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Official October 2008 NPD Results
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
DeaconKnowledge
Member
They only have themselves to blame.jett said:
That is really sad for Sony considering all the effort and production values they've been pumping into their first party games.
The worst part of this, kiddies? It's only going to get WORSE from here.
Souldriver
Member
Sure, whatever, but it's still really sad. So many great games they've put out, yet it's not really apparent in software sales. :/DeaconKnowledge said:
Thunder Monkey
Banned
You guys are sounding more and more pissed as this thread rolls on.chespace said:
You guys wanna go smoke a joint before one of you has an aneurysm?
Souldriver
Member
I think he hates excite truck.legend166 said:
http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/11/14/wii-music-sales-one-tenth-of-wii-fit/
Don't quote my avatar
Count Dookkake
Member
Thanks, guys, for the excellent thread. Not quite like the glory days of the dawn of the generation, but close enough.
Can't wait for next month!
:lol
Can't wait for next month!
:lol
mrklaw said:
See, I don't agree. Here's the list:
Endless Ocean - Ok, can use regular controller
Trauma Center 1 - Needs pointer
Trauma Center 2 - Needs pointer
Super Mario Galaxy - Experienced improved by pointer, but can use regular controller
Boom Blox - Needs pointer/motion
Mercury Meltdown Revolution - Can use controller, improved by motion
Metroid Prime III - Vastly improved by pointer
Super Paper Mario - Can use regular controller
Fire Emblem - Does it even use the wii remote?
Ghost Squad - Needs pointer
HotD1+2 - Needs pointer
Geometry Wars Galaxies - Can use regular controller
Zack & Wiki - Needs pointer/motion
RE4: Wii Edition - VASTLY improved by pointer
Wario: Shake It - Haven't played, but could use regular controller
Chocobo Dungeon - Same as above
So that's 10/16 that need or are improved by the use of the Wii Remote. I do think this was the intention. I do agree that as far, most of the great control stuff is coming from the use of the pointer (the pointer is so awesome and the most underrated thing ever). I hope that motion plus really brings the motion into it, and I think it will.
Also, that list is missing PES 08 which due to the pointer is made into the best soccer game of all time.
Just another thing - that list shows that the Wii does provide a whole bunch of different software in comparison to the HD twins.
Back in the day, I was bitter. Clutching my GCN (only console) and hoping Sony (rather the Playstation brand) would die. I have since moved on from that.
Just looking at the gaming catalog, the PS360 is where it's at. I do own a Wii, but it's been collecting much much dust. Sure, Big N is ballin' out of control, but really what does that do for me now now? Shovelware and crap lookin' games. I can't even wrap my head around a Wii only 'hardcore' gamer. Nintendo has largely abandoned us.
Though I am a primarily PC gamer, the PS3 has enough games out/coming that warrant a purchase. And I will when I can afford to do it, upgrading the PC takes precedence. The 360 is solid, but with a good PC it isn't necessary. I do like that PC games and 360 games are developed together, makes everyone happy enough. Capcom has embraced that.
Looking forward... performance parts will be soooo cheap. 2GB of memory (DDR2) is throw away material ($25?). In bulk and without a module, it would be cheap.
My one worry is PC gaming in 2011-2016. Will consoles limit the PC? Will people be willing to make super PC games that won't play nice on a console?
Just looking at the gaming catalog, the PS360 is where it's at. I do own a Wii, but it's been collecting much much dust. Sure, Big N is ballin' out of control, but really what does that do for me now now? Shovelware and crap lookin' games. I can't even wrap my head around a Wii only 'hardcore' gamer. Nintendo has largely abandoned us.
Though I am a primarily PC gamer, the PS3 has enough games out/coming that warrant a purchase. And I will when I can afford to do it, upgrading the PC takes precedence. The 360 is solid, but with a good PC it isn't necessary. I do like that PC games and 360 games are developed together, makes everyone happy enough. Capcom has embraced that.
