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[ELS-01X]

Well, that's your opinion. Many people feel different and think that the model is the same. *shurgs*

It's not my opinion, it's a fact, just look at the pictures. The hair is the main clue. If you can't see that maybe you shouldn't be talking about graphics.

 

[robertsan21]

this post is not hate towards MGS4 its just a few things that I have seen in this new trailer that I hope will be corrected.

Octocam does not seem to work properly in the trailer, Bathroom scene where snake has the famous chess camo on, he takes down the enemy and chokes him but the octocam does not change pattern while snake is in top of the enemy.
shouldnt the camo change in to the same color as the enemy?

what I hope to see in the final build is a octocam that changes pattern all the time, if I walk or run across a room that has a wall colored in red, blue, green and yellow I want the cammo to work like this

when I walk or run infront of the red color I turn red if I walk or run or stand with half of snakes body on blue and the other on red I should have half my body Blue and the other half red and so on.

I know we have seen some of that in the trailer "03:49" but the cammo is not active at all times it seem wich I really hope it is in the final game.

and another thing now that some people are talking Downgrade, MGS1 andMGS2 featured Stelth........dont you find Octocam inferior to stelth?

doesnt technology evolve and become more advanced?
I love octocam concept and I think it is VERY COOL but stelth is far better when it comes to hiding than Octocam is so why would anyone develop a octocam when you have stelth?

oh and one more thing MKII is NOT using octocam as You can see thru him when he is driving up to the enemy, MKII seems to be using Stelth.

 

[TTP]

Nope, both the cutscene's and the gameplay's models look about the same. It's just like they're not as good as they used to be.

I fail to understand what you are trying to say. "Used to be" what? We never saw gameplay models till now.

 

[mckmas8808]

this post is not hate towards MGS4 its just a few things that I have seen in this new trailer that I hope will be corrected.

Octocam does not seem to work properly in the trailer, Bathroom scene where snake has the famous chess camo on, he takes down the enemy and chokes him but the octocam does not change pattern while snake is in top of the enemy.
shouldnt the camo change in to the same color as the enemy?

what I hope to see in the final build is a octocam that changes pattern all the time, if I walk or run across a room that has a wall colored in red, blue, green and yellow I want the cammo to work like this

when I walk or run infront of the red color I turn red if I walk or run or stand with half of snakes body on blue and the other on red I should have half my body Blue and the other half red and so on.

I know we have seen some of that in the trailer "03:49" but the cammo is not active at all times it seem wich I really hope it is in the final game.

and another thing now that some people are talking Downgrade, MGS1 andMGS2 featured Stelth........dont you find Octocam inferior to stelth?

doesnt technology evolve and become more advanced?
I love octocam concept and I think it is VERY COOL but stelth is far better when it comes to hiding than Octocam is so why would anyone develope a octocam when you have stelth?

oh and one more thing MKII is NOT using octocam as You can see thru him when he is driving up to the enemy, MKII seems to be using Stelth.

I think the Octocam will be turned on at the player's expense. If you want it on push a button.

I don't want Octocamo to change all game. Sometimes I want to like like a real solider. And octocamo still does require stealth. You can see the stealth moves through out the whole gameplay trailer.

 

[ELS-01X]

I fail to understand what you are trying to say. "Used to be" what? We never saw gameplay models till now.

But we have seen cutscene's and this gameplay model looks almost if not totally identical to the E3 and GC models, while there's a clear difference when compared to the last year's TGS.

 

[SolidSnakex]

But we have seen cutscene's and this gameplay model looks almost if not totally identical to the E3 and GC models, while there's a clear difference when compared to the last year's TGS.

No there isn't, but you're welcome to keep thinking so if you want. Although its interesting that you're so keen on pointing out supposed downgrades in MGS4 while ignoring that everything about Lair has been downgraded.

 

[gogogow]

You tell me to stop using videos to compare, and you use a washed-out one with wrong aspect ratio? *rolleyes* Both screens I used are direct feeds, it's perfectly valid. I haven't seen such bad textures in that other game you mention, probably because there aren't.

Yes, in THAT other game there are bad textures.
I have those screenshots that exactly shows that, but I don't feel like posting it.
Cause I don't think (some) lower res textures makes a game less fun.

 

[TTP]

doesnt technology evolve and become more advanced?
I love octocam concept and I think it is VERY COOL but stelth is far better when it comes to hiding than Octocam is so why would anyone develope a octocam when you have stelth?

