distantmantra
Member
Tyrone Slothrop said:
No. The band needs to end. Now.
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Official Smashing Pumpkins thread
- Thread starter Diablos
- Start date
No. The band needs to end. Now.
YuriLowell
Member
distantmantra said:
Zwan pt2.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
as long as the music's good i don't care who's in the band. so i'm not casting the verdict until the new album
:lolFrenchMovieTheme said:
pretty much. not sure what else to say
The thing I do not understand is that the Zeitgeist tour and misc. stuff they did prior to Jimmy splitting was AMAZING. Gossamer, Superchrist, United States, As Rome Burns, Song for a Son, etc. etc. They were taking the live show to new levels. The band was tight and I was impressed; I was expecting it to be awkward but it really was amazing.bottles said:
And then he sells out to Visa, the NFL, Guitar Hero, etc. Jimmy goes from being in for life to leaving. And now this. It's just a complete wreck. And what they had was so good. Even in 2007-2008, yes.
TheDrowningMan
Member
I like to pretend that Corgan paid no attention to corporate interests, doesn't give a fuck about shooting for a radio audience the same age now as earlier fans were during the Siamese Dream / MCIS era(s) and operates as a classy, still-relevant elder statesman like Tom Waits or Nick Cave.
I didn't see the 2007-ish Pumpkins live, but I've seen plenty of people say a lot of that material far surpassed what made it on to the very patchy Zeitgeist album.
I didn't see the 2007-ish Pumpkins live, but I've seen plenty of people say a lot of that material far surpassed what made it on to the very patchy Zeitgeist album.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
it is true that he is vested in "the bands survival" so i guess that's why zeitgeist was a largely ho-hum play-it-safe album. i don't think that counts as "corporate interest" but it is pushing it.
i have a lot of qualms about the direction of the band since 2007, but i do know that billy has great ambitions for it. so just because jimmy wants to take a breather (and yes, that's all it is, dude's in his mid-40s with kids) should billy just grind it to a halt? i don't think so. Adore was Jimmy-less, and - besides some guitar twang - it was James-less. And likely Darcy-less, as that's when her drug problems started budding. (though i have to admit if it weren't for darcy we may have never got the godly Apples and Oranges)
like i said, wait until the new material comes out. if it's good, it doesn't matter who's in the band. I'm not necessarily ecstatic about the band either these days, but i sure don't want billy's ambitions stifled.
i have a lot of qualms about the direction of the band since 2007, but i do know that billy has great ambitions for it. so just because jimmy wants to take a breather (and yes, that's all it is, dude's in his mid-40s with kids) should billy just grind it to a halt? i don't think so. Adore was Jimmy-less, and - besides some guitar twang - it was James-less. And likely Darcy-less, as that's when her drug problems started budding. (though i have to admit if it weren't for darcy we may have never got the godly Apples and Oranges)
like i said, wait until the new material comes out. if it's good, it doesn't matter who's in the band. I'm not necessarily ecstatic about the band either these days, but i sure don't want billy's ambitions stifled.
Their live show this time around has been absolutely superb, I'd argue the best since Siamese/MCIS era tours. Without Jimmy you can forget that happening again, though.TheDrowningMan said:
Well, even though apparently Corgan later expressed regret, 50 different flavors of Zeitgeist screams "corporate interest".Tyrone Slothrop said:
He was in SP 'for life' four months prior to leaving. And he's not taking a breather, he's continuing his own band and doing other things. Adore was a departure album from what was normally expected of SP, so it made sense. Another album like Adore released next wouldn't have. You can only get away with doing that for so long. James and Darcy really are not required for SP to function. Darcy did next to nothing, James lost interest after the first two albums. You need Billy and Jimmy to make it work.
The problem is we all know how Billy behaves now. It's hard to continue to have as much interest as before, even if he continues to put out good songs, because he's acting like a complete dumbass.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
Diablos said:
i think that was the label's decision though
well that's all subjective and arguable, what makes the band 'work' or not. but as for as jimmy leaving, you really think he'll stay gone?? :lol i'd seriously bet 10 grand that he'll be back within the next 3-5 years barring extenuating circumstances
he's kinda wonky but hey he can wear all the dresses he wants and pray to xenu all he wants. i mean as long as i can still rock out his stuff i don't care what he does. i know this sounds cliche, but it's all about the music.
