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[SuperAngelo64]

What the hell, I thought Islam's needle was close enough to GAF's mass majority mentality of conforming to anything left field for it to be okay.

Guess I was wrong.

 

[pizzaguysrevenge]

Just for the record, They should've stand up.



I don't think so. There is one real Islam. However, and it is clear to every Muslim that killing yourself no matter what is prohibited.

As for the terrorist groups who claim that what they are doing is Islamic, such as Al-Qaida. What they do is that they take from The Holey Quraan the only parts that serves their twisted goals and, for no appearent reason, ignore other parts, that actually TELLS THEM NOT TO KILL YOURSELF OR NEVER KILL SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T DO ANY HARM TO YOU.

If you take whatever verses from the Holy Book these guys use, and then interpret them alone. You will think that Islam is a blood thirsty dark twisted religion that makes your sole purpose in life is to kill who ever is not a Muslim. But, if you actually study ALL Islam, which means understand everything in the Holy Book, and Hadeeth. You will know that Islam is nothing like that at all.

So why even put the violent parts into the Quran in the first place?

 

[Anaxagoras]

I don't think so. There is one real Islam. However, and it is clear to every Muslim that killing yourself no matter what is prohibited.

As for the terrorist groups who claim that what they are doing is Islamic, such as Al-Qaida. What they do is that they take from The Holey Quraan the only parts that serves their twisted goals and, for no appearent reason, ignore other parts, that actually TELLS THEM NOT TO KILL YOURSELF OR NEVER KILL SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T DO ANY HARM TO YOU.

If you take whatever verses from the Holy Book these guys use, and then interpret them alone. You will think that Islam is a blood thirsty dark twisted religion that makes your sole purpose in life is to kill who ever is not a Muslim. But, if you actually study ALL Islam, which means understand everything in the Holy Book, and Hadeeth. You will know that Islam is nothing like that at all.

Edit what you said before I rip you apart, you can't even prove that Islam is the real [true] religion and you are claiming that your understanding of it is the real one too.

Fighting the NonMuslims is mainly what prophet Mohammed and the Sahaba did throughout their lives, that was their main occupation, even 12 year old nonmuslim kids know that, thats what he lived for, thats mainly what the quran and the sunna is about, and you all of the sudden call this cherry picking verses, the quran is full of it, I bet you haven't read a tenth of the quran yet.

Say what? dying in the name of God is what? Do you know what a Shahed is? Its the highest level you can achieve, it grantees you to live the afterlife in the seventh heaven, the best one of all the heavens, with all the prophets and its only achievable through dying while fighting the nonmuslims.

NO, Islam is nothing like that, right smart ass? tell me, how many people did the prophet Mohammad kill with his own bare hands, and how many more did he cause their death? and why? is it because they were fighting back over their own land? is it because they were worshiping another God? is it because they were drinking alcohol and enjoyed anal sex? let me save your time, the only thing you will be able to do about this fact is justify his actions, just as the Nazis justify Hitlers actions, not more, not less. Islam is not so peaceful all of the sudden, eh?

Advice: Read your Quran before you defend it.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

Wow someone is mad :lol .

I find it funny how most of the Muslims in here are so damn sure about their views and understandings of Islam as if there is no other possible interpretation but theirs.
Go study some Arabic and attend a quranic school before you answer other peoples questions by suger coating Islam, and always remember to answer questions by '' I believe that this this this means that that that hence bla bla bla '' and do not make definite claims about what is islamic and what isn't without having read the Quran and by just recalling what your parents told you.

I AM Arabic, and I HAVE studied the Quran and Islam all my life. And when I am "suger coating Islam", it's not because someone told me. I'm doing so because that's what I'm living right now. I just want people to know that Islam isn't just killing and hating and what not. That dark picture you have in your head is exactly what make people hate Islam.

There are versus in the Quran that asks muslims to kill the nonmuslims where ever they find them, in earlier parts of the quran when Islam wasn't as dominant in the region, it asks the followers to treat nonmuslims as ~friends and with tolerance and patience.
At this point the Quran is asking muslims two different things, and here is where your own understanding of Islam plays role, clerics claim that when God asked the muslims to fight the nonmuslims it was because they were at a religious war, jihad, some people believe that Islam is being attacked today by Israel and the west and thus do what god asked them to do in the quran.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say.
For someone who didn't study Islam. He would think that this is a contradiction, hence anyone can interpret the Quran in any way they want. But this isn't the case. Further studying for this particular matter (to kill or not to kill non-Muslims), which would require you to look for Hadith and other things, it would become clear to you that there is in fact a rule that tells when to kill, and when killing is completely prohibited. For example if you are in a war, and you ARE fighting with the enemy, it is ok to kill. Whether if you are not in a war, and you are surrounded by non Muslims. It is completely prohibited to kill them.