You cannot turn yourself into a statue with the Stealth technology tho :lol

Maybe stealth needs some kind of battery to work for a decent period of time (hence the reason MK-II uses it) wheras Octocamo is cheap enough to use (assumption coming) the electricity produced by your own body.

 

[ELS-01X]

No there isn't

Only in denial land.

Yes, in THAT other game there are bad textures.
I have those screenshots that exactly shows that, but I don't feel like posting it.
Cause I don't think (some) lower res textures makes a game less fun.

PM them please

Although its interesting that you're so keen on pointing out supposed downgrades in MGS4 while ignoring that everything about Lair has been downgraded.

:lol @ everything. Still looks better than this ;P

 

[SolidSnakex]

:lol @ everything.

Dragons, textures, fire, lighting ect. are all downgraded from the previous trailers.

 

[ELS-01X]

Dragons, textures, fire, lighting ect. are all downgraded from the previous trailers.

lol, the only thing downgraded was the texturing and some of the polygonal detail of the dragons. The lighting is actually better (except for the exaggerated HDR) and we never saw real time fire in previous trailers so no.

 

[bud]

Hey, ELS-01X

Looks the same to me.

 

[Amir0x]

Regardless of your opinion on MGS4 status, ELS, Solidsnakex is correct... it's more than a little hilarious to try to downplay MGS4 and 'ignore' the downgrading across the board in Lair.

So not only do I think you're wrong about MGS4 - texture work needs to be fixed (but there was terrible PS2-era textures even in the very first MGS4 video too that I can point out to you) - but it means you're being disingenuous when you want to be.

 

[ELS-01X]

Hey, ELS-01X

Looks the same to me.

Most likely because the GIF is blurry as hell. Even so you can see the hair is completely different.

Regardless of your opinion on MGS4 status, ELS, Solidsnakex is correct... it's more than a little hilarious to try to downplay MGS4 and 'ignore' the downgrading across the board in Lair.

So not only do I think you're wrong about MGS4 - texture work needs to be fixed (but there was terrible PS2-era textures even in the very first MGS4 video too that I can point out to you) - but it means you're being disingenuous when you want to be.

I'm not ignoring anything, I simply don't run damage control every time I see something negative about the game and can actually accept the flaws currently present in the it.

 

[Y2Kev]

Why do you hate this game so much?

 

[ELS-01X]

Why do you hate this game so much?

:lol It's not like I'm saying it sucks. It's just that it's not as good as it used to be.

 

[bud]

Most likely because the GIF is blurry as hell. Even so you can see the hair is completely different.

So different hairstyle means downgrade, huh?

 

[ELS-01X]

So different hairstyle means downgrade, huh?

More like hair detail.

 

[mckmas8808]

:lol It's not like I'm saying it sucks. It's just that it's not as good as it used to be.

Used to be?

Again that face, suit, and gun looks as good as the TGS trailer from 2005.

 

[JB1981]

The difference in quality between these two shots is staggering.

One has beautiful HDR, self-shadowing, more polys in Snakes headband, mustache, suit - basically the whole model is much more high poly.

The color palette is also much better.

The latest show looks flat, flat, flat. No depth, no HDR, no self-shadowing - it actually looks like it's running on 2 different systems - one that's next-gen and one that's PS2 2.5

 

[Y2Kev]

What happened to this game?

omg it looks so bad

I wish it looked like LAIR D) for LAIR D) will be the best game ever. The LAIR D) programmers should show Kojima how they made LAIR D) because LAIR looks like this:

.

/els bait

:lol

 

[JB1981]

Kev: you seriously don't think the game looks downgraded at all?

 

[ELS-01X]

Used to be?

Again that face, suit, and gun looks as good as the TGS trailer from 2005.

Did I ever mention the face? Nice try.

omg it looks so bad

I wish it looked like LAIR D) for LAIR D) will be the best game ever. The LAIR D) programmers should show Kojima how they made LAIR D) because LAIR looks like this:

.

/els bait

:lol

I see you ignored my answer to your previous post...

 

[Y2Kev]

Kev: you seriously don't think the game looks downgraded at all?

I think the primary difference in those two shots is lighting. It is jarring, but all the facial detail is all still there. You can argue how you like about the hair being "downgraded," I think it looks fine.

That texture running along the bottom looks like ass, though. The game has a year to go.

And els, I know, I was just playing.

