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[schuelma]

My other argument about Wii has always been that Nintendo themselves don't put in the required effort to push NEW HARDCORE IPs alongside their traditional franchises or their non-gamer garbage. Who knows how much money they put into advertising Wii Music... but if they put some of that same effort into establishing a new hardcore IP, it must just thrive. They have so much fucking money, yet Microsoft and Sony are practically shitting out compelling new hardcore IPs (or at least attempting new shit), while Nintendo just whores the old crap and dedicates new resources to WII-FUCKING-HORRIBLE-MUSIC.

You guys remember Disaster and Captain Rainbow? What a great advertising campaign, saying nothing about the game until like three days before release!

And frankly, those don't even have remotely near the effort of even one of Nintendo's "midline" franchises, like Metroid.

I think this is mostly agreeing with you, but we saw at their October P.C that they have a lot of core stuff coming, at least for Japan...

Of course, the difference is those games are virtually all externally made and I think we already know what type of ad push they're going to get.

So on the one hand, I don't think its fair to say "Nintendo doesn't care about the core".

On the other hand, they seem to be making it very difficult for any 1st party non-Mario branded franchise to succeed.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Yes Core games sell well, just try to convince a publisher of that.

I go into a board room at EA and present my plans for an epic RPG or Sci Fi game. After the demonstration I say that I think it should be a Wii game. They will probably say that they think this is a better fit for PS360.

More then likely.

It really looks like the Wii lineup will be rounded out by Japanese 3rd parties. They see it's American marketshare exploding, they see it's Euro numbers exploding, they see their home numbers brutalizing the competing consoles, and they see a large market on a cheap platform.

American developers see the Wii in a much different light. The PS3/360 still has larger combined marketshare, and American made games are only assured sales in one region. When the Wii is about 5 million units past the combined PS3/360 I can see some minds shifting in America. But that's still a bit away.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Not really. Considering that the PS3 base is almost half size of the 360 base. They're doing very good actually.

I think we should probably wait until they're turning a profit on the PS3 before we say they're doing 'very good'. It could definitely be a hell of a lot worse, taking the PS3's first year into account, though.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Yes Core games sell well, just try to convince a publisher of that.

I go into a board room at EA and present my plans for an epic RPG or Sci Fi game. After the demonstration I say that I think it should be a Wii game. They will probably say that they think this is a better fit for PS360.

And there's the problem. Very few publishers are striving to achieve a middle ground, instead opting to keep all of their best games on the HD consoles.

I'm not saying that the 360/PS3 shouldn't get these games - quite the opposite in fact. A lot of these types of games should be on the HD consoles because the power of the 360/PS3 is so integral to them.

That said, there's many games that could potentially be a superior experience on Wii purely because of the controls (especially with MotionPlus). I'm not talking about games that have come out (or will come out) on the HD consoles, but rather types of games that are radically different and make the remote integral to the experience. Some 3rd party games have done this already - look at Boom Blox as an example - but none of these games have been of the same scope or quality as the best 360/PS3 efforts.

The problem is that few developers are willing to push this envelope. Instead they're sticking to the safer route of putting their best games on 360/PS3, something that I have to question considering how many studios are being shut-down and how many are losing their jobs.

They give the scraps to Wii when they really could be taking advantage of the controller and delivering some truly impressive content. I'm not saying that all the best games should go to Wii - far from it, in fact - but on the flipside they're barely giving the Wii anything, when there's a goldmine that's just sitting there waiting for someone to make a real effort.

 

[Redd]

Big reason why I don't expect(would like to have) big games on my Nintendo Wii. Just doesn't seem like Nintendo wants to make more mature titles and why should they. They make a killing on the games they've been making for years. Before you could expect third parties to pick up the slack but they've moved on after the SNES. Big reason why I own more than one console but it WOULD be nice if I could get by with just one. To bad I like so many Nintendo made games and I follow wherever the Final Fantasy series goes so I'm stuck owning multiple gaming platforms.

Eh I'm better off in the long run because I love many of Sony's First Party games as well.

 

[onipex]

What other console is Nintendo going to release their core games on? The 360? Come on, they have no choice and Nintendo knows they can make $$$ of them because they have the audience.

Did they or did they not set the system up to be a unique, family friendly, low cost development platform? Hey, I'll agree that Wii Sports it better than 95% of the third party games on the console and in doing so sent out a loud clear message to publisher that said..."more of this please" No wonder Fable II isn't dropping on the console. A publisher readying a 20 million core game for the machine is going against what the entire console and much of its audience and impetus stands for.

