Support NeoGAF

[Sharp]

Back on the subject of difficult-to-attain missiles, there's a set in a the very left of Norfair that are a bitch. It's a shaft with platforms that break when you land on them, and the missiles are hidden in the wall directly across from where you come in at the upper right. Is there any (non-impossible) way to get this one without space jump? Wall jump doesn't work because of the platforms' proximity to the wall, and trying to freeze the Geemers(?) and jump on them is such a pain. I'm trying to keep my time under 2 hours on this playthrough, so I don't want to have to come back later.

You can shinespark to them, but it requires a really firm mastery of the short charge technique (assuming I have the right room in mind). It always takes me a ton of tries to get.

Edit: You can also infinite bomb jump to them I think. That's definitely easier to do if you haven't practiced short charge.

 

[tnw]

Back on the subject of difficult-to-attain missiles, there's a set in a the very left of Norfair that are a bitch. It's a shaft with platforms that break when you land on them, and the missiles are hidden in the wall directly across from where you come in at the upper right. Is there any (non-impossible) way to get this one without space jump? Wall jump doesn't work because of the platforms' proximity to the wall, and trying to freeze the Geemers(?) and jump on them is such a pain. I'm trying to keep my time under 2 hours on this playthrough, so I don't want to have to come back later.

If you want under two hours, no.

Basically what I do is I don't get the Ice Beam until I go to beat ridley (the ice beam is never necessary in a 100% speed run except for getting the spring ball in maridia, which I can't do anyway!). That way, you come from the main shaft in norfair, go through the super missle door, speed dash left, shine spark through the next room. Use spring ball to get the ice beam super easily (not necessary though), go back, power bomb through the floor. Make sure you AREN'T pressing run when you enter the next room because you will fall down. Then just shoot across the room and space jump to get it. Fall down, and then you're on your way to lower norfair/ridley.

 

[Sharp]

If you want under two hours, no.

Basically what I do is I don't get the Ice Beam until I go to beat ridley (the ice beam is never necessary in a 100% speed run except for getting the spring ball in maridia, which I can't do anyway!). That way, you come from the main shaft in norfair, go through the super missle door, speed dash left, shine spark through the next room. Use spring ball to get the ice beam super easily (not necessary though), go back, power bomb through the floor. Make sure you AREN'T pressing run when you enter the next room because you will fall down. Then just shoot across the room and space jump to get it. Fall down, and then you're on your way to lower norfair/ridley.

Not getting the ice beam is a little silly, though. It makes killing Metroids, and Phantoon and Botwoon, a lot easier, plus you don't need the spring ball to get the ice beam easily.

 

[the androgyne]

My memory's probably fuzzy but i could have sworn i got that missile once just by a fluke jump off of the breaking platforms with the missile already visible.

How many of you remember the last item you needed to get 100%? For the longest time, one of the simplest missiles eluded me. I think it was in the second room after taking the first right hand path when u first enter Norfair, under some lava you just had to blow away a block.

 

[Sharp]

Yeah, that one is awesome. I love upgrades like that--hidden where no one would expect them. The one just outside the Wrecked Ship, high up in the wall, is another good one. The two hidden in Brinstar through the hidden passageway are a bit much, though.

 

[tnw]

Not getting the ice beam is a little silly, though. It makes killing Metroids, and Phantoon and Botwoon, a lot easier, plus you don't need the spring ball to get the ice beam easily.

If I remember correctly, Phantoon takes four rounds of 3 super charge shots. I've seen Red Scarlet do menu switching during that fight and I didn't really understand why. Botwoon is quick killed with a power bomb charged wave beam shot on the first hole he comes out of.

And since it's a 100% speed run, I of course get the ice beam, I just don't go out of my way earlier either mock balling in etc to get it. It's very true you don't need the spring ball, I was just using it for reference as to how late in the game I pass through that section. I would argue that the time saved from not getting ice beam early would cancel time savings in the fight against phantoon and glitching to get the spring ball , but I'm not that much of a veteran.

Cutting out 'early' ice beam cut down a signifigant few minutes on my speed run!

How many of you remember the last item you needed to get 100%? For the longest time, one of the simplest missiles eluded me. I think it was in the second room after taking the first right hand path when u first enter Norfair, under some lava you just had to blow away a block

I think for me it was the missle in the right wall near the turtle monster thing in maridia. grrrr.

 

[Sharp]

Not getting the ice beam early doesn't save any time because having the ice beam equipped makes every boss battle faster. Even in TASes optimized for actual (not in-game) time, the ice beam is always acquired early for that reason. It also helps you glitch past the Zebetites and with various other tricks.

