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[Instigator]

yes, a few Muslim members have been banned previously stating what Islam states about apostates.

Without quoting it (since you're scared of the ban stick), do you condone it?

 

[Zapages]

Without quoting it (since you're scared of the ban stick), do you condone it?

If I can get unjuniored and no harm will come to my account here ie. getting banned. Then I will answer it.

Actually if you want to search my posts, you might be able to find my view point.

 

[Instigator]

Well, I don't condone it.

See, I'm still posting.

 

[Zapages]

Well, I don't condone it.

See, I'm still posting.

are you Muslim here. :| As I said you'll find my answer if you search through my posts.

 

[RustyNails]

There is no compulsion in religion.

That line is straight from Quran, all other hadiths are superseded by Quran. Quran also doesn't prescribe punishment for apostasy. Instead it describes apostates and hypocrites' state of affairs on earth.

 

[Instigator]

are you Muslim here. :| As I said you'll find my answer if you search through my posts.

Sorry, the search feature is wonky.

But I don't need to be Muslim to think the emphasis on charity is a good thing in Islam. The reverse is true when it comes to the treatment of apostates.

 

[Zapages]

Sorry, the search feature is wonky.

But I don't need to be Muslim to think the emphasis on charity is a good thing in Islam. The reverse is true when it comes to the treatment of apostates.

*sigh* Its just that I don't feel like repeating myself. Why is it so important to you what I believe in? Let me live my life with whatever I believe in.

I might give you an answer that you would like to hear. But in actuality I might not even believe in that. So why is my view so important to you or anyone else, except for God?

If you really want to know what I think.... Should apostates be killed, of course no because killing anyone is like killing the whole humanity. So there you have it.

I am hear to have good time instead of talking or debating of things that will not effect anyone in the world. Unless I am able to effect the view of people on here and make the people's view better for Muslims then its good. If not then I don't feel like getting in all these debates.

 

[RustyNails]

*sigh* Its just that I don't feel like repeating myself. Why is it so important to you what I believe in? Let me live my life with whatever I believe in.

I might give you an answer that you would like to hear. But in actuality I might not even believe in that. So why is my view so important to you or anyone else, except for God?

If you really want to know what I think.... Should apostates be killed, of course no because killing anyone is like killing the whole humanity. So there you have it.

I am hear to have good time instead of talking or debating of things that will not effect anyone in the world. Unless I am able to effect the view of people on here and make the people's view better for Muslims then its good. If not then I don't feel like getting in all these debates.

Jeez dude just quote the Quran and be done with it

 

[Zapages]

Jeez dude just quote the Quran and be done with it

Fellow Muslims have been banned for quoting the Holy Quran. I am not joking on this part as we all know the answer to the question. Its one of those trap questions.

 

[Instigator]

See, it wasn't so hard.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

There is no compulsion in religion.

That line is straight from Quran, all other hadiths are superseded by Quran. Quran also doesn't prescribe punishment for apostasy. Instead it describes apostates and hypocrites' state of affairs on earth.

The Quran also commands to follow the Sunnah, and therefore to avoid such conflict of views in this particular context, the verse of no compulsion in religion is said to relate to non-Muslims, but that in turn opens up a series of other questions. Authentic hadiths are used assupplements to scripture and are presented so as to not conflict. If they appear to, the advice given is that context may be different

Regardless of peoples personal stance on it, the accepted position is that Apostasy is a capital offence, as it once was originally cited in The Bible. I say that in response to those who can't acknowledge that God, at least at one point, introduced the sentence

 

[Zapages]

my friend posted this... Kawii anime characters as nuns and Muslim girls. :lol

 

[Zapages]

Eid Mubarak everyone!!! It sucks that I have to go to school tomorrow.

 

[d[-_-]b]

Eid mubarak guys, but here atleast at the mosque I called its not till tommorow

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Sorry for bumping this thread, but generally speaking, is there a difference between Sunni and Shia men when it comes to how they grow their beard and what color their turban is? I keep reading conflicting sites.

 

[RustyNails]

Sorry for bumping this thread, but generally speaking, is there a difference between Sunni and Shia men when it comes to how they grow their beard and what color their turban is? I keep reading conflicting sites.