They also came out to say multiple times that they hoped third parties would make the type of core games that they don't. They went to Ubisoft to get them to make Red Steel and even though that title sold well third parties ignored the core market on Wii.

That being said the fault still is still Nintendo's. Developers start working on games for a console 2 years before they launch and only a few knew about the Wii maybe one year before it was released. Many third party devs did not know about it until E3. Many didn't have faith in it until the holiday after it launched and some didn't bother with it until the summer after that.

Developers put all their money and resources into the HD platforms , because there was no Nintendo console to prepare for. When they found out about it and it became a hit they were caught with their pants down.They had only PS2 and Gamecube resources to use to get games out quick. A lot of companies were losing to much money to fully invest into a third platform ( all the layoffs and closings are proof of this I think), so Wii resources are built slow or maybe not at all.

 

[HK-47]

I think we should probably wait until they're turning a profit on the PS3 before we say they're doing 'very good'. It could definitely be a hell of a lot worse, taking the PS3's first year into account, though.

SCEA headquarters could light on fire and all 40 gig PS3s could start oozing tar from their blu-ray drives as well. That certainly would be worse

 

[Fredescu]

I still come back and see people spouting off the same untruths pages later.

To summarise: on the one hand there aren't many quality games being made for the Wii, on the other hand the games being made on all other systems aren't good quality. If I were a partisan troll, I might suggest that maybe you don't like games. I like to think that I'm not though, so which half of the argument do I have wrong?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

SCEA headquarters could light on fire and all 40 gig PS3s could start oozing tar from their blu-ray drives as well. That certainly would be worse

Or imagine a nightmare scenario wherein GAF's most hated company SEGA is providing the PS3 with the most high quality third party exclusives. :S

 

[schuelma]

Or imagine a nightmare scenario wherein GAF's most hated company SEGA is providing the PS3 with the most high quality third party exclusives. :S

What a crazy world that would be.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Here's some quotes and graphs from Iwata from the financial results briefing at the end of October.

You can check out the rest of the translated financial meeting slides and Iwata talk. [nintendo.co.jp]

This is incredibly comforting. Yay!

Glad I came back into this thread, if only for Amir0x's post. I hope to see more posts like that as time goes on. Less hate all around is a good thing.

Yes Core games sell well, just try to convince a publisher of that.

I go into a board room at EA and present my plans for an epic RPG or Sci Fi game. After the demonstration I say that I think it should be a Wii game. They will probably say that they think this is a better fit for PS360.

That's why Wii needs more developers like High Voltage- at this point it doesn't matter if The Conduit is good or not (though that'll help), they've become the de facto standard for what third parties should be aiming for. Self-fund themselves for a little while, racking up hype over "omg core Wii game", then choose a publisher. They're actually really smart.

Sega has been really good in publishing these titles too; House of the Dead: Overkill, Madworld, and now The Conduit- if HVS is the standard for Wii developers, Sega is the standard for Wii publishers.

And I hope more follow both examples in the future.

To shift the argument a bit, nobody sees a problem with this?

The other day we were going through Nintendo's first party lineup for Wii, and the amount of stuff that relies on, say, Mario to sell is really obscene. I know Nintendo fans can absorb that shit like the spongey fanboys they are, and they love hugging their Princesss Peach plushies, but Mario's world and universe has been abused to hell. Why do they need to always plaster him in every product they make or at least in some way relate him?

Smash Bros., Mario Strikers Charged, Mario Baseball, Wario Ware, Wario Shake, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, Mario Kart Wii, Mario Party 8, Dr. Mario WiiWare... this is just the first two years of the system.

Well first, I wouldn't lop in Wario with the Mario series. It's true he's from it, but he's really made his own brand.

My other argument about Wii has always been that Nintendo themselves don't put in the required effort to push NEW HARDCORE IPs alongside their traditional franchises or their non-gamer garbage. Who knows how much money they put into advertising Wii Music... but if they put some of that same effort into establishing a new hardcore IP, it must just thrive. They have so much fucking money, yet Microsoft and Sony are practically shitting out compelling new hardcore IPs (or at least attempting new shit), while Nintendo just whores the old crap and dedicates new resources to WII-FUCKING-HORRIBLE-MUSIC.

