Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
i guess the recession got to billy huh
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Official Smashing Pumpkins thread
- Thread starter Diablos
- Start date
fly high ~ayunite~
Member
Billy should just say nothing sometimes.
Anyone know where I can get the best bootleg of the heavy version of Daydream they did live last year? Saw some clips on youtube and it sounds amazing.
Anyone know where I can get the best bootleg of the heavy version of Daydream they did live last year? Saw some clips on youtube and it sounds amazing.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
billy testifies to congress about restructuring of royalty rights
http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/pages/videos/18661
http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/pages/videos/18661
AndresON777
shooting blanks
Guess this is the best place to ask. Where exactly can I get the song that plays in the first watchmen trailer? I think I was told it's a remix but I want that exact version. Thanks in advance.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
it was on the batman and robin soundtrack. its a sort of obscure song, weird that it was on any trailer
AndresON777
shooting blanks
Tyrone Slothrop said:
thanks somebody told me that but I wanted to be sure it wasnt a different version of that song before I bought it. cool beans
ChrisGoldstein said:
It's The Beginning Is The End Is The Beginning, not to be confused with The End is The Beginning is The End.
Colloquially referred to as TBITEITB and TEITBITE, respectively
Edit:
Tyrone Slothrop said:
Actually it's not that weird really, because Warner retained the rights to the songs on the Batman & Robin soundtrack (TEITBITE doesn't appear on the SP Greatest Hits CD/DVD because of this) and of course Warner is behind the Watchmen film as well so it was probably a cheaper alternative than some other songs they may have had in a mind. And I have to be honest, it ended up being one of the best/most memorable trailers I've seen in a long time.
fly high ~ayunite~ said:
That's what I've always thought too. I'm sure people like Thom Yorke say stupid things every now and then, but I'm sure they're talking to their dog rather than a magazine. Stuff like "give me a kazoo and I'll write you a hit"... maybe that's true, but when the press has labeled you an egomaniac, you should probably keep that part quiet.
I feel bad for Billy. He hasn't had a really big hit in like, what, 12 or 13 years? Obviously we'll always respect what he's done for the most part, but damn, the Mellon Collie era was eons ago... I feel so old when I think back to listening to MCIS for the first time (my introduction to the band).
He's so obsessive and concerned about the little details that I think he lets it eat him up, which explains why he freaks out and has really strong opinions about random shit all the time. And it would also explain his... impulsive behavior lately.
It's a damn shame, as the band's live show is as good (probably better) than it has ever been, but they get no love.
He's so obsessive and concerned about the little details that I think he lets it eat him up, which explains why he freaks out and has really strong opinions about random shit all the time. And it would also explain his... impulsive behavior lately.
It's a damn shame, as the band's live show is as good (probably better) than it has ever been, but they get no love.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
lol i got banned from the o-board within five minutes of registering today. they're way too on top of things there
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
i said something about darcy doing coke. lulz
WTF
http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/pages/news/jimmy-chamberlin-leaves-smashing-pumpkins
Ughhh, he is so key to what makes this band special. This is totally unexpected. Just a couple months ago the two of them were "in this 'till we die" etc. Ugh.
This sucks! The thought of Billy and Jimmy no longer in the band together is very saddening. This basically killed my already shitty day.
I would not be surprised if SP just ends again. Billy really can't go on without Jimmy. He can, but he can't rock like we're used to without Jimmy. It's not possible and part of what sets them apart from other bands. Billy was able to get away with it for Adore, and he can probably do it once more, but not consistently. Jimmy is the band's, as it was once put, "secret weapon".
SP's live show is AMAZING, I'd argue better than ever -- and taking Jimmy out of the picture just made that instantly crumble. All of the stuff they took to the stage -- Gossamer, the reworked Heavy Metal Machine, As Rome Burns, on and on... it's worthless now. Jimmy completes the equation when they pull off that amazing stuff.