(Also, I'm not sure how you're spending minutes getting the ice beam.)

 

[Johnas]

How many of you remember the last item you needed to get 100%? For the longest time, one of the simplest missiles eluded me. I think it was in the second room after taking the first right hand path when u first enter Norfair, under some lava you just had to blow away a block.

For me it was the missile expansion in the right wall in Maridia (I think) in the room with the giant turtle that lifts you up to the top of the room. I actually bought the guide just so I could find that last expansion.

Ah, I see tnw feels my pain.

 

[donny2112]

In case anyone is still looking for a good WaveBird control scheme for Super Metroid, I've found this combination works well, at least for normal playing.

A: Jump
B: Dash
Y: Shoot
X: Cancel

The D-pad isn't giving me too much trouble, either. I've been able to single wall jump without much of a problem. $20 saved!

 

[Sharp]

Yeah, that upgrade was definitely a pain in the ass. I spent forever looking around for the last missile expansion and eventually resorted to IBJing up every long verticale wall, which is how I found it.

 

[tnw]

Not getting the ice beam early doesn't save any time because having the ice beam equipped makes every boss battle faster. Even in TASes optimized for actual (not in-game) time, the ice beam is always acquired early for that reason. It also helps you glitch past the Zebetites and helps in other ways.

(Also, I'm not sure how you're spending minutes getting the ice beam.)

Explain to me how it makes it faster. Crocomire cannot be damaged. I'm definately not sure about phantoon but red scarlet still took 4 rounds of 3 super shots to beat it. I don't fight ridley or draygon with weapon shots Ice beam doesn't help with botwoon because you have to deequip to use the power bomb charged wave beam shot then finish him off with some super missles quick kill him.

The golden chozo might be true, but I try and extend out that battle to max out my super missles when he spews out those little balls. You can get up to 5 or so super missles at a time there, so if that battle goes just a teensy weensy slower, that's okay.

I DO eventaully pick it up on my way to lower norfair to fight ridley, so I have it before getting to the zebetites. The ice beam is on the way to the missle pack in question (which is how it came up in the first place).

even if you have the speed dash, getting the ice beam takes at 1 maybe 2 minutes.

 

[Sharp]

Explain to me how it makes it faster. Crocomire cannot be damaged. I'm definately not sure about phantoon but red scarlet still took 4 rounds of 3 super shots to beat it. I don't fight ridley or draygon with weapon shots Ice beam doesn't help with botwoon because you have to deequip to use the power bomb charged wave beam shot then finish him off with some super missles quick kill him.

The golden chozo might be true, but I try and extend out that battle to max out my super missles when he spews out those little balls. You can get up to 5 or so super missles at a time there, so if that battle goes just a teensy weensy slower, that's okay.

It is actually technically possible to one-round Phantoon, but either way there are now better (less rounds) strategies available for combatting Phantoon than there were when Red Scarlet did her run. Metroid2002 has the details if you look hard enough (and yes, there has been a lot of discussion on the subject of not getting the ice beam "early"; it was concluded that it's not a good idea). Fighting Ridley with weapon shots is generally faster than fighting him with Missiles and Super Missiles but if you don't do it that way that's cool. There are also, as I said earlier, some trick that are faster with the ice beam, and there's no conceivable way that you could climb the Red Brinstar shaft without ice beam faster than with it. Note that when I say "there is no conceivable way" I mean "even in the TAS it is a total of 10 frames faster to do so."

So yeah.

Edit:

even if you have the speed dash, getting the ice beam takes at 1 maybe 2 minutes.

That's simply not true. You can dash into the room, immediately jump up and morph ball, and get the ice beam very quickly. You can then leave immediately, freeze the floating creatures before the gate, and run across them, mockballing just before you reach the door that you opened. You can then go across the ice beam area without having to worry about the closing gates, as if you mockballed properly you will go past them just before they close, and if you have speed dash, which you should if this is supposed to be timely, you can run to the door. Definitely takes less than a minute in-game.

 

[tnw]

It is actually technically possible to one-round Phantoon, but either way there are now better (less rounds) strategies available for combatting Phantoon than there were when Red Scarlet did her run. Metroid2002 has the details if you look hard enough (and yes, there has been a lot of discussion on the subject of not getting the ice beam "early"; it was concluded that it's not a good idea). Fighting Ridley with weapon shots is generally faster than fighting him with Missiles and Super Missiles but if you don't do it that way that's cool. There are also, as I said earlier, some trick that are faster with the ice beam, and there's no conceivable way that you could climb the Red Brinstar shaft without ice beam faster than with it. Note that when I say "there is no conceivable way" I mean "even in the TAS it is a total of 10 frames faster to do so."

