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[tnw]

I've always said if the Dems on a national level were serious about running (like Republicans generally are which is why they win) that is the ticket to win. As I've said before sadly it has almost no chance of happening but like Kobe Shaq I would fault both of them a bit if it didn't. Together they create excitement and record turnout. The Reagan Bush primary before the 1980 election was very hotly contested ( Bush calling Reaganomics "voodoo economics”) as an example but they were smart enough to ticket up. If only Dems were that serious.

I don't think it's out of the question. Obama is being very high minded about things. I hear the media talking about 'EARTHQUAKES ' and using other invective to flare up conflict between them, but I think they've been pretty cordial to each other, especially Obama.

A woman and a black man for president (with a dash of Bill mixed in there). That would be real change just on a superficial level. Dems would eat that up, and perhaps appease GAF voters. Most people under 30 seem to be pulling for Obama, the last thing we need is them defecting just because of chubby ankles and 'shrill'ness.

I just don't want to see either of them lose to be honest. I really did feel bad for hillary when she got emotional the other day, but Obama also seems like a great candidate (if Gore isn't running )

 

[nerbo]

I stand by my prediction that Clinton will win the Democratic nomination and Richardson will come in to run as her VP. He falls in line with Clinton policy, worked for Bill as Secretary of State and would pull in a lot of support with the hispanic vote, which is important.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I don't think it's out of the question. Obama is being very high minded about things. I hear the media talking about 'EARTHQUAKES ' and using other invective to flare up conflict between them, but I think they've been pretty cordial to each other, especially Obama.

A woman and a black man for president. That would be real change just on a superficial level. Dems would eat that up, and perhaps appease GAF voters. Most people under 30 seem to be pulling for Obama, the last thing we need is them defecting just because of chubby ankles and 'shrill'ness.

I still think it is highly unlikely but I think it's a brilliant ticket that not only wins this election but sets up Obama for the next elections. Sort of like Clinton Gore was supposed to be if Gore wasn't so wooden and Clinton could have kept it in his pants. So he has all the positives he brings and experience when he runs. Now that would be a real potential dynasty. Dare to dream I know

 

[RiskyChris]

I really did feel bad for hillary when she got emotional the other day,

Mission accomplished =(

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

This whole fiasco could have been avoided if Gore wanted to play ball. He would have been a shoe in.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Oh god if Clinton wins overall... there will be 0 hope left in American politics.

 

[MrSardonic]

surprised that the polls have been bullshit in every primary so far. can't believe clinton won NH...wtf is with that? did people react well to her little cry? i liked bill clinton but hillary clinton just seems wrong.

 

[lileli]

We need to stop with the myth of the independent voter. They don't exist. The ones that do exist know nothing about politics because they cannot filter information through a party id. Most people that are registered independent always vote for one party, and still have a psychological attachment to a party. I must say a few people from MSNBC did report that most "independents" in NH are basically just democrats. Also, there was one poll that got it right. It was from some University in NH. They had Clinton up by 3%. The other polls that had Obama up by 10%, most likely, used bad sampling methods. I'm taking political methodology (political research methods class; a stats class) next semester and I'm pretty sure we are going to study NH in depth.

 

[grandjedi6]

surprised that the polls have been bullshit in every primary so far. can't believe clinton won NH...wtf is with that? did people react well to her little cry? i liked bill clinton but hillary clinton just seems wrong.

Happens all the time. Remember Dean's 30% lead in New Hampshire? Yet Kerry still won NH

 

[Dan]

However, if Obama is as dependant on independents (ironic, eh?) as they're saying then once the closed primaries come then Hillary might close the deal rather quickly.

Aren't most states open? I know there's New York and a couple flyover states that are definitely closed primaries...

 

[tino]

Guys, settle down. I rather have Clinton than some republican taking the white house. Obama can't win the primary. Btw I prefer him over Hilary in a perfect world but this country is more racist than you think.