What's interesting is that I've been reading on message boards and stuff that Jimmy wants to do another Complex album. So this could be part of the reason why. Hopefully more news will come soon, and it's just temporary... I sure hope it is...
For his own sake, he needs to stay in the band, I think. His solo stuff is incredible, but the man is a world class drummer and he's not going to continue getting the praise that he does if he just kinda carelessly fades into obscurity.
edit: No, really, what the fuck is going on? The two of them just went back to Chicago to build "Pumpkinland 2.0" for future recordings. This doesn't make a bit of sense. I'm starting to wonder if it's drug-related, or something. None of this adds up. Jimmy's been putting up with Billy for like over two decades now, so I doubt he all of the sudden got so fed up with the same old Corgan antics that he jumped ship. This is really strange.
http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/pages/news/jimmy-chamberlin-leaves-smashing-pumpkins
Jimmy is out
Ughhh, he is so key to what makes this band special. This is totally unexpected. Just a couple months ago the two of them were "in this 'till we die" etc. Ugh.
This sucks! The thought of Billy and Jimmy no longer in the band together is very saddening. This basically killed my already shitty day.
I would not be surprised if SP just ends again. Billy really can't go on without Jimmy. He can, but he can't rock like we're used to without Jimmy. It's not possible and part of what sets them apart from other bands. Billy was able to get away with it for Adore, and he can probably do it once more, but not consistently. Jimmy is the band's, as it was once put, "secret weapon".
SP's live show is AMAZING, I'd argue better than ever -- and taking Jimmy out of the picture just made that instantly crumble. All of the stuff they took to the stage -- Gossamer, the reworked Heavy Metal Machine, As Rome Burns, on and on... it's worthless now. Jimmy completes the equation when they pull off that amazing stuff.
What's interesting is that I've been reading on message boards and stuff that Jimmy wants to do another Complex album. So this could be part of the reason why. Hopefully more news will come soon, and it's just temporary... I sure hope it is...
For his own sake, he needs to stay in the band, I think. His solo stuff is incredible, but the man is a world class drummer and he's not going to continue getting the praise that he does if he just kinda carelessly fades into obscurity.
edit: No, really, what the fuck is going on? The two of them just went back to Chicago to build "Pumpkinland 2.0" for future recordings. This doesn't make a bit of sense. I'm starting to wonder if it's drug-related, or something. None of this adds up. Jimmy's been putting up with Billy for like over two decades now, so I doubt he all of the sudden got so fed up with the same old Corgan antics that he jumped ship. This is really strange.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
um wat?
i wonder if this is health related for jimmy. everything seemed to be going well. this sucks balls....
i wonder if this is health related for jimmy. everything seemed to be going well. this sucks balls....
If he's gone for good, I'll even go out on a limb here and say that Billy should just kill the band once and for all. Perhaps he can go for an Adore II if you will, but really, that's all there is left to do. You cannot otherwise have a band called Smashing Pumpkins without Jimmy. The absence of Darcy and James didn't upset me like it did some others, because BC/JC are and always were the two members that set the band apart from all others. Hell, Jeff Schroeder is a better guitarist than James was (it hurts, I know, but it's the truth). Nothing else really matters that much, as long as those two are making music together. Take away JC, and the dynamic changes, completely. It's really too bad, though. Ginger was a solid bassist, Jeff really did a lot for the live show, and then of course you have the classic BC/JC dynamic. They worked really hard to put on a killer show since 2007, and now it's already done with. Unlike Zwan, it's a big blur that doesn't deserve to be one; they worked too hard and played way too many amazing shows.FrenchMovieTheme said:
What's more is if Jimmy left because Billy was picking on him too much, well -- he's completely lost it. Billy needs Jimmy. He's not a musician you should go bossing around, he has a wealth of talent and played a critical role in defining the band's sound. I'm sure Jimmy knows that, too, so if Billy got upset with him for stupid reasons, I can see why he left.