Long story short. You may think there are contradictions in the Holy Book. But EVERYTHING, I say EVERYTHING is detailed if you study the matter further by reading what prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, had to say about it. And then, ask who are know more about Islam. And eventually, you will know, that every contradiction you thought there was is Quraan is detailed and explained much better.

Which moves us to my point about the likes of Al-Qaida. They DON'T bother studying Islam. As I said, all they care about is their twisted goals. Then they try to cover it by saying "WE ARE DOING WHAT ISLAM IS TELLING US TO DO". And they bring whatever verses from Quran without looking into the matter to back them up.

And yes, Islam is a violent religion, proof? read the quran, for example: verse 4:34 in the Quran, God orders men to beat their wives if they rebel them, now its up to the reader to do the interpretation and what is meant by beat and rebel, beat with a chainsaw or a pillow, rebel as in refuse to take order or cheat on the husband.

:lol Again, you just took that verse without actually looking for what it really meant. First of all, you're saying "beat with a chainsaw or a pillow" and that is not true by all means. If you studied that matter further, and looked up what our prophet had to say about this, you wouldn't say what you said. Beat her doesn't mean HARM her. It more like.... Gah, I really don't know how to explain it in English :lol . But most important thing is that YOU DON'T HURT your wife, or any woman you know. Actually, hurting your wife is prohibited.

Now, I know that you have your own prospective or theory about what Islam really is. And I might not have the ability to convince you to change your mind. But all I ask of you is not take Islam in such a dark and shallow way.

Advice: Study Islam before you attack it.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

So why even put the violent parts into the Quran in the first place?

You mean the parts that tells you to fight and kill you enemies? Well, if you were under attack, you HAVE to defend yourself don't you.
Also, These parts gives you a good idea about the different situations, where killing is prohibited or allowed.

 

[pizzaguysrevenge]

You mean the parts that tells you to fight and kill you enemies? Well, if you were under attack, you HAVE to defend yourself don't you.
Also, These parts gives you a good idea about the different situations, where killing is prohibited or allowed.

There are plenty of verses in the Quran that tell you to harm innocent people. Don't act like there aren't.

I was raised Muslim and went to Sunday school every week for three years. You can't bullshit me.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

There are plenty of verses in the Quran that tell you to harm innocent people. Don't act like there aren't.

enlighten me.

I was raised Muslim and went to Sunday school every week for three years. You can't bullshit me.

What is this Sunday school you're talking about?

 

[neorej]

:lol Again, you just took that verse without actually looking for what it really meant. First of all, you're saying "beat with a chainsaw or a pillow" and that is not true by all means. If you studied that matter further, and looked up what our prophet had to say about this, you wouldn't say what you said. Beat her doesn't mean HARM her. It more like.... Gah, I really don't know how to explain it in English :lol . But most important thing is that YOU DON'T HURT your wife, or any woman you know. Actually, hurting your wife is prohibited.

So beating is permitted, as long as you don't hurt her...

And people wonder why muslims are confused...

 

[pizzaguysrevenge]

enlighten me.

Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Qur'an (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

What is this Sunday school you're talking about?

Getting sent to Mosque for five hours every Sunday to learn about Islam. It's supposed to make you more religious.

Thank God it didn't work.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Wow someone is mad :lol .

I AM Arabic, and I HAVE studied the Quran and Islam all my life. And when I am "suger coating Islam", it's not because someone told me. I'm doing so because that's what I'm living right now. I just want people to know that Islam isn't just killing and hating and what not. That dark picture you have in your head is exactly what make people hate Islam.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say.
For someone who didn't study Islam. He would think that this is a contradiction, hence anyone can interpret the Quran in any way they want. But this isn't the case. Further studying for this particular matter (to kill or not to kill non-Muslims), which would require you to look for Hadith and other things, it would become clear to you that there is in fact a rule that tells when to kill, and when killing is completely prohibited. For example if you are in a war, and you ARE fighting with the enemy, it is ok to kill. Whether if you are not in a war, and you are surrounded by non Muslims. It is completely prohibited to kill them.

