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Official Smashing Pumpkins thread

Oreoleo

Member
Do you have anything I can read about their final days and all the bullshit?

It's a lot of he-said, she-said BS. At the end of the day I don't think anyone outside of the band will REALLY know why it imploded. At it's simplest, I think it was just a clash of personalities between Billy and the rest (perhaps that's putting it mildly). Anyway, here are some choice quotes I dug up pretty fast:

David Pajo: ...[T]hat's one of the reasons I initially liked the guy—[Corgan] was so arrogant, it cracked me up. He would constantly bring up the fact that he sold 25 million records, or that his hit song was played at the Super Bowl or something. It just made me laugh. You know that character Alan Partridge, the one Steve Coogan played? Billy reminds me of Alan Partridge if he'd made a hit record. But after a while, the joke wears off.

Matt Sweeney: Back in the day, I got off on a great foot with [Corgan]. I met him before he was famous then we fell out of touch. Then we did Zwan and I hate to be negative but I wish it would have turned out differently...whatever you read or hear about him, it became more like that. There was a time when Corgan was really fun to work with and open. It's not up to me...it's between him and his maker. I don't want to trash the dude although he's trashed me.

Billy Corgan: I am not afraid of dirty, filthy people who have no self-respect or class...never have I met such creatures who feel so entitled to all yet contribute so little, not only to my life but the culture and the world in general...the world is on the brink of wars and mass terror, and their main concern is whether or not their indy friends still like them... [They were] people who told me they were my friends but were really just there to take, take, take...time will reveal them to be the poseurs they truly are...don't let their dirty faces fool you, they painted them that way...their filth is in their larcenous hearts, if they have them at all...

BC: The music wasn't the big problem, it was more their attitude... Sex acts between band members in public. People carrying drugs across borders. Pajo sleeping with the producer's girlfriend while we were making the record.

BC: Sex and drugs and junk. Tick off the list: heroin, band members having relationships...You don't trust the person next to you. I'm on the bus. I send an email to somebody and I throw my BlackBerry in my little day bag. The next day, my ex-girlfriend calls me screaming. Somebody in the group went into my BlackBerry and forwarded her an e-mail that another girl sends me. I mean, that's the kind of stuff we were dealing with.
 

Gouty

Bloodborne is shit
I feel like I have a pretty good bullshit detector. I am myself full of shit so its easy to spot my kind. Having said that, reading all those quotes you can hear bits of truth in all of them. Sounds like a mess all around.
 

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
I always wondered what the sex acts in public was. Pretty harsh of Billy to make that stuff public IMO since there was only one girl in the band. Although if she was sleeping with the producers GF too maybe she is just very very friendly?

Anyway, Real Love just came on my shuffle and it was awesome. Can't wait for that Machina re-issue, such an under-loved record.
 

Gouty

Bloodborne is shit
I wonder why Billy would care. You're in a rock band, you answer to no one. That's completely on the people fucking, they can answer for it if someone has a problem with it.
 

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
I wonder why Billy would care. You're in a rock band, you answer to no one. That's completely on the people fucking, they can answer for it if someone has a problem with it.

I'm guessing his religion maybe? And he's always been an anti-rock-star rock-star. No sex and drugs. Which sucks, because what else is there to do on tour, surely?

But yeah, the slut shaming was the beginning of my realising that Billy was a bit of a prick.
 
I always wondered what the sex acts in public was. Pretty harsh of Billy to make that stuff public IMO since there was only one girl in the band. Although if she was sleeping with the producers GF too maybe she is just very very friendly?

Anyway, Real Love just came on my shuffle and it was awesome. Can't wait for that Machina re-issue, such an under-loved record.

You're thinking of Paz Lenchantin, the quote is talking about David Pajo, easy mistake to make. Cheers!
 

Diablos

Member
Riverview is so good. Especially the BBC performance (along with Spilled Milk).

Zwan had so many great songs. Even Mary Star of the Sea had great songs, but it was produced so poorly that they weren't represented properly.

