Official LAIR thread
- Thread starter Captain N
- Start date
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Agreed. It's beautiful, majestic, and haunting all at once. Some of the songs really give off a Conan the Barbarian vibe, which I love. The song after you complete a mission and its showing you your stats is so somber and beautiful - I love it.chubigans said:
Edit: Chubigans told me I'm dumb and need to lern2spell =( :lol
Trevelyan said:
You probably meant "love" but live gives that quote a whole new meaning. :lol
This is probably BS, but worth mentioning: someone at the official LAIR forums says if you plug in a PS2 controller using an adapter, you can use the analog sticks to control the dragon. I don't see how that's possible, but if anyone has an adapter, worth a shot.
Does anyone actually have a reliable link to the "Sixaxis deadzone issue" or was that BS people were saying? This is all I could find about it.
I mean I can understand certain gamers lacking the talent necessary to rotate and translate controller motion effectively. But if there is a deadzone issue, then it should be considered, geniunely considered for those having issues with the control scheme.
Factor 5, no matter how good they are, couldn't compensate for a faulty motion sensor even if they tried.
I mean I can understand certain gamers lacking the talent necessary to rotate and translate controller motion effectively. But if there is a deadzone issue, then it should be considered, geniunely considered for those having issues with the control scheme.
Factor 5, no matter how good they are, couldn't compensate for a faulty motion sensor even if they tried.
Essentially, some Linux program may be needed to test your SIXAXIS. Check out:
http://www.pabr.org/sixlinux/sixlinux.en.html
The SIXAXIS robot creator has another RC Helicopter demo.
http://www.pabr.org/sixlinux/sixlinux.en.html
The SIXAXIS robot creator has another RC Helicopter demo.
Alrighty, just uploaded the footage of my favorite ambient level, the spotlight canyon one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL8i2sTswX8
I suggest checking it out to see just how cool Lair can be. And to see that people can actually control the game pretty damn well, thank you very much. *snarles at mainstream reviewers*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL8i2sTswX8
I suggest checking it out to see just how cool Lair can be. And to see that people can actually control the game pretty damn well, thank you very much. *snarles at mainstream reviewers*
MasterMFauli
Banned
chubigans said:
Dude, that video shows you constantly nearly crashing into walls or buildings and hardly avoiding them.
Also, dont write as if Lair´s only failure are the controls.
People struggle with controls for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being preconceived notions.AltogetherAndrews said:
I'm not sure what could be much more intuitive and transparent than to map the pitch, roll and yaw of the dragon to the tilt of the gamepad. It's certainly a more direct analogue to what's happening on screen than mapping such motions to two separate sticks.
Maggot9 said:
It ramped up whenever your spotted or something epic happens. The music in this game is truely amazing. I'll definitely be uploading more vids tomorrow.
MasterMFauli said:
Eh? I rode along a few walls but I never rammed into them...and the only reason the spotlight got me was because I wanted to show how the music changed along with the action.
Lair does have it's faults, and I do agree that the review scores should be low simply because Factor 5 didn't allow for analog control. Despite that, I'm digging this game.
Thunderbear
Mawio Gawaxy iz da Wheeson hee pways games
I picked up Lair today despite the mixed reactions on here, the visuals and music is enough for me to want to play this. Thanks everyone for the impressions!
MasterMFauli
Banned
kaching said:
I actually thought he thought that noone would watch his video to get away with his statement.
Vyse The Legend
Member
chubigans said:
Well, uh, the music is really damn nice. The rest isn't for me.
Trevelyan said:
I don't know. Maybe when I play some more it will start becoming more consistent...but as of now I can't come even close to consistency. I can deal with cumbersome controls. What I can't deal with is inconsistant controls where only 75% of the times I do a gesture it is recognized. Like I say below, I had no problems with Warhawk's controls (I loved them and I loved to try to get better at them). But Lair's controls feel greatly inferior.
Norml said:
Yes...SOMETIMES...sometimes when I gesture left (for the left attack) he'll LITERALLY go right. And I'm very aware of the fact that I'm not jerking the controller back to the right after going left. That is just one of the flaws (the other flaws are harder to define in words...they just feel broken). Who knows? Maybe it's my controller?
Onix said:
I said that after 10 minutes I never WANT to play again. I didn't say I stopped playing/never would play again. After spending $60 I'm determined to play this for at least a few hours before giving up, even if it's torture.
And it's not for lack of trying/open-mindedness that I'm criticizing these controls! In the Warhawk beta I would just play for hours and hours all alone just to get familiar with flying because I thought it was awesome and I felt like I was constantly improving. I am obsessed with SIXAXIS and all the potential it has...but this game (partly due to it's controls and partly due to the fact that the camera makes the controls even worse) just feels broken as hell.
BUT ANYWAY...
