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[Mrbob]

One is interested in including the rest of America in their administration, the other is interested in sustaining a dynasty.

Pretty gargantuan fucking difference in motivation.

I agree.

Having said this, the Clintons are a well oiled machine and Barack better get ready. Even Bubba is getting into the whole emotional act:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=4107097

I can't believe middle aged women are falling for this.

 

[Mamesj]

Aren't any Obama supporters a little worried about him being unprotected in the white house? There are legitimate concerns that he hasn't been around long enough to have a nice group of cronies to stand up for him, if he were to become president. I forget who it was, but some major black figure said Obama should wait for another election or two before doing this...

I like the guy's attitude, but a lot of men can put on a great, confident "man face." Shit, we have to do that to get girls, it's a very basic trait :lol It also doesn't correlate with actual skill.
Strong speeches, great voice, confident looks--in my experience these are just details and not something to be taken into strong consideration.

Can someone please refresh my memory: What is Mccain's belief about the wall between here and Mexico?

I'm curious about this too.

and walking out to the Rocky soundtrack = genius :lol

 

[ronito]

LOL you guys should check out reddit. Nearly the whole first page is about Diebold election fraud.

 

[Duke Togo]

Which of the candidates claiming primary wins in New Hampshire would be more likely to get your vote for president?
Sen. Hillary Clinton 50% 55777
Sen. John McCain 50% 54720
Total Votes: 110497

LOL @ this CNN poll.

 

[painey]

good to see clinton won

 

[Cooter]

This is great. You can see how afriad GAF is of McCain. Please oh please get the nomination John. The reason given in the this thread is ridiculous. He forgave Bush for the SC smear so he is worthless. LOL

 

[Cooter]

Do you really believe this? Do you really think Hilary doesn't give a shit about America and is interested in sustaining a Clinton dynasty (of two people)?

She gives a shit more about power than America. Yes, I believe that.

 

[Stoney Mason]

This is great. You can see how afriad GAF is of McCain. Please oh please get the nomination John. The reason given in the this thread is ridiculous. He forgave Bush for the SC smear so he is worthless. LOL

LOL. I'm with you for completely different reasons. Please get the nomination John! I'd love that matchup against either candidate.

 

[Revengeance]

Sigh. Sad Obama lost, but it ain't over yet.

If Hillary wins I'll be voting for her long before I vote for anyone on the Republican side. I actually think she'd do a fine job, I just like Obama better.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

This is great. You can see how afriad GAF is of McCain. Please oh please get the nomination John. The reason given in the this thread is ridiculous. He forgave Bush for the SC smear so he is worthless. LOL

Is McCain in support of putting a wall between here and Mexico or not?

 

[Cooter]

LOL. I'm with you for completely different reasons. Please get the nomination John! I'd love that matchup against either candidate.

Are you saying you think he would get killed in the general. Is that the reason?

 

[Tamanon]

Is McCain in support of putting a wall between here and Mexico or not?

He voted yes on the fence, but is very immigrant friendly.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

He voted yes on the fence, but is very immigrant friendly.

Ugh. Does anyone realize what each of us could do individually with the millions put up for such an inane measure?

How did others in the current election vote?

 

[Tamanon]

Ugh. Does anyone realize what each of us could do individually with the millions put up for such an inane measure?

How did others in the current election vote?

http://www.issues2000.org

That'll tell you everything you need to know.

Basically, ever single congressman in the race, democrat or republican, even Paul and Kucinich, voted for the fence.

 

[Cooter]

Is McCain in support of putting a wall between here and Mexico or not?

From 2006:

"Oh yes. All of it makes sense, John. In the case of the fence, in populated areas we need a fence. There are some trackless areas through the desert that we can probably address it more effectively through use of radar sensors etc., but that's kind of a decision that the experts give us the right advice. Look, I live in a border state, but I am not sure exactly which area is best protected by building a physical fence or having the kind of virtual fence that may be more effective. But certainly in the populate areas and near them, we need a fence."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196122,00.html

 

[Stoney Mason]

Are you saying you think he would get killed in the general. Is that the reason?

I think Mccain is a nice dude who the pundit press loves which artificially drives up his numbers. I've always said the candidates I fear as a Democrat are Huckabee and Rudy. Romney and Mccain, I'm less worried about by comparison.

 

[Cheebs]

Ugh. Does anyone realize what each of us could do individually with the millions put up for such an inane measure?

How did others in the current election vote?

Obama and Hillary voted yes on the fence

 

[Cooter]

I think Mccain is a nice dude who the pundit press loves which artificially drives up his numbers. I've always said the candidates I fear as a Democrat are Huckabee and Rudy. Romney and Mccain, I'm less worried about by comparison.

I don't know why you're afraid of Huckabee. He's a likeable guy but he believes the earth is 6,000 years old. I think Hillary might even be able to beat him. Rudy I see and Romney I think would lose a general. IMO I think McCain is the most electable.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

Obama and Hillary voted yes on the fence

Ugh

What fucking idiots they all are.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. This makes me sad Cooter.

 

[Cheebs]

I don't know why you're afraid of Huckabee. He's a likeable guy but he believes the earth is 6,000 years old. I think Hillary might even be able to beat him. Rudy I see and Romney I think would lose a general. IMO I think McCain is the most electable.

The hillary machine has proven one thing last night. It can't be beat. Clintons are incapable of losing. They destroyed a 10% momentum in under a day. How could Huckabee stop that?

 

[Cooter]

The hillary machine has proven one thing last night. It can't be beat. Clintons are incapable of losing. They destroyed a 10% momentum in under a day. How could Huckabee stop that?

They didn't destroy anything. My personal opinion is that all the older white voters told the pollsters something but when it came down to it they let their old racist beliefs keep them from voting for Obama. That crying BS won't work in a general.

Ugh

What fucking idiots they all are.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. This makes me sad Cooter.

Life's depressing. Try to stay above it.

 

[alr1ght]

Has the culinary workers union announced who they are endorsing yet? MSNBC said they expected it this morning.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Has the culinary workers union announced who they are endorsing yet? MSNBC said they expected it this morning.

ABC has reported that they are backing Obama and that he'll be in Nevada Friday to accept the endorsement.

 

[Hamfam]

for a second, i read that as "ABC are endorsing Obama" and I was like....WTF?

 

[kablooey]

The Culinary Workers' Union? :lol How much sway do they hold in Nevada?

I'm still surprised Hillary won. Slate.com has an article with four theories on how she did it. It'll be interesting to see whether women continue to stick with her in the upcoming primaries, and whether Obama can win back some of the base Dems in the closed primaries. It's funny to think that Crygate might have actually been a pivotal moment in this race.

On the Republican side, I'm slightly worried about McCain. He could definitely leech away some of the white male vote in the generals against Clinton...

 

[Piper Az]

The Culinary Workers' Union? :lol How much sway do they hold in Nevada?

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/09/obama-to-get-union-endorsement/

January 9, 2008, 9:22 am
Obama to Get Union Endorsement
By Steven Greenhouse

After suffering a setback in New Hampshire on Tuesday, Senate Barack Obama will get some good news at 11 a.m. today, eastern time, when Unite Here, the union representing 460,000 apparel, laundry, hotel and restaurant workers, announces that it is endorsing him, a union official said.
The union will make the announcement simultaneously at its New York headquarters and in Las Vegas, where its local, Culinary Local 226, representing more than 60,000 casino, hotel and restaurant workers, is by far the largest and most politically potent union in Nevada.
“This is a difficult decision,” Bruce Raynor, the union’s president, said. “There are three pro-labor leading candidates, and it’s extremely difficult to choose between them.”
With its announcement, Unite Here will become the first national union to back Mr. Obama. Its leaders hope to help put him over the top in the Nevada caucuses on Jan. 19 and give him new momentum.

Mr. Raynor said, “We have a very big union in Nevada that will do a very good job for whatever candidate we endorse, and we have a very politically active membership there.”
Unite Here has been in a dispute with Senator Hillary Clinton’s campaign because its pollster and chief strategist, Mark Penn, heads a public relations firm that has represented the Cintas Corporation, a large industrial laundry company that has vigorously battled the union’s efforts to organize 17,000 Cintas workers.

 

[Cooter]

On the Republican side, I'm slightly worried about McCain. He could definitely leech away some of the white male vote in the generals against Clinton...

Don't be yet. He still has a LONG way to go. The fundie base is not too kean on him. I'm praying he gets it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Presidential hopeful Barack Obama has won an endorsement from the Nevada chapter of the Service Employees International Union, boosting his prospects against rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) in Nevada's upcoming Democratic caucuses.

The influential union claims to represent 17,500 health care and county workers in Nevada. Its executive board approved the decision in a conference call late Tuesday night, shortly after the Illinois senator finished a close second behind Clinton in the New Hampshire primary.

The announcement came as Obama was expecting to get another boost from labor in Nevada. The 60,000 member Culinary Workers Union, Local 226 was scheduled to announce its endorsement Wednesday.

SEIU President Vicky Hedderman said she believes Obama is a candidate "who could take the campaign all the way through November."

Nevada's Jan. 19 caucus is the next major Democratic nomination contest. Under union rules, the endorsement allows SEIU locals in other states to lend resources and volunteers to its Nevada counterpart on behalf of Obama.

"Nevada is a caucus state, and as Obama showed in Iowa, organization of every precinct is key to winning," Jane McAlevey, SEIU executive director, said in a statement. "SEIU Nevada members from Reno to Elko to Las Vegas are ready to make a difference in this state for our candidate."

Obama has won the support of SEIU locals and state councils in five states, including his home state.

The decision is a blow to the campaign of former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, who came in third in the New Hampshire primary.

Edwards has the backing of the 600,000-member SEIU California State Council. He had hoped to put that manpower to work in neighboring Nevada.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7812.html

Looks like Obama has Nevada

 

[Tamanon]

So, apparently the Sutton district misreported some votes, of course that's probably just routine. They had reported 0 votes for Paul instead of the 31 from that district. Odd though.

 

[grandjedi6]

Obama, Edwards and Richardson have once again removed themselves from the Michigan primary. So Hillary is, again, guarenteed 100% of 0 delegates :lol I think Cooter has more sway on the election now than Michigan

http://www.michigandems.com/Guide.pdf

 

[alr1ght]

probably stretching

http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Decision2008/story?id=4107883&page=1
Ballot Changes Cited in Vote's Discrepancy With Polls
Clinton's Favorable Placement on Ballots May Account for Part of Poll Mistakes

OPINION By JON A. KROSNICK, Professor, Stanford University
Jan. 9, 2008

Without a doubt, a big source of the discrepancy between the pre-election surveys and the election outcome in New Hampshire is the order of candidates' names on the ballot and in the surveys.

Our analysis of all recent primaries in New Hampshire showed that there was always a big primacy effect — big-name, big-vote-getting candidates got 3 percent or more votes more when listed first on the ballot than when listed last.

Until this year, New Hampshire rotated candidate name order from precinct to precinct, which allowed us to do that analysis.

This year, the secretary of state changed the procedure so the names were alphabetical starting with a randomly selected letter, in all precincts.

The randomly selected letter this year was Z.

As a result, Joe Biden was first on every ballot, Hillary Clinton was near the top of the list (and the first serious contender listed) and Barack Obama was close to last of the 21 candidates listed.

Thus, I'll bet that Clinton got at least 3 percent more votes than Obama simply because she was listed close to the top.

Most, if not all, of the pre-election telephone polls rotated name order from respondent to respondent, which meant name order did not distort their overall results. Failing to incorporate the name order effect that probably happened in the voting booth is therefore probably partly responsible for the polls' inaccuracy.

More importantly, if New Hampshire had rotated name order in the voting booth as it has always done in the past, the race would probably have been too close to call without a recount and might even have been an Obama victory.

 

[Cooter]

Obama, Edwards and Richardson have once again removed themselves from the Michigan primary. So Hillary is, again, guarenteed 100% of 0 delegates I think Cooter has more sway on the election now than Michigan

:lol

Well, I do live in Nevada.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Obama, Edwards and Richardson have once again removed themselves from the Michigan primary. So Hillary is, again, guarenteed 100% of 0 delegates :lol I think Cooter has more sway on the election now than Michigan

http://www.michigandems.com/Guide.pdf

Yup I'm in Michigan; I was going to just vote for Biden but obviously I can't do that anymore. Hmm, I think I'll skip the entire thing.

 

[Tamanon]

So what would happen if after the Michigan primary, the DNC decides to let those delegates in anyways? Suddenly whoever campaigned there after being told it was worthless would get the delegates?

 

[grandjedi6]

So what would happen if after the Michigan primary, the DNC decides to let those delegates in anyways? Suddenly whoever campaigned there after being told it was worthless would get the delegates?

Unlike the republican party, the Democratic has no policy to give back delegates. Even if Michigan were to move their date back they wouldn't get any delegates

 

[Tamanon]

Unlike the republican party, the Democratic has no policy to give back delegates. Even if Michigan were to move their date back they wouldn't get any delegates

Oh, I misjudged what Cheebs implied earlier then about the delegates being there once the election was decided.

 

[timmy]

Yup I'm in Michigan; I was going to just vote for Biden but obviously I can't do that anymore. Hmm, I think I'll skip the entire thing.

I'm totally voting for Kucinich just because I can.

edit: and because he's awesome.

 

[Stoney Mason]

There was no shortage of polls going into the New Hampshire primary in 2008 and it looks like we all missed the mark on the Democratic side. This will require a lot of scrutiny in the coming days and weeks, but here are some initial thoughts on what has been happening:

According to the exit polls, 18% of the voters said that they made up their minds on primary day. That is just an unprecedented number. I have polled many races, especially close ones, where 4% to 8% have said they finally decided on their vote the day of the election and that can wreak havoc on those of us who are in the business of capturing pre-election movements and trends. But nearly one in five this time?
It looks like the always feisty voters in both Iowa and New Hampshire have rejected pre-election coronations. In the case of Iowa, Democratic voters said that Mrs. Clinton is not inevitable, while in New Hampshire they were not ready to endorse the Obama train without checking the engine.
The compressed schedule of the two events may have had an impact. Normally the winning candidate gets an initial big bounce out of Iowa, and then plateaus. Then the next primary race begins. With less than five full days, Obama got his bounce in New Hampshire, then the settling down period began on the last day – under the radar screen.
My polling showed Clinton doing well on the late Sunday night and all day Monday – she was in a 2-point race in that portion of the polling. But since our methods call for a three-day rolling average, we had to legitimately factor the huge Obama numbers on Friday and Saturday – thus his 12 point average lead. Unfortunately, one day or a day–and–a–half does not make a trend and we ran out of time.
Going into the New Hampshire primary, we certainly did see Clinton holding on to a significant lead among women and older voters. But we were focusing on Obama’s massive lead among younger and independent voters. We seem to have missed the huge turnout of older women that apparently put Clinton over the top.
We expected that Obama would receive the lion’s share of independents and drain the Republican primary of these voters. It now appears that, perhaps with a sense that Obama had a lock on the Democratic side, independents felt free to vote on the Republican side and reward their hero, John McCain.
We will pour through the data and try to come up with something more definitive, but those are my early observations. There is much speculation that Senator Clinton’s crying incident may have offered voters – especially women – a peek at the human side of someone who is often seen as scripted. I think she also scored points during the ABC debate Saturday night when she declared, amid a discussion about the country’s desire for a change in direction, that electing a woman would represent a big change in itself. Her numbers did go up in that last 24–hour period.

On the other side, most of us did a whole lot better coming close to the numbers on the Republican side of the aisle. But this is one of those cases that remind us that pre-election polls are guides to voter attitudes and shifts. All things considered in this and other cases, we pollsters still do a creditable job.

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1419

 

[Particle Physicist]

I think she also scored points during the ABC debate Saturday night when she declared, amid a discussion about the country’s desire for a change in direction, that electing a woman would represent a big change in itself.

i was really annoyed when she pulled that card. i dont think ive heard obama say anything like that so far.. i knew that would get her some extra votes. pretty cheap i think. but maybe obama should start playing her game if he wants to stay in this race.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I think what you are seeing with the polls is:

1) Unexpected record turnouts (pollsters seem to be missing people that are "likely voters")
2) VERY indecisive UNDECIDED voters. Most seem to be making their minds up as they are in the booth or the day of the election.

It's why you are seeing these massive swings in percentages as the elections draw closer.

Look at me mom, I'm a pundit!

 

[Souldriver]

Look at me mom, I'm a pundit!

Didn't you say that when the first results started sipping in though?



(Honest question)

 

[NWO]

Why the fuck are people making a big deal out of these posts? It's the internet, it has no real relevance to life. What you say is generally snap judgement thoughts and just to get a rise out of people. I'm sure most of these people would think a great deal before saying things like that in public.

Kinda odd that people get worked up over what people say on Xbox Live but then they do the same shit in this thread and people defend it.

Don't really get how calling somebody a cunt is acceptable but if you say that's gay you get banned. Either ban all hate or don't ban any. Just because there are no women are on this board doesn't mean its right to bash them hatefully. What's that saying again from that anti Muslim email thread, just replace Black with the word Muslim and see if it becomes acceptable? I'd like to see how many people in this thread would be banned if cunt turned into nigger, bitch turned into monkey, and vagina turned into dark skin.

If I am not mistaken, Obama and Clinton share near identical voting records in the Senate.

I don't know about you people, but Obama, Edwards, and Clinton are virtually the same to me.

Obama's actual record is strikingly-close to Hillary's, and as I mentioned before he's to the right of her on a few issues. Oh, but she doesn't have "hope" on her side!!

Well, here's their record on the 69 votes concerning Iraq (they agreed on 68 of them .. scroll all the way down for the votes). I will dig up more on their records on general policy issues (I would just assume they are all very similar .. except for issues where each candidate "ducked" the vote (sometimes for legitimate personal reasons .. other times for political ones.)

That's probably because they aren't that different. I'm amazed how some people would let a Republican Candidate (not named Ron Paul) become President over Hilliary and consider themselves to be Democrats. I just lean Democratic and I'd want her in the White House over people like Huckabee, Romney, and Thompson.

 

[thefro]

Yup I'm in Michigan; I was going to just vote for Biden but obviously I can't do that anymore. Hmm, I think I'll skip the entire thing.

You need to go vote and vote "UNCOMMITTED"... that keeps Hillary from automatically getting the delegates if they end up being seated somehow.

 

[Hellsing321]

I can't see anyway Hillary can actually win the presidency if nominated because she is just so polarizing in her own god damn party. Reading through this thread you can see the contempt for her in her own party and people are saying they'd vote Rep just so they don't vote for her.

 

[grandjedi6]

You need to go vote and vote "UNCOMMITTED"... that keeps Hillary from automatically getting the delegates if they end up being seated somehow.

They won't. Normaly I'm in the belief that you should always vote but there really isn't any point since the Michigan primary is pointless now

 

[Fatalah]

Look, as much as I like Obama, his speeches need have more steak and less sizzle.

This is why I like Edwards out of the top 3 dems. I really hope no candidate wins based on trivial things.

To me, Edwards and Clinton were great at last Saturday's CNN debate. Maybe the people in NH were a little too afraid to give their vote to Obama. You have to sit back and think, why am I boarding his hype train?

Can't wait for Super Duper Tuesday, which actually makes a difference this year!

 

[Cheebs]

Look, as much as I like Obama, his speeches need have more steak and less sizzle.

This is why I like Edwards out of the top 3 dems. I really hope no candidate wins based on trivial things.

To me, Edwards and Clinton were great at last Saturday's CNN debate. Maybe the people in NH were a little too afraid to give their vote to Obama. You have to sit back and think, why am I boarding his hype train?

Can't wait for Super Duper Tuesday, which actually makes a difference this year!

How can being like Edwards help him when Edwards is pretty much out of this race?

 

[ToxicAdam]

Didn't you say that when the first results started sipping in though?



(Honest question)

yea, I probably should have linked the comments. Those comments were after Hillary was already announced the winner and the discussion was WHY the polls were so wrong. Some were saying that the voters lied, some said election fraud, etc. I think it was just the unprecedented amount of people that were voting and were not deciding on who to vote for until the very end.


I was like everyone else and assumed that Obama had a decent lead (5-7 points) based on his Iowa showing. I didn't think Hillz had the time to overcome that.

 

[Cheebs]

Yup I'm in Michigan; I was going to just vote for Biden but obviously I can't do that anymore. Hmm, I think I'll skip the entire thing.

I am voting on the Republican side purely because it makes a difference.

 

[woeds]

So, Obama now has 2 big unions backing him in Nevada, worth about 72.000 people together. Is that a lot? I have no idea how big Nevada is compared to NH (where the turnout was about 220.000 I believe)