You guys remember Disaster and Captain Rainbow? What a great advertising campaign, saying nothing about the game until like three days before release!

And frankly, those don't even have remotely near the effort of even one of Nintendo's "midline" franchises, like Metroid.

The reason Nintendo relies on the tried-and-true while MS/Sony "shit out new IPs" is because Nintendo has the history to back it up. MS's 1st party lineup is barren save Halo, and Sony only got serious about this whole "first party thing" last gen/this gen. If either of them had the depth of Nintendo's first party catologue, they'd be whoring it too, and possibly much worse.

Honestly, Nintendo's "whoring" of Mario isn't so bad as the games are usually at least standard quality. (Of your list, only Mario Baseball and Mario Party 8 have been deemed objectively "bad". The rest fill genre niches quite nicely while appealing to core and casual alike because of Mario.)

 

[_Alkaline_]

To shift the argument a bit, nobody sees a problem with this?

The other day we were going through Nintendo's first party lineup for Wii, and the amount of stuff that relies on, say, Mario to sell is really obscene. I know Nintendo fans can absorb that shit like the spongey fanboys they are, and they love hugging their Princesss Peach plushies, but Mario's world and universe has been abused to hell. Why do they need to always plaster him in every product they make or at least in some way relate him?

Smash Bros., Mario Strikers Charged, Mario Baseball, Wario Ware, Wario Shake, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, Mario Kart Wii, Mario Party 8, Dr. Mario WiiWare... this is just the first two years of the system.

My other argument about Wii has always been that Nintendo themselves don't put in the required effort to push NEW HARDCORE IPs alongside their traditional franchises or their non-gamer garbage. Who knows how much money they put into advertising Wii Music... but if they put some of that same effort into establishing a new hardcore IP, it must just thrive. They have so much fucking money, yet Microsoft and Sony are practically shitting out compelling new hardcore IPs (or at least attempting new shit), while Nintendo just whores the old crap and dedicates new resources to WII-FUCKING-HORRIBLE-MUSIC.

You guys remember Disaster and Captain Rainbow? What a great advertising campaign, saying nothing about the game until like three days before release!

And frankly, those don't even have remotely near the effort of even one of Nintendo's "midline" franchises, like Metroid.

I agree that Nintendo should put more effort into marketing their lesser-known core IPs.

The reason why stuff like Wii Fit, Wii Music, Wii Sports, etc gets so much attention from them is because these games are designed for the casuals, who unlike us are an audience who will never find out about the game from gaming websites or magazines. Nintendo have to put millions into marketing these games because otherwise the intended audience wouldn't know about them.

On the other hand, Nintendo seem to think that just because core gamers like us check gaming websites every day and know about these games, that this will enough to see the success of core IPs, particularly new ones like Disaster, and thus believe they don't have to put in any further effort. Clearly though this approach isn't working for them, and it's disappointing to see that the underwhelming sales of games like Metroid (even though it did sell over a million), Batallion Wars, Disaster, Wario Land, etc could have been avoided if Nintendo actually put some effort into marketing these games.

 

[HK-47]

I agree that Nintendo should put more effort into marketing their lesser-known core IPs.

The reason why stuff like Wii Fit, Wii Music, Wii Sports, etc gets so much attention from them is because these games are designed for the casuals, who unlike us are an audience who will never find out about the game from gaming websites or magazines. Nintendo have to put millions into marketing these games because otherwise the intended audience wouldn't know about them.

On the other hand, Nintendo seem to think that just because core gamers like us check gaming websites every day and know about these games, that this will enough to see the success of core IPs, particularly new ones like Disaster, and thus believe they don't have to put in any further effort. Clearly though this approach isn't working for them, and it's disappointing to see that the underwhelming sales of games like Metroid (even though it did sell over a million), Batallion Wars, Disaster, Wario Land, etc could have been avoided if Nintendo actually put some effort into marketing these games.

Not that we have up to date MP3 numbers but it was on its way to being the third best selling Metroid ever. Just an FYI

 

[Owzers]

I think it's :


People would rather play an average/above average game in a genre they like than a good/great game in a genre they don't.


The more genres you like, the more options you have. My least favorite genres are SRPGs and Puzzle games, but even i'm interested in stuff like Boom Blox and Valkyria Chronicles. Which is why i don't get people who say " i don't like shooters". Shooters is such a vague term that covers lottttttttttttts of different types of action games. I can understand not liking first person perspective games if they make you dizzy or simulation racers because they are tech-heavy, but if someone said " oh i don't like racers", well maybe developers just haven't made the right one for you yet.