There is really no sense in me arguing this further as it is just opinion. I went into this game expecting a steep learning curve with the controls and I was excited about it becuase I thought the payoff would be great. I haven't yet given up on the controls but they really feel horrible to me. I'm going to play more now and I'll let you know if it gets any better. Otherwise, I'll sell for $50 shipped (I'll sell to PM's based on order of receipt)
Oh, and to anyone saying the game controls great, I'm really curious to see what your best times are on the MEDIUM flight training course. I'm not being a dick...I wanna know if I suck or the controls suck.
EDIT: I just realized you could change the camera with select and that helps a bit. I got a 2:33 on the medium flight training course. I feel like I could have gotten much better with WARHAWK'S motion controls...which are less jerky and more responsive (I'm not bashing SIXAXIS...I'm just not feeling Lair's implementation)
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Well, I know people who have given up on other stuff that has new control methods in about that time. What is it people say..."If it's not fun in 10 minutes, it never will be"?Onix said:
Anyway, that video proves that if you get a handle on the controls, they work just fine. If that were the only criticism of Lair, we'd be out of the woods here.
Thunderbear
Mawio Gawaxy iz da Wheeson hee pways games
I've played through the first few levels and I completely understand why people complain about the controls but they aren't horrendous in my opinion. They just aren't great. The lock on system works pretty well and if you pay attention your objectives are pretty clear.
What's so sad though is that this is a game that could of been amazing. Individual elements are great, and then others are so amateurish. The HDRI adjustment is way too extreme and you get way too much contrast between darks and lights. I'm all for contrast, but not when I can't see details. The bloom seems completely unnecessary and just adds confusion especially on the troops. The fade to black on top and bottom looks really cheap too. It seems like an attempt to emulate some film grading techniques but it just fails.
I'm glad I got the game and the 4.9 from IGN was way too harsh. The music is fantastic and it's still fun to play. I just think it's a big disappointment of what could of been. It seems they had great artists, but not a great art director. The game designers had good ideas, but for whatever reasons they fell short on really making it AAA. Not including the option for analog controls was a huge mistake.
I'd give it a 7.5/10 but I really hate scores. There are 9/10 elements in there and that's why I am enjoying it so far.
What's so sad though is that this is a game that could of been amazing. Individual elements are great, and then others are so amateurish. The HDRI adjustment is way too extreme and you get way too much contrast between darks and lights. I'm all for contrast, but not when I can't see details. The bloom seems completely unnecessary and just adds confusion especially on the troops. The fade to black on top and bottom looks really cheap too. It seems like an attempt to emulate some film grading techniques but it just fails.
I'm glad I got the game and the 4.9 from IGN was way too harsh. The music is fantastic and it's still fun to play. I just think it's a big disappointment of what could of been. It seems they had great artists, but not a great art director. The game designers had good ideas, but for whatever reasons they fell short on really making it AAA. Not including the option for analog controls was a huge mistake.
I'd give it a 7.5/10 but I really hate scores. There are 9/10 elements in there and that's why I am enjoying it so far.
methane47
Member
chubigans said:
That level looks crazy
Very nice and I like the lighting.. But I can totally understand why some people have problems figuring out where to go and what to do next... Some places in the vid.. you would like change directions and I'm like.. "WTF is he doing? oh wait.. thats where he's supposed to go..."
Even if some people here like LAIR, I hope that Factor 5 makes a smaller-scale project the next time. I don't necessarily mean a PSN game, although Turrican would be great. I'm more thinking about something that isn't set in gigantic levels with thousands of AI-controlled character.
Thunderbear
Mawio Gawaxy iz da Wheeson hee pways games
The encounter with the serpent dragon was awesome! Loved the feeling of scale on it. Yeah the QT stuff wasn't perhaps brilliant but I still enjoyed that battle. I hope there are plenty more cool bosses like that throughout the game.
ok so its settled;
people who complain about LAIR are sissay boys who should go play MYST (maybe they can handle MYSTs controls) - or maybe go play Kings Quest II - Watch out for the parts where you climb the cliffs, they will be tricky fo the novice.
People who like LAIR need to add me to their friends list now
"abrader" = PSN name
people who complain about LAIR are sissay boys who should go play MYST (maybe they can handle MYSTs controls) - or maybe go play Kings Quest II - Watch out for the parts where you climb the cliffs, they will be tricky fo the novice.
People who like LAIR need to add me to their friends list now
"abrader" = PSN name
Thunderbear
Mawio Gawaxy iz da Wheeson hee pways games
TTP said:
That's a shame
That's been one of the highlights so far. Still, I am really enjoying the game. I think the music is playing a big part in it and the
snow
This game is from my point of view definitely getting worse reviews than I believe it deserves. High 70s or low 80s IMO. I also have a feeling I am going to enjoy Heavenly Sword quite a bit, and I am glad that I am going into it not expecting a long game. That way at least that portion won't disappoint.
