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Official Islamic Thread
- Thread starter AmMortal
- Start date
Warrior300 said:
Warrior, you have to remember that both Mohmmad and Jesus are prophets of God. Jesus has the gospels and Mohammad has the Quran. But you have to remember that both Islam and the true Christianity that Jesus preached are religions of peace and not "violent loving religions".
Humiro is starting to read the Quran, he created his own thread about him begining to read the Quran and needing some guidance from fellow muslims. I talk to him occasionally on how his readings are going along, so far he is taking a break from reading it.
My posts actually start on page 15 i think.
What the hell is your avatar about? I liked the sasori avatar better >:-O
My posts actually start on page 15 i think.
What the hell is your avatar about? I liked the sasori avatar better >:-O
MeowMeow said:
Your posts are thoughtful.
What you need to remember about ahadith is that they mostly are misunderstood just like the Qur'an is. Also ahadith aren't all to be taken true, there are weak ones and middle ones and very authentic ones.
So when you said to me "I believe in some", you were doing it the right way, you believe in ahadith, just like you do the Qur'an, your precaustion has made you a person who thinks before acting and Islam is very much centred around that.
You are just like us, we don't take EVERY hadith to be literal truth, we consider some weak.
If they are weak, there is no fault in not doing what they say.
You copy the url in your adress bar and just paste it in your post.
What about the part where i went A BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA BOOOO!!!
:lol
hOPE this works..
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233329
Also what about the person x y z question?
btw was your previous avatar of sasori?
:lolhOPE this works..
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233329
Also what about the person x y z question?
btw was your previous avatar of sasori?
Instigator
Banned
oh, review me too, warrior300! How did I do so far?
MeowMeow said:What about the part where i went A BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA BOOOO!!!
hOPE this works..
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233329
Also what about the person x y z question?
btw was your previous avatar of sasori?
the XYZ was slik
my avatar was of "L" from death note.
MeowMeow said:
Well if you don't believe in Allah Who Created you and Sustains Existence, then your pretty much lost.
In the case of the Christian, they associate with Allah things that can neither harm them nor benefit them. You migh think, why is it so horrible to do this? Why eternal damnation?
Well, here goes:
When you think about it, Allah being Allah can have NO equal in any shape way or form. If he had that would be undermining His G-dhood, for to be Allah, Uniqueness is required, because everything Allah has created is built of something (atoms etc.) Every single thing has an equal and something that is similiar in a way.Just like Allah has Ultimate Power, he has Ultimate Uniqueness, to take that away by saying He has (astagtfirullah) become a man or anything else, is to deny He is Allah. Because a True G-d has no Equal.
MeowMeow said:
o well, then Christian the Buddist are out for a little " tanning" if ya know what I mean.
castle007 said:glad you agree
and the muslim will probably not go to heaven if he doesn't sincerely pray for his sins to be erased.
EXACTLY, being muslim is means to practice Islam not just say it.
Man.....
My thoughts tommorow. i think i have gathered enough information on your guys train of thoughts (your = muslims in this thread other than me)
I think i am pretty much not the norm here, and a different school of thought.
Thats ok..sometimes being different gives a new refreshing perspective.
Castle i agree on his uniqueness of allah thing..i forgot to type "kinda" agree.
sorry.
My thoughts tommorow. i think i have gathered enough information on your guys train of thoughts (your = muslims in this thread other than me)
I think i am pretty much not the norm here, and a different school of thought.
Thats ok..sometimes being different gives a new refreshing perspective.
Castle i agree on his uniqueness of allah thing..i forgot to type "kinda" agree.
sorry.
MeowMeow said:
Akhi(my brother) , there is nothing wrong with having compassion for human beings.
The Christian in your example was better then all of them.
He was the closest you could get to becoming muslim, heck, he was perhaps the only muslim, because the so called "muslim" guy was a hypocrite. The hypocrites are the worst in the site of Allah.
Instigator
Banned
Warrior300 said:
Obvious religious bias aside, do you personally think eternal damnation is fair in this case?