 

[HK-47]

Or imagine a nightmare scenario wherein GAF's most hated company SEGA is providing the PS3 with the most high quality third party exclusives. :S

Geez, I think I'll stick to the blue pill thank you. Thats just too scary

 

[_Alkaline_]

Not that we have up to date MP3 numbers but it was on its way to being the third best selling Metroid ever. Just an FYI

Oh, I know. It passed Echoes a while ago and is nearly at 1.5 million worldwide, which is very decent. But it still could've been more, Nintendo never really gave it to chance. Yeah, I know it's Metroid and thus it's audience is always going to be a limited one, but Nintendo's marketing for that game was pretty deplorable.

 

[Amir0x]

The reason Nintendo relies on the tried-and-true while MS/Sony "shit out new IPs" is because Nintendo has the history to back it up. MS's 1st party lineup is barren save Halo, and Sony only got serious about this whole "first party thing" last gen/this gen. If either of them had the depth of Nintendo's first party catologue, they'd be whoring it too, and possibly much worse.

Honestly, Nintendo's "whoring" of Mario isn't so bad as the games are usually at least standard quality. (Of your list, only Mario Baseball and Mario Party 8 have been deemed objectively "bad". The rest fill genre niches quite nicely while appealing to core and casual alike because of Mario.)

No offense but that's just bright-eyed fanboy gibberish. And it meets the criteria for fanboy plushie hugging. Yes, you're right: some of these games might meet some arena of "standard quality", and you may appreciate once again fucking King Bowser with a turtle shell. That's nice. You can probably continue doing that for the rest of your days until you die. If you're the type that believes Nintendo makes some sort of "magic" unachievable by other developers, than it doesn't matter what I or anyone else writes.

But it's fucking lazy. Microsoft, if they're not making it themselves they're ordering dozens of the best developers in the world to make it for them. They're paying that shit out. And they're securing it as exclusive. Sony has tons of old IPs AND new IPs aimed at hardcores in the pipeline, first-party wise. Some of it is bad, some of it is great. But no one can say they're not trying in that regard.

Nintendo is just fit to sort of exist in terms of hardcore properties. Their catalogue neither shows the same brilliance as old Nintendo or the same drive for creativity as the old Nintendo. They're just existing. They're just touching some sweet spots for their hardcore slavish fanbase who will eat whatever the fuck they make up, and then allow those same individuals to construct a defense for them because they'll defend anything.

I'm not saying it's not a winning strategy. It IS a winning strategy. How many times have I purchased the latest and greatest Mario game? But at least I am self-aware, I don't make excuses for their pretty absurd laziness. Sony and Microsoft may not have the focus and drive of the best Nintendo efforts, but they certainly have the drive to push material to hardcore gamers that is both new, creative and gutsy. And marketed. And fucking bells up with huge budgets. It's not lazy, at least, they put the effort in.

 

[HK-47]

Oh, I know. It passed Echoes a while ago and is nearly at 1.5 million worldwide, which is very decent. But it still could've been more, Nintendo never really gave it to chance. Yeah, I know it's Metroid and thus it's audience is always going to be a limited one, but Nintendo's marketing for that game was pretty deplorable.

It reached 1.5 million a while ago I thought. It needs 1.8+ to pass Metroid 2.

 

[onipex]

Oh, I know. It passed Echoes a while ago and is nearly at 1.5 million worldwide, which is very decent. But it still could've been more, Nintendo never really gave it to chance. Yeah, I know it's Metroid and thus it's audience is always going to be a limited one, but Nintendo's marketing for that game was pretty deplorable.

I think Nintendo figured that most people that wanted the game already had the Wii. Metroid has never been a system seller.

 

[HK-47]

I think Nintendo figured that most people that wanted the game already had the Wii. Metroid has never been a system seller.

It is for me

 

[_Alkaline_]

It reached 1.5 million a while ago I thought. It needs 1.8+ to pass Metroid 2.

It did? Well, it was at 1.31 in March, so it would probably be past 1.5 now.

I think Nintendo figured that most people that wanted the game already had the Wii. Metroid has never been a system seller.

Probably not. The thing about Metroid is that it's a niche series with a pretty big fanbase. It's actually not very well known outside of the core gaming community, certainly not to the extent of many other Nintendo franchises. Consequently it's never going to sell at the levels of those IPs, despite its quality.