I do think a lot of the criticism towards the game is very valid. It's not always obvious what your targets are which can be frustrating leading to some trial and error. The controls aren't horrendous but they are by no means perfect. The visuals are so inconsistent, the serpent snake bit is gorgeous in everyway (easily in the 90s, some of the best stuff seen in next gen so far) but then there's plenty of elements that let the game down. The close-up fights between dragons are also a bit poor, but easy to get the hang of.
Still, if you enjoy arcadey games I'd really recommend this. Just don't go in expecting perfection.
Thunderbear
Mawio Gawaxy iz da Wheeson hee pways games
gcubed said:
I'm not TTP but I'll throw my 2 cents in, it's definitely not a solid 30. I'm playing on a huge 720p projector screen and that does annoy sometimes, but not enough to not enjoy the game.
Justin Dailey said:
More importantly, Warhawk gives you the choice tilt controls or analogue sticks.
That Lair doesn't offer the choice is quite inexcusable and probably accounts for such low scores especially if they suck. In the grand scheme of development I doubt it would have killed them to put an alternative control scheme in. Lots of other games manage it. e.g. I found the SIXAXIS snakecam in R6: Vegas to be horrible so I turned it off. I truly believe that if there were an alternate control scheme that the scores would be several points higher. Who knows, reviewers might have even become favourably disposed to the game.
Gestures suck anyway. Tilting is a more or less 1:1 mapping, but anything beyond that runs a serious risk of the game ignoring gestures, or making false positives, or just annoying the hell out of the player by requiring them to make some arbitrary abstract motion that is a lot more bother than just pushing a button. I expect the best Wii games are the ones which keep things simple.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
MasterMFauli said:
translation: Scramble! Possible ban alert! Play cards right, Deny, deny, deny!
AgentOtaku
Member
sure this is super old, but still think its crazy that this works!
http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/08/hate-lairs-moti.html#comments
http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/08/hate-lairs-moti.html#comments
Alright, two more videos uploaded! Here's the sea serpent battle (the colors are weird on Youtube for some reason):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YMyzJRwpsIU
And one of my other favorites, a bombing run over a mountain town:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PW6Me3BiZCU
That's all I'll upload since anything past that is getting into spoiler territory. So far it's a solid game, and I'm liking it quite a bit.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YMyzJRwpsIU
And one of my other favorites, a bombing run over a mountain town:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PW6Me3BiZCU
That's all I'll upload since anything past that is getting into spoiler territory. So far it's a solid game, and I'm liking it quite a bit.
That night mission looked really incredible. Very appealing, that was.
Ah, I really don't want to take a chance on this one. The music may actually really enhance the game, though. I actually played and finished Tomb Raider AoD back in the day (and seriously replayed it before Anniversary this year). The game is so flawed in many ways, but once you learn how to play it well, it actually feels pretty epic and awesome. As with Lair, the high quality music and atmosphere seems to have played a role.
It's just that, after stuff like Metroid Prime 3 and Bioshock, Lair would probably feel pretty cheap and terrible in comparison. I really have to try it now, though, as I haven't seen opinions this divided in a very long time.
Now, are the objectives really as confusing as people are saying? I mean, is it possible to actually know where to go without guessing? I could see a mix of someone seriously disliking the controls mixed with a lack of understanding the objectives leading to absolute hate.
Ah, I really don't want to take a chance on this one. The music may actually really enhance the game, though. I actually played and finished Tomb Raider AoD back in the day (and seriously replayed it before Anniversary this year). The game is so flawed in many ways, but once you learn how to play it well, it actually feels pretty epic and awesome. As with Lair, the high quality music and atmosphere seems to have played a role.
It's just that, after stuff like Metroid Prime 3 and Bioshock, Lair would probably feel pretty cheap and terrible in comparison. I really have to try it now, though, as I haven't seen opinions this divided in a very long time.
Now, are the objectives really as confusing as people are saying? I mean, is it possible to actually know where to go without guessing? I could see a mix of someone seriously disliking the controls mixed with a lack of understanding the objectives leading to absolute hate.
Y2Kev said:
Hah, but that's within the first six levels so it's not spoilers or anything.
The objectives are always clear...it's completing them that's a bit trickier (you know what you have to do, but where exactly you need to go is not always defined properly.)
I would kill to hear what Julian and crew have to say about all this. I'm sure it's absolutely crushing for everyone on the team. We've read plenty of comments from folks like Ken Levine in regards to the amazing quality of Irrational's latest, for example, but I'd love to hear from someone who has essentially failed in the eyes of most.
I dunno, this just doesn't seem like your typical bad game. There seems to have been a lot of love put into it and everyone seemed so very excited.
I dunno, this just doesn't seem like your typical bad game. There seems to have been a lot of love put into it and everyone seemed so very excited.
dark10x said:
Yea, watching the videos I see some parts that GS is talking about, like the wonky camera.
I just can't wrap my head around the entire experience being a 4.5... It's just kind of unbelievable.
I think that this game was highly anticipated by some, which brought the score down even lower when some flaws were discovered.
I want the music, at least.