Remember, on the other side, some Christian denominations believe the same fate awaits people the likes of you.
MeowMeow said:
btw, MeowMeow, I am interested in what exactly you are telling Himuro in your conversations. :lol
I think if someone wants to learn more about Islam, he/he should be given the correct perspective and so far we are agreeing on issues that you are disagreeing on. Himuro is going to get confused.
Maybe it is best if he goes to talk to an imam at a mosque. (as long as he is not some crazy wahabi :lol )
Instigator said:
It would be, if the person was told that there is a G-d who Sustain all, and He(remember Islam does not say G-d is male or female) has nothing equal or similar to Him. For in doing that you are denying G-d His right of G-d hood.
And still after all that, the person refuses to believe in G-d being One. G-d does not owe them anything.
Jesus taught the same thing as what his forefathers Isaac, Jacob, Moses tuaght. Paul corrupted the teachings of Jesus, the disciples were angry at him they wanted to kill him and now the world thinks that Paul is right. jesus never said I am G-d he never said for him to be worshipped.
please understand the huge conspiracy that was decided at Nicea by Constantine.
The emperor Constantine needed a way of holding his grip over the population, so he needed a religion that combined both monotheism ( what jesus taught) with pagan traditions of the ancient Greeks and Romans.
Poor Jesus, has been slandered and abused with that which he came to warn the people of.
Instigator said:
if you take remove religion out of this then "fair" becomes more open to interpretation on many issues if you don't know your faith.
That is what happened to the meaning of "fair" in western countries. You take religion out of the equation and you starts drifting from God and start saying:
"is it fair that I got a baby at 16? No it is not, so I am going to give him up for adoption"
And then things like abortion and gay marriage become "fair" in people's eyes.
God says that associating someone else with Him is the worst thing anyone can do. We can't ignore that and start questioning if eternal damnation is "fair" using just human logic without devine law.
Personally, yes I think it is fair. But because I was raised a muslim I know what is fair and what is not, and it makes sense to me.
To you, executing someone for committing murder might not be fair. To me, it is fair.
etc..
i am not the type of person who misguides anyone, i want people to draw their own conclusions...however when i disagree with something.. i am usually reffered to as a 'head banger' i dont really know what that means,..but you will hear what i have to say tommorow, and if not tommorow then the day after.
i have to go do my h.w. now. talk to you guys later.
i have to go do my h.w. now. talk to you guys later.
Instigator
Banned
castle007 said:
Oh yes you can do both. Just because you are a believer and have faith doesn't mean you leave your brain at the door. Most converts aren't simply taught from childhood everything about the Koran, at some point, they had to hear about it, weigh in all this new information and come to agree with it in order to actually convert.
Even a book as thick as the Koran, with thousands interpretations on the side through places and ages, it doesn't cover every eventuality in a fast-changing world. At some point, one has to use his own judgement to decide where to lean. One can still use the Koran as a starting point, of course, but personal judgement still factors in.
I know believers are afraid to question God, but one can still say it looks unfair to me, but maybe God knows something I don't.
I found it interesting that Warrior300's second part of his answer was that, of course, Christians follow a corrupted version of God's word so he doesn't even have to consider their side of the story. It is still a cop-out answer as to whether it is fair if eternal damnation awaits him for simply believing his religion is the real deal.
P.S. There's a weird exchange between God and Abraham in Genesis. Essentially, Abraham bargains with God with what he thinks is fair about the fate of the city or you can interpret it as God testing Abraham, but either way, Abraham can not simply wait for God to tell him what to do, he is actually using his own judgement. Interestingly, that part of the story of Sodom seems to be missing in the Koran.
Instigator said:
No its not,
011.074 When fear had passed from (the mind of) Abraham and the glad tidings had reached him, he began to plead with us for Lut's people.
011.075 For Abraham was, without doubt, forbearing (of faults), compassionate, and given to look to God.
Are you sure you read the Qur'an...?