Nevertheless, what did Nintendo do for the game? A crappy commercial that completely mis-marketed the game, and a channel, which to be fair was a neat idea but lacked solid execution. Definitely not the type of attention such a great game, which by the way proved that IR controls could enhance FPS, deserved to receive.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

No offense but that's just bright-eyed fanboy gibberish. And it meets the criteria for fanboy plushie hugging. Yes, you're right: some of these games might meet some arena of "standard quality", and you may appreciate once again fucking King Bowser with a turtle shell. That's nice. You can probably continue doing that for the rest of your days until you die. If you're the type that believes Nintendo makes some sort of "magic" unachievable by other developers, than it doesn't matter what I or anyone else writes.

For the record, I don't believe this, no. And you'll find no Nintendo plushies in my house.

I'm not saying it's not a winning strategy. It IS a winning strategy. How many times have I purchased the latest and greatest Mario game? But at least I am self-aware, I don't make excuses for their pretty absurd laziness. Sony and Microsoft may not have the focus and drive of the best Nintendo efforts, but they certainly have the drive to push material to hardcore gamers that is both new, creative and gutsy. And marketed. And fucking bells up with huge budgets. It's not lazy, at least, they put the effort in.

Then your complaint is? You say you want them to stop being lazy, to put some effort in, to increase the budgets, and they've done exactly that. Galaxy is Nintendo's finest moment and it's because of now-Nintendo, not old-Nintendo. Brawl and Twilight Princess both cost fucktons to make.

You want new IPs, but not only that, heavily marketed new IPs. I say, this generation isn't over yet, and that there is an interesting trend: as time goes on, Nintendo produces more and more games. But the "old standbies" still only show up once a generation. Thus, Nintendo has been making more IPs this gen and the last. You're right in not many of them are Metroid-level, yet, but they're still creating new IPs. I'm not in charge of Nintendo's marketing department, but I wouldn't say that games like Disaster and Captain Rainbow have much wide appeal. But Nintendo isn't the only one guilty of undermarketing- look at Capcom and Okami.

It's hard to take you seriously though when you sling around the term "hardcore" like it's a be-all, end-all.

What I take away from your argument is this: you'd rather have grey and brown shooters like Resistence, Killzone, and [insert Microsoft IP] than one genre-defining platformer from Nintendo just because it has Mario's face on it. But the thing is, quality beats quantity every time.

 

[ksamedi]

From what I understand, Nintendo is much more interested in bringing new gameplay concepts rather then creating new characters. All of their games are somehow still relevant today. Most new Sony or Microsoft (or any other westers dev) IP is just a new paint job on existing gameplay ideas. I think they mask what truly lies underneath, another samey game.

 

[Amir0x]

Then your complaint is? You say you want them to stop being lazy, to put some effort in, to increase the budgets, and they've done exactly that. Galaxy is Nintendo's finest moment and it's because of now-Nintendo, not old-Nintendo. Brawl and Twilight Princess both cost fucktons to make.

Without recycling everything I've said, I'll suggest you read my previous comments on this page and the last for an extremely clear and concise recital of what my complaint is, for there is no simpler way for me to put it than I already have.

Twilight Princess is a Gamecube game, Brawl is another whoring of their franchise collection (not to mention I think it's out-and-out awful gameplay wise), and Super Mario Galaxy - while I agree it's phenomenal - does not somehow break free of my theory that all Nintendo has for the hardcore is their franchise whoring and their non-consequential nothing titles that they don't support with an ounce of advertising.

You want new IPs, but not only that, heavily marketed new IPs. I say, this generation isn't over yet, and that there is an interesting trend: as time goes on, Nintendo produces more and more games. But the "old standbies" still only show up once a generation. Thus, Nintendo has been making more IPs this gen and the last. You're right in not many of them are Metroid-level, yet, but they're still creating new IPs. I'm not in charge of Nintendo's marketing department, but I wouldn't say that games like Disaster and Captain Rainbow have much wide appeal. But Nintendo isn't the only one guilty of undermarketing- look at Capcom and Okami.

All I read from you is excuses and more excuses. Faith where there should be none.

"Well this generation isn't over yet!" "Well they're not the only ones guilty of undermarketing!" "Well the old standby's only show up once per generation, it doesn't matter that they've released 10 Mario-related titles in two years on Wii alone!"

