Official LAIR thread

It seems everyone's biggest gripe is simply the control issue with motion controls. While I enjoyed motion controls in Warhawk quite a lot, I'm sure I'll find these comfortable as well, but couldn't Factor 5 simply release a patch to make the game playable with joysticks for the people complaining about it?
 
drohne said:
i don't expect lair to be any good -- i diverge from the 'rs2 had phenomenal graphics and mediocre gameplay' consensus, in that i think its gameplay was completely awful, worse really than that forgettable star wars starfighter game on ps2. and moreover i hate motion controls. but egm reviews are useless. in their drive to be 'tough' and bring the scoring average back down to 5, they'll overlook the merits of anything at all idiosyncratic or open to attack. and if they do praise something idiosyncratic, it'll be a bloody useless ds 'game' like hotel dusk. i don't know. i don't place any faith in play or gamepro either, but i'd rather see game reviews that are perceptive about the merits of games that aren't obvious 'aaa' critic-bait. better that than egm's idea of 'toughness.'

and if this post makes no sense it's because it's 4 o clock on a sunday morning and i'm still drunk
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It makes sense and for once I actually agree with you...its rare that this happens. The thing is EGM reviews are just bad. Well thats an improper generalization, there are certain people on the review crew for 1up that right horrible reviews, ***cough Donahoe, Garnett cough*** I'll read Parish's reviews and even Shane's, and thats about it.

Alpha&Omega said:
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this should be on every page of this thread. Let's be optimistic folks:D
 
The ManGod himself could say this game is a 1/10 and I'd still buy it. I don't play reviews, and I made my decision to buy this game long ago. Plus there are plenty of vids of people playing the game and controlling it just fine.
 
CoG said:
That would entail dropping $60 (or getting a demo, which it does not look like we're getting here). If the aggregate of reviews says it's a no-buy, it's probably a no-buy.
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You do know you can rent games for a couple of dollars in most countries right? In the UK I can rent a game for a month for $6.
 
Instigator said:
That settles it. No one can argue with that kind of thinking.

Don't come complaining here if you have buyer's remorse though.
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Yeah, you guys are the voice of reason here. One magazine say it's bad, but the other two aren't viable because of past transgressions but this one is? There are just as many bad/controversial EGM reviews I could point to as there are Play Magazine. The only reviews I really feel "Finalize" the quality of a game are from Gamespot. Other sources are too inconsistent when it comes to matching my tastes.

I'm not saying the game will be good or even average, but don't pretend your position is any different from his.
 
typhonsentra said:
I'm not saying the game will be good or even average, but don't pretend your position is any different from his.
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I don't have a position. I don't even own a next-gen console. Lair was not on my radar screen and it still isn't. I have absolutely no history talking about Lair or Factor 5.

But I can still laugh at those vowing to buy it despite all the proof in the world you could bring them against it (thus, more than just one review). They can still rent it or play it at the store first, you know, just to be on the safe side. But no, they have to buy it, for pride's sake! That warrants a few chuckles at the very least.
 
I think we should wait though before calling the game a complete failure. But the people suddenly calling reviews unimportant and stupid are definitely damage controlling.


If this game should turn out to be a failure, I think it's a good thing most people didn't have too high expectations for it. In the thread where people predicted the biggest bombs of the year, Liar was mentioned quite a lot with the argumentation that "it would probably be underwhelming". I've got much higher hopes for Heavenly Sword. That game looks aw-some!
 
Instigator said:
I don't have a position. I don't even own a next-gen console. Lair was not on my radar screen and it still isn't. I have absolutely no history talking about Lair or Factor 5.

But I can still laugh at those vowing to buy it despite all the proof in the world you could bring them against it (thus, more than just one review). They can still rent it or play it at the store first, you know, just to be on the safe side. But no, they have to buy it, for pride's sake! That warrants a few chuckles at the very least.
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Uh, it's one negative review out of 3 (Soon to be four of course since EGM/1up almost always share the same crew.). EGM isn't any more credible than Play, is it?
 
typhonsentra said:
Uh, it's one negative review out of 3 (Soon to be four of course since EGM/1up almost always share the same crew.). EGM isn't any more credible than Play, is it?
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ahem, read the full quote.