As far as beard is concerned, there's no difference. For Turban color, I think Shias usually wear black turbans. Green colored turban can be seen in both the sects. Some of the smaller sects wear distinguishing turbans. For example, the ahle-hadith are known to wear only green turbans, and they're sunni.

Neither turbans and bears are required though.

 

[louis89]

Has anyone here ever been to Mecca on a Hajj? How possible would it be for a non-Muslim to get inside?

 

[Ashes]

Has anyone here ever been to Mecca on a Hajj? How possible would it be for a non-Muslim to get inside?

I don't know the answer to that question, but I don't think the Saudi police are worth messing about with; nor hold great confidence in their judiciary system. It is illigeal after all.

 

[Instigator]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,737683,00.html

Young Muslim women are often forced to lead double lives in Europe. They have sex in public restrooms and stuff mobile phones in their bras to hide their secret existences from strict families. They are often forbidden from visiting gynecologists or receiving sex ed. In the worst cases, they undergo hymen reconstruction surgery, have late-term abortions or even commit suicide.

Gülay has heard it from her mother so many times: An unmarried woman who has lost her virginity might as well be a whore.

Gülay, 22, lives in Berlin's Neukölln, a district that is home to a high number of Muslim immigrants, and has little in common with the cliché of the "girl with the headscarf." She wears tight jeans, low-cut blouses and has long hair that she doesn't keep covered. She is self-confident and looks people in the eye. Gülay plans to begin a training program to work as an airport ground hostess next year. At first glance, she comes across as a poster child for successful integration.

Nevertheless, she is adamantly opposed to seeing her name in print, just as she would never meet a journalist for an interview in one of the hookah bars in her neighborhood that are so popular among Arab and Turkish immigrants. She is worried that someone could overhear her talking about her family's strict morals, and about the rigid code of honor in her social environment that prevents girls from having sex before marriage and forbids them from having boyfriends.

Gülay is thinking about how best to sum up her dilemma. She nervously stirs her tea before launching into a litany of complaints. "The boys can screw around as much as they want, but if a girl does it she can expect to be shot," she says. "That's just sick." She first had sex five years ago, and it completely changed her life. Since then, she has been deathly afraid of being branded by her family as a dishonorable girl -- or, worst yet, punished and cast out.

A Constant Tug-of-War

Hardly any other issue is as fraught with prohibition and fear among Germany's Muslim immigrants as sex. Many Muslim families adhere to moral values from a pre-modern era, and the separation of the sexes affects almost all aspects of daily life. At the same time, young female immigrants are faced with the temptations of a free life unrestrained by religious and cultural traditions. Their daily lives are a constant tug-of-war between two value systems.

Many of them suffer from this contradiction, and some crack under the strain. Doctors and social workers report on desperate young women coming to them with requests to reconstruct the hymen or perform late-term abortions. The elevated risk of suicide among young immigrant women even prompted Berlin's Charité Hospital to establish a suicide prevention initiative for women from Turkish immigrant families. In a multi-year study, the group hopes to discover why the suicide rate within this population is apparently twice as high as it is among ethnic German women of the same age.

The consequences of living this double life have been poorly studied. Almost no governmental and non-governmental organizations, from family and education ministries to immigration authorities and self-help groups, can offer reliable figures or well-founded conclusions on the issue.

"The problems these women face are caused by the patriarchal and traditional structures in families," says Berlin's commissioner for integration and migration, Günter Piening. According to Piening, youth welfare agencies, government offices and schools have been educated on the issue for years, "but a lot remains to be done."

Being Home by 8 p.m.

Of course, these problems do not exclusively affect Muslim groups. Young women in other social groups also suffer as a result of strict moral codes and domestic violence. And there are also Muslim families in which the daughters lead a modern, self-determined life, a fact that Piening and other politicians are quick to point out.

But doctors, social workers and the operators of crisis hotlines and youth clubs often experience a different reality. They note that, like in Turkey, equal rights are usually only experienced in families in academic or artistic circles. Otherwise, strict traditions dictate that fathers and brothers control the lives of their sisters and daughters.

This helps to explain why many girls with Turkish and Arab origins are so candid about their double lives, but only as long as they are not named.