 

[WalkMan]

Kev: you seriously don't think the game looks downgraded at all?

His moustache definitely needs to be remodeled.

 

[bud]

First mgs4 trailer: great model, textures all placeholders.
Last mgs4: model looks the same, a lot of bad textures fixed.

So how doesn't this still look as good?

 

[mckmas8808]

Kev: you seriously don't think the game looks downgraded at all?

No not even close. Did you see the Leipez video?

 

[Y2Kev]

No not even close. Did you see the Leipez video?

I'm gonna guess you were spelling Leipzig? :lol

Yeah, it looked excellent.

 

[mckmas8808]

His moustache definitely needs to be remodeled.

A freaking moustache? Gamers today I tell you. The moustache is actually upgraded from the TGS model. :lol

 

[ELS-01X]

First mgs4 trailer: great model, textures all placeholders.
Last mgs4: model looks the same, a lot of bad textures fixed.

So how doesn't this still look as good?

Yeah, keep ignoring the evidence, good job *rolleyes*

 

[JB1981]

No not even close. Did you see the Leipez video?

I'm pretty sure I have. But that video didn't have gameplay footage in it. Link me to the one you're talking about.

BTW, I'm hardly a PS3 troll - I adore MGS and I think, overall, the PS3 is the way to go this gen because of the depth and breadth of the library (in all genres). But this game just seriously looks downgraded to my eyes.

 

[Y2Kev]

A freaking moustache? Gamers today I tell you. The moustache is actually upgraded from the TGS model. :lol

I think he was joking. You can't really tell anything from the two photos posted.

 

[ypo]

http://image2.ruliweb.com/data/news7/09m/tgs2006/22/ps3/mgs4_16.jpg

Total downgrade : (

 

[mckmas8808]

http://image2.ruliweb.com/data/news7/09m/tgs2006/22/ps3/mgs4_16.jpg

Total downgrade : (

Are you serious? I can't tell if these people are serious are not.:lol

 

[SolidSnakex]

Are you serious? I can't tell if these people are serious are not.:lol

He's being sarcastic.

 

[Moderation Unlimited]

Why are people bitching downgrade at graphics that are more than a year from being complete? Of course not everything is polished yet. Polish and performance are two things that are added to games at the end of their development cycles. When you see the final build and there is still low-res textures then you can bitch.

Still, this is yet another example of how you can't view next-gen games in still...

You have to see it in motion to believe it.

 

[jarosh]

so, question guys: is it running in 1080p now?

 

[Moderation Unlimited]

so, question guys: is it running in 1080p now?

Yes, supposedly...the best hint is the officially released pr shots...which are in 1080P resolution.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Argh stop moaning about the textures, there are more important things in life :lol

 

[Mononofu]

Argh stop moaning about the textures, there are more important things in life :lol

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Moderation Unlimited]

Other things of note:

I just discovered, almost with certainty, that the young snake at the end of the trailer is really just Old Snake with the OctoCamo mask on.

In the officially released direct-feed trailer, from 5:09 to 5:16, you can see Old Snake's greyish-white mullet coming out of the back of the mask. To add to the fact that it's Old Snake, from 5:39 to 5:43, after Snake has posed as the statue, we again see Old Snake's greyish-white mullet coming out from the back of his mask and we never see Snake take off the mask as the camera pans up to his face. He certainly isn't holding the mask in his hands, as his hands are occupied with a lighter and a cigarette.

It is my theory that Kojima was playing with words when he uses the phrase "Some Legends Must Die" because the young Snake face is an illusion to go with the immortalized, legendary vision we associate with the hero "Solid Snake".

Another two things of note:

It seems in fact that the MkII is utilizing Stelth and not OctoCamo as I first thought. If you catch the visual effect you can kind of tell, but the big give away is the difference in sound effects between the powering down of Snake's OctoCamo and the MkII's Stelth (the Stelth power-down sound effect has been the same across the board since it was first used in MGS2 on PS2). It seems that Stelth requires a large amount of power to use, and therefore, it can only be used temporarily and for very short amounts of time. OctoCamo seems to be low-power use and can be used for long periods of time. Also, Stelth seems to be a visual projection type thing, while Octocamo seems to be a dynamic pigment/ink restructuring kind of thing (as you can hear the pigment/ink move through the suit each time Snake changes the state of the OctoCamo).

