It's normal software bloat. Nobody wants to put together really nice elegant software anymore. Consumers don't care how awesome the you compressed the hell out of something, they want something they can see. It's features, features, features. It doesn't help that the hardest things in software development is drawing the line and not going out of your scope. As you develop projects will bloat over time. Giving hard limits is actually a really good way to curb this type of stuff.
Official Worldwide VC, WiiWare, & DSiWare Thread
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Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
wsippel said:
That may be, but I think there's 1 in a million chance that retail-like sized videogames could fit in <50MB nowadays, which is what we were talking about.
whiterabbit
Member
I just finished spending the 5,000 points ($50) that my mom got me for my birthday last year. Downloaded Ys Books I & II and Super Star Soldier. Both are tough as nails.
FFantasyFX
Member
Yaweee said:
Only Romance of the Three Kingdoms IV. However, Nobunaga's Ambition, New Horizons, and Genghis Khan II have all recently been ESRB rated, so hopefully they'll start hitting in an orderly fashion soon. Still waiting for Aerobiz Supersonic though.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Is MrDriller Wiiware (and DsiWare?) a complete entry on the franchise with different levels/locations or just some "endless mode"?
Hopefully it's good, so pumped for this and Bubble Bobble!
Hopefully it's good, so pumped for this and Bubble Bobble!
Dash Kappei said:
Mr. Driller and Bubble Bobble are both fantastic versions, and hopefully this trend continues tomorrow with....
Rainbow Islands: Towering Adventure WiiWare!
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/wiiware/wrij/index.html
A Link to the Past
Banned
Not even Nintendo takes advantage of the service, and like said previously, all they ever make are puzzles.
Dreamwriter
Member
Deku said:
You can't compare storage of really old games to modern games at all, and it's not just due to what people "demand". Masters of Orion is the example you gave. Let's see, it used VGA graphics at 256 colors and a resolution of 320x200, which means one full screen of art took up 64k. A modern Wii game will have a resolution of 640x480 at 4 million colors, which means one full screen of art takes up 1.2MB, nineteen times the space of a VGA screen. So there's a 19x size difference right off the bat, just because of tech specs. Far, far worse, is sound and music. MoO supported MIDI and synthesizer sound cards. So all it had to store for a song was which notes to play and a few bytes telling how the instrument should sound. A minute-long song could take up 4k of storage. The Wii all sound is full digitized recordings. Basically, MP3's. Even as compressed as MP3's are, that's still roughly 512k per minute, and that's at just 64k quality; 128 times the size of an MoO song. Sound effects, well, many sound effects back in the day would have been done in synthesizer as well, since the Sound Blaster only had one digital sound channel, and the quality of that digital sound was pretty low as well, so the sound wouldn't take up near what a modern one would to be at a decent standard of quality.
MoO required 14MB hard drive space; be assured that to make the EXACT same game on the Wii (from scratch; not just emulating an old VGA PC) would require a hell of a lot more; probably over 100MB.
Now, as to why developers associate limitations placed on them as being 'bad', that's pretty obvious - it takes a LOT more work to get the same quality from a smaller game. For minimum development time, ease of programming, and thus maximum profit, size limitations would need to be thrown out the window. Adding limitations seriously drives up the required budget to make the game.
swerve said:Mr. Driller and Bubble Bobble are both fantastic versions, and hopefully this trend continues tomorrow with....
Rainbow Islands: Towering Adventure WiiWare!
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/wiiware/wrij/index.html
Fuuuuck... Why did I sell my Wii?!? God I hope these come to XBLA.
WII-KLY UPDATE: ONE WIIWARE GAME AND ONE VIRTUAL CONSOLE GAME ADDED TO WII SHOP CHANNEL
March 2, 2009
In like a lamb and out like a lion, or vice-versa? Whether March finds you digging out from a late-winter blizzard or reeling in the spring thaw, the fun is both mild and wild at the Wii Shop Channel. Even the littlest lambs in your household can take part in a cool new family-friendly WiiWare game, while strategy-loving gamers will be roaring like lions as they battle evil foes in a classic Virtual Console title.
Nintendo adds new and classic games to the Wii Shop Channel at 9 a.m. Pacific time every Monday. Wii owners with a high-speed Internet connection can redeem Wii Points to download the games. Wii Points can be purchased in the Wii Shop Channel or at retail outlets. This week's new games are:
WiiWare
Family & Friends Party (Gammick Entertainment, 1-8 players, Rated E for Everyone, 1,000 Wii Points): Have fun with all your friends and family as you take on some very exciting challenges. This is an interactive board game for as many as eight players of all ages. The goal is to be the first to complete a series of challenges. During each turn, a challenge will be played by one or two players per team depending on the type of challenge you've been given. (Other players on your team can still help and support you). There are six different "Single" challenges that must be played cooperatively by members of the same team. Family & Friends Party can also suggest "Versus" challenges, which must be played competitively by all teams at the same time.
Virtual Console
Ogre Battle: The March of the Black Queen (Super NES, 1 player, Rated E for Everyone, 800 Wii Points): It's up to you to defeat the Empire. It's been nearly a quarter of a century since the Zetegenian Empire first conquered the Kingdoms of Zenobia with a wrath of fear and bloodshed. You are the leader of a band of rebels who've fought to preserve the last shred of honor in this desperate time of treachery. Manage the ranks of a full-blown rebel army, complete with hundreds of characters, magic items, weapons and mystical Tarot cards. You must succeed in ousting the evil usurpers-your fate, and that of the entire population, depends on it.
For more information about Wii, please visit wii.com.
March 2, 2009
In like a lamb and out like a lion, or vice-versa? Whether March finds you digging out from a late-winter blizzard or reeling in the spring thaw, the fun is both mild and wild at the Wii Shop Channel. Even the littlest lambs in your household can take part in a cool new family-friendly WiiWare game, while strategy-loving gamers will be roaring like lions as they battle evil foes in a classic Virtual Console title.
Nintendo adds new and classic games to the Wii Shop Channel at 9 a.m. Pacific time every Monday. Wii owners with a high-speed Internet connection can redeem Wii Points to download the games. Wii Points can be purchased in the Wii Shop Channel or at retail outlets. This week's new games are:
WiiWare
Family & Friends Party (Gammick Entertainment, 1-8 players, Rated E for Everyone, 1,000 Wii Points): Have fun with all your friends and family as you take