Please. Jimmy did so much for that band's sound it's kind of scary. He's easily the most talented member to ever take part in the band, in terms of how well he handles his instrument.Tyrone Slothrop said:
Anything is possible but I don't see him returning. He said on his blog, in the nicest way possible, that Billy is a sellout and doesn't care about the music half the time. That's pretty harsh. He's basically separating himself from that and doing his own thing, realizing Billy has basically lost his damn mind.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
Diablos said:
when was this? link please?
http://jimmychamberlincomplex.com/blog/Tyrone Slothrop said:
JC said:
Diablos is slightly exaggerating.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
it's an exaggeration in that he didn't come out and say it, but everything you need to know about why jimmy left is in between the lines there.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
oh lord.... i don't even know where to begin.
the man is just saying he isn't feeling it anymore, and rather than going along and making big money he'd rather work on JCC because that's where his heart is. that's all.
i mean. c'mon...
"there is no drama, no bad blood... i am glad he has chosen to continue under the name"
the man is just saying he isn't feeling it anymore, and rather than going along and making big money he'd rather work on JCC because that's where his heart is. that's all.
i mean. c'mon...
"there is no drama, no bad blood... i am glad he has chosen to continue under the name"
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
yeah, and then he says "It is his right."
there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he quit the band because of the direction billy is taking the band in. he is writing music to sell it for car commercials and the world series and visa. there is no integrity at this point and jimmy would rather not continue on with that.
there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he quit the band because of the direction billy is taking the band in. he is writing music to sell it for car commercials and the world series and visa. there is no integrity at this point and jimmy would rather not continue on with that.
FrenchMovieTheme said:
Because it's Billy's band. He started it, and he can choose to end it or not end it whenever he wants.
Jimmy quit because he'd rather make his own music in JCC than what Billy is doing in SP. In SP, Billy is king and calls all the shots. Period. Jimmy just wants to do his own thing. All of you saying Jimmy is calling Billy a sellout or whatever are just looking for ways to twist his words around to feel personally vindicated for what Billy has done to the band.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
but, to me, that type of passive-aggressive comment tells me billy was taking it in his direction and that was it.
i'm not saying the new pumpkins music won't be good, but i'm afraid it's just going to end up sounding like the new Cure where it's just robert smith and a lot has been lost
i'm not saying the new pumpkins music won't be good, but i'm afraid it's just going to end up sounding like the new Cure where it's just robert smith and a lot has been lost
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
Manics said:
listen to to Tarantula and tell me that with a straight face
FrenchMovieTheme said:
I don't disagree with you about that, isn't that how it's always been? It's ALWAYS been Billy's band, and he takes it where he wants. It's just that now Jimmy thinks it would be more worthwhile to do what HE wants now. But that comment Diablos made about Jimmy making some judgment call about how much or to what degree Billy "cares" about the music he's making is totally off base.
It suffered from shitty production values, as most Corgan things have since 2001 or so -- but their live show in 2007-2008 was fucking ace. You can label Zeitgeist the album as whatever you want, not even worth arguing over. But he basically just killed the magic he had left his his band (live show) by pissing Jimmy off.Manics said:
I'm sure he will still write good songs but I don't expect him to be as consistent anymore. And he's a dumbass.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
i give the titties an 8/10
Darcy is alive, wow. I actually want to hear this. Will post a link as soon as I download it (not available atm).
Check out Billy's recent tweets:
Code:
1.
Just watched the documentary on Ram Dass called 'Fierce Grace'. Worth seeing, powerful.about 11 hours ago from txt
2.
It's a darn shame God won't let certain sinners sleep!3:36 AM Jul 11th from txt
3.
There is no such thing as a 'little' miracle. All miracles are created equal.8:14 PM Jul 8th from txt
4.
Today is a day where we should remember all the children who are victimes of abuse.7:11 AM Jul 7th from txt
5.
Everyone must be in church, or engaged in some deep spiritual practice today, hence the lack of their twittering away...1:17 PM Jul 5th from txt
6.