So yeah.

I'll check out the discussion boards. I've never tried fighting ridley with beam charges (we're not talking murder beam here right?) Phantoon is a bit of a time sink, so if I can siginifigantly cut time in that battle by getting the ice beam I'll do it.

Getting up red brinstar shaft. Drop power bomb, destroy enemies and block in way, and just wall jump up. it's faster if not equal in time to freezing the enemies and jumping up. That was the one stopping point that always had me collecting the ice beam, but then i figured out this way.

How come Metroid 2002 doesn't have a video up of the faster ways to kill phantoon?

It takes more time to go into 4 different rooms to get the ice beam, then to just forget about it and pick it up on the way down to lower norfair. But again, I haven't read the discussion boards, I'm not claiming to be an imperical source of data here.

 

[Sharp]

I'll check out the discussion boards. I've never tried fighting ridley with beam charges (we're not talking murder beam here right?) Phantoon is a bit of a time sink, so if I can siginifigantly cut time in that battle by getting the ice beam I'll do it.

Getting up red brinstar shaft. Drop power bomb, destroy enemies and block in way, and just wall jump up. it's faster if not equal in time to freezing the enemies and jumping up. That was the one stopping point that always had me collecting the ice beam, but then i figured out this way.

How come Metroid 2002 doesn't have a video up of the faster ways to kill phantoon?

I guarantee you that it is slower, not faster, to walljump up and drop the powerbomb than to freeze the enemies, because, as I said earlier, it only saves ten frames to walljump up in a TAS aiming for fastest time--in-game it actually makes a TAS lose time. And you'll have to look in the metroid2002 forums to find out, as nate doesn't update the videos. Ever. Except maybe a little bit but they're horribly outdated.

Oh and yeah, no murder beam here.

 

[Windu]

In case anyone is still looking for a good WaveBird control scheme for Super Metroid, I've found this combination works well, at least for normal playing.

A: Jump
B: Dash
Y: Shoot
X: Cancel

The D-pad isn't giving me too much trouble, either. I've been able to single wall jump without much of a problem. $20 saved!

meh, i used my wavebird for a day and finally said fuck it and bought a classic controller.

 

[Sharp]

Oh by the way--room transitions are not counted on the in-game clock. Going into different rooms does not impact your final time.

 

[Proc]

meh, i used my wavebird for a day and finally said fuck it and bought a classic controller.

So worth the money to. I've been loving this pad.

 

[tnw]

Oh by the way--room transitions are not counted on the in-game clock. Going into different rooms does not impact your final time.

Yeah, I know. But going across two rooms, up one and left, and into the ice beam room, and then back out. That seems like close to a minute of game time to me. It's certainly more than not doing it at all.

 

[Sharp]

Ugh, I was trying to find a video on Youtube for you demonstrating the very fast ice beam collection but I can't seem to do so. Watch Hotarubi's 32 minute run, and see how he does it there. It is by no means impossible and easily takes less than a minute. There is also a :46 (I think) savestate-assisted run of his floating around somewhere that showcases a very good, and humanly possible, 100% route.

 

[Red Scarlet]

That's awesome. What do you mean by "jumping up instead of down is better", though?

Just talking to myself, jumping up like \ and doing a spark is faster than an arch jump like /\.

I don't know why the 1 round Phantoon isn't up at m2k2, unless nate stopped adding updates. It's not possible without turbo/emulation though.

 

[impirius]

It's some bweeeooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrbweeeeeeeeeoooooooooooooor sound that gets louder the closer to an item you are. Put sound effect volume at 100% and music to 0% and you'll have an easier time item hunting. With sound effects at 100% or lower and music at 100%, the buzz sound is easy to miss unless an item is right next to you.

......

...oh.

Well, finding out 13 years late is better than never!

 

[Sharp]

Just talking to myself, jumping up like \ and doing a spark is faster than an arch jump like /\.

I don't know why the 1 round Phantoon isn't up at m2k2, unless nate stopped adding updates. It's not possible without turbo/emulation though.

Nate hasn't exactly stopped adding updates, he just hasn't been updating them nearly as much as he should be. Basically his last update was just to clarify the space-time beam, even though there had been a lot of discoveries since his previous update.