I really want a new face in the white house ever since I read The Confession of An Economic Hitman.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Aren't most states open? I know there's New York and a couple flyover states that are definitely closed primaries...

Twenty-one of the states in the US have closed primaries, they are more common then NH-style open ones. A big key state in this cycle that has a closed primary will be Florida.

 

[Amir0x]

Guys, settle down. I rather have Clinton than some republican taking the white house. Obama can't win the primary. Btw I prefer him over Hilary in a perfect world but this country is more racist than you think.

I really want a new face in the white house ever since I read The Confession of An Economic Hitman.

"I rather have a piss in my face than a shit in my mouth."

That's what this logic always seems like to me. It doesn't make any sense to just vote for terrible politicians because it may be slightly better than the other Satan. Not saying you don't legitimately like Hillary, as others do, just saying this is a stupid reason to vote for her. I refuse to vote for someone I don't like.

Also, I don't think this has anything to do with racism - at least, not at a large enough tap to actually impact the race (3% difference is not huge... and someone who would be racist, may just as likely be misogynist.)

 

[Cheebs]

Obama won't be able to win Feb 5th. He was very far behind there. He NEEDED NH to get the extra momentum. I really can't see how Hillary can lose the nomination.

The media is going to be fawning over the Comeback Kid Clinton mantra for a while now.

 

[typhonsentra]

Obama's broken the Fox News embargo. I wake up to a world in chaos....

 

[Souldriver]

So, the gest of this thread is:

"I agree more with Hillary's ideas than McCains ideas and think she'll do better than any republican, but I will vote for McCain anyway cause Hillary is a robot"

Downright ridiculous. That's on the same level of stupidity as voting for a blonde bimbo with big boobs instead of a experienced senator because the latter one doesn't have big boobs.

 

[Ripclawe]

Campaign's Internal Tracks [Rich Lowry]


Russert just said that Obama's had him up 14, and Clinton's had him up 11. Incredible...

Roland Martin on Tom Joyner show said that what made Hillary was the large amount of undecided voters broke for her. Obama after the crying incident went from up +3 with women to down -16 IRC.

 

[Cheebs]

Anyone who is democrat or democrat leaning in policy and will vote McCain over Hillary or not vote at all is fucking stupid.


Fucking.
Stupid.

That is all. This "they are both the same!" nonsense got us Bush in 2000 since angry liberals didnt vote Gore.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

The American public have the option of choosing the best candidate and they don't do it? Shocking...

 

[JayDubya]

Branduil: Take your crap elsewhere. If you want to start another abortion thread, go for it, but don't derail this thread for it.

Pretty sure Gruco and Mandark and TA took it there, yeah? How many big state liberals whining about the protection of tyranny do we have to endure before it's okay for the minority to speak, hrm, Mr. Deputy Moderator?

If the issue enters into their "lesser of evils" calculus, no doubt it enters into ours, yes?

 

[Walshicus]

We have a poll up on my works intranet asking us who we're hoping will win the US election. You can tell we're English:

Iggy Pop turned 61 [wtf?]. Who is going to be the next USA president?


Hillary Clinton - 13 votes / 30%
John Edwards - 0 votes / 0%
Fred Thompson - 0 votes / 0%
Barack Obama - 13 votes / 30%
Mick Huckabee - 1 vote / 2%
Mitt Romney - 0 votes / 0%
Rudy Giuliani - 1 vote / 2%
John McCain - 1 vote / 2%
Anyone is better than George Bush - 14 votes / 33%

I guess Anyone is better than George Bush really is the best candidate. As we leave that bloody little ætheling into the history books, any change seems welcome.

 

[thefro]

Obama won't be able to win Feb 5th. He was very far behind there. He NEEDED NH to get the extra momentum. I really can't see how Hillary can lose the nomination.

The media is going to be fawning over the Comeback Kid Clinton mantra for a while now.

He just got SEIU in Nevada, and if he gets the Culinary Workers Union in Nevada (60,000 strong) he's going to win there. He'll win South Carolina too and then he'll be fine going into Feb 5th.