The ManGod himself could say this game is a 1/10 and I'd still buy it. I don't play reviews, and I made my decision to buy this game long ago.
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The man would buy it no matter how many reviews trashed it.
 
For those that are interested in buying Lair, what are the aspects of the game that interest you?

For me, I am interested in the air combat elements. I am interested in the story. I like the idea of flying a dragon around and engaging both air and ground forces. The graphics and the music certainly are appealing.
 
Instigator said:
I don't have a position. I don't even own a next-gen console. Lair was not on my radar screen and it still isn't. I have absolutely no history talking about Lair or Factor 5.

But I can still laugh at those vowing to buy it despite all the proof in the world you could bring them against it (thus, more than just one review). They can still rent it or play it at the store first, you know, just to be on the safe side. But no, they have to buy it, for pride's sake! That warrants a few chuckles at the very least.
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I suggest you direct your comments towards the EGM review thread. While I agree that ignoring reviews is sometimes a recipe for remorse, I think this thread is intended for people who are interested in discussing the game. Since you have no intention on purchasing it, but you do feel interested in talking about the act of ignoring reviews, then I think your comments would be better placed in the EGM thread that has touched off all this discussion. You are arguing about review scores and how they are received, in general, while you have expressed no interest in Lair.
 
The ground/army aspect & general freedom/scope. The high technical achievement of the engine and advanced monsters.
The music and overall 'omph' to the whole thing. Also, I don't mind the extra stuff and Home items.
 
Factor 5 are graphic wizards and this game proves it once again. I do think it falls in line with their previous games: fantastic graphics, but mediocre gameplay. Every once in a while they churn out a real winner (Rogue Leader), but it wasn't to be this time around.

Ah well, they've got a three game deal with Sony (sez Wollan), so maybe they've got the right touch next time.


edit: Although Mike Works is pretty right about some of the reactions in here. :p
 
A little LTTP, but...
beelzebozo said:
reviews by crispin, greg ford, and garnett (scores listed in that order):
6.0, 5.5, 5.0

they say it looks awesome, but has some control issues. there's some other stuff, but i'll keep it vague to stay within the tos.
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... as soon as I heard that play gave Lair a 9, I knew scores like this would come rather fast and furious.
 
Reviews are sometimes incorrect too. Just look at the 1up review for Killzone: Liberation. The game is superb and they gave it a 5.
I like dragons and this game is my thing. It'll be a nice addition to my collection.
 
Great. Even Lair's official ****ing thread is full of bullshit.

"Hey guys, why don't we completely ignore one review that was very positive, and take another review that was negative as the final say! Great idea huh?"
 
Madman said:
Great. Even Lair's official ****ing thread is full of bullshit.

"Hey guys, why don't we completely ignore one review that was very positive, and take another review that was negative as the final say! Great idea huh?"
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Hey at least it got a lot of people who normally wouldn't set foot in the thread interested in Lair, right?
 
Madman said:
Great. Even Lair's official ****ing thread is full of bullshit.

"Hey guys, why don't we completely ignore one review that was very positive, and take another review that was negative as the final say! Great idea huh?"
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Uh. That's half of the crowd. The other half is like "Hey guys, why don't we completely ignore one review that was negative, and take another review that was positive as the final say! Great idea huh?"
 
Btw, a game that gets a 5.5 from EGM isn't complete shit is it? I can fully understand people still getting the game, since the controls probably aren't -****ing horrible-, and the atmosphere (graphics, story, music) probably is an awsome package.
 
So, is there anything else we've learned from EGM about the game? Aside from the small comments about control issues? What about gameplay and story?
 
Sharp said:
Hey at least it got a lot of people who normally wouldn't set foot in the thread interested in Lair, right?
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Look at old Lair threads. GAF has shit on this game nearly non stop. When the positive Play review came out, people did everything they could to downplay the review. Then, a second magazine gives a negative review and people rally around even if they have zero reason to comment.
 