This is very troubling, though... it seems as though Billy is completely done with records and wants to release bullshit singles like "FOL" and "GLOW" for commercials. It was pretty rough to see Billy sell "Today" to VISA; and when you read the post above quoting him saying how he'd never do anything like that just a few years back, it really puts it all in perspective. I think Billy has lost interest in keeping his fans happy. He left his mark and stands proudly as one of the defining icons of the 1990's alternative rock era, a turning point in how the mainstream paid attention to music.
I am hoping my post here ends up being speculation that gets shot down easily by more details that confirms his absence as a temporary one while he records another solo album.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
if this has anything to do with billy then he can suck a dick. i won't go to anymore "SP" shows or purchase anymore sp records.
if it is health related well then it is unfortunate but jimmy has to do what is best for himself at this point. i know they had to cancel a few shows because he had that heart problem so it would be understandable.
we'll see in the coming days and weeks what comes of this.
if it is health related well then it is unfortunate but jimmy has to do what is best for himself at this point. i know they had to cancel a few shows because he had that heart problem so it would be understandable.
we'll see in the coming days and weeks what comes of this.
BigJonsson
Member
WTF?!?
No, just no
No, just no
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
truth is SP is and always was billy's project. the band operates like trent reznor with NIN
but i am perplexed as to why jimmy left. unlike james or darcy he had an integral musical role. but adore and TFE were great albums done with a drum machine or a stand in drummer, and they turned out fine.
but i am perplexed as to why jimmy left. unlike james or darcy he had an integral musical role. but adore and TFE were great albums done with a drum machine or a stand in drummer, and they turned out fine.
Yeah but Billy's getting older and he needs Jimmy to solidify that SP sound. I do not trust Billy all by himself anymore if he is to remain in the "Smashing Pumpkins". He needs input from Jimmy. He shapes the band's sound more than he's been given credit for.Tyrone Slothrop said:
Really hoping this just implies that Jimmy will be absent for an album/grouping of songs over the next couple years and that he'll be back in the future. That, I would understand.
I'm so glad I saw them in 2007. To see Billy and Jimmy on stage together was awesome.
edit: But really, I think it's possible that they were fighting over the direction of the band. Read this post from Billy (at the o-board) from the end of last month:
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
i'm too tired to type anything coherent right now, but here's something i posted on another board about the bruhaha ..
i've been thinking about it more, and thought: what were the last two BC/JC albums? mary star and zeigeist. IMO those are the most mediocre albums of billy's career. don't get me wrong, they were still good in relation to a lot of other music out there, and jimmy's drumming was godly on them. but it's not as if jimmy's absence will make the new SP material any more or less shitty. (live shows on the other hand will definitely not be the same)
like i said everybody should probably wait until more info is available. it could just be that jimmy wants to spend time with his family, though the lack of public statement has me worried he's just had enough with billy's meltdowns
i've been thinking about it more, and thought: what were the last two BC/JC albums? mary star and zeigeist. IMO those are the most mediocre albums of billy's career. don't get me wrong, they were still good in relation to a lot of other music out there, and jimmy's drumming was godly on them. but it's not as if jimmy's absence will make the new SP material any more or less shitty. (live shows on the other hand will definitely not be the same)
like i said everybody should probably wait until more info is available. it could just be that jimmy wants to spend time with his family, though the lack of public statement has me worried he's just had enough with billy's meltdowns
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
im having a hard time believing it's because of a fight between the two. it just makes sense that it would be health related. seems like he would have skipped out before but they already had that giant tour setup.
billy corgan is still a great musician, so i am looking forward to any music he might release (smashing pumpkins or otherwise), but it just sucks that jimmy is gone.
even though a lot of my music fan friends scoff when i say jimmy is the best drummer around it's really the truth. on any given night there are a few guys who give him a run for his money but he is an incredible drummer
billy corgan is still a great musician, so i am looking forward to any music he might release (smashing pumpkins or otherwise), but it just sucks that jimmy is gone.