Nothing outside us makes us free. So Happy Self-Independance Day!8:14 AM Jul 4th from txt
7.
If I know God, I know myself.11:00 AM Jul 2nd from txt
8.
Beauty is in knowing where you are...8:42 PM Jul 1st from txt
9.
If listening to me talk about God makes you uncomfortable, that's probably a good thing.8:42 PM Jun 30th from txt
10.
Thank you to the 2 shaman last night who performed miracles for me and many others. Very inspiring!8:55 AM Jun 30th from txt
11.
Thank you for this day.10:39 AM Jun 28th from txt
12.
The best career move is to be happy and healthy, to live a very long life being whoever God made you to be.5:42 PM Jun 27th from txt
13.
I wish we could treat each other in life each and every day the way we seem to find the strength to do in death.3:24 PM Jun 26th from txt
14.
God Bless Sky Sunlight Saxon, who passed from this Earth today. He changed my life for the better. God bless you Sky.10:28 AM Jun 25th from txt
15.
Creating Magik is not about being perfect, its about being true.9:22 PM Jun 24th from txt
16.
A new time has come.12:57 AM Jun 24th from txt
17.
Because YOU are absolutely worth it *wink*8:58 AM Jun 22nd from txt
18.
I want everyone to know I've sold out; to Jesus and Mother Mary, to Love and Grace. Oh, and to YOU, for YOU, and by YOU.8:31 AM Jun 22nd from txt
19.
Trust the Divine Plan whatever happens, however it happens.5:59 PM Jun 20th from txt
20.
Or one could rephrase that as 'today's wrong is often tomorrow's rite of passage'.8:57 PM Jun 17th from txtMight as well make the next SP disc a Christian album. His comments make me want to vomit.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Jimmy's leaving is exactly the same as when Alan Wilder left Depeche Mode.
It completely destroyed the band, the production's quality and the sound of DM.
Sorry to say that's what will probably happen to SP.
It completely destroyed the band, the production's quality and the sound of DM.
Sorry to say that's what will probably happen to SP.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
wow darcy from out of nowhere. i remember when darcy first left some SP fans said "well she was a shitty bassist anyways and melissa is better" or whatever, but that just felt like it was the beginning of the end. james not being there when the band got back together was a huge blow not from a talent standpoint (jeff is a great guitarist, probably physically more gifted than james but perhaps not as creative.... although how would we ever know with billy controlling everything). but then jimmy leaving was the final nail in the coffin.
i know billy can still write a good tune but the band is a shell of its former self. maybe its because jimmy left or maybe it took jimmy leaving to make me realize that.
well, we'll always have the memories. the sweet memories fellas!
i know billy can still write a good tune but the band is a shell of its former self. maybe its because jimmy left or maybe it took jimmy leaving to make me realize that.
well, we'll always have the memories. the sweet memories fellas!
The old memories will always be there, bring on the new ones. I'm not terribly disturbed by BC's Jesus bent or even Jimmy leaving. BC's solo album was really good to me (as was his show), as was JC's. I've long since stopped caring about BC's personal life by and large, and as someone who enjoyed Zeitgeist thoroughly, as well as the live show, I'm all in for whatever's next.
I may end up eating crow, but I think SP is notably more flexible than DM, but that's all subjective really.
I may end up eating crow, but I think SP is notably more flexible than DM, but that's all subjective really.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
so yeah here's the unedited darcy call. girl is kinda... out of it. hope she's alright
http://www.q101.com/blogs/manno/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10042283
http://www.q101.com/blogs/manno/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10042283
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
damn she sounds like she's off her rocker. wtf
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
retards on the SP board are in full throttle damage control mode
The live show was amazing. Take away Jimmy and it goes from amazing to pretty good, possibly so-so. Billy could bust out another Adore, but he can only get away with that every few years. You need Jimmy for SP to be consistently good. I'm really not looking forward to anything Billy Corgan anymore.Macam said:
I do expect Jimmy to continue to impress for a long time, however.Darcy sounds... :lol
FMT: Eh, James really didn't care about the band much after the mid 90's. And, really, Darcy was and likely still is a terrible bassist. She had a cool personality at times, but she was an awwwwful bassist.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
Macam said:
basically fans who're over-nostalgic about the band's image in the 90's.
