwise they'd be called Muslims now.

 

[Hadji]

You claim the Jews and Christians believe in the prophets, but you forget the Jews of today don't acknowledge Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or Jesus (as) and Christians of today do not acknowledge Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). They aren't Muslim otherwise they'd be called Muslims now.

Thank you!

 

[RiZ III]

You claim the Jews and Christians believe in the prophets, but you forget the Jews of today don't acknowledge Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or Jesus (as) and Christians of today do not acknowledge Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). They aren't Muslim otherwise they'd be called Muslims now.

Not a Muslim belonging to the cult of Islam*, he is talking strictly about the meaning of the word, one who submits.

note: I'm not using 'cult' as a derogatory term here, just using it to refer to a set of beliefs/rituals/traditions.

Edit: Yea Hadji I know there are people within the Quran movement who are a lot more free flowing with the Quranic laws than me, but that is their own decision Funny thing is that my best friend is on the total opposite fence than me when it comes to the Hadith. We've had several discussions/arguments about it (both agreed to disagree eventually). He was brought up in a very 'hadithi' family, but he drinks and has had several relationships while I keep away from both. A person to person thing really.

 

[MeowMeow]

Never rely on hadeeths?

Allah (swt) has given his prophets the authority to teach His religion to the people. The hadeeths are the Qur'an are from the same source. Without hadeeth there Islam would cease to exist because you'd toss away twenty-three years of Qur'anic commentary, guidelines, and prohibitions.

It is not me that has a problem with understanding the Qur'an, it is you who does.

I recall some hadeeth where prophet muhammad said you should stone homosexual or other people doing some sort of deviant behavior, i couldnt recall what hadeeth it was, but it was enough for me to realize that its bullshit and perverted.

The verse applies to those who came before the Prophet (pbuh) according to the scholars of Qur'anic commentary.

It is illogical for us to believe that those people are on the correct path for the verse establishes that it isn't the Jews, Christians, and Sabians that will have their reward, but those who believe in Allah and the last days. However, this is not the case at the time of Mohammed (pbuh) since their religions have been fabricated.

And what part of God and last day do jews and christians and sabians do not beleive in?
God is well aware of the perversions of of christianity, judaism as well as islam of today and he was well aware of the perversions of christianity and judaism at the time of prophet muhammad. Being dismissive of a christians or jews good deed and autmatically condeming to hell because of the tampering of the gospels and torah is not the case with God. Your interpertations are greatly flawed because you rely on some scholar and expert instead of using basic common sense and application towards real life. Why do you need a scholar to understand this verse? I thought the quran was for everyone?

Seriously?

The verse clearly state that the only was for the people of the book to enter heaven is by becoming Muslims. Firstly, by denouncing those that they associate with Allah, and secondly, as the verse points out, by bearing witness that they are Muslims.

Unf*cking believable. That verse is trying to state, that inorder to reduce tensions between christians, jews and muslims, they should come to a common ground so that they can ALL serve God. A win win situation so that no one can loose. A muslim has the right to denounce any other association with God, but that doesnt mean the muslim walks away.

 

[MeowMeow]

You claim the Jews and Christians believe in the prophets, but you forget the Jews of today don't acknowledge Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or Jesus (as) and Christians of today do not acknowledge Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). They aren't Muslim otherwise they'd be called Muslims now.

God never gave them the title "jews and christians" That is a man made word period.
God DOES refer to jews and christians as jews and christians, only because that is what they called themselves. They are actually children of isreal and people of the book.

Surah Al-Imran Verse 65

"O People of the book, why do you dispute about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Do you Not understand?"

Verse 67
"Abraham was not a jew nor christian, but he was an upright man, a muslim, and he was not one of the polythiests"

Any follower who believes in one God whole heartedly is a muslim. The people who were followers of abraham or any other prophet before muhammad is still considered a muslim.

 

[Linkhero1]

God never gave them the title "jews and christians" That is a man made word period.
God DOES refer to jews and christians as jews and christians, only because that is what they called themselves. They are actually children of isreal and people of the book.

Surah Al-Imran Verse 65

"O People of the book, why do you dispute about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Do you Not understand?"