One of the places where they are more likely to speak their minds is a Berlin youth club for girls from devout families, which is strictly off-limits to boys -- the perfect place for Gülay and her girlfriends to meet. Otherwise, they are not permitted to go out. Going to a party is tantamount to turning tricks, and girls who are not home by 8 p.m., when shops close, need a good excuse to explain their tardiness.

The only freedom these girls enjoy is at school, while shopping or in youth clubs. "When I go home I hide my mobile phone in my underwear," says Sibel, giggling as she extracts a mobile phone from her bra. "I'm not allowed to have a mobile phone or talk to boys. What else should I do?"

Twenty Minutes in a Public Bathroom

A small group of teenagers has congregated in the youth club kitchen. The girls are talking about sex, and almost all of them have something to say, something about their families that upset them. "The first thing our parents think is that we're up to no good," says one of the girls. Nevertheless, most have boyfriends, and even a visit to a gynecologist would be unthinkable for many of these girls, for fear of being spotted by relatives who would automatically conclude that they are there to get the pill -- and are therefore sluts. "There are girls who would rather die from the pain," says Gülay.

Sex education in school is also taboo for many young Muslim girls, says Gülay, who was the only one of 15 Muslim girls in her grade who attended the classes. Her fellow female students from the most devout families, says Gülay, "asked me all kinds of questions about how to use a condom and how to get the pill. Some of them didn't know anything at all." And some, according to Gülay, believed that all they had to do after having sex was to rinse themselves thoroughly with water. Others, especially "headscarf girls," only engage in anal sex with their boyfriends, believing that in this way they can protect their "honor," says Gülay.

Taking a boy home would almost be suicidal, say the girls at the youth club. The thought alone is so unheard-of that it triggers hysterical laughter. They rattle off the places where they have their rendezvous: hallways, park benches or the public restroom on Boddin Square in Neukölln, where person can get 20 minutes of privacy for 50 cents. Some girls are lucky enough to have a boyfriend with his own car or who can at least afford to pay €20 ($27) for a hotel room.

And what happens then?

Papatya, a Berlin crisis center and shelter for girls of Turkish origin, provides neither an address nor a telephone number on his website. For more than 20 years, Papatya has been offering protection and shelter to young immigrant girls and women fleeing domestic violence. The organization is careful to keep its identity and whereabouts a secret. When it comes to injured family honor, anyone who so much as helps the girls can quickly get into danger.

Those who want to contact Papatya are asked to leave a number on an emergency hotline. A short time later, a social worker or a psychologist calls the girls.

One of the staff members at the center is a woman named Leila. In the eight years she has been working at Papatya, she has heard the same complaints again and again. Her list runs the gamut from girls being kept at home and barred from going to school to forced marriage and acts of violence committed on behalf of parents. In her counseling sessions, the girls repeatedly talk about their virginity, and about the fact that their happiness, or lack thereof, can depend solely on a few millimeters of skin.

Part 2: Honor and Virginity

For the girls, the worst thing is to be stigmatized as prostitutes, says Leila. "The entire family's honor is dependent on the virginity of the daughters." Sometimes girls call their fathers from her office at Papatya, only to hear shouted responses like: "Now you're a whore."

In many cases, the only solution for girls who have lost their virginity is reconstruction of the hymen. Although German health insurance agencies do not pay for the procedure, counseling centers offer discounted rates as low as €130 ($171), which is one-tenth the usual fee. The demand is apparently as great as the hope that a small piece of skin can save everything for the girls: honor, love and family harmony.

The counselors at Papatya are also aware of the drawbacks of hymen reconstruction, which they say only reinforces the girls' sense of guilt. "They are living a constant lie," says Leila.

Fear and shame also cause many young women to suppress their pregnancies and, when they have no other options, to obtain illegal late-term abortions. In theory, such abortions should not be necessary, because an exception is often made in Germany for underage Muslim girls. If a girl can prove that her life would be in danger if her family discovered her pregnancy, the parental consent requirement is waived for an early abortion.