You are peeing on your own feet now, you just admitted that when at a religious war its ok for muslims to kill non muslims, but before we get in to that, I like to point out how you used the word ''OK'' in ''then its ok to kill nonmuslims'' instead of saying that Allah asks you as a muslims who has submitted his life to him to do your duty and fight the nonmuslim.

Now that you have admitted yourself that it is Islamic to kill nonmuslims at a religious war, can you finish the job by being clear about what is a religious war? what defines a religious war? and are we at a religious right now?

Long story short. You may think there are contradictions in the Holy Book. But EVERYTHING, I say EVERYTHING is detailed if you study the matter further by reading what prophet Mohammad, peace be upon him, had to say about it. And then, ask who are know more about Islam. And eventually, you will know, that every contradiction you thought there was is Quraan is detailed and explained much better.

Which moves us to my point about the likes of Al-Qaida. They DON'T bother studying Islam. As I said, all they care about is their twisted goals. Then they try to cover it by saying "WE ARE DOING WHAT ISLAM IS TELLING US TO DO". And they bring whatever verses from Quran without looking into the matter to back them up.

Source on that?
Keep your silly theories to yourself, they know Islam more than you and the whole generation that will come from you will ever know about Islam.

:lol Again, you just took that verse without actually looking for what it really meant. First of all, you're saying "beat with a chainsaw or a pillow" and that is not true by all means. If you studied that matter further, and looked up what our prophet had to say about this, you wouldn't say what you said. Beat her doesn't mean HARM her. It more like.... Gah, I really don't know how to explain it in English :lol . But most important thing is that YOU DON'T HURT your wife, or any woman you know. Actually, hurting your wife is prohibited.

So now its me that doesn't know what it means, your poor english didn't allow you to understand what I meant fully, what I meant was is that different people interpret beating in a way that it can go as far as extreme physical abuse without causing death or handicaps, others sugar coat the verse like you do and claim that you only are allowed to beat with only something as light as a pellow or a feather.

Now, I know that you have your own prospective or theory about what Islam really is. And I might not have the ability to convince you to change your mind. But all I ask of you is not take Islam in such a dark and shallow way.

Advice: Study Islam before you attack it.

Who are you fouling dude? ex-muslim here

 

[Anaxagoras]

You mean the parts that tells you to fight and kill you enemies? Well, if you were under attack, you HAVE to defend yourself don't you.
Also, These parts gives you a good idea about the different situations, where killing is prohibited or allowed.

Ah, so Islam was spread and reached parts of Spain in self-defense mode, did i get that one right?

 

[Linkhero1]

When does Ramadan officially start? I'm seeing so many different dates.

This will be my first Ramadan.

I am not 100% sure yet, but I've heard August 22nd.

 

[Anaxagoras]

When does Ramadan officially start? I'm seeing so many different dates.

This will be my first Ramadan.

Ramadan will start on Friday, the 21st of August and will continue for 30 days until Saturday, the 19th of September.

This is not 100%, (+-) ~1 day

 

[SmokyDave]

Ah, so Islam was spread and reached parts of Spain in self-defense mode, did i get that one right?

"Islam has bloody borders" - Samuel P. Huntington.

 

[SuperAngelo64]

When does Ramadan officially start? I'm seeing so many different dates.

This will be my first Ramadan.

Aug 21 - Sep 18

 

[activatethesmile]

So why even put the violent parts into the Quran in the first place?

I think the main problem here is that people who are trying to make Al-Qur'an look some sort of "barbaric handbook of how to bash head with an axe" are always using verses or quotes from the holy book that may seem violent without even bothering to look on the context of those verses/quotes.

And even if when put in context the verses/quotes may still appear to be violent, then I say, so what? It is simply a reality of this world that there are certain problems that cannot be solved simply by sugar-coated words and nice behaviors. Sometimes, violence is the correct answer to stuff, regardless of what 'idealism' people say on the matter. I think a display of violence is sometimes perfect to best illustrate "Look dude, if you fuck up so bad, then YOU'RE going to be fucked up as well."

*DISCLAIMER*: Please don't think of me as an expert of Islam or what I said is what Islam is. This is just my opinion.

Edit: In Indonesia (southeast Asia) Ramadhan will begin in August 20th.