Also, while I am sure there's a lot of blame to go around -- it is no big secret that Billy Corgan is a royal pain in the ass to work with. Not at all surprising that everyone got tired of his shit.
 

daripad

Member
I didn't know there was a thread dedicates to them, I have been getting into their music and it is fantastic. My favorite album of them is Siamese Dream, specially because if Mayonnaise and Luna :3
 

Curufinwe

Member
Do you have anything I can read about their final days and all the bullshit?

I really hope Billy goes all 7 disc crazy on the Zwan album. It's my favorite period behind Siamese Dream.

Is he actually going to do a Zwan album?

I have wanted proper versions of songs like Chrysanthemum, The Empty Sea, Freedom Ain't What It Seems and What Have They Done To Me for so long.
 
Riverview is so good. Especially the BBC performance (along with Spilled Milk).

Zwan had so many great songs. Even Mary Star of the Sea had great songs, but it was produced so poorly that they weren't represented properly.

Also, while I am sure there's a lot of blame to go around -- it is no big secret that Billy Corgan is a royal pain in the ass to work with. Not at all surprising that everyone got tired of his shit.

The story of Billy's life since machina
 

Gouty

Bloodborne is shit
From the Wikipedia:

"The Smashing Pumpkins' two upcoming studio albums, Monuments to an Elegy (2014) and Day for Night (2015), will conclude the Teargarden by Kaleidyscope project. Corgan is unsure when Teargarden by Kaleidyscope will result in a box set, as originally announced, but it could include up to approximately 60 previously unreleased demos recorded for the project. He also stated that the future of the band is up in the air following the project's completion, saying: "as I said at the beginning of the Teargarden project, I looked at it like, OK, I'm going to take this journey, and when this journey is over — which it now will be with Day for Night — it will be the beginning a new era of what the Smashing Pumpkins could be in the 21st century, or it will be the end. In big capital letters. Goodbye, I'm done."

I knew about the two albums but I figured he'd swept the Teargarden concept under the rug. I guess hes going to further the charade that all of this music is somehow related beyond saying so in interviews. Also, threatening to quit....god what is with this dude???

Such a waste of talent.
 

Curufinwe

Member
He has a thousand or so good songs already with more to come. Hardly a waste of talent. You can't expect him to want to do it forever.
 
From the Wikipedia:

"The Smashing Pumpkins' two upcoming studio albums, Monuments to an Elegy (2014) and Day for Night (2015), will conclude the Teargarden by Kaleidyscope project. Corgan is unsure when Teargarden by Kaleidyscope will result in a box set, as originally announced, but it could include up to approximately 60 previously unreleased demos recorded for the project. He also stated that the future of the band is up in the air following the project's completion, saying: "as I said at the beginning of the Teargarden project, I looked at it like, OK, I'm going to take this journey, and when this journey is over — which it now will be with Day for Night — it will be the beginning a new era of what the Smashing Pumpkins could be in the 21st century, or it will be the end. In big capital letters. Goodbye, I'm done."

I knew about the two albums but I figured he'd swept the Teargarden concept under the rug. I guess hes going to further the charade that all of this music is somehow related beyond saying so in interviews. Also, threatening to quit....god what is with this dude???

Such a waste of talent.

he says "in big capital letters" but then "goodbye im done" isn't in capital letters! what could it mean!?

p.s.

billy gets in these pouty moods every now and again. just accept that you are no longer a giant draw and your best years are behind you. no shame with living off of your incredible catalog and giving the fans a great live show of this catalog. it's over for you creating incredible NEW music
 

Diablos

Member
He. is. so. dramatic. Break up the band for good, or don't -- but if you do, not even the original lineup a few years later would probably save it.

It's kind of hard to believe the same guy who wrote so many incredible songs -- some even recently -- also counts chemtrails in the sky, seems to be a bible thumper, and does interviews with Alex Jones. It must have been all the LSD.