Karakand said:
True, but it was constantine that institutionlized it and made it the face of Nazaritism, after the counsil he destroyed all of the other gospels that said that Jesus was a man, a beloved prophet of G-d. He kept only those who said that jesus was like hercules i.e in accordance with greek mythology. A.K.A what Paul made.
Instigator
Banned
Warrior300 said:
lol, I checked sources online before posting because I assume the story was largely the same, but the sources disagreed so I had to add that that part was somehow missing. :lol
P.S. Check the edit in my previous post!
Karakand said:
The views on jesus after his message were divided, some said he was divine, others said he was a messenger from G-d. Literally dozens of views were expressed on this matter, what i said in the last post was that constantine ruled out all of the views contradicting to greek mythology and took that which would be easier for his empire to digest.
Don't forget that Paul himself was a bounty hunter to the early Nazarites.
Who do you believe?
Paul (bounty hunter-Roman)
Muhammad(saw) literal blood relative of Jesus himself.
Instigator said:
Nice edit,
i'll read it in the morning though, its 4 am here
and my brain is dead.lolI don't dispute Constantine pushed a very specific branch of Christianity and the Dominate continued to support it for political reasons. I disputed your position that he and his cohort (going back to Paul) were the sole ones that held Christ was divine. (A position you've now backpedaled from it might seem.)Warrior300 said:
I don't believe in either.
I am just dispelling falsehoods (or at the very least, making you substantiate them). This thread is for the removal of ignorance, not continuing it in perpetuity, correct? So far I've seen 2 bad citations of Christian sacred text and misrepresentation of actual history so maybe I was wrong to assume that...
Instigator
Banned
Warrior300 said:
Let me get this straight, you complain about the suppression of competing versions of the story of Jesus, yet are perfectly fine with the single account in the Koran that doesn't match any gospel we know of (so far anyway)? Not only that but you have the gall to complain that Constantine chose parts convenient for his empire, but assume the Koran got all the right, uncorrupted accounts of biblical stories, including the suspiciously convenient switch from Isaac to Ismael (Yimaʿel) as favored son?
How can you use skepticism only when it suits you?
Neither. but if push comes to shove, I'd choose the one who didn't hear voices nor have seizures!
Paul wasn't too smart if he chose to become the new target himself.
Nice edit,
i'll read it in the morning though, its 4 am here
Cool. But beware, it's a trap!
Karakand said:
okay my last post.
Muhammad (saw) was born of Hashim ibn Abd Manaf progenitor of the Bani Hashim clan born of Adnan born of Ishmeal, son of Abraham.
Sorry I'm skipping a lot of names here, I just thought this would be easier (i'm almost dead tired) However, tommorow I will exhibit them all.
So you see, him and jesus date back to the same ancestory.
I'd much rather believe him.
No, it was not Paul and constantine alone, that held jesus divine. But Paul's ideology was the next best thing to Constantine who believed his father to have been a diety.
Found a simple family tree dating Muhammad back to Abraham.
Instigator said:Let me get this straight, you complain about the suppression of competing versions of the story of Jesus, yet are perfectly fine with the single account in the Koran that doesn't match any gospel we know of (so far anyway)? Not only that but you have the gall to complain that Constantine chose parts convenient for his empire, but assume the Koran got all the right, uncorrupted accounts of biblical stories, including the suspiciously convenient switch from Isaac to Ismael (Yimaʿel) as favored son?
How can you use skepticism only when it suits you?
Neither. but if push comes to shove, I'd choose the one who didn't hear voices nor have seizures!
Paul wasn't too smart if he chose to become the new bounty himself.
Cool. But beware, it's a trap!
Firstly, the seizures are another one of those misconception that have been spread. He never acted like that, he was calm. Lies that had been spread by those who hate the islam.
Paul on the other hand had one dream that his fellow companion riding with him didn't see, he claimed things that were unfounded in the ways of the early nazarites.
Saul as he used to be called,aaaah, forget it I'll do it tommorow.
I'm so tired, I have to go now... I can't even reply properly xD