A Matter of Life and Death

Nevertheless, it is too late by the time many of them arrive at the practice of Dr. Petra Schneider. She seems nervous as she closes the door of her stark examination room. She is afraid of being prosecuted, because the help she offers her female patients is illegal. "The girls usually don't come here alone. Sometimes the mother or the boyfriend comes along. All of them want the same thing: They want it to happen quickly, and to prevent anyone in the family from finding out," she says quietly. A recent patient was a 16-year-old Turkish girl who arrived with her German boyfriend and his mother. The young woman had concealed her pregnancy for six months, wearing baggy clothing and saying that she had gained weight. The family, says Schneider, was only too pleased to believe her.

Schneider spoke to the group for an hour before giving them the address of a clinic in the Netherlands. "I think they went there and had it taken care of," she says. Cases like the one she describes are matters of life and death, not just of the unborn child, but also of the pregnant girl, who could potentially fall victim to an honor killing.

"What am I supposed to do? I have to believe the girls. They don't seem as if they were faking their difficulties," she says. In some cases, she is even pleased that women willing to have a late-term abortion come to her office, instead of resorting to medieval methods carried out by their mothers and aunts, who attempt to trigger a miscarriage with homemade herbal tinctures, hot baths and kicks in the abdomen.

"End Your Silence, Not Your Life"

At the end of the conversation, Schneider shows this reporter the text of the law that defines advertising for abortion services as a crime -- yet another reason why people are unwilling to reveal their real names when discussing the issue.

"End your silence, not your life," reads a slogan on posters the Charité Hospital puts up in neighborhoods with large Turkish and Arab populations. The posters include the number of a crisis hotline.

Meryam Schouler-Ocak, a senior physician in psychiatry at Charité who runs the Suicide Prevention Initiative for Women With Turkish Immigrant Backgrounds, is behind the campaign. Schouler-Ocak, a petite woman with alert eyes, came to Germany from a Turkish village as a young girl. Before discussing her patients, she says, she feels that it is important to emphasize that honor killings and late-term abortions are not the only realities in the Turkish immigrant community, and that some women in the community live emancipated lives. "The people in my circle of friends and acquaintances all allow their daughters every freedom. Of course, they're all academics," she says.

Nevertheless, Schouler-Ocak is convinced that a liberal worldview and, most of all, equality of the sexes are not widespread among people of Turkish origin in Germany.

Almost all of her young female patients report that commands and taboos were the main reason behind their suicide attempts. "Their families forbid everything," says Schouler-Ocak, "and outside on the street, in school, on TV and among friends, they see normal lives in which women have every freedom. This creates a great sense of longing."

Schouler-Ocak is convinced that rigid sexual morals and the double lives of many Muslim women trigger emotional disorders and, in the worst case, can lead to thoughts of suicide.

According to Schouler-Ocak, some women agree to engage in sexual practices that disgust them and make them physically and emotionally ill. It is no secret, she says, that anal sex, whether it is practiced before or after marriage, often causes painful injuries in women.

Training the Professionals

The Berlin project also includes regular training sessions for general practitioners, gynecologists, teachers and educators -- all the people who are often the only point of contact for women outside their own families. The demand is tremendous. The initiators of the project aim to give women the opportunity to break their silence, to offer them direct and uncomplicated help and, if necessary, a referral for hymen reconstruction.

One of her patients, for example, "would have been spared a lot of problems if she had remained a virgin," says Schouler-Ocak. The woman's parents had married her off in an Anatolian village, but when it was discovered that she was no longer a virgin, she was sent back to Berlin. "After that, her father and brother severely abused her for years," says Schouler-Ocak. Only after a number of suicide attempts did the women end up at Charité and eventually find her way out of the family.

"It's hard for women like that to lead a normal life. The years of violence leave their mark," says Schouler-Ocak. She believes that women must be given the ability to strike back with every conceivable tool, as long as strict sexual morals prevail in their environments. The Charité pilot project continues until March 2011, when the crisis hotline will be discontinued.

Control and Suspicion

Gülay, the young woman from Neukölln, thought long and hard about saving up the money for a hymen reconstruction. Five years ago, her first boyfriend broke up with her after having promised to marry her. After that, other men behaved in the same way, because, as Gülay believes, she was already "dirty."