even though a lot of my music fan friends scoff when i say jimmy is the best drummer around it's really the truth. on any given night there are a few guys who give him a run for his money but he is an incredible drummer
Zeitgeist is better than Machina. Machina 2, not so much. Production values are an entirely different argument. Regardless, the absence of Jimmy in a Smashing Pumpkins record will make a huge difference, and I don't even think I want to go to a show anymore unless they end up being like at Adore-era levels of awesome, which I HIGHLY DOUBT.Tyrone Slothrop said:
I'm really wary of Mr. Corgan now. All of the awesome stuff he's accomplished with Jimmy in the past couple years is gone. How tight the band sounds, their crazy jamming you hear in songs like Gossamer, etc., is all gone with Jimmy out. And it's that stuff which, to me, makes me say "yeah, still the best band ever." The two of them have certain musical chemistry that can't be emulated by anyone else.
I'm almost ready to throw in the towel. I'm glad they got back together and toured, but with Jimmy gone, there's next to no point in there being a band called SP. No James or Darcy I can understand and in some ways respect, but all I can is if Billy more or less made Jimmy leave (either by asking him to, or Jimmy just getting fed up with Corgan's drama), that's just awful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aajvG_qUJQg
This is why you need Jimmy for the live show.
God dammit, I bet they never did this in the studio together, either. And if they do now, there's no Jimmy. Arrrgghhh, this sucks. I'm so mad. This would have been one of their best singles. Billy Corgan is such an idiot when it comes to the direction he wants his band to go in lately. I guess selling Today to VISA was a better idea. Dumbass.
Also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_remgbNRns
:-(
This is why you need Jimmy for the live show.
God dammit, I bet they never did this in the studio together, either. And if they do now, there's no Jimmy. Arrrgghhh, this sucks. I'm so mad. This would have been one of their best singles. Billy Corgan is such an idiot when it comes to the direction he wants his band to go in lately. I guess selling Today to VISA was a better idea. Dumbass.
Also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_remgbNRns
:-(
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
before jumping down billys throat lets wait to get official word. i agree that the signs are there that it might have been billy being a dick (as he has been so many times before), but lets wait for the story to come out before assuming it was billy.
Oh WTF
>_<
This sucks.
It always was his band, but I'm not sure it operated like the way Trent used to. I think JC's contributions are more than most think ... I'd suspect Billy and him write together very well, and that Billy knows this. It's likely more of a collaboration than an original NIN sort of thing.
I certainly wouldn't scoff that he's a great drummer - he certainly is, and has a unique sound beyond his technical merits. However, universally crediting him as 'the best drummer' is really not 'the truth'.
>_<
This sucks.
Tyrone Slothrop said:
It always was his band, but I'm not sure it operated like the way Trent used to. I think JC's contributions are more than most think ... I'd suspect Billy and him write together very well, and that Billy knows this. It's likely more of a collaboration than an original NIN sort of thing.
FrenchMovieTheme said:
I certainly wouldn't scoff that he's a great drummer - he certainly is, and has a unique sound beyond his technical merits. However, universally crediting him as 'the best drummer' is really not 'the truth'.
Infinitemadness
Member
So sad, but I say let the band go at this point. What sucks is with the Smashing Pumpkins (BC/JC) I think Billy had a chance of writing a song or whatever that would put them back in the lime light...solo Billy? Not so much. Its like the Cure, Robert Smith is really the only original guy...but how many people outside hardcore Cure fans knew that a new Cure album came out in Oct 08?
Meh, I dunno...I think without JC he should just let the band die.
Meh, I dunno...I think without JC he should just let the band die.