 

[PnCIa]

Judging the graphics from the latest videos and screenshots there seems to be no "downgrade" for Snakes body model at all. (in terms if polys and the textures)
His hair looks a lot worse though....very unnatural and "painted".
They changed some things from E3, mainly the lightning looks much more like it did in the TGS trailer, so not so much yellow crap anymore and that is a good thing
But the environments suck right now, no depth in textures, and they are extremely lowres...maybe those textures just exist to give a general overview of how the look and feel of the area will be. (placeholder art)
The enemy soldiers don´t look that good either in certain situations right now, kinda bland texturing.
There is still much do to for Kojimas team in terms of the graphics, animations and presentation...but there is muuuuch time left.

 

[jarosh]

Yes, supposedly...the best hint is the officially released pr shots...which are in 1080P resolution.

well, that's a real bummer if true

 

[Graphics Horse]

I just discovered, almost with certainty, that the young snake at the end of the trailer is really just Old Snake with the OctoCamo mask on.
[/B]

I'm beginning to think it's purely a joke, but if it was a mask, it wouldn't be able to obscure the solid eye, or even the straps, from what we've seen.

Also I think the reason Young Snake now looks like Sean Bean is the model for Young Snake's face is the same as Old Snake, just with different textures, similar to what they did for Solidus in MGS2.

 

[Moderation Unlimited]

I'm beginning to think it's purely a joke, but if it was a mask, it wouldn't be able to obscure the solid eye, or even the straps, from what we've seen.

Also I think the reason Young Snake now looks like Sean Bean is the model for Young Snake's face is the same as Old Snake, just with different textures, similar to what they did for Solidus in MGS2.

It is a joke, or rather, a tribute to the "young Snake" we are all so used to. Oh, and the solid eye and the mask are two seperate things, which can be worn together or separately.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Oh, and the solid eye and the mask are two seperate things, which can be worn together or separately.

we never see Snake take off the mask as the camera pans up to his face. He certainly isn't holding the mask in his hands, as his hands are occupied with a lighter and a cigarette.

You've already proved he didn't take his eyepatch off

 

[Wario64]

Gamespot has some new info

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6158568.html?part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6158568

"The real skill in hiding is to avoid the most obvious places like lockers or underneath tables, because that's the kind of place that people would search first. It's best to hide in places that are already visible, because nobody would care to notice it. For example, people would search a locker that's closed, but they wouldn't check a locker that's already halfway opened. You can just hide in a dead angle of it," said Kojima.

"Up until now in the MGS series, your body was completely hidden [in places like lockers and desks]. But in MGS4, you'll be hiding in a new way. In previous MGS games, you would've hid behind pillars so that enemies couldn't see you. But in MGS4, you'd be standing in front of the pillars and using the octo-cam to blend into it."

Kojima then presented a number of slides and showed how the developers have been traveling all over the world to gather research material for MGS4, including the Middle East, South America, and Eastern Europe. "Snake is going to be going all around the world like Hitchcock or 007 [James Bond]...we've visited normal homes [in villages] as well as various locations like an iron foundry, underground passageways, warships, and military facilities."

Go to the link for more info

There's no question that MGS4 has more detailed graphics than its predecessors, especially due to its shift to high definition on the PS3. But Kojima is adding detail to Snake's movement as much as he is to the game's overall graphics. For example, if a bullet comes flying at Snake's face, he'll automatically sway his head and dodge it.Kojima assured the crowd that it won't be anything that would affect the game's difficulty level.

Awesome

 

[JB1981]

Gamespot has some new info

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6158568.html?part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6158568




Go to the link for more info

Multiple locations/environments confirmed!

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Kojima then presented a number of slides and showed how the developers have been traveling all over the world to gather research material for MGS4, including the Middle East, South America, and Eastern Europe. "Snake is going to be going all around the world like Hitchcock or 007 [James Bond]...we've visited normal homes [in villages] as well as various locations like an iron foundry, underground passageways, warships, and military facilities."

AWESOME!!

There's no question that MGS4 has more detailed graphics than its predecessors, especially due to its shift to high definition on the PS3. But Kojima is adding detail to Snake's movement as much as he is to the game's overall graphics. For example, if a bullet comes flying at Snake's face, he'll automatically sway his head and dodge it.Kojima assured the crowd that it won't be anything that would affect the game's difficulty level.

OH SH*T, REALLY REALLY AWESOME!!

 

[mckmas8808]

South America and Eastern Europe you say? Nice.