Verse 67
"Abraham was not a jew nor christian, but he was an upright man, a muslim, and he was not one of the polythiests"

Any follower who believes in one God whole heartedly is a muslim. The people who were followers of abraham or any other prophet before muhammad is still considered a muslim.

I agree with you, they're they ones who gave themselves those names. The problem is when they die they'll be asked questions. One will be "What is your Religion" the second will be "Who is your God", the third will be "Who is your Prophet, or What do you think of this man (Muhammad (pbuh))" and "How did you learn about this". The answer to the last question is the "Quran" What do you expect Jews and Christians to answer? How about for the second to last question?

I'm not saying whether they'll go to hell or not. They do submit to God like you say, but the Jews and Christians aren't really Muslims unless they follow the Quran and believe in the Shahadah, which includes BOTH believing in only one God, Allah, and his messenger Muhammad (pbuh), which they aren't don't. They've changed their scripture and made their own names and brought that upon themselves.

To summarize what I'm trying to say, imo they aren't Muslim unless they believe in the Shahada and follow the Quran. I also agree that before they changed their scriptures they WERE Muslims.

 

[CrushDance]

I'm learning so much in this thread, especially the difference between Sunni and Shia. Keep it going guys!

 

[RiZ III]

I agree with you, they're they ones who gave themselves those names. The problem is when they die they'll be asked questions. One will be "What is your Religion" the second will be "Who is your God", the third will be "Who is your Prophet, or What do you think of this man (Muhammad (pbuh))" and "How did you learn about this". The answer to the last question is the "Quran" What do you expect Jews and Christians to answer? How about for the second to last question?
I

You know what people will be asked in the grave?! Impressive, God never revealed this info in the Quran. Of course you're response will be, but it is in the hadith, but neither I or Meow find the sayings in the hadith to be reliable as they were recorded centuries after Muhammad.

 

[MeowMeow]

I agree with you, they're they ones who gave themselves those names. The problem is when they die they'll be asked questions. One will be "What is your Religion" the second will be "Who is your God", the third will be "Who is your Prophet, or What do you think of this man (Muhammad (pbuh))" and "How did you learn about this". The answer to the last question is the "Quran" What do you expect Jews and Christians to answer? How about for the second to last question?

I'm not saying whether they'll go to hell or not. They do submit to God like you say, but the Jews and Christians aren't really Muslims unless they follow the Quran and believe in the Shahadah, which includes BOTH believing in only one God, Allah, and his messenger Muhammad (pbuh), which they aren't don't. They've changed their scripture and brought that upon themselves.

Correct, what ever the divisions, and perversions, the tampering, misinformation, falsehood that the jews and christians have brought upon themselves is THEIR OWN CONCERN and NOT ours. That is why God states in the Quran NOT to get involved in their internal affairs and useless conjectures on what really happened and who is who.
That is why we are to be peace with them and form a common ground so we can all serve God. Peace and serving God is the BEST solution and is highly regarded and rewarded from God. Whatever they are fighting about will be made clear to them when jesus's second return and the day of judgment. Thats all you need to know.

 

[Linkhero1]

You know what people will be asked in the grave?! Impressive, God never revealed this info in the Quran. Of course you're response will be, but it is in the hadith, but neither I or Meow find the sayings in the hadith to be reliable as they were recorded centuries after Muhammad.

I do not care they you guys don't believe in the hadith. It's what I believe. I guess I can't argue with you two then.

Correct, what ever the divisions, and perversions, the tampering, misinformation, falsehood that the jews and christians have brought upon themselves is THEIR OWN CONCERN and NOT ours. That is why God states in the Quran NOT to get involved in their internal affairs and useless conjectures on what really happened and who is who.
That is why we are to be peace with them and form a common ground so we can all serve God. Peace and serving God is the BEST solution and is highly regarded and rewarded from God. Whatever they are fighting about will be made clear to them when jesus's second return and the day of judgment. Thats all you need to know.

I agree.

 

[RiZ III]

I do not care they you guys don't believe in the hadith. It's what I believe. I guess I can't argue with you two then.