Looking forward... performance parts will be soooo cheap. 2GB of memory (DDR2) is throw away material ($25?). In bulk and without a module, it would be cheap.
My one worry is PC gaming in 2011-2016. Will consoles limit the PC? Will people be willing to make super PC games that won't play nice on a console?
Warm Machine
Member
legend166 said:
Fixed
Eteric Rice
Member
Rur0ni said:
You need to take that out with Ubisoft and Activision.
And the other shovelware people of course.
To your second point, this is pretty likely. PC hardware changes all the time, while consoles are static. Considering that most of their money is coming from consoles, you can expect to see a sort of roadblock; tech wise, in the PC gaming world.
perfectchaos007
Member
Count Dookkake said:
Wait till PS4
Rur0ni said:
More like 3rd parties have (ignorantly so) abandoned Nintendo.
Seriously, What awesome 3rd party games released this year for Wii?? I mean something on the level of Fable or Fallout? That's right. Don't blame Nintendo. Nintendo has put out Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy Zelda and Metroid (along with a ton of other quality 2nd tier titles). That's WAY more than anyone one 3rd party has done so far.
Maybe when 3rd parties get their heads out of their asses and actually decide to support Wii with quality product we will see some 3rd party titles in the 10 list, but until then, don't bank on it. And don't blame Nintendo.
3rd parties could have OWNED this holiday season, but no, they ****ed up. 2 years in the game and they are still sleeping on Wii.
Warm Machine
Member
Bizzyb said:
Didn't Nintendo sell their machine as an inexpensive to make games on fun party game machine to developers? Was it not in all of their marketing materials? So don't blame third parties for giving the machine exactly what Nintendo asked for.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I'm too lazy to bother finding Amirox's post to quote it, but do we really have to have all game innovatively utilize just the Wiimote to be fun?
This was a criticism of the DS way back in the day that I just couldn't understand "Yeah well, these games don't need the DS to be good". So what? All this means is that the DS has good, traditional games in addition to the quirky ones that can only be done with the system. Now we have a platform in the DS that is kicking ass the likes of which we haven't seen in possibly the life of gaming as a hobby. And people are STILL incredulous as to why it sells.
This is why I can't conclude that some people can't conclude that the Wii can't be a persons only system. Yes, it's missing a ton of Blockbusters the 360 and PS3 have exclusively, but there are also a metric ton of games they do have, in addition to the games that are ONLY found on the Wii. Yet here we are still finding gaffers shocked that Guitar Hero sold the most on Wii, or people are actually fucking with the Wii versions of CoD, PES, Madden, Guitar Hero and Rock Band. "How could this be? HD graphics and hard drive space trump waggle clearly!" Except they don't.
This is the problem I have with "hardcore gamers" (including myself). We have a definition of what gamers want and exclude everything that rests outside said conclusion. The harsh reality for GAF and the industry and whole it seems is that the Wii doesn't HAVE to innovate to be popular. It has games people want, in droves. It's not as confined to pre-conceived notions as to what's good and what isn't by the top 5 percent that pays such close attention to things like this. Average gamers don't worry about how much the game they're playing innovates.
This was a criticism of the DS way back in the day that I just couldn't understand "Yeah well, these games don't need the DS to be good". So what? All this means is that the DS has good, traditional games in addition to the quirky ones that can only be done with the system. Now we have a platform in the DS that is kicking ass the likes of which we haven't seen in possibly the life of gaming as a hobby. And people are STILL incredulous as to why it sells.
This is why I can't conclude that some people can't conclude that the Wii can't be a persons only system. Yes, it's missing a ton of Blockbusters the 360 and PS3 have exclusively, but there are also a metric ton of games they do have, in addition to the games that are ONLY found on the Wii. Yet here we are still finding gaffers shocked that Guitar Hero sold the most on Wii, or people are actually fucking with the Wii versions of CoD, PES, Madden, Guitar Hero and Rock Band. "How could this be? HD graphics and hard drive space trump waggle clearly!" Except they don't.