She and her first boyfriend reconciled a year ago. They were married in March, but only after Gülay had promised him that there had been no one else in her life.

Six weeks later, she left her husband because she couldn't endure his need for control and his suspicions. Now she is living at home with her religious mother once again.

Today, she says, she is only interested in marrying a man who doesn't care about virginity. "You just have to find the right one," she says.

 

[SRG01]

... WTF is that article going on about. That's the most paranoid, hysterical article I've read in recent months.

 

[Instigator]

So things are all fine and dandy with young Muslim women living in the West.

Interesting take.

 

[Zapages]

Ok my local Mosque's imam was trolling everyone.

Today, he gave a 1 hour khutbah, WTF?! His Khutbah before the prayer was, how everyone he knows is angry at him for doing long khutbah, but that is ok because you as Muslims should be patient. I am like ok go on. Then he says, I am going to continue doing long khutbah because he can. Ultimate in trolling everyone. I wouldn't mind long khutbahs, but he likes repeating himself for an hour which can be said in about 15 minutes.

The next part made go WTF. I quote, if you have disease or something and the medicine costs 1000 dollars. Don't pay the doctor a 1000 dollars, instead give the mosque the 1000 dollars and pray from the Holy Quran! ARGH!!! God tells to use our heads and take the medicine what the doctor prescribes and pray for your better health. The Imam was really trolling us hard today.

 

[crazy monkey]

Ok my local Mosque's imam was trolling everyone.

Today, he gave a 1 hour khutbah, WTF?! His Khutbah before the prayer was, how everyone he knows is angry at him for doing long khutbah, but that is ok because you as Muslims should be patient. I am like ok go on. Then he says, I am going to continue doing long khutbah because he can. Ultimate in trolling everyone. I wouldn't mind long khutbahs, but he likes repeating himself for an hour which can be said in about 15 minutes.

The next part made go WTF. I quote, if you have disease or something and the medicine costs 1000 dollars. Don't pay the doctor a 1000 dollars, instead give the mosque the 1000 dollars and pray from the Holy Quran! ARGH!!! God tells to use our heads and take the medicine what the doctor prescribes and pray for your better health. The Imam was really trolling us hard today.

We had one guy in our university like this. He stood up only one jumma next jumma He was not there we kicked him out.

 

[RustyNails]

Ok my local Mosque's imam was trolling everyone.

Today, he gave a 1 hour khutbah, WTF?! His Khutbah before the prayer was, how everyone he knows is angry at him for doing long khutbah, but that is ok because you as Muslims should be patient. I am like ok go on. Then he says, I am going to continue doing long khutbah because he can. Ultimate in trolling everyone. I wouldn't mind long khutbahs, but he likes repeating himself for an hour which can be said in about 15 minutes.

The next part made go WTF. I quote, if you have disease or something and the medicine costs 1000 dollars. Don't pay the doctor a 1000 dollars, instead give the mosque the 1000 dollars and pray from the Holy Quran! ARGH!!! God tells to use our heads and take the medicine what the doctor prescribes and pray for your better health. The Imam was really trolling us hard today.

Complain to the mosque caretakers/people in charge that you don't want him and if he keeps coming you will advise everyone you meet not to attend. Go with your friends..I guarantee you he won't come back.

 

[besiktas1]

Being a Turk, I can wholeheartedly say that article has nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with culture.

Some, well most of it is how young Turks think living in turkey too. Reconstructing their hymens is unfortunately something all too common with Turkish girls.

Also a non Virgin girl is seen as fair game, and the guy who takes a girls virginity unmarried is seen as a cunt.

IF I wasn't on my phone id type a much longer and more coherent reply but touch keyboards suck.

 

[Darth Kupi]

Being a Turk, I can wholeheartedly say that article has nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with culture.

Some, well most of it is how young Turks think living in turkey too. Reconstructing their hymens is unfortunately something all too common with Turkish girls.

Also a non Virgin girl is seen as fair game, and the guy who takes a girls virginity unmarried is seen as a cunt.

IF I wasn't on my phone id type a much longer and more coherent reply but touch keyboards suck.

I agree.

Its similar here in Pakistan.