Lol. Well yea of course, I'm not saying you should really care, but I was just pointing out that you can't defend the scripture through scripture. You could argue with the hadith, but you would have to bring a convincing argument to show that the hadith are reliable.

 

[Linkhero1]

Lol. Well yea of course, I'm not saying you should really care, but I was just pointing out that you can't defend the scripture through scripture. You could argue with the hadith, but you would have to bring a convincing argument to show that the hadith are reliable.

yeah lol does it matter? WE'RE MUSLIM

 

[MeowMeow]

I'm learning so much in this thread, especially the difference between Sunni and Shia. Keep it going guys!

There isnt suppose to even be a sunni vs shia. Its suppose to be 1 muslim only.
Instead the other people drag on what really happened and use scholarly bullshit information on this and that and blah blah blah. No one cares.

1 muslim period.

 

[RiZ III]

yeah lol does it matter? WE'RE MUSLIM

Well, it doesn't really matter if Hadji believes he needs to grow out his beard, or some one else believes that he needs to lift up their finger while reciting the shahadah, but it does become a problem when people start getting killed because of the hadith(stoning, hanging, shia vs sunni,.. so on)

 

[Linkhero1]

Well, it doesn't really matter if Hadji believes he needs to grow out his beard, or some one else believes that he needs to lift up their finger while reciting the shahadah, but it does become a problem when people start getting killed because of the hadith(stoning, hanging, shia vs sunni,.. so on)

Yeah it does as expected to happen with Religion. Don't expect it to cease anytime soon either.

 

[Linkhero1]

double post XD

 

[Karakand]

christian (MAN MADE WORD)= ansara (arabic + aramiac + hebrew equivalent of MAN MADE WORD)

Isn't it مسيحي?

 

[MeowMeow]

This whole prayer thing pisses me off too. Obviously God prescribed 5x daily prayer as the best means to tone your mind and be mindful of God, as well as facing Kaba. Many dumbass muslims ive talked to state that if you dont pray that way, it doesnt count.

This begs the question, isnt God everywhere? Knows everything? Its not like he sits at the kabaa.

Any form of mindful prayer to God whether you pray out loud or in your mind is heard from God.

At the time of jews and christians, they were instructed to pray a certain way, but whatever that way was before is no longer applicable in islam, so why would God instruct them to pray that way in the first place? Why didnt he instruct them to do 5x daily prayer in the first place?

Here is my answer:

God is flexible in prayer as long as you pray to him no matter where you are or who you are as long as you believe in God whole heartedly.

 

[MeowMeow]

Isn't it مسيحي?

Is that isayh? i dont read arabic that well.

Look at Surah Al-Baqarah Verse 135

Im sure its pronounced An sa ra

Maybe my english spelling is bad.

 

[Hadji]

Here is my answer:

God is flexible in prayer as long as you pray to him no matter where you are or who you are as long as you believe in God whole heartedly.

I was working on a long post before reading this. I'm not going to bother anymore.

 

[MeowMeow]

I was working on a long post before reading this. I'm not going to bother anymore.

As you wish. Keep in mind that when Prophet Muhammad went to see the 7 heavens from the dome of the rock, he met Prophet Moses, and in their discussions they talked about prayer. Prophet Moses recommended 50x per day, but Prophet Muhammad said No,no i know these people, lets keep it at 5. And so it was 5. So if it were not for Prophet Muhammad Hadji, you would be praying 50x per day according to Prophet Moses.
And i am NOT MAKING THIS UP.

 

[Hadji]

As you wish. Keep in mind that when Prophet Muhammad went to see the 7 heavens from the dome of the rock, he met Prophet Moses, and in their discussions they talked about prayer. Prophet Moses recommended 50x per day, but Prophet Muhammad said No,no i know these people, lets keep it at 5. And so it was 5. So if it were not for Prophet Muhammad Hadji, you would be praying 50x per day according to Prophet Moses.
And i am NOT MAKING THIS UP.

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not.

This is a hadeeth and not in the Qur'an... and you still got it completely wrong.

Leave me alone.