 

[SuperAngelo64]

And even if when put in context the verses/quotes may still appear to be violent, then I say, so what? It is simply a reality of this world that there are certain problems that cannot be solved simply by sugar-coated words and nice behaviors. Sometimes, violence is the correct answer to stuff, regardless of what 'idealism' people say on the matter. I think a display of violence is sometimes perfect to best illustrate "Look dude, if you fuck up so bad, then YOU'RE going to be fucked up as well."

SHH! That's not PC enough!!!

Spoiler

I agree.

 

[pizzaguysrevenge]

SHH! That's not PC enough!!!

Spoiler

I agree.

Believe in my God or I'll kill you!

Yeah, that definitely sounds like a religion I'd like to follow.

I'd rather go to hell than spend eternity in heaven with a bunch of pricks who think it's okay to kill people for their beliefs.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

You are peeing on your own feet now, you just admitted that when at a religious war its ok for muslims to kill non muslims, but before we get in to that, I like to point out how you used the word ''OK'' in ''then its ok to kill nonmuslims'' instead of saying that Allah asks you as a muslims who has submitted his life to him to do your duty and fight the nonmuslim.

Now that you have admitted yourself that it is Islamic to kill nonmuslims at a religious war, can you finish the job by being clear about what is a religious war? what defines a religious war? and are we at a religious right now?

First of all, when I say "War". I simply mean war. You know, when two countries use military to kill and destroy and conqure and what not. I never said religious war. I'm not even sure what you mean by that.

are we at a religious right now?

The place where I live isn't in anykind of war. Which means I'm not allowed to rebel against my country and my leader and start killing non-muslims in the name of Islam. However, there are other places, where Muslims are being fought. Those guys should fight in the name of Jihad.

I like to point out how you used the word ''OK'' in ''then its ok to kill nonmuslims'' instead of saying that Allah asks you as a muslims who has submitted his life to him to do your duty and fight the nonmuslim.

Is this what thy call a play of words? I think you knew what I meant.

So now its me that doesn't know what it means, your poor english didn't allow you to understand what I meant fully, what I meant was is that different people interpret beating in a way that it can go as far as extreme physical abuse without causing death or handicaps, others sugar coat the verse like you do and claim that you only are allowed to beat with only something as light as a pellow or a feather.

Okay, I know that people can interpret it that way. But as I keep saying, unless you actually look further into the matter and see what the prophet had to say about it, you never know. Which is why most people think this religion is violent and full of contradictions.

@ pizzaguysrevenge the problem is, no matter how hard I'm going to explain those verses to you, and what they actually supposed to mean, I don't think you will change your mind. However if you really want to know about the meanings of these verses, I'll try and talk to someone (with very good English and knowledge of Islam) that can tell you everything you need.

 

[Anaxagoras]

And even if when put in context the verses/quotes may still appear to be violent, then I say, so what? It is simply a reality of this world that there are certain problems that cannot be solved simply by sugar-coated words and nice behaviors. Sometimes, violence is the correct answer to stuff, regardless of what 'idealism' people say on the matter. I think a display of violence is sometimes perfect to best illustrate "Look dude, if you fuck up so bad, then YOU'RE going to be fucked up as well."

You guys never fail at making me laugh ^^
So you couldn't prove that Islam is not a violent religion, which you do claim that it is, so you went on to the next step which is to defend violence.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

Nizar, do you read Arabic?

 

[SuperAngelo64]

Believe in my God or I'll kill you!

Yeah, that definitely sounds like a religion I'd like to follow.

I'd rather go to hell than spend eternity in heaven with a bunch of pricks who think it's okay to kill people for their beliefs.

You're so progressive! All the alternative community college chicks who spend all day reading GAF are totally going to want your number now, broseph.

 

[Anaxagoras]

First of all, when I say "War". I simply mean war. You know, when two countries use military to kill and destroy and conqure and what not. I never said religious war. I'm not even sure what you mean by that.

religious war = Jihad, even rednecks know that one.

The place where I live isn't in anykind of war. Which means I'm not allowed to rebel against my country and my leader and start killing non-muslims in the name of Islam. However, there are other places, where Muslims are being fought. Those guys should fight in the name of Jihad.

HAHA
I love you man, you are one smart kid, you really get it faster than i thought you would.
So you first said its ok to kill nonmuslims at war, and now you say that there are places were muslims are being faught and those guys fight in the name of jihad [Allah].

Conclusion: It is Islamic

Is this what thy call a play of words? I think you knew what I meant.

Okay, I know that people can interpret it that way. But as I keep saying, unless you actually look further into the matter and see what the prophet had to say about it, you never know. Which is why most people think this religion is violent and full of contradictions.

I will let this one pass, this time only though.

 

[pizzaguysrevenge]

You're so progressive! All the alternative community college chicks who spend all day reading GAF are totally going to want your number now, broseph.

Are you seriously mocking me because I think it's wrong to hurt people just because they don't believe in the same God as you?

Are you fucking retarded?

 

[Anaxagoras]

Are you seriously mocking me because I think it's wrong to hurt people just because they don't believe in the same God as you?

Are you fucking retarded?

Ask those self proclaimed Islam defenders, if there was a time under the prophet Mohammad's ruling where the citizens of mecca were forced to convert to Islam or be killed.

Nizar, do you read Arabic?

Yes I do, fluently.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

HAHA
I love you man, you are one smart kid, you really get it faster than i thought you would.
So you first said its ok to kill nonmuslims at war, and now you say that there are places were muslims are being faught and those guys fight in the name of jihad [Allah].

You do realize that Islam isn't one big country anymore right? Every country has it's own leader/king/president that you HAVE to obey. My country's leader is saying that we are not in war. The king of this country is telling me that I can't go fight in the name of Islam, that I can't go for Jihad. And I have to listen to him, because Islam tells you too. And he believes me going to kill non-Muslims (Solders/innocent) is bad for my country and my people. And he is right (look at those terrorists, and how they managed to make trash Islam and all it stand for).

Other countries, however, declared war. And those guy can go for Jihad. And Jihad doesn't mean killing innocent people, but fighting solders who are fighting you.

its ok to kill nonmuslims at war

nonmuslims = soldiers.

 

[Anaxagoras]

You do realize that Islam isn't one big country anymore right? Every country has it's own leader/king/president that you HAVE to obey. My country's leader is saying that we are not in war. The king of this country is telling me that I can't go fight in the name of Islam, that I can't go for Jihad. And I have to listen to him, because Islam tells you too. And he believes me going to kill non-Muslims (Solders/innocent) is bad for my country and my people. And he is right (look at those terrorists, and how they managed to make trash Islam and all it stand for).

So now you follow a monarchic version of Islam, its not the prophets legacy and the quran that count now but its the king that decides in the name of god, once again, who choose that king to rule and decide in the name of Islam? and what if the king is a nonmuslim?

Let me put it simply for you:

[1] Is Islam at war with Israel?
[2] Is fighting the Israelis considered Jihad?
[3] Are Muslims asked to do the Jihad?
[4] Is dying while fighting the Israelis in the name of God Islamic?

enough playing around already, be straight forward in your answers.

Other countries, however, declared war. And those guy can go for Jihad. And Jihad doesn't mean killing innocent people, but fighting solders who are fighting you.


nonmuslims = soldiers.

Yeah, the defense mode again, play it on someone else, as I said earlier, there is no way that Islam could have spread all over that region and reach parts of Europe only by attacking soldiers who attacked them.

 

[Gomu Gomu]

Guys, back in the day, when Mohammad Peace be upon him was trying to spread Islam across the world is VERY VERY different from now. You have to consider that. After he founded Islam as a country, there were non-muslims living in Al-Madinah. And they were never killed or harrased. Actually, Muhammad Peace be upon him visited his Jewish next door naboughr to check up on him. THIS IS what Islam is about.

For Nizar:

وأردف قائلا: إن ديننا الإسلامي الحنيف سمته الظاهرة ولبناته السامقة وبصماته الواضحة كما جاء في قوله عز وجل ( وما أرسلناك إلا رحمة للعالمين ), وينهى عن أي فعل يؤذي الآمنين الأبرياء. مستشهدا بقوله تعالى ((ينهاكم الله عن الذين لم يقاتلوكم في الدين ولم يخرجوكم من دياركم أن تبروهم وتقسطوا إليهم أن الله يحب المقسطين ).. موضحا أن الآية الكريمة تحث على العدل والإقساط إلى غير المسلمين الذين لم يقاتلوا المسلمين في الدين ولم يخرجوهم من ديارهم وتحث على البر بهم والإحسان إليهم.