Yep. Jimmy was basically in charge of the rhythm section because Billy doesn't know anything about drumming and he needs his input. I mean, shit, especially when Darcy was on stage, he COMMANDED it. And still does (well did), even with a more talented (Ginger) bassist on stage. No one realizes it but Jimmy was basically half of the band's signature sound. If Billy hires some random yes-man, well, that's not going to do a damn thing. Even if he brings on some other drummer with insane skill, it's not going to be the same; no one else really sounds like Jimmy. It's the truth. I've never heard another drummer that's just like him.Onix said:
There is no such thing as "the best drummer" EVAR, but I really do think he's among the best in the past few decades. He might not be able to play on a technical like [insert random drum snob's favorite guy here], but he has such a unique sound and approach that it really doesn't matter, and kind of transcends what other drummers who are technically faster/louder/whatever pull off. He's perfected his style so very well that it's to the point where he defines himself like few drummers can.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc_m43daJJI At least we can look forward to more stuff like this...
http://twitter.com/Billy_Corgan :lol :lol :lol
distantmantra
Member
Saw this at Pitchfork:
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
unsurprising. looks like billy corgan IS there to just "cash the check", and chamberlin wants no part of it.
i hate to see jimmy leave because i think we all feel that is talents are somewhat wasted in the jimmy chamberlin complex (although the first record was really good, come on he belongs in a bigger band and not some side project that a few thousand people are actually looking forward to)
fuck billy corgan
i hate to see jimmy leave because i think we all feel that is talents are somewhat wasted in the jimmy chamberlin complex (although the first record was really good, come on he belongs in a bigger band and not some side project that a few thousand people are actually looking forward to)
fuck billy corgan
The whole post:
What the hell is wrong with Billy Corgan? He's always been a control freak, but up until now it made sense. In, what, four months, Chamberlin went from saying this is a lifelong commitment, no matter what, to wanting OUT? Just plain bailing? What the fuck?!
I lost a lot of respect for Billy today. A lot. Anyone who knows how much I've defended the Pumpkins over the years should also know this demonstrates how badly Corgan just fucked up. I do not think the band should continue. Will I keep listening? Sure, but I won't care as much. Can some stuff be good? Maybe, but given Billy's actions lately, I'm really scared for the direction in which he's going to take a band that represents such a huge body of quality work. Jimmy has always had an excellent idea of what works and what sucks, and now that he's gone, it just tells me that he has a total lack of confidence in Billy's ability to carry on the band in a good way. And that is not good.
Say what you will about Zeitgeist, but Billy and Jimmy have awesome chemistry as musicians on stage and they really did take a lot of it to a whole new level. You could always expect, no matter what, one of the best rock shows period when you saw the Pumpkins. Now... who knows? It could still be decent, but no way in hell can BC carry on like he did without Jimmy. They have two decades of a deep musical relationship on stage and in the studio. It basically represents the core of their sound which is why I always argued (and will continue to argue) that a lack of James and Darcy was still acceptable, as long as Jimmy sticks around.
This is really bad... might as well consider it the death of the band. Jimmy doesn't even imply that he would come back for a few songs in the future. He has completely shut off the band from his life. If you look at forums and stuff, the remaining hardcore fanbase is pissed. If we walk away, there's no one left to piss off. The band is basically dead to the mainstream in every possible way. Since post-MCIS Billy has made decisions that turned fans off. I supported them because I thought they made sense. A lot of people were dumb for giving up on them so soon. But now, he should know so few people are left, that he's really playing with fire. He's literally letting go of the core of his supporters. Final nail in the coffin. It wasn't Zwan, or TheFutureEmbrace, or Zeitgeist -- it's this.
I hope Billy gets his ass booed off the stage for the next round of shows he plays so he realizes how much he fucked up not only what was (I certainly thought until he broke down towards the end) a solid continuation of the band with a lot of improvements, but the sad ending to such an epic ride it has been since this band formed. What a fucking idiot. In the 90's, Jimmy left the band so he wouldn't die. Today, he left because Billy pissed even him off. Unbelievable. I thought Corgan would know better than to upset Chamberlin so much that he would leave. Billy can't afford to lose him, and he'll soon see why.
http://jimmychamberlincomplex.com/blog/Jimmy said:
What the hell is wrong with Billy Corgan? He's always been a control freak, but up until now it made sense. In, what, four months, Chamberlin went from saying this is a lifelong commitment, no matter what, to wanting OUT? Just plain bailing? What the fuck?!
I lost a lot of respect for Billy today. A lot. Anyone who knows how much I've defended the Pumpkins over the years should also know this demonstrates how badly Corgan just fucked up. I do not think the band should continue. Will I keep listening? Sure, but I won't care as much. Can some stuff be good? Maybe, but given Billy's actions lately, I'm really scared for the direction in which he's going to take a band that represents such a huge body of quality work. Jimmy has always had an excellent idea of what works and what sucks, and now that he's gone, it just tells me that he has a total lack of confidence in Billy's ability to carry on the band in a good way. And that is not good.
Say what you will about Zeitgeist, but Billy and Jimmy have awesome chemistry as musicians on stage and they really did take a lot of it to a whole new level. You could always expect, no matter what, one of the best rock shows period when you saw the Pumpkins. Now... who knows? It could still be decent, but no way in hell can BC carry on like he did without Jimmy. They have two decades of a deep musical relationship on stage and in the studio. It basically represents the core of their sound which is why I always argued (and will continue to argue) that a lack of James and Darcy was still acceptable, as long as Jimmy sticks around.
This is really bad... might as well consider it the death of the band. Jimmy doesn't even imply that he would come back for a few songs in the future. He has completely shut off the band from his life. If you look at forums and stuff, the remaining hardcore fanbase is pissed. If we walk away, there's no one left to piss off. The band is basically dead to the mainstream in every possible way. Since post-MCIS Billy has made decisions that turned fans off. I supported them because I thought they made sense. A lot of people were dumb for giving up on them so soon. But now, he should know so few people are left, that he's really playing with fire. He's literally letting go of the core of his supporters. Final nail in the coffin. It wasn't Zwan, or TheFutureEmbrace, or Zeitgeist -- it's this.
I hope Billy gets his ass booed off the stage for the next round of shows he plays so he realizes how much he fucked up not only what was (I certainly thought until he broke down towards the end) a solid continuation of the band with a lot of improvements, but the sad ending to such an epic ride it has been since this band formed. What a fucking idiot. In the 90's, Jimmy left the band so he wouldn't die. Today, he left because Billy pissed even him off. Unbelievable. I thought Corgan would know better than to upset Chamberlin so much that he would leave. Billy can't afford to lose him, and he'll soon see why.
In November or so, as I said, Jimmy was dedicated to the band for life. Now he bails, and barely wishs Billy well, and only says it is "his right" to carry on the band name. Wow, that's great. It's your right to say whatever you want, Onix, but that doesn't mean I necessarily like you. Read between the lines dude, he's just trying to be civil about this and not crying like Billy has over the past few months.
Come on.
Key indicators that Jimmy just indirectly told Billy to fuck off:
"I won't pretend I'm into something I'm not" and "cashing the check" (aka MAILING IT IN or COMPLETELY SELLING OUT or NOT CARING ABOUT THE MUSIC ANYMORE).
I mean, if Jimmy's heart isn't in the direction of the music, that's a terrible thing. The next phase of the Pumpkins is going to be an absolute trainwreck.
Hopefully Jeff and Ginger are laughing all the way to the bank, I feel bad for them having to put up with all of this bullshit drama.
Read between the lines dude, he's just trying to be civil about this and not crying like Billy has over the past few months.Come on.
Key indicators that Jimmy just indirectly told Billy to fuck off:
"I won't pretend I'm into something I'm not" and "cashing the check" (aka MAILING IT IN or COMPLETELY SELLING OUT or NOT CARING ABOUT THE MUSIC ANYMORE).
I mean, if Jimmy's heart isn't in the direction of the music, that's a terrible thing. The next phase of the Pumpkins is going to be an absolute trainwreck.
Hopefully Jeff and Ginger are laughing all the way to the bank, I feel bad for them having to put up with all of this bullshit drama.