 

[Schattenjäger]

Yeah, to some degree it seems like none of these people can get elected.

Giuliani - Practically booted out of his mayoral job. His big claim to fame is walking around the streets of NYC on 9/11 . . . Why was he walking around? Because like an idiot, he placed the emergency command center in World Trade Center . . . the place that was bombed before. And he is supposed to be good on terrorism? WTF?
.

that is sooo inaccurate. his second term was up and people were fighting for him to stay longer than that.

 

[tino]

"I rather have a piss in my face than a shit in my mouth."

That's what this logic always seems like to me. ......

Why Amirox, that's how the two-party system work. I don't know if we should blame the nations founding fathers or the corrupted political machine. And I usually try to avoid having to choose piss or shit unless it's presidential electron. Although I am in a state that will always vote dem I am going anyway.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

boo New Hampshire, you're messing with the obamamania, jerks

 

[typhonsentra]

He just got SEIU in Nevada, and if he gets the Culinary Workers Union in Nevada (60,000 strong) he's going to win there. He'll win South Carolina too and then he'll be fine going into Feb 5th.

Yeah, I hope he can do well in Nevada to win some attention back. Fox was making it sound like Hillary had the union vote locked up last night.

 

[nerbo]

He just got SEIU in Nevada, and if he gets the Culinary Workers Union in Nevada (60,000 strong) he's going to win there. He'll win South Carolina too and then he'll be fine going into Feb 5th.

I hope you're not depending on the SEIU to make a big dent. The SEIU endorsed Dean last time and look how that went over. :lol

 

[Stoney Mason]

Obama's broken the Fox News embargo. I wake up to a world in chaos....

lulz. He's definitely operating on the politics of change there.

 

[Stoney Mason]

just saying this is a stupid reason to vote for her. I refuse to vote for someone I don't like.

Based solely on this thread people need to drop this concept of the smart and stupid reasons to vote for candidates I would argue.

 

[Cheebs]

Amir0x would you rather not vote hillary and thus help McCain who would put up conservative SC judges?

Or hold your nose, vote Hillary and guarantee SC judges that hold your political outlook?

 

[typhonsentra]

I'd rather force Democrats to change their perception of "Electability" this time around than deal with them continuing to only allow DINOs to get the nomination.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Amir0x would you rather not vote hillary and thus help McCain who would put up conservative SC judges?

Or hold your nose, vote Hillary and guarantee SC judges that hold your political outlook?

You should never vote that way. I was a McCain supporter in 2000 and was so disappointed the party didn't nominate him that I didn't vote for Bush that year (or in 04).

There is no shame in abstaining to vote in the Presidential Election if you don't agree with the partys candidate.

 

[Cheebs]

I'd rather force Democrats to change their perception of "Electability" this time around than deal with them continuing to only allow DINOs to get the nomination.

When has there been a DINO nominated? Neither Clinton or Obama are DINO's. Nor was Kerry, Gore, or Bill.

 

[typhonsentra]

You're right, Kerry wasn't a DINO, it wasn't the word I was looking for. I'm just upset and I probably am not making much sense so I'll just shut up now.

 

[Stoney Mason]

When has there been a DINO nominated? Neither Clinton or Obama are DINO's. Nor was Kerry, Gore, or Bill.

It has nothing to do with that of course otherwise they would be lining up behind Kucinich. It is simply the my candidate or no candidate slight cult of personality approach. Which is fine. I was on that path in 2004. Let's just be honest about it though.

 

[thefro]

I hope you're not depending on the SEIU to make a big dent. The SEIU endorsed Dean last time and look how that went over. :lol

These unions are way bigger than any union in Iowa. SEIU has 17,500 members and the Culinary Workers have over 60,000.

There's only 408,301 registered Democratic voters in Nevada, so you're talking a huge chunk of people.

 

[mj1108]

I think it's time we invade New Hampshire..... bomb them off the map.

A Hillary win = the terrorists have won

 

[perryfarrell]

Some of you Hilary-haters are just silly.

I bet that if you read the detailed proposals on how to fix the country of the Obama and Hilary campaigns, you could barely tell which one was which.

Personal issues are hardly relevant--you're voting for the ideas people stand for, and Obama and Hilary really aren't that different.

 

[SRG01]

I'm really hating reddit right now. Half the front page is filled with "omgz the vote was stolen" and Diebold conspiracy theories.

 

[Karma Kramer]

You should never vote that way. I was a McCain supporter in 2000 and was so disappointed the party didn't nominate him that I didn't vote for Bush that year (or in 04).

There is no shame in abstaining to vote in the Presidential Election if you don't agree with the partys candidate.

QFT

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Some of you Hilary-haters are just silly.

I bet that if you read the detailed proposals on how to fix the country of the Obama and Hilary campaigns, you could barely tell which one was which.

Personal issues are hardly relevant--you're voting for the ideas people stand for, and Obama and Hilary really aren't that different.

One is interested in including the rest of America in their administration, the other is interested in sustaining a dynasty.

Pretty gargantuan fucking difference in motivation.

 

[perryfarrell]

One is interested in including the rest of America in their administration, the other is interested in sustaining a dynasty.

Oh yeah? Does it say in Hilary's proposals that her no. 1 priority is sustaining a dynasty? I missed that part. I thought her priorities were healthcare, foreign policy, the gap between rich and poor, and immigration. Just like Obama's.

 

[Y2Kev]

One is interested in including the rest of America in their administration, the other is interested in sustaining a dynasty.

Pretty gargantuan fucking difference in motivation.

Do you really believe this? Do you really think Hilary doesn't give a shit about America and is interested in sustaining a Clinton dynasty (of two people)?

 

[harSon]

Do you really believe this? Do you really think Hilary doesn't give a shit about America and is interested in sustaining a Clinton dynasty (of two people)?

Somewhat.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Do you really believe this? Do you really think Hilary doesn't give a shit about America and is interested in sustaining a Clinton dynasty (of two people)?

Somewhat, yeah. She's more interested in sustaining that dynasty (and the inherent power structure it sustains) than embracing Obama's message of inclusion, which she's publicly derided.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I'm really hating reddit right now. Half the front page is filled with "omgz the vote was stolen" and Diebold conspiracy theories.

Reddit went to shit sadly a long time ago. The whole bush thing radicalized them and made the site nearly useless unless you are a rabid Paul or Kucinich fan.

 

[plagiarize]

Some of you Hilary-haters are just silly.

I bet that if you read the detailed proposals on how to fix the country of the Obama and Hilary campaigns, you could barely tell which one was which.

Personal issues are hardly relevant--you're voting for the ideas people stand for, and Obama and Hilary really aren't that different.

sorry but no. a president isn't kept locked up in a box away from the eyes of the world. they have to be ambassador for their country. personality, eloquence, believability... ALL are key things for a presidential candidate.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Do you really believe this? Do you really think Hilary doesn't give a shit about America and is interested in sustaining a Clinton dynasty (of two people)?

I honestly think that a large portion of Clinton detractors believe this either consciously or subconsciously (they've never really thought about it that way).

The fact is, on some level, all of the candidates who are running are doing so with the intent of making the USA a better, stronger country -- it's just that each has a different view on how it should be done and what it means to be a "better, stronger country". I would guess that this is the overwhelming reason that they are running.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Oh yeah? Does it say in Hilary's proposals that her no. 1 priority is sustaining a dynasty? I missed that part. I thought her priorities were healthcare, foreign policy, the gap between rich and poor, and immigration. Just like Obama's.

On this forum (not saying the general public) Obama fans are a lot like Ron Paul fans. They share a vision of the world that only their candidate has the messiah like ability to effect the change we need. Completely disagree with this view of course but whatever.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

Can someone please refresh my memory: What is Mccain's belief about the wall between here and Mexico?