The only good thing is that cherry poppers are not seen as "playas", but rather as despicable manipulative cunts, which they are since they usually promise marriage in order to get into girls' pants and then dump 'em.

 

[Zapages]

Man arrested with explosives outside mosque: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41338764/ns/us_news/

 

[Zapages]

I really need my thread making privileges back... :\ *sigh*, *sobs* This is such a wonderful topic that will not get any views due to being in this thread.

My old college friend will be discussing this tomorrow in his talk at Capitol Hill in Rayburn B-354 from 12:30-2pm. It will feature CNN Nat'l Security Analyst Peter Bergen, LA Sheriff Lee Baca, former National Security Council Director Roger Cressey:

Muslim-terrorism-threat-far-overrated: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/02/06/2039994/muslim-terrorism-threat-far-overrated.html

 

[Zapages]

As I thought, no one is interested in this good news. *sigh*

 

[Ashes]

How is this good news?

 

[Zapages]

How is this good news?

Did you even read the article?

Muslim terrorism threat far overrated, study suggests

To hear some groups tell it, scores of American Muslims are being radicalized to engage in violent jihad against Western targets.

Not so, says a new study by the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security, a think tank of experts from Duke, UNC Chapel Hill and RTI International.

The center, which tracks terror-related legal proceedings and news reports from across the country, reports that the number of U.S.-instigated terrorist incidents dropped by more than half in 2010.

"Even one terrorist incident is one too many," said Charles Kurzman, the report's author and the co-director of the Carolina Center for the Study of the Middle East and Muslim Civilizations. "But what I'm hoping for is a realistic debate about the terrorist threat based on the actual scope and scale in the U.S. and elsewhere."

Last year, 20 Muslim-Americans were named as suspects or convicted of committing terrorist acts domestically or abroad, down from 47 in 2009. In comparison, there are about 15,000 murders each year in the U.S.

Of the 20 people studied, only five carried out their plots. The most noteworthy incident took place in New York City in May when Faisal Shahzad attempted but failed to detonate a car bomb in Times Square.

Kurzman's study focused incidents that were made public, either through the legal system or the media.

"If there are secret proceedings or people being deported, we wouldn't know about that," he said.

Kurzman attributed the 2009 spike to 17 Somali-Americans who joined al-Shabaab, a radical militant group in Somalia. The 2009 figures also include the indictments of seven Triangle-based men arrested in what federal prosecutors say was a plot to provide support to terrorists. Daniel Boyd, a U.S. citizen from the Johnston County community of Willow Springs is in prison awaiting trial along with his two sons, Zakariya and Dylan. Also indicted were Hysen Sherifi, a permanent resident born in Kosovo; Anes Subasic, a naturalized U.S. citizen from Bosnia; and two Raleigh men, Mohammad Omar Aly Hassan and Ziyad Yaghi, both U.S. citizens.

An arraignment and plea hearing for Boyd is scheduled to take place at the federal courthouse in New Bern on Wednesday.

The report's conclusions dovetail with monthly reports issued by the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Washington, D.C.

"Overall, there is a challenge out there, but it's not a pandemic," said Alejandro Beutel, government and policy analyst with the council.

Beutel's said his database, which draws on reports from the Congressional Research Service and the Heritage Foundation, also finds that Muslim Americans provided many of the tips that thwarted terrorist attacks.

"Since 9/11, four out of 10 al Qaeda plots have been foiled with the assistance of the Muslim community," Beutel said. "Within the past year, that number has spiked to 75 percent."

Kurzman said his report suggests that although there are 1 billion Muslims worldwide, the threat of Islamic terrorism is exaggerated.

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...orism-threat-far-overrated.html#ixzz1DJyiInyo

 

[slider]

Zapages whilst it's potentially good news I don't see how anyone can come to any conclusions if:

a) They're not actively collecting (and sharing) intelligence on CT
and...
b) They don't magically have access to the above intelligence.

I'm sure Wikileaks recently had some stuff about MI5's views on the homegrown threat in the UK.

 

[Zapages]

Zapages whilst it's potentially good news I don't see how anyone can come to any conclusions if:

a) They're not actively collecting (and sharing) intelligence on CT
and...
b) They don't magically have access to the above intelligence.