وقال:" ولذلك يقول الرسول الكريم عليه الصلاة والسلام في بيان من جاء إلى ديار المسلمين مسالما مستأمنا (( من آذى ذميا فقد آذاني ومن أذاني فقد أذى الله ) رواه الطبراني في الأوسط بإسناد جيد.. كما قال عليه الصلاة والسلام (( من آذى ذميا فانا خصمه ومن كنت خصمه خصمته يوم القيامة )) رواه الخطيب وبإسناد حسن، ويقول أيضا عليه الصلاة والسلام ( من ظلم معاهدا أو أنقصه حقا أو كلفه فوق طاقته أو أخذ منه شيئا بغير طيب نفس منه، فأنا حجيجه يوم القيامة )) رواه أبو داؤد.

http://www.nabanews.net/2009/17993.html

These clearly state that killing innocent non Muslims is not Islamic.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Your hadiths says that Muslims are not supposed to fight nonmuslims unless they faught the muslims through their religion or by invading their land and kicking them from their homes.

Quick question wise man:
Is any of this happening in Palestine? Afghanistan? Kosovo? Somalia? Iraq?

If your answer is yes then what Alqaida, Hizbulla and Hammas are doing is 100% Islamic.

 

[SmokyDave]

These clearly state that killing innocent non Muslims is not Islamic.

Define innocent....

 

[Anaxagoras]

Define innocent....

That's exactly what I mean and exactly what this guy is refusing to understand, we interpret things differently, and the poetic nature of the language adds more to that factor.

God failed at being clear when he sent the Quran, his carelessness has caused the death of millions of people till this very day.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

GAF and religion :lol Surprised anyone would be brave enough to make a thread based on a religion here of all places

 

[Kipz]

That's exactly what I mean and exactly what this guy is refusing to understand, we interpret things differently, and the poetic nature of the language adds more to that factor.

God failed at being clear when he sent the Quran, his carelessness has caused the death of millions of people till this very day.

Omnipotent, Omniscient being was careless?

Wow.

 

[DarkWish]

Honestly, the lengths some people go to are ridiculous. Some people act like their life goal is to prove that Muslims are killers (which is obviously ridiculous). Get a life.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Honestly, the lengths some people go to are ridiculous. Some people act like their life goal is to prove that Muslims are killers (which is obviously ridiculous). Get a life.

My goal is not to prove that Muslims are killers and I personally don not believe that they are.

I am just tiered of people sugar coating Islam.

 

[DarkWish]

My goal is not to prove that Muslims are killers and I personally don not believe that they are.

I am just tiered of people sugar coating Islam.

And yet you are so desperately looking for reasons to prove that Muslims are killers.

Whatever. I'm not getting into this ridiculous discussion. Have fun.

 

[SmokyDave]

And yet you are so desperately looking for reasons to prove that Muslims are killers.

Whatever. I'm not getting into this ridiculous discussion. Have fun.

To be fair, as an outsider, it appears to me that the group that spends most time persecuting / killing muslims is other muslims.

 

[Anaxagoras]

And yet you are so desperately looking for reasons to prove that Muslims are killers.

Whatever. I'm not getting into this ridiculous discussion. Have fun.

Read before you criticize, pointing out that Islam is a violent religion is not the same thing as claiming that muslims are killers.

To be fair, as an outsider, it appears to me that the group that spends most time persecuting / killing muslims is other muslims.

What did you mean by that? its either getting really late here [3:00 PM] or what you meant didnt get across as you wanted it to.

 

[SmokyDave]

What did you mean by that? its either getting really late here [3:00 PM] or what you meant didnt get across as you wanted it to.

I meant if I were a muslim, I'd expect that if I had a bloody death, it would come at the hands of another muslim. IE; Sunni vs Shia. Daughter vs Father, that kind of thing.

Sorry if it wasn't clear.

 

[wRATH2x]

Ramadan will start on Friday, the 21st of August and will continue for 30 days until Saturday, the 19th of September.

This is not 100%, (+-) ~1 day

Yeah it starts on the 22nd here.

 

[Instigator]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,640393,00.html

Muslims Angered by Verse in German Soccer Club Song

The verse "Muhammad Was a Prophet Who Knows Nothing About Football" in the official song of German soccer club Schalke 04 has sparked more than 100 complaints from Muslims. The club says it's looking into the matter.

German Bundesliga soccer club Schalke 04 has received more than 100 complaints from Muslims about its club song which contains the verse: "Muhammad was a Prophet who knows nothing about football."

The song with the title "White and Blue, How I Love You" has been around for decades but only recently came to the attention of Turkish media which said it insults the Prophet.

Muslims are now demanding that the offending line be struck from the song, which is chanted by Schalke's fans before every match.

The management of the club, based in the western town of Gelsenkirchen in the industrial Ruhr region, is concerned about the complaints and says it is consulting an expert on Islam.

It's unclear why the song contains the reference to Muhammad given that the rest of the lyrics focus on the beauty of the team colors white and blue and on the fact that Schalke will never die.

"The song is age old. Both sides should sit down and discuss this, we're all sensible people," Schalke's former manager Rudi Assauer told the mass circulationBild newspaper.

Shalke has established itself as one of the dominant clubs in the German football in recent years, capturing the German Cup two years in a row in 2001 and 2002. It earned second place in the Bundesliga in 2001, 2005 and 2007, allowing the team to compete in the Champions League.

 

[Prine]

Your hadiths says that Muslims are not supposed to fight nonmuslims unless they faught the muslims through their religion or by invading their land and kicking them from their homes.

Quick question wise man:
Is any of this happening in Palestine? Afghanistan? Kosovo? Somalia? Iraq?

If your answer is yes then what Alqaida, Hizbulla and Hammas are doing is 100% Islamic.

You dont learn to fight something that yours, its innate. Religion/belief/experience apply some control over this.

If I took your home, what would you do? Are you violent because you retaliate?

 

[Chrono]

Define innocent....

Certainly not good people defending their countries from an islamic invasion.

I remember this wonderful hadith I was told when I was a kid asking about islamic invasions - that the prophet told his goons to never do as much as tear a plant from the earth.... while invading a foreign people, killing their youth, taking slaves and women and treasure, and then enforce islam and eradicate their culture. Oh, the mercy of islam! Those invasion are glorified today in all muslim countries, they weep for the loss of spain and still insist that rome will be next to fall. Given their pathetic state though they've changed their tune to a 'peaceful' takeover of rome, times have changed is what I hear.

Think about this when muslims complain of anything from the crusades to the iraq war (conflicts btw that are viewed very, very differently and critically in the west/non-muslim world unlike how muslims view their entire history and culture and anything relating to themselves and islam).

 

[Anaxagoras]

You dont learn to fight something that yours, its innate. Religion/belief/experience apply some control over this.

If I took your home, what would you do? Are you violent because you retaliate?

You guys were claiming that Islam is a peaceful religion and insisted that what the Al-qaida and the other terrorist organizations are doing is not Islamic, I proved otherwise by using your own words, period.

How you justify violence is separate discussion, and to be honest i am not very interested in knowing that.

There is a great difference between property invasion and the attack of religion, the American troops existence in Iraq is considered property invasion, they are killing muslim men women and children, leaving a lot more homeless, destroying the culture and are stealing the oil, the same applies to Afghanistan and Israel.

Now the attack of religion is the more extreme one, it can be be as little as a statement from the pope or George Bush, for example when he said that the war on Iraq is a crusade war, or the danish cartoons for example.

According to Islam if this happened you are asked as a muslim to do your duty and fight and kill the nonmuslims.

Now please don't let me get further into Sharia punishments, specially the part about adultery and homosexuality.

 

[activatethesmile]

You guys never fail at making me laugh ^^
So you couldn't prove that Islam is not a violent religion, which you do claim that it is, so you went on to the next step which is to defend violence.

Really? Defend violence? All I'm saying that violence is sometimes necessary to wrap things up the way it should be wrapped. Islam is not a violent religion in that it does not condone doing violent things crazily without any reasoning; it simply teaches that violence are sometimes required to handle a particular problem (like if when your life being danger because someone is attacking you, than you have all the right to defend yourself by using violence if necessary.) Islam just points that it is what it is, that the reality of the world is not all candies and rainbows.

Or are you one of those naive people that see all the problems in the world can be solved completely only with a nice smile, a warm handshake, and a gift from Santa?

People like you... nah, nevermind.