He has a thousand or so good songs already with more to come. Hardly a waste of talent. You can't expect him to want to do it forever.
This is valid. Despite his production... issues he has still written some amazing stuff over the past decade. He is just so full of himself these days that he can't fully remember how to realize that vision, and it is a shame.

Also very true, over 1,000 songs (literally) under your belt is quite an accomplishment.
 

Jedeye Sniv

Banned
I didn't know there was a thread dedicates to them, I have been getting into their music and it is fantastic. My favorite album of them is Siamese Dream, specially because if Mayonnaise and Luna :3

Geek USA is my favourite on that record I think, those solos are just so fun.
 

DiscoJon

Banned
Looks like the SP camp threatened to put the smack down on Netphoria.

Note to all posting here on this forum, posting links to any and all unreleased material by the Smashing Pumpkins is prohibited here.

No one is to post links on this forum for any of the unreleased album material.

Anyone continuing to do so will be banned and the posts/threads deleted and your information may be turned over to relevant parties.

Thank you,

- Andrew


Oh well. I'm sure if leaks are going to happen they will get out someway or another.

BTW, Andrew Pakula is the biggest piece of shit in the SP internet community. Fuck him. I hope he gets sued into oblivion.
 

Diablos

Member
Netphoria has always been shady. Their past is coming back to bite them. Billy has probably been waiting for the right moment to go after Andrew/the site. I believe he met with him once, but ever since he has basically had a great amount of disdain for him and vice-versa.

I am kind of surprised the site is still online.
 

Oreoleo

Member
Wow, Pakula actually posted? Rumor was he'd forgotten his login info and abandoned the site. Guess Billy put the fear of god in him.
 
Looks like the SP camp threatened to put the smack down on Netphoria.

Note to all posting here on this forum, posting links to any and all unreleased material by the Smashing Pumpkins is prohibited here.

No one is to post links on this forum for any of the unreleased album material.

Anyone continuing to do so will be banned and the posts/threads deleted and your information may be turned over to relevant parties.

Thank you,

- Andrew


Oh well. I'm sure if leaks are going to happen they will get out someway or another.

BTW, Andrew Pakula is the biggest piece of shit in the SP internet community. Fuck him. I hope he gets sued into oblivion.


What's the deal with Andrew that you would say that? Ive heard the name but never anything about him really. I've been a member on that site but rarely visit it.
 

DiscoJon

Banned
You obviously never had your computer attacked by all the malware/spyware Pakula has knowingly put on his website in the past. Maybe I'm being to harsh, netphoria has provided a lot of leeks for the community.
 

Oreoleo

Member
Soooo did anyone archive those leaked songs? I guess if they are gonna be the Adore or Machina it isn't a big deal. I never got around to listening to Envelope Woman and a couple of the others, I think.
 

carl.gif
 

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
For some reason this reminds me of the Puff Daddy track that Trent Reznor remixed way back when...sounded like the coolest thing ever compared to the original, it even complemented his flow so much better.
 

Curufinwe

Member
I love Methusela, even though the copy I got from Napster 14 years ago is not great quality.

Father never quite grew up, he just grew old gets me every time.
 
You guys. I'm going through the vids being posted on Netpho... some of the stuff Billy played at Ravinia was good. Like, really good.

Methusela: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHLtrrNfZAo
Galapogos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kADDvll7Xq0

I've never been too fussed about either of these songs, (my old copy of Methusela is *such* bad quality, and Galapogos gets lost amongst the giants on MCIS) but I'm sort of in awe here. He nailed this.

I can't get past the continuing decline of his voice. There were a few moments in there where he dropped back into a more natural voice (the first chorus), but the post-voice lessons affectations are too much for me.
 
it all started going to shit when he got "singing lessons" in the late 90's

To be fair, if he kept singing the way he did he could have damaged his vocal chords. I can't even sing for fun anymore because I never knew how to sing properly and I strained mine. I'm not about to learn since all my singing was just for fun, this is his bread and butter.