 

[Jammy]

I'm stuck after getting those Hi-Jump Boots. I'm at a save point where all I can do is go down a corridor and bomb the wall, which reveals arrows pointing the way I came from. In the main area there's three doors I can go into, two of which exhaust my energy right when I step into them and a third has doors that fall down before I can run underneath.

There's also a yellow door that I don't know how to open.

 

[Cheesemeister]

There's also a yellow door that I don't know how to open.

Uh, power bomb?

 

[Sharp]

He doesn't have them yet.

Jammy,

Spoiler

go back up and check the walls in the elevator room. You may find something of interest.

 

[tnw]

the arrows aren't pointing you in a direction. it indicates that they can be destroyed using the speed dash.

 

[Sharp]

the arrows aren't pointing you in a direction. it indicates that they can be destroyed using the speed dash.

He doesn't have the

Spoiler

Varia Suit

yet so that's a little premature.

 

[tnw]

He doesn't have the

Spoiler

Varia Suit

yet so that's a little premature.

c'mon, I know that. just explaining what the symbol means.

isn't all of this explained in the original instruction manual anyway?

 

[Orin GA]

Just incase no one has mentioned it. In the last area there are 2 save pods. Do dont save in the very last one or you will be unable to go back....Unless nintendo changed it..

 

[Dalauz]

I own the original game! i really want a Wii just to download it...in between my small contribution

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d1vt6gH3CTk

 

[Lee N]

I own the original game! i really want a Wii just to download it...in between my small contribution

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d1vt6gH3CTk

Why would you even bother playing the game when it's that slow?

Bad emulator is bad.

 

[ronito]

So I'm trying to finish it as fast as possible for me (under 2). But Ridley keeps destroying me like nothing else. I usually don't have a problem with him because I have a lot more super missles/missles and energy. I only have 24 super missles and 80 missles but I can't seem to finish the guy off. I'm doing everything by the book. Setting two power bombs before he appears and dodging and that whole bit but I can't beat him. I read in an FAQ that a charged ice beam is better to use than super missles. That can't be true. Is it? Any other tips would be helpful.

 

[Sharp]

So I'm trying to finish it as fast as possible for me (under 2). But Ridley keeps destroying me like nothing else. I usually don't have a problem with him because I have a lot more super missles/missles and energy. I only have 24 super missles and 80 missles but I can't seem to finish the guy off. I'm doing everything by the book. Setting two power bombs before he appears and dodging and that whole bit but I can't beat him. I read in an FAQ that a charged ice beam is better to use than super missles. That can't be true. Is it? Any other tips would be helpful.

Yes, it is true. Charged ice beam (+ plasma and wave obviously) does significantly more damage to Ridley than Super Missiles do. Ridley is tough, though. I've fought him and won with three energy tanks, but it took a lot of practice. Basically, don't get grabbed, jump a lot (do the screw attack jump to avoid his fireballs) and hit him going straight up with charged beams as fast as possible after emptying your super missiles into him (only because they're fast; they're not extraordinarily effective against Ridley). Don't even bother with missiles, as by the end of the game I'm pretty sure even an uncharged beam does more damage than they do.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Doesn't charge+wave+ice+plasma do 900 damage a hit to Ridley, while Supers do 600? So it's faster to do more damage with Supers then go to the beams. Uncharged beam doesn't hit him for any damage. You'd have to hit Ridley with 9 Missiles to do the same amount of damage as a charge+wave+ice+plasma shot, so you'd be best off with Supers then charged shots once he starts flying around.

tnw: beams do more damage with the more you have equipped, so having Ice Beam does some more damage than without.

 

[Sharp]

Doesn't charge+wave+ice+plasma do 900 damage a hit to Ridley, while Supers do 600? So it's faster to do more damage with Supers then go to the beams. Uncharged beam doesn't hit him for any damage. You'd have to hit Ridley with 9 Missiles to do the same amount of damage as a charge+wave+ice+plasma shot, so you'd be best off with Supers then charged shots once he starts flying around.

tnw: beams do more damage with the more you have equipped, so having Ice Beam does some more damage than without.

Yeah, if you aim properly Supers are good, I just tend to run out quickly. I know the uncharged beam doesn't damage Ridley, I was just giving it as a comparison to show why it's not worth using missiles late in the game.

 

[Red Scarlet]

If you don't feel like unequipping the Ice Beam, missiles are still a bit handy on the weaker badguys going to the last area though!

 

[Sharp]

Guys remember to list your purchases in the REAL Wii VC Sales Thread! Remember: Gunstar is our goal!

 

[Windu]

Guys remember to list your purchases in the REAL Wii VC Sales Thread! Remember: Gunstar is our goal!

are they ever going to update that thing? The OP post was last updated on 5-7-07.

 

[Sharp]

Maybe not, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep posting in it!

 

[Zynx]

Complete Super Metroid with 100% without using a guide and complete Metroid Prime 1 100% without using a guide. Then you can talk about 3D exploration vs. 2D exploration. IMO, 3D exploration is made easier by the fact that designers want you to find everything. They point it out, give hints as to where a hidden area is. Super Metroid does no such thing in the quest for 100%. 3D exploration could be better than 2D exploration, hypothetically, if they actually hid things in the 3D versions, but that's not the case comparing Super Metroid to Metroid Prime, IMO.

Well you could always use the x-ray scope everywhere, which I did...

If they hid things in the 3d version, it could be impossible to find, the possible hiding places are higher by a literal order of magnitude.

 

[stolin]

Finished Super Metroid last night. 6:18 with 88%. Not bad for not having played in a few years... I'm not ready for Prime 3: Corruption tomorrow...

 

[Christine]

Okay. Which E-tank and power bomb expansion am I most likely to have missed?

That's a fairly difficult question to answer. If you're only missing two items I'd suggest looking at one of the all-encompassing Super Metroid maps that are now a dime a dozen on the Internet.

Damn it. I was hoping for some mind-reading.

 

[Sharp]

Okay. Which E-tank and power bomb expansion am I most likely to have missed?

That's a fairly difficult question to answer. If you're only missing two items I'd suggest looking at one of the all-encompassing Super Metroid maps that are now a dime a dozen on the Internet.

 

[Red Scarlet]

My guess for Power Bomb is the one at the NE part of Lower Norfair that a lot of people miss their first time through.

Energy Tank..it might be the Energy Tank by the Power Bomb through the 'mouth' of the face-looking thing in Lower Norfair.

Those would be my picks, mainly because the X-Ray Scope does not really show the secret passages to get to both of those items.

But if you are only missing those two..then you'd have to have gotten the missile on the way to the Power Bomb, so the Power Bomb may be one earlier in Lower Norfair or the one after Crocomire..maybe that's the E-Tank you missed too!

The last 2 items I found were the missile in the turtle room and the missile in Kraid's area that you need Power Bombs for.

 

[tnw]

Doesn't charge+wave+ice+plasma do 900 damage a hit to Ridley, while Supers do 600? So it's faster to do more damage with Supers then go to the beams. Uncharged beam doesn't hit him for any damage. You'd have to hit Ridley with 9 Missiles to do the same amount of damage as a charge+wave+ice+plasma shot, so you'd be best off with Supers then charged shots once he starts flying around.

tnw: beams do more damage with the more you have equipped, so having Ice Beam does some more damage than without.

But the ice beam alone doesn't add that signifigant amount of damage, right? I seem to remember reading that somewhere. So by me skipping it and going to fight phantoon, it wouldn't make that much of a difference right?

I get the ice beam before I go to ridley, so I could ostensibly use charged shot to fight him, but super missles are faster.

 

[Sharp]

I'm pretty sure the ice beam adds a fairly significant amount of damage. Just trust me when I say it is faster, at least if you get it quickly like Hotarubi does.

 

[neoism]

that one fucking killed me. I hate shinesparking for long times. The excessive amounts of precise button combinations makes me nervous as hell. After I got that one and the 100% I said: never again.

lol I remember that shit.
100% in Zero Mission took me 9 hours

 

[Odrion]

Planning on purchasing this once I manage to get my Wii online (motion controllers may be convienent, but the lack of a broadband socket isn't >:[), how long would this game be for someone who is playing it for the first time and wants to collect a good amount of stuff?

 

[Sharp]

Planning on purchasing this once I manage to get my Wii online (motion controllers may be convienent, but the lack of a broadband socket isn't >:[), how long would this game be for someone who is playing it for the first time and wants to collect a good amount of stuff?

It really depends on how you play it. My first time took me thirteen hours in-game and a lot longer in real-time as I messed around a lot without saving; some people here have more like six or seven. It's unlikely that you'll get much lower than that without a guide if you're playing for the first time. Either way, absolutely you should get it.

 

[Dartastic]

Ok. So now I'm freaking stuck. I've been exploring Maridia, but I need to get into the lower right corner of the map so I can work my way to the boss. I just got eaten by a crab claw thing when I just came in from the top right, and at the bottom of the sand the right door is blocked. That's the only place that I can think of going, and it's greyed out. Help?