I'm sure Wikileaks recently had some stuff about MI5's views on the homegrown threat in the UK.

We are exaggerating the threat of Islamic Terrorism here in the USA. Also Muslims are helping to crack down on extremist a lot more than before. I don't know about the UK...

 

[Ashes]

We are exaggerating the threat of Islamic Terrorism here in the USA. Also Muslims are helping to crack down on extremist a lot more than before. I don't know about the UK...

This holds true last time I checked. What I meant is that it is old news. This has been found and discussed before.

 

[Zapages]

This holds true last time I checked. What I meant is that it is old news. This has been found and discussed before.

The article and the discussion happened yesterday and today. Also one of my good friends was involved in this study. :\

 

[Ashes]

The article and the discussion happened yesterday and today. Also one of my good friends was involved in this study. :\

So it's the latest study on a subject that has been covered before. Where is the good news?

Is it now good news that most muslims are not terrorists? or that your friend discovered this?

 

[Zapages]

So it's the latest study on a subject that has been covered before. Where is the good news?

Is it now good news that most muslims are not terrorists? or that your friend discovered this?

both above and Muslims are really helping out.

 

[Ashes]

urgh.... Don't you realise that that was the norm all along? that most muslims were not terrorists and that they would help wherever they can? who is going to harbour a terrorist? Very few.

:/

edit: congrats to your friend btw.

 

[besiktas1]

Quick question. What's the consensus on eating kosher instead if halal. I'm going NYC in April and want to try out Deli and other food. Ive heard its mostly kosher. Some say ots ok some say its not. What shall I what when out there?

 

[slider]

Quick question. What's the consensus on eating kosher instead if halal. I'm going NYC in April and want to try out Deli and other food. Ive heard its mostly kosher. Some say ots ok some say its not. What shall I what when out there?

From my limited knowledge I think Kosher is "the next best thing" if Halal isn't available. But I'd have thought Halal would be available. NYC Muslim GAF help out!

 

[RustyNails]

urgh.... Don't you realise that that was the norm all along? that most muslims were not terrorists and that they would help wherever they can? who is going to harbour a terrorist? Very few.

:/

edit: congrats to your friend btw.

Its just that now we have statistics to prove it (from Zapages). The right-wing noise machine has painted Muslims into a corner.

 

[SUPREME1]

my friend posted this... Kawii anime characters as nuns and Muslim girls. :lol

I can think of a couple of distinct differences:


1. Name a country who's government or regime forces women to cover themselves up in the name of religion. If you came up with one, I guarantee it was not Christian, but rather it was _______.

2. Nuns are not your everyday-run-of-the-mill Christian women. They have dedicated their entire lives to serving the Lord and his church on a whole different level. They cannot marry and live by far stricter rules than the average Christian woman. The average Mulsim man or woman also lives by less stringent standards than an Imam or Cleric would. That is to say they (nuns/priests/clerics/imams/etc) have willingly decided to live a life of servitude and dedication towards their GOD on a level which most followers would not or could not do (not that it's required or anything). Sure the average follower of either religion can be just as dedicated in their hearts as a nun and live by all the rules and be in good standing, but let's be real... that is not the same as living the life day in and day out of someone who goes above and beyond that.


That being said:


The West
Islam
China


^These civilizations will continue to clash as the world continues to evolve socially, economically, militarily. It's foolish to think it won't.

I've seen beautiful Muslim girls (face only) and thought nothing of it. Just a girl being conservative. I've also seen a woman at the mall covered completely in black, face included, and it was quiet jarring to be honest. At some point you ask yourself where it states that GOD wants his creations to remove themselves from the world completely? I don't think it does. I'm sure there are mentioned of being humble and whatnot, but covering yourself up to the point where you lose all the features which make you appear human, well that's probably the point where it's become a misunderstanding or misinformation on their behalf.





/rant

 

[Ashes]

Where in that post was your rant?

 

[Prine]

Kosher is fine for muslims. I eat it all the time..

 

[besiktas1]

So NYC-gaf, what's good to eat, I watched man vs food and all them million pound sandwiches looked soo nice, where can I eat them? Ignorant of me but, are I'm assuming most deli's are kosher right?

 

[Meus Renaissance]

I can think of a couple of distinct differences:


1. Name a country who's government or regime forces women to cover themselves up in the name of religion. If you came up with one, I guarantee it was not Christian, but rather it was _______.

Curious because the debate surrounding the Burkha, and subsequently Muslim women attire, has been on women living in Europe where we laud the freedoms we are given to wear what we want. Inexplicably, the right and groups of people (in Europe) held this belief that the Burkha and/or the Niqaab should be banned out right because it contrasted with those very freedoms. The irony evidently unapparent. If the criticism of this piece of locthing is that is enforced by either states or even men, then what could explain the passionate claims that it be removed from our own society irrespective of whether these women actually want to wear it? If one state is enforcing it to be worn, then what good is another state that enforces it not to be worn? The question therefore becomes; how much of the discomfort experienced is based on this premise on civil freedoms.

2. Nuns are not your everyday-run-of-the-mill Christian women. They have dedicated their entire lives to serving the Lord and his church on a whole different level. They cannot marry and live by far stricter rules than the average Christian woman. The average Mulsim man or woman also lives by less stringent standards than an Imam or Cleric would. That is to say they (nuns/priests/clerics/imams/etc) have willingly decided to live a life of servitude and dedication towards their GOD on a level which most followers would not or could not do (not that it's required or anything). Sure the average follower of either religion can be just as dedicated in their hearts as a nun and live by all the rules and be in good standing, but let's be real... that is not the same as living the life day in and day out of someone who goes above and beyond that.

This is true, but crucially the wearing of the traditional habit is not to symbolise that you are celibate but instead the covering of the body, along with the hair, is an ancient form of showing modesty. The Bible (Corinthians) emphasise this requirement quite specifically

...But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head.. Corinthians 11-5

I don't think its a coincidence either that every depiction of the Holy Mother is her wearing a veil or scarf to cover her hair. Judaism requires married women to cover the hair too. Although there isn't an equivalence between your average Muslim woman wearing the headscarf to a practising Christian woman, both would point to the nun/Burka wearing woman as someone who is more self-concious about her faith, seeing it as a more orthodox approach. Point being that despite nuns having a different role, the reasons for the design behind the habit are no different to why Muslim women wear the Niqaab/Burkha/Hijab - it's a different branch from the same tree. We don't associate nuns with anything other than being devout women, but the Burkha is exclusively related to oppression - the status quo is that she must have been forced to by her husband, and if she isn't married then her brother, and if she does not have a brother, then by an uncle. The possibility that it was out of her choice is rarely considered, and I think that ultimately weakens the credibility of those vocal critics.

Personally, in my experience discussing this with people - some that I've known for some time - is that there is an inherent bias against it on its aesthetics. Something about covering the face frightens us and sparks suspicion. I agree, it's a very visually striking sight, and it's so alien in it's look that it becomes easy to dismiss it as something conjured in a villains cave. I think this holds true to a greater portion than most would admit. Coincidentally, those calls to ban the Burkha were loudest in those European countries with immigration problems. The desire to ban it wasn't out of need to protect them from repressive customs, but to stem back the growing sight of immigration where such veils were becoming increasingly common; Europe didn't want it on its streets to the scale that it was appearing in. But that's just my opinion

 

[Zapages]

one of my friends posted this... Its ROTFL type of thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMbX7rutP0E&feature=player_embedded

lol lol hahaha

 

[Kaeru]

I have a question:

One quote that I have heard a lot is that "if you kill a man its like you kill the whole humanity" and this explains that islam is against killing other human beings.

Is this really true? Whats the source of this quote?

 

[Darackutny]

I have a question:

One quote that I have heard a lot is that "if you kill a man its like you kill the whole humanity" and this explains that islam is against killing other human beings.

Is this really true? Whats the source of this quote?

Qur'an 5:32

For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.

 

[nib95]

I have a question:

One quote that I have heard a lot is that "if you kill a man its like you kill the whole humanity" and this explains that islam is against killing other human beings.

Is this really true? Whats the source of this quote?

Sort of, though the implication is that this spells further than just Israel.

Surah 5. Al-Maida, Verse no 32

"For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than murder or corruption, it shall be as if be had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind."