Official LAIR thread
- Thread starter Captain N
- Start date
Wollan said:
ITs hard yes - to get the high mission ranks (just like all of those star wars factor 5 games)
Its remarkable in the sense that it delivers something that neither one of the other consoles can deliver today. The Wii has the motion controls, but cant rock LAIR's graphics. The X360 could do ok with the visuals, but no motion control.
Having said that - to me its something that really sticks out as a first for this gen.
I had three friends playing the "fly thru the rings" tutorial stages over and over competing for time/score lastnight and having as much fun as they had playing any Wii game (bowling, Tennis, Wario Ware, etc..) The controls work just as well as any tilt on the Wii or the other good tilt games on PS3 (rub a dub, fl0w) -
anyway - im done bitching about the uncalled for slamming this game got.
Wollan said:
Not really. The hard comes from the difficulties you might have understanding what you have to do in some missions and actually spotting the enemy dragons in the "mono-chrome" environment. But as for the skill required to beat stages once you know what to do I can say it's a piece of cake (not saying you wont die here and there, but you'll will keep going). Unless you are aiming for a gold medal. There u gotta be quick and use the combo system as efficiently as you can.
AltogetherAndrews said:
So I guess all of those coinop concepts where you stand on the cabinet ski controller, shoot the time crisis lightgun, or do any other new type of activity that requires practice was a bad idea eh?
No - this is something good about video games. We need more of this frankly and less UE3 based games with the same old FPS controls.
vpance
Member
AltogetherAndrews said:
Previews are there to do PR work for the games and are generally positive so companies are happy and continue to give them scoops and new info. I too think there's a hive mind approach coming from these reviews and whatever will drive traffic more in the end is the decision they make. Not to say that Lair isnt a mediocre or bad game but 4.9 is most assuredly more attention grabbing than a 6.5 or something like that. When you start to compare to other game reviews it becomes even more ridiculous.
A game that I always remember getting panned for controls was Hitman 1, since I liked it alot. I think it got something like a 5.5 at GS. You could walk in one direction and shoot in another which was really cool. But there was more conventional 3rd person view too. I guess they never figured out that the entire control setup was customizable. Some reviewers just suck at games.
Mesijs said:
Only on rare occasion have I had problems with the 180 move. Its usually when I was just crazially jerking the controller up....(this never worked for me in blast factor either)
I got better at all SIXAXIS tilt control games when i started tilting the controler and not whipping it around.
The levels are lovely - the missions are varied
The story is the only thing I dont care about - but really im not into fantasy genre games...I just like the action of this - the gameplay is fun, the story is the same old midevil crap to me IMO.
AltogetherAndrews
Banned
arcader said:
Light gun games are the opposite of fighting with the controls, which is what is implied here. The more transparent the controls, the better. The moment I struggle with the controls, or the challenge is moved from the on-screen experience to the input medium, immersion takes a hit. It's not about getting used to a new control system, that can be perfectly fine. But when the challenge of the game is made up in part by challenging controls, then it can take a hike as far as I'm concerned.
AltogetherAndrews said:
Are you kidding me? Light gun game noobs have the same clumbsy issues LAIR and tilt control game noobs have...
If you dont believe me, go take your mom to the arcade and watch her play a light gun game for the first time...the action of unloading shots, tracking enemies, and then aiming off screen to reload will make her go nutz and before she knows it she will be pulling the trigger 6 times while aiming offscreen or sitting there trying to squeeze shots out on enemies without reloading even tho there is a big funkin message on the screen saying RELOAD and evey time she pulls the trigger it just clicks.
And even then the multitasking required for a lightgun game is like 1/3 what you need to be able to manage for lair.
You dont fight the controls in lair - the clumbsyness is end user inability to rub their tummy and pat their head at the same time...they end up pattingtheir tummy and rubbing their head - and shaking their leg LOL
If you can relax and get control over all of it - LAIR controlls perfectly fine...
If you suck and cant manage it because you arent coordinated enough - you will say its unresponsive, or broken or worse.
The challenge that comes from mastering the control scheme is no greater than in something like Warhawk just using the analog sticks, because the challenge doesn't really come from the motion controls but rather from the overall breadth of the controls.AltogetherAndrews said:
It's a pretty straightforward story which isn't livened up at all by any particularly good acting or presentation in the cutscenes.Wollan said:
Psychotext
Member
Thing is, I'd tend to agree with you had I seen just one review stating the controls were broken... but I've seen 7 of them mention it, and I'm sure there's more out there.arcader said:
Wollan said:
Fanboys am cry.
The game supposedly has some deep flaws, but that's not stopping some people from enjoying it. Apparently the motion controls are not well done, but furthermore the targeting system is bad.
I still don't think it deserves less than a 5 from anyone, but anticipated titles die hard...
After all the carnage I've decided to just rent it.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I've heard a lot of comments about 180 degree turn not working as it should in particular. I'm just saying, the game is already trashed so much because of it's control that it couldn't hurt them any more to try and get some positive publicity out of releasing the analog stick patch - even if it just lets you do a 180 by pulling down on analog stick and do stuff like ramming into other dragons again by pushing sticks etc. They could leave the tilt controls as they are, as that seems to be working fine for everyone, or they could offer an option to use sticks there too. There's something to be said about holding firm on your vision, but in their case, it clearly backfired.Tideas said:
I do think LAIR is getting the scores it deserves, for the simple fact that the devs don't have an option to use sticks. It's absolutely stupid, no excuses. I would enjoy this game 1000% more with more refined control, as I'm sure the reviewers would.
That said, I'm still having fun with the game, and the music is just jaw-droppingly amazing. I'm glad I picked it up, and would definitely recommend a rent for those interested. Hopefully the low scores will get Factor 5 to push harder for their next game (and ALSO INCLUDE STICK CONTROL DAMMIT).
That said, I'm still having fun with the game, and the music is just jaw-droppingly amazing. I'm glad I picked it up, and would definitely recommend a rent for those interested. Hopefully the low scores will get Factor 5 to push harder for their next game (and ALSO INCLUDE STICK CONTROL DAMMIT).
Do you prefer stick controls in Warhawk? Just curious as I can't stand sticks in that game.
What I didn't like motion control wise with Lair last year was the small jabs and such requiring the waggle, flying was perfectly fine but the waggling for attack moves seemed to have like a 50% success rate for me when I tried the demo.
What I didn't like motion control wise with Lair last year was the small jabs and such requiring the waggle, flying was perfectly fine but the waggling for attack moves seemed to have like a 50% success rate for me when I tried the demo.
^Its interesting actually...I might start a thread about it.
I tried LAIR, and the controls were horrible. My friend tried it, couldn't play it. I was beyond frustrated. So later that day another friend came by, and I showed him LAIR...and he played it perfectly. He was guiding the dragon flawlessly, doing the moves, aiming the fire...my friend and I were completely amazed. So my other friend gave it a try...and he did it flawlessly too. I didn't try it because we wanted some Warhawk action, but I realized that it was a different controller that he was using (the other one used earlier was charging).
So I think I have a defective controller. I think a lot of reviewers and people have defective controllers, because some game reviews (Super Rub a Dub, with it's "horrible controls" as IGN puts it) made no sense to me as I had total control over the duck.
I cant wait to try the game again with the other controller...it looked fun as hell in the hands of someone who could control it. But I wonder how many Sixaxis out there suffer from the same flaws as mine does?
I tried LAIR, and the controls were horrible. My friend tried it, couldn't play it. I was beyond frustrated. So later that day another friend came by, and I showed him LAIR...and he played it perfectly. He was guiding the dragon flawlessly, doing the moves, aiming the fire...my friend and I were completely amazed. So my other friend gave it a try...and he did it flawlessly too. I didn't try it because we wanted some Warhawk action, but I realized that it was a different controller that he was using (the other one used earlier was charging).
So I think I have a defective controller. I think a lot of reviewers and people have defective controllers, because some game reviews (Super Rub a Dub, with it's "horrible controls" as IGN puts it) made no sense to me as I had total control over the duck.
I cant wait to try the game again with the other controller...it looked fun as hell in the hands of someone who could control it. But I wonder how many Sixaxis out there suffer from the same flaws as mine does?
UntoldDreams
Member
Lair is a fine steak meal which someone put ketchup on top of.
You can taste the steak and it is indeed good but the ketchup gets in the way.
One thing is for sure, I could not recommend it for my casual play brother or sister. They would not be able to enjoy it at all.
My biggest gripe is that a "Giddyup" and a "Quick turn" are similar SIXAXIS motions which are just exaggerated differently... This was a sub optimal design choice. In the heat of battle this is simply asking for confusion. The other mechanics are actually okay this is the only real blatant problem with the motion for me. Quick turn should have been put on one of the shoulder buttons if they couldn't figure out a proper motion control.
You can taste the steak and it is indeed good but the ketchup gets in the way.
One thing is for sure, I could not recommend it for my casual play brother or sister. They would not be able to enjoy it at all.
My biggest gripe is that a "Giddyup" and a "Quick turn" are similar SIXAXIS motions which are just exaggerated differently... This was a sub optimal design choice. In the heat of battle this is simply asking for confusion. The other mechanics are actually okay this is the only real blatant problem with the motion for me. Quick turn should have been put on one of the shoulder buttons if they couldn't figure out a proper motion control.
AltogetherAndrews
Banned
kaching said:
I obviously wouldn't know how it applies to Lair as I haven't played it yet, I'm just saying that if the challenge of the game involves struggling with controls then that's not a desirable challenge. If motion control mechanics are to be interesting to me, they would ideally serve to make the controls more and intuitive and transparent.
More and more it sounds like some (read: a lot) of the reviewers just didn't want to even give the motion controls a chance. It should come as no shock that people would be initially poor with a new control scheme. People need to be weened off of analogs. Motion controls aren't going anywhere and the sooner that people accept that, the better. Maybe instead of bitching about the lack of analog controls, they should have bit the bullet and tried to make the most out of the motion control scheme. I'll judge it myself when the demo comes or I just buy the game, but it really sounds like this is a typical game reviewers issue, i.e. they played just enough of the game to write a review and never tried to go beyond that.
mysticstylez
Banned
Like others have said, the game chugs way too much. I got the chance to play it today at EB, and while I didn't play much, it didn't take much to notice that Lair runs like doo doo. I like the epic scale and everything thats going on, but it just runs like shit.
Then I was talking to my friend who works there about it, and his biggest complaints are the crappy lock on system.
Then I was talking to my friend who works there about it, and his biggest complaints are the crappy lock on system.
Just completed a few more missions. Also did the extensive training and I must admit I like it a bit more than I initially thought. The scale is actually quite big which gives an epic feeling. The armies that you're tearing apart are also quite big.
Just finished the mission where you
. After doing the training, I understood the combat system better and the rage vision takedown is quite cool. So, I have to play a lot more to give a final rating to it for Gamer.nl.
Just finished the mission where you
had to take down the lights of the lighthouse
sonycowboy
Member
Wollan said:
Seriously, is this in the US or abroad? It's not supposed to be out until Tuesday/Wednesday.
Community Forum
Member
sonycowboy said:
I know GameStop stores got their copies on Thursday. It was originally in the computer as "street dated" for Friday the 31st, but then stores were sent an email with the go-ahead to sell it, and an automated call went out to all reservation customers as well.
Vyse The Legend
Member
Some stores in NYC have it. I've seen it myself, so I thought I'd pop in here and let you guys know, in case you want to search.
OK, so I just picked it up and played through the tutorial and the first mission twice.
Three words: WHAT. THE. FUCK.
I'm directing that at the reviewers. Is LAIR a perfect game? No. It needs some more polish in certain areas. It's *at least* a 7 game, if not an 8 or higher depending on how much you love dragons, I guess. Sixaxis controls are absolutely SPOT ON. Maybe I'm taking a position that's way out there, but I have had absolutely no problem adjusting to them. The only thing I can say is that I sometimes forget that's how you actually move around in the game because I'm so conditioned to use the analog sticks. This is my own problem, not that of the game and it's something that is easily rectified with a little more experience. In that sense, I think the control issues are completely dependent on the gamer's individual adaptability. I mean, who remembers using an analog stick the first time? I played the Mario 64 demo at TRU back in the day and Mario was kind of wandering all over the place because the control scheme was so foreign to me.
I can understand that using the buttons in conjunction with the Sixaxis stuff is a little disorienting at first. I actually had this problem with Warhawk, but it hasn't bothered me too much in LAIR, since they're actually positioned quite nicely once you get used to it. People have complained about Rage Vision on the down button, but using it is no problem since your thumb is freed from the analog stick.
I will say that F5 should've spent a little more time on the tutorial, since it really only tells you how to move, not how to attack, lock-on, engage in dragon-to-dragon battle, etc. and you're suddenly thrown into some of these situations on the very first level.
Everything else about the game has been rather nice so far. Loading times aren't bad, interface presentation is good. The graphics are good, but need to be tightened up on level three (i.e. there is some framerate dropping, weird clipping, and a muted palette - but that's a design choice and the epic scope is still there). The music is stellar, as people have said.
These are early impressions, of course. As I said, I've only been through the first mission, so I've yet to see how the game as a whole stacks up in terms of things like mission structure and length, difficulty, etc. but the one bit that reviews have docked the game points for - the controls, have been pretty painless for me to adapt to. I don't get what they're playing at.
Three words: WHAT. THE. FUCK.
I'm directing that at the reviewers. Is LAIR a perfect game? No. It needs some more polish in certain areas. It's *at least* a 7 game, if not an 8 or higher depending on how much you love dragons, I guess. Sixaxis controls are absolutely SPOT ON. Maybe I'm taking a position that's way out there, but I have had absolutely no problem adjusting to them. The only thing I can say is that I sometimes forget that's how you actually move around in the game because I'm so conditioned to use the analog sticks. This is my own problem, not that of the game and it's something that is easily rectified with a little more experience. In that sense, I think the control issues are completely dependent on the gamer's individual adaptability. I mean, who remembers using an analog stick the first time? I played the Mario 64 demo at TRU back in the day and Mario was kind of wandering all over the place because the control scheme was so foreign to me.
I can understand that using the buttons in conjunction with the Sixaxis stuff is a little disorienting at first. I actually had this problem with Warhawk, but it hasn't bothered me too much in LAIR, since they're actually positioned quite nicely once you get used to it. People have complained about Rage Vision on the down button, but using it is no problem since your thumb is freed from the analog stick.
I will say that F5 should've spent a little more time on the tutorial, since it really only tells you how to move, not how to attack, lock-on, engage in dragon-to-dragon battle, etc. and you're suddenly thrown into some of these situations on the very first level.
Everything else about the game has been rather nice so far. Loading times aren't bad, interface presentation is good. The graphics are good, but need to be tightened up on level three (i.e. there is some framerate dropping, weird clipping, and a muted palette - but that's a design choice and the epic scope is still there). The music is stellar, as people have said.
These are early impressions, of course. As I said, I've only been through the first mission, so I've yet to see how the game as a whole stacks up in terms of things like mission structure and length, difficulty, etc. but the one bit that reviews have docked the game points for - the controls, have been pretty painless for me to adapt to. I don't get what they're playing at.
Insane Metal
Member
Edit. My mistake.
kisakiproject
Member
I just got it. Haven't played yet cause my friends are playing resistance.
Belfast said:
I was calling the game "pretty decent" after the first mission. I didn't think the controls were responsive enough, but the game looked awesome, and I liked the serious tone to the dialogue and story.
After completing the fifth mission, I returned it to Gamestop.
(Got 33 dollars trade-in for it.)
I know people really, really want to like this game- I was one of them- but it really is just a huge misfire.
AstroLad said:
No, it's definitely a player issue. I only did the first practice missions because I was forced too. I never did any other practice missions and have been controlling the dragons perfectly. I guess it helps if you're into the game and you feel like you're actually controlling a dragon and not just holding a controller. I've never had one instance where I died and the "flawed" controls where to blame, only me for screwing up.