I remember this wonderful hadith I was told when I was a kid asking about islamic invasions - that the prophet told his goons to never do as much as tear a plant from the earth.... while invading a foreign people, killing their youth, taking slaves and women and treasure, and then enforce islam and eradicate their culture. Oh, the mercy of islam! Those invasion are glorified today in all muslim countries, they weep for the loss of spain and still insist that rome will be next to fall. Given their pathetic state though they've changed their tune to a 'peaceful' takeover of rome, times have changed is what I hear.

What hadits? Oh I remember now. The hadits as told by Mr. Bullshit bin Bullshit bin Bullshit Alaihissalam. Yeah, that's the one.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Really? Defend violence? All I'm saying that violence is sometimes necessary to wrap things up the way it should be wrapped. Islam is not a violent religion in that it does not condone doing violent things crazily without any reasoning; it simply teaches that violence are sometimes required to handle a particular problem (like if when your life being danger because someone is attacking you, than you have all the right to defend yourself by using violence if necessary.) Islam just points that it is what it is, that the reality of the world is not all candies and rainbows.

Or are you one of those naive people that see all the problems in the world can be solved completely only with a nice smile, a warm handshake, and a gift from Santa?

People like you... nah, nevermind.

You are totally right dude, what the fuck was I thinking? it is very reasonable to stone women that commit adultery to death, the same applies to throwing homosexuals off the highest cliff, specially those who leave Islam, they must be beheaded.

Now that you have managed to justify some of the violence that Islam preaches on I am more than glad to return to Islam.

 

[Prine]

You are totally right dude, what the fuck was I thinking? it is very reasonable to stone women that commit adultery to death, the same applies to throwing homosexuals off the highest cliff, specially those who leave Islam, they must be beheaded.

Now that you have managed to justify some of the violence that Islam preaches on I am more than glad to return to Islam.

Yes ofcourse, i see this happen at my mosque all the time. Your one of those that looks for the worst of everything. Almost as nutty as a religous dude looking at the worst of people with no belief as an example for the masses.

 

[Anaxagoras]

Yes ofcourse, i see this happen at my mosque all the time. Your one of those that looks for the worst of everything. Almost as nutty as a religous dude looking at the worst of people with no belief as an example for the masses.

This is Sharia and Jihad, these are two very important parts of Islam smart ass and not observations made about some muslims behaviors, its your duty as a muslim to do the jihad and to establish, support and defend the Sharia.

At least there is some progress here, you now admit that it is part of Islam, so what the Alqaida, Hammas, and hizbulla are doing and the stoning and the beheading that is done in the muslim world is Islamic.

 

[Anaxagoras]

A quick advice to you muslim guys in here, go read the quran properly before you defend it, its nothing like what your parents told you about it when you were kids.

 

[activatethesmile]

You are totally right dude, what the fuck was I thinking? it is very reasonable to stone women that commit adultery to death, the same applies to throwing homosexuals off the highest cliff, specially those who leave Islam, they must be beheaded.

Now that you have managed to justify some of the violence that Islam preaches on I am more than glad to return to Islam.

http://i29.tinypic.com/bjg08j.jpg

This is Sharia and Jihad, these are two very important parts of Islam smart ass and not observations made about some muslims behaviors, its your duty as a muslim to do the jihad and to establish, support and defend the Sharia.

At least there is some progress here, you now admit that it is part of Islam, so what the Alqaida, Hammas, and hizbulla are doing and the stoning and the beheading that is done in the muslim world is Islamic.

I just simply don't see how the things I said in my previous post suggests that acts such as stoning women committing adultery, throwing homosexuals off the cliff (WTF Dude?), and beheading those who are leaving Islam are reasonable. The fact that you are arriving at that kind of conclusion clearly suggests that you are so heavily, and boy do I mean so heavily prejudiced against Islam that you are simply refusing to hear what you don't want to hear about it, and jump at the very first chance you can get to sully its name even if it means using conclusion derived from such a stupid misinterpretation. What a smartass (hohoho).

Sharia and Jihad are two very important part of Islam, yes, that part I won't (and can't) deny. But saying that Sharia and Jihad are synonymous to some serious fucktard blowing himself up or some retard 'throwing homosexuals off the cliff' (again, WTF?) is... well... is something only a smartass (hohoho) would say.

Only one thing in your post screams the truth, and that is

Which is most appropriate for you and you only, Dude.

A quick advice to you muslim guys in here, go read the quran properly before you defend it, its nothing like what your parents told you about it when you were kids.