part of SP's success was their image - blonde chick, asian dude, two white guys. in 1993 it stood out among the throngs of long haired white guys in flannel shirts.
unfortunately people don't realize darcy - and james to a lesser degree - were essentially touring musicians who dropped by the studio for like two minutes for each album. but since they were always in photo shoots, interviews and awards shows it seemed like their involvement was more than it was
Tyrone Slothrop said:
This is pretty much it. Although I do remember reading somewhere that James had a fair amount of input on Mellon Collie's guitar arrangements. Personally I'd be quite surprised if that was the case -- with a few exceptions ("Zero" and "Where Boys Fear to Tread" come to mind) it sounds like it's all Billy to me. Either way, James deserves some credit, at least for co-writing "Mayonaise."
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
I really don't mean to shorthand james, he contributed a good deal. especially after SD, he started being in the studio more. but in gist of it all, in the much broader picture, he wasn't integral.
And Darcy had input on what went on the albums. i don't mean to write either of them off or anything. but their contributions are commensurate with what Jeff and Ginger are doing now, more or less.
And Darcy had input on what went on the albums. i don't mean to write either of them off or anything. but their contributions are commensurate with what Jeff and Ginger are doing now, more or less.
I guess my bottom line is I'm willing to give SP a shot sans Jimmy, no matter what. BC can still write some fantastic music and while I'll miss Jimmy's 8 arms manning the drums, I can deal with the loss. JC just better put out some more music, b/c if he just disappears from the music scene altogether, that would be the bigger loss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UY33czT_Kw
Can't wait until Billy starts selling b-sides for commercial time, too.
Can't wait until Billy starts selling b-sides for commercial time, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqyoP3CRh-Y
New song, with Mike Bryne. :lol
It sounds like a recycled Endless Summer, but with AWFUL DRUMMING.
This kid SUCKS. No technique. He's utterly worthless.
New song, with Mike Bryne. :lol
It sounds like a recycled Endless Summer, but with AWFUL DRUMMING.
This kid SUCKS. No technique. He's utterly worthless.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
do not want.
the drumming isn't god awful but it's clear he's not even in jimmys universe when it comes to drumming.
better step up your game corgan, you don't have a world class musician bailing you out on drums anymore brohem!
billy is a giant doucher. he'd have to rock my fucking socks off with his new shit if he plans on getting anymore of my monies (concert or otherwise)
the drumming isn't god awful but it's clear he's not even in jimmys universe when it comes to drumming.
better step up your game corgan, you don't have a world class musician bailing you out on drums anymore brohem!
billy is a giant doucher. he'd have to rock my fucking socks off with his new shit if he plans on getting anymore of my monies (concert or otherwise)
PumpkinPie
Banned
I wish they just brought back the Big Muff sound and started rocking again I liked Zwan but that was because they weren't called The Smashing Pumpkins.
I liked Zwan but that was because they weren't called The Smashing Pumpkins.What? He sounds like shit. Nobody can technically fill JC's shoes, but it would have been nice if Billy stopped thinking about image and went with someone who was still talented and could, you know, define themselves as a drummer. SP's music, a great deal of it, depends on a reliable, heavy-hitting drummer at the very least.Macam said:
While I didn't mind the changes in sound/direction (in fact I welcomed them) until about mid-2008, the Big Muff obsessed Corgan of the early 90's is a completely different person.PumpkinPie said:I wish they just brought back the Big Muff sound and started rocking again
PumpkinPie
Banned
Oh yeah, I love Adore and Machina despite what critics say. I even feel that Machina was the true progression that the Pumpkins had been working towards, like they always knew that was going to be their finale. I just feel that the good old Big Muff days were the days when Billy seemed passionate about making music and not just doing it to satisfy fans.
Billy's problem is that he wants to satisfy fans but acts like he doesn't. It's so painfully obvious. He wants to do his own thing and hope that enough people jump on the bandwagon.PumpkinPie said:
Macam, call it harsh, but seriously... this is Jimmy when he basically had no idea how he would fit into the band. Consider it him at his sloppiest. The whole band was pretty WTF. And yet, he still sounds 10x better.