It's hard to take you seriously though when you sling around the term "hardcore" like it's a be-all, end-all.

It is the be-all, end-all on a fucking hardcore gaming forum on the internet. If this is not explicitly clear at this point, then you and others will never understand why GAF seems so bizarrely out-of-touch with the public at large. We're NOT the public at large. We're the hardcore gaming community. We want games for us. And if we're not getting those games for us, or we're seeing a lack of effort, we're going to point it out. If you are to concede that Nintendo doesn't focus on us anymore, that the bulk of their effort is geared toward people who are not us, then I think that is all the answer we ever need in future discussions.

I am fine with that middle ground.

What I take away from your argument is this: you'd rather have grey and brown shooters like Resistence, Killzone, and [insert Microsoft IP] than one genre-defining platformer from Nintendo just because it has Mario's face on it. But the thing is, quality beats quantity every time.

No, on a case-by-case basis I would damn well take Mario Galaxy over A Resistance or over A Gears of War. But I will not hold the console in high regard, if the best Nintendo can do for us is slut Mario around like a dime corner prostitute.

All of their games are somehow still relevant today. Most new Sony or Microsoft (or any other westers dev) IP is just a new paint job on existing gameplay ideas.

But here's the problem. With the exception of Super Mario Galaxy, almost ALL their Wii franchise extensions - with Mario or without - are exclusively "new paint jobs on existing gameplay ideas." Waggle does not somehow make "new ideas" out of old gameplay concepts, I hate to break it to you.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

All I read from you is excuses and more excuses. Faith where there should be none.

"Well this generation isn't over yet!" "Well they're not the only ones guilty of undermarketing!" "Well the old standby's only show up once per generation, it doesn't matter that they've released 10 Mario-related titles in two years on Wii alone!"

True, but they're excuses you have yet to respond to.

It is the be-all, end-all on a fucking hardcore gaming forum on the internet. If this is not explicitly clear at this point, then you and others will never understand why GAF seems so bizarrely out-of-touch with the public at large. We're NOT the public at large. We're the hardcore gaming community. We want games for us. And if we're not getting those games for us, or we're seeing a lack of effort, we're going to point it out. If you are to concede that Nintendo doesn't focus on us anymore, that the bulk of their effort is geared toward people who are not us, then I think that is all the answer we ever need in future discussions.

I am fine with that middle ground.

That wasn't my point- I was more talking about the term itself. "HARDXCORE", the definitions of which are so fuzzy. Who decides what is and isn't hardcore? That's where the term breaks down. Some consider Madden hardcore, some don't. It's not clear-cut.

No, on a case-by-case basis I would damn well take Mario Galaxy over A Resistance or over A Gears of War. But I will not hold the console in high regard, if the best Nintendo can do for us is slut Mario around like a dime corner prostitute.

The problem is that you subjectively do not like the Mario spinoffs, while obviously a lot of people do, and whether you like it or not, a lot of them are, to use your words, "hardcore gamers". Most of them review decently to great. I don't know what Mario did to you as a kid, but it doesn't warrant this irrational hatred of anything that has his face on it. He has become an icon. Because he's in a game, it immediately appeals to everyone, which is what Nintendo's always been about. Most of their franchises have always appealed to children, adults, etc. Not much has really changed this generation in that regard.

The point is that as long as these Mario games continue to be of standard quality there's no reason to hate them so blindly just because they're Mario games. They fill a wide variety of different genre niches and immediately appeal to everyone, "core" and "casual", because of Mario. "Whoring out the franchise" is not a good enough reason to get worked into such a fit.

 

[Amir0x]

Yes there is reason. There is no universe in the entire world that holds that sort of appeal to me across every goddamn genre. They could slap EARTHBOUND on everything from kart racing to fucking baseball to fucking surgery sims, and I'd still start to hate it after the five billionth time.

If all Microsoft could do is release Halo Kart and Halo Fighting and Halo Raider and Halo: The Haloing in Halotown, I'd be all "fuck this shit get some new material."

It is really fucking easy to slap a mascot into any genre and attract the fanboys and casuals. It's not easy to start from scratch and develop the same sense of quality, without the barriers.

But I guess that is the difference between fanboys and me. I can only take so much of that.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Yes there is reason. There is no universe in the entire world that holds that sort of appeal to me across every goddamn genre. They could slap EARTHBOUND on everything from kart racing to fucking baseball to fucking surgery sims, and I'd still start to hate it after the five billionth time.

If all Microsoft could do is release Halo Kart and Halo Fighting and Halo Raider and Halo: The Haloing in Halotown, I'd be all "fuck this shit get some new material."

It is really fucking easy to slap a mascot into any genre and attract the fanboys and casuals. It's not easy to start from scratch and develop the same sense of quality, without the barriers.

But I guess that is the difference between fanboys and me. I can only take so much of that.

So I take it you hate Final Fantasy?

 

[FrankT]

Did we ever get Bioshock PS3 numbers?

 

[Amir0x]

So I take it you hate Final Fantasy?

Which ones? On balance, I would say I hate more Final Fantasy titles than I like!

But joking aside, we all know the difference between Mario and Final Fantasy in this argument. No need to try this.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Which ones? On balance, I would say I hate more Final Fantasy titles than I like!

But joking aside, we all know the difference between Mario and Final Fantasy in this argument. No need to try this.

It's not that different really, Square-Enix does the same thing with FF that Nintendo does with Mario.

Final Fantasy fighting games, chocobo dungeon crawlers, tactics games, crystal chronicals games, etc, etc.

I'm not saying that Nintendo doesn't whore Mario out, but to exclude Final Fantasy would be hypocritical.

 

[jman2050]

I don't know about you, but I'd totally play a Final Fantasy kart racer.

 

[Amir0x]

With very few exceptions, every Final Fantasy game sports different characters, different styles, completely unrelated stories and concepts. I guess you could make some extremely thin argument about Chocobo as a character being similar to Mario being whored out, but even that is fucking tenuous at best.

Not to mention I have pointed out and criticized SquareEnix's sharp reliance on just the brand by itself on MAAAANY occasions, like here and here and a big rant against SquareEnix in a thread I can't find anymore on this very issue.

So even GIVEN the tenuous at best comparison, I still am not a hypocrite on this subject.

I don't know about you, but I'd totally play a Final Fantasy kart racer.

They already made one.

 

[Eteric Rice]

With very few exceptions, every Final Fantasy game sports different characters, different styles, completely unrelated stories and concepts. I guess you could make some extremely thin argument about Chocobo as a character being similar to Mario being whored out, but even that is fucking tenuous at best.

Not to mention I have pointed out and criticized SquareEnix's sharp reliance on just the brand by itself on MAAAANY occasions, like here and here and a big rant against SquareEnix in a thread I can't find anymore on this very issue.

So even GIVEN the tenuous at best comparison, I still am not a hypocrite on this subject.



They already made one.

I'm just saying that Nintendo isn't the only company to do this.

Anyway, I agree that they need to make more new franchises. But at the same time, I'd worry that third parties would just use it as an excuse to not put any games on it... again...

 

[jman2050]

They already made one.

You know, I really should not at all be shocked at this.

 

[manueldelalas]

I don't know about you, but I'd totally play a Final Fantasy kart racer.

Chocobo Racers PS1; you could play as Bahamoot, Squall, Cloud, mage, white mage, etc.

Good game.

 

[Amir0x]

For the sake of my sanity, can we all get past the amateur "well they're not the only ones" crap and just meet at the truth of "they made the fucking CONSOLE" and so their status and relative strength holds somewhat more value than any random developer, and that just because ONE company does it doesn't mean it's right ANOTHER does.

this type of argument is some really base, gradeschool shit

Edit: UGH, Chocobo Racers was terrible. The mechanics were RANK.

 

[Eteric Rice]

For the sake of my sanity, can we all get past the amateur "well they're not the only ones" crap and just meet at the truth of "they made the fucking CONSOLE" and so their status and relative strength holds somewhat more value than any random developer, and that just because ONE company does it doesn't mean it's right ANOTHER does.

this type of argument is some really base, gradeschool shit

But you're acting like they're the only ones. If you're going to bitch about one, bitch about all of them. I'm not saying I disagree with your point that they rehash shit over and over.

And I could apply the same to Ubisoft, Activision, EA, etc. Just because one company makes a bunch of shitty games doesn't mean it's right that everyone else does. But there seems to be people here that try to justify it and actually WANT them to continue doing it.

 

[Amir0x]

No, I'm acting like they're the most important ones on the Wii, and I'm also acting like WE WERE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT NINTENDO so of course I am going to keep bringing them up. I am also suggesting they are one of the worst.

Focus people, goddamn

 

[davepoobond]

Nintendo Pwns Douches

 

[jman2050]

I should've just said tennis game like I wanted to originally :lol

 

[Eteric Rice]

No, I'm acting like they're the most important ones on the Wii, and I'm also acting like WE WERE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT NINTENDO so of course I am going to keep bringing them up. I am also suggesting they are one of the worst.

Focus people, goddamn

Hey, cut me some slack, I have ADHD.

 

[Amir0x]

i have fatass disorder, but i still got game

 

[Vast Inspiration]

It's not that different really, Square-Enix does the same thing with FF that Nintendo does with Mario.

Final Fantasy fighting games, chocobo dungeon crawlers, tactics games, crystal chronicals games, etc, etc.

I'm not saying that Nintendo doesn't whore Mario out, but to exclude Final Fantasy would be hypocritical.

This is so fucking sad. Everytime someone makers a point, Nintendo fans respond with...well that other company does it tooo!!!!

What I take away from your argument is this: you'd rather have grey and brown shooters like Resistence, Killzone, and [insert Microsoft IP] than one genre-defining platformer from Nintendo just because it has Mario's face on it. But the thing is, quality beats quantity every time.

:lol :lol I'll say this, Microsoft's Gears of War or Microsoft's Fable or Sony's LittleBigPlanet have done more for the industry and influenced their respective genres more than anything Mario Galaxy has done.

 

[Amir0x]

for the record i do not wish to be associated with anyone who would in someway seek to devalue Super Mario Galaxy

 

[Eteric Rice]

This is so fucking sad. Everytime someone makers a point, Nintendo fans respond with...well that other company does it tooo!!!!



:lol :lol I'll say this, Microsoft's Gears of War or Microsoft's Fable or Sony's LittleBigPlanet have done more for the industry and influenced their respective genres more than anything Mario Galaxy has done.

I can give you Fable and LBP.

But Gears of War? Are you serious?

And other companies do, do it too, asshat. :|

 

[Amir0x]

Don't try to discredit Gears of War. It has already ACTUALLY influenced a bunch of games, and it is a brilliant blend of gameplay.

 

[WrikaWrek]

I can give you Fable and LBP.

But Gears of War? Are you serious?

And other companies do, do it too, asshat. :|

Wtf. If anything Gears of War is the one to pick :lol

It has influenced other games greatly.

 

[Vast Inspiration]

for the record i do not wish to be associated with anyone who would in someway seek to devalue Super Mario Galaxy

I'm not devaluing the quality of SMG. I'm devaluing its impact.

But you're acting like they're the only ones. If you're going to bitch about one, bitch about all of them. I'm not saying I disagree with your point that they rehash shit over and over.

And I could apply the same to Ubisoft, Activision, EA, etc. Just because one company makes a bunch of shitty games doesn't mean it's right that everyone else does. But there seems to be people here that try to justify it and actually WANT them to continue doing it.

Or for fuck's sake. In very recent times

Ubisoft has put out Assassin's Creed, EndWar
EA has put out Dead Space and Mirror's Edge
And just a few years ago, Activision radically changed the market with Guitar Hero

What the hell has Nintendo put out in the past few years? Another Mario? Another Metroid? Another Zelda? Another sloppy fucking mess of a casual game? What have they produced for the hardcore gaming community that they didn't have their name attached to 10 years ago?

I can give you Fable and LBP.

But Gears of War? Are you serious?

And other companies do, do it too, asshat. :|

As the previous two posters did the work for me...
Please refrain from saying even more ridiculously idiotic things.

And again, stop with the fucking finger pointing. Don't point at other companies as if that is some sort of defense. You sound like a child with his hands over his ears.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Don't try to discredit Gears of War. It has already ACTUALLY influenced a bunch of games, and it is a brilliant blend of gameplay.

I own it, I thought it was pretty generic. Especially hated character design, I mean Christ.

Though yeah, it has influenced games.

Wait, I haven't seen LBP influence anything yet...

 

[Trevor360]

:lol :lol I'll say this, Microsoft's Gears of War or Microsoft's Fable or Sony's LittleBigPlanet have done more for the industry and influenced their respective genres more than anything Mario Galaxy has done.

Gears introduced a competent coverage system (first game to do so imo). Beyond that, you're claims feel a bit baseless. LBP has been out less than a month. How can you possibly claim it's influenced anything yet? And what has Fable done?