His more recent change could be cuz of age. Look at Robert Plant, dude can't hit certain notes anymore.
 
To be fair, if he kept singing the way he did he could have damaged his vocal chords. I can't even sing for fun anymore because I never knew how to sing properly and I strained mine. I'm not about to learn since all my singing was just for fun, this is his bread and butter.

His more recent change could be cuz of age. Look at Robert Plant, dude can't hit certain notes anymore.

i suppose so. just sad that all these great vocalists have their voices go away with time. i remember kurt cobain ran into the same issue before he killed himself (doctor recommended he change his singing style or else)
 

Curufinwe

Member
Interesting Adore interview from Monday.

http://radio.com/2014/09/22/billy-corgan-smashing-pumpkins-adore-interview/

Back to Adore, one of the bonus tracks is “Let Me Give the World to You,” which was produced by Rick Rubin. How did you come to work with him? And why didn’t you release the song?

It was just that one song. I knew Rick a little bit. My management were very alarmed with the direction of the record, and I think they called him to help.

What did he think about the record?

He thought it was a bit strange, but he’s not a person who judges. He’s very gifted. He came in, and I played him some stuff and he was like, ‘Wow, you’re on a very interesting trip there.’ The idea was put forward from management: would you like to do a song with Rick? ‘Sure, I love Rick!’ Rick influenced the production style on [Smashing Pumpkins' 1991 debut] Gish. And I listened to a lot of the things he did in the ’80s. But then suddenly, it’s a different dynamic, and I’m not running the show. Rick’s kind of a hands-off producer, he just kind of sits in the back and doesn’t say a lot until he’s excited. Rick’s world was different, it was a little more L.A. It’s a bit more… candles in the studio and lamps and stuff like that. The track turned out OK, I didn’t love it and I didn’t hate it. It wasn’t really the song as I’d envisioned it. [Ed. note: Smashing Pumpkins later re-recorded the song for 2000's Machina II/The Friends & Enemies of Modern Music.]

I had every intention of putting it on the record, it was mastered with the record, it was going to be the last song in the sequence. And the true story is, I handed in the record to the record company. And I get the call, they want to make ‘Let Me Give the World to You’ the first single. And I was like, ‘Hell, no.’ And the only way I could stop them was to take it off the record. Someone asked me about this, ‘It sounds like it could have been a hit song at that time, so why take it off the record?’ And I said, ‘Because I spent a whole f—ing year trying to make this avant-garde thing.’ ‘Perfect’ or ‘Ava Adore’ were more representative [of the album], and now we’re gonna release the song with the dry, milquetoast production. And it isn’t even as avant-garde as the stuff on Mellon Collie, much less Adore! I didn’t want to step back to simple pop [on the single], and then try to sell this avant-garde record! It wasn’t that I hated it, or even that I hated what Rick had done. He did a great job. It was more that I didn’t want to blow up everything I’d done for this one song. So the song had to go. And in the basement it went, for sixteen or eighteen years.
 

Diablos

Member
Adore is not the worst SP album.

Gish thru Adore (and all the misc. stuff that came with them) are all amazing in their own right. It highlights the prolific output of this band. Machina was a misstep if only for its awful production values, but Machina 2 is consistent with the previous releases.

Worst SP album can go to Shitegeist or Oceania.
 
Ffffff that noise on the last page. Its not a rock album but Adore's on a whole other level. The best songs Billy ever wrote are on it. I put it ahead of Gish and Machina easily.

Did anyone pick up the reissue? I think I'm waiting for xmas.

And yeah, Zeitgeist is def the worst, just angry and misguided and zero fun, least it spawned a nice 20th anni. tour with Jimmy.
 

Dead

well not really...yet
What are y'alls thoughts on the actual adore remaster?

Listened to some of it and found it's noticeably less harsh. It comes off as a bit smoother. Compared a few songs back and forth listening through some pretty high end headphones and a DAC
 
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