This is the problem I have with "hardcore gamers" (including myself). We have a definition of what gamers want and exclude everything that rests outside said conclusion. The harsh reality for GAF and the industry and whole it seems is that the Wii doesn't HAVE to innovate to be popular. It has games people want, in droves. It's not as confined to pre-conceived notions as to what's good and what isn't by the top 5 percent that pays such close attention to things like this. Average gamers don't worry about how much the game they're playing innovates.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Because Nintendo hasn't released a single Core oriented title for the system?Warm Machine said:
Nintendo set the bar, and developers have largely flew well under that bar. Few even trying to pull themselves over it.
WiiSports is a better game then the vast majority of 3rd party releases. Better visuallly, conceptually, in all areas WiiSports shit on your average 3rd party release and WiiSports is far from the best game released by Nintendo on the Wii.
Nintendo set the bar, but so very few of the development community has even tried to hit let alone exceed the bar set by WiiSports.
ViperVisor said:
Why would you want this, the old model was to sell to the consumer at a LOSS (i.e sick value for the money tech wise), big budget AAA titles. How does the rising costs of the studio's affect you as a consumer outside of the extra $5-$10 a game?
You rather the AAA fist party title only system with everyone else throwing every flash made POS game they can at the system? I'm lucky that my kids are so young that they truly enjoy shitty titles like Cosmic Family but I dread if this becomes the industry norm
Fable is first party. This year would have to include Boom Blox and de Blob, both of which were awesome. The Wii loses heavily by comparison to the glut of games out for other systems right now. Seriously, the amount of good stuff that has come out over the last couple of months is dizzying. A lot of it has been first party too. Nintendo gave us a great 07 and a very poor 08.Bizzyb said:
I don't think anyone denies that a Wii can be a persons only system. Being a gamers only system is another thing entirely.DeaconKnowledge said:
_Alkaline_
Member
Amir0x said:
What? Huh? What time is it? What year is this!? WHERE AM I?!!! OH GOD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT'S GOING ON!!??
Warm Machine
Member
Thunder Monkey said:
What other console is Nintendo going to release their core games on? The 360? Come on, they have no choice and Nintendo knows they can make $$$ of them because they have the audience.
Did they or did they not set the system up to be a unique, family friendly, low cost development platform? Hey, I'll agree that Wii Sports it better than 95% of the third party games on the console and in doing so sent out a loud clear message to publisher that said..."more of this please" No wonder Fable II isn't dropping on the console. A publisher readying a 20 million core game for the machine is going against what the entire console and much of its audience and impetus stands for.
travisbickle
Member
yoopoo said:
Why? It's the same as every NPD thread except with you making the "exploding concrete" joke too many times.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Depends on what you want from your games really.Fredescu said:
Unequivocally, the 360/PS3 has the larger lineup this fall. I just don't see the quality disparity. There are more Wii games out this fall that I will buy, then there is 360/PS3 titles that I might buy.
If you don't like shooters, or first person oriented games the PS3 and 360 lineups looks completely barren.
Eteric Rice
Member
Warm Machine said:
Yeah, but what does that have to do with the wave of shovelware being thrown at the console monthly?
The Wii is a console that was made to attempt to bring in new gamers to a market filled with the same people. They tried to expand it. It has nothing to do with casuals or whatever. They tried to set up a system like the DS, where both types of games can exist. And both types of games CAN and DO exist on the platform.
Seriously, this Wii trolling bullshit is old. You can't excuse companies like Ubisoft and Activision, so please don't even try.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Except for those millions and millions of people buying the Core oriented titles on the system right?Warm Machine said:
RE4Wii is a port, and it's outsold a completely new Capcom game for the 360.
There is money in the nongame arena, but the more crap they release in that style, the less likely people are to buy them.
The system doesn't just sell "nongames" it sells a whole buttload of games, and even sells Core games better then the other platforms. FPS are the only arena that doesn't hold true.
AndersTheSwede
Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
Which is one of the reasons the Wii's success is independent of the 360's. It's pretty clear that consumers who choose the Wii are making their decision based upon an entirely different criteria and thus a sale for the Wii does not equal -1 for 360. It simply adds to the market a wholly new group, increasing overall revenue for the industry (well... for ninty). And if these people become more familiar with video games because of the Wii and then a certain percentage decide to try more "traditional" fare everyone wins.
I will never by a Wii because I hate practically every game on it (never liked Nintendo's first party fair). But it's an obvious positive for the industry and doesn't threaten the hardcore subset at all.
I know people will probably jump on this as a slight against the Wii, but I find it has much more in common with devices like the DS than the 360 to the point that they augment each other in an industry wide sense, not strictly competing dollar for dollar against each other.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
And we had the argument a few pages before your few pages.Fredescu said:
I still come back and see people spouting off the same untruths pages later.
Warm Machine
Member
Eteric Rice said:
I'm not trolling the system just reiterating Nintendo's own mantra that they sold to publishers and developers. They were right too, you can't take that away from them. Shovelware is the responsibility of the publishers but a lot of it falls under the low cost low development time Nintendo sales pitch even though Nintendo could NEVER be quoted as saying low quality which is a side effect of the the first two if not managed properly.
When it comes back to the two co-existing, did Nintendo even show core games in the first few waves of Wii previews or make them a major focus? It will take a long time for a ship to come around once pushed in a certain direction. Nintendo got the ship moving in one primary direction and if they even want it to change course which I don't think they do or care to it would take a collosal effort to do so now.
Nintendo tried to expand the market sure, but what did they try to expand the market with is the question. It sure wasn't another Mario game or another Zelda because all that is doing is firing a BB at a freight train. Wii Sports was the focus and that is what blew the doors off and publishers are still chasing down that success on the console because they know that the core gamer success can be found elsewhere even if it costs them more money.
dead souls
Member
Fredescu said:
Agreed. Wii, DS and PS2 are easily keeping me occupied.
Eteric Rice
Member
Warm Machine said:
Erm, if I remember correctly, the very first preview of the Wii featured games like Project H.A.M.M.E.R, Red Steel, and Metroid Prime, Zelda, Disaster, and Final Fantasy CC.
There were a few more casual games, but nothing that wasn't pretty common in Japan at the time.
So no, I'd say Nintendo didn't push the casual agenda. They did push for lower costs and a system that anyone could try, but they didn't say anything about moving away from core. That seemed to have happened later as Wii Sports took off. Publishers saw the love for that game. About a year or so after, publishers started trying to make Wii Sports clones.
_Alkaline_
Member
Warm Machine said:
Oh come on.
High budget core games have often done exceptional on the Wii - just look at the sales of Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Red Steel, RE4: Wii Edition, RE: Umbrella Chronicles, Super Smash Bros, Brawl, Super Paper Mario, Sonic and the Secret Rings, etc for instance, which have all sold over a million.
There's a definite core audience for the system, but so few publishers are taking the risk, instead deciding to keep putting the AAA games on 360/PS3 and putting much smaller games on the Wii. There's a reason why this month's top 10 is so 360 and PS3 orientated - it's because the only good games were released for those consoles. Wii got the shaft and it shows.
I think publishers need to develop a balance between the two. They should NOT stop putting AAA games on the 360/PS3 - after all, it's these games that are selling phenomenally well this generation, so why would they stop? What they should do is give the Wii some attention as well. There's an absolute gold mine waiting for them - it's destined to very soon outsell the 360 and PS3 combined. What's stopping them from tapping into such a massive market? After all, you don't know how something will turn out until you've actually tried it, and evidence shows that great core games can sell very good numbers on Nintendo's console.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
To keep conversations going all we need are the hardware numbers sadly. This is an explosive NPD thread. It had kind of leveled off for a while there. It's because of me though. I haven't posted much in the last two threads and they ended up dying off fairly quick.Meier said:
I'm back = big thread.
You're welcome.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Xisiqomelir said:
Already bought, and it actually arrived a few days ago. Haven't had time to play yet though. Hopefully sometime this weekend I'll get a chance.
dark10x said:I actually agree with you 100%.That was a perfect post.
I absolutely do not hate the system and never have. Internet personas do tend to color opinions, but in reality, I think the Wii is a very decent system with some great games on it. As you say, however, most of the games that appeal to people like you and I aren't really anything that would require the unique control scheme of the Wii. Basically, I feel that those great games actually suffer as a result of the weaker hardware. Of course, we've been down this road many times before, so don't bother responding.
I'm happy to own one and I really enjoyed a lot of the experiences I've had with it.
Call me when PS360 can do Trauma Centre. I'll be first in line.
Hey I wouldn't say third parties completely blew it on the Wii this year. We did get Boom Blox and that was great fun.
Actually quite a few of the arguments and discussions here would be BECAUSE of the lack of information - for example, Wii software sales in general.
Meier said:
Actually quite a few of the arguments and discussions here would be BECAUSE of the lack of information - for example, Wii software sales in general.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Mornings suck.
domokunrox
Banned
Haunted said:
Not really. Considering that the PS3 base is almost half size of the 360 base. They're doing very good actually.
Warm Machine
Member
_Alkaline_ said:
Yes Core games sell well, just try to convince a publisher of that.
I go into a board room at EA and present my plans for an epic RPG or Sci Fi game. After the demonstration I say that I think it should be a Wii game. They will probably say that they think this is a better fit for PS360.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
That they do.Segata Sanshiro said:
I'm glad it's already night where I'm at.
Good morning sweet prince.
*giggles and blushes*
What I find most impressive about those graphs is that one publisher (Nintendo) on its own had sold nearly as much software in the first 23 months on Wii, as all third party publishers combined did on 360 in those first 23 months. This is the 360 here. While not as big of a software juggernaut as Wii in the US, it has been known as a great place for third parties.Haunted said:
Of course, Wii third party software sales were higher, launches aligned, and that's with significantly less investment, so it ain't a fair comparison, is heavily biased towards 360 when making any conclusions about the ability of each platform to sell third party games.
Nintendo has proven that when you make high quality games on Wii, they sell. Good games sell and flop on all three current gen platforms, especially the low budget ones.
Bizzyb said:
To shift the argument a bit, nobody sees a problem with this?
The other day we were going through Nintendo's first party lineup for Wii, and the amount of stuff that relies on, say, Mario to sell is really obscene. I know Nintendo fans can absorb that shit like the spongey fanboys they are, and they love hugging their Princesss Peach plushies, but Mario's world and universe has been abused to hell. Why do they need to always plaster him in every product they make or at least in some way relate him?
Smash Bros., Mario Strikers Charged, Mario Baseball, Wario Ware, Wario Shake, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, Mario Kart Wii, Mario Party 8, Dr. Mario WiiWare... this is just the first two years of the system.
My other argument about Wii has always been that Nintendo themselves don't put in the required effort to push NEW HARDCORE IPs alongside their traditional franchises or their non-gamer garbage. Who knows how much money they put into advertising Wii Music... but if they put some of that same effort into establishing a new hardcore IP, it must just thrive. They have so much fucking money, yet Microsoft and Sony are practically shitting out compelling new hardcore IPs (or at least attempting new shit), while Nintendo just whores the old crap and dedicates new resources to WII-FUCKING-HORRIBLE-MUSIC.
You guys remember Disaster and Captain Rainbow? What a great advertising campaign, saying nothing about the game until like three days before release!
And frankly, those don't even have remotely near the effort of even one of Nintendo's "midline" franchises, like Metroid.