Madman said:
Look at old Lair threads. GAF has shit on this game nearly non stop. When the positive Play review came out, people did everything they could to downplay the review. Then, a second magazine gives a negative review and people rally around even if they have zero reason to comment.
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Yeah but Play really don't know wtf they are talking about.



Really.
 
Yixian said:
Yeah but Play really don't know wtf they are talking about.



Really.
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No offense here, but I'd certainly say the same thing about the overwhelming majority of EGM staff. But then I'd say that about nearly every US gaming mag or site, so hey. Happy amateurs without the happy, the lot of them. Now there is a good chance that Lair is scored realistically, but please. Let's not pretend that EGM is anything but a rag.
 
I always had a feeling this game was going to suck. But final opinion should be reserved for when i rent it and hate it myself. I dont trust reviewers enough to let them decide for me.
 
Souldriver said:
Uh. That's half of the crowd. The other half is like "Hey guys, why don't we completely ignore one review that was negative, and take another review that was positive as the final say! Great idea huh?"
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If you look around in this thread, there are 2 basic types of people. Those that are interested in Lair, and those that have no reason for being here.

And I really haven't seen anyone say the Play review as the final say while plenty of people are using EGM as the final say.
 
So, what did EGM give to Rogue Leader II and III?

I'm a SW fan and that obviously was a big part of the charm, but I really loved those two games: Even Rebel Strike, the unbearable foot sections were like 3 in the whole game, so not much damage was done in my eyes... although it somehow confirmed that camera work is probably not up F5's sleeves, and Lair just seems to continue with this tradition.

Thunderbear said:
Only thing that worries me is if the reason Sony hasn't been pushing this hard is because they don't believe in it.
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Well, seeing EGM's score that could be it... but again, as someone pointed out already, they pushed even Genji2 after all:lol
 
Souldriver said:
I think we should wait though before calling the game a complete failure. But the people suddenly calling reviews unimportant and stupid are definitely damage controlling.
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Yea, I agree.

It's really a shame that the EGM scores are so low.

The ONLY thing I'm concerned about is the fact that there are a ton of complaints about the motion controls.

For myself, personally, I can't fly a Warhawk with analog... I've gotten way too used to using the motion controls for it.

If the motion controls are well done, but the reviewers just can't get used to it, then that's really a shame.

However this has moved from "insta-buy" to "let's wait and see opinions".
 
DenogginizerOS said:
For those that are interested in buying Lair, what are the aspects of the game that interest you?

For me, I am interested in the air combat elements. I am interested in the story. I like the idea of flying a dragon around and engaging both air and ground forces. The graphics and the music certainly are appealing.
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Yea. Same here. I'm still interested in the game. I mean, I have nothing else on either console with awesome dragons and huge, sprawling vistas so I might as well give it a whirl.
 
I strongly recommend anyone interested in this game to try out their 4 Star Wars games first (Rogue Squadron, Battle for Naboo, Rogue Leader, Rebel Strike). A few patterns I've noticed with F5:

First, all of their games seem to have control problems. This is probably the biggest flaw in all of their games. I've found myself fighting against the controls in all of their games to one extent or another. The more complicated the controls are the more they mess them up too. But I've found the controls acceptable in every game but Rebel Strike.


Second (and this has me worried the most about Lair) is that when they base a stage on the event from the movie it turned out almost always great ... but their original stages are very hit and miss. They did an excellent job recreating many of the big scenes in Rogue Leader, but with Rebel Strike they took several secondary events from the movies and tried to expand them into full stages and failed. Factor 5 works best with structure.

Last, though not really a pattern (hopefully), Rebel Strike just plain sucks. There are 2 amazing stages, 2 good stages, and the rest ranges from forgettable to awful. Stages are poorly paced and a few just abruptly end. The onfoot mission were poorly poorly poorly done and hurt otherwise fun stages. They even were able to inject the new-&-totally broken controls into the Rogue Squadron co-op portion of the game making that part even non-enjoyable. The AT-ST stages were the games only redeeming feature. Factor 5 can make a great game, but it seems that they more they try to stuff into a game the worse it turns out.

Personally, I feel Rebel Strike killed a lot of hype I might have had for Lair. I really hope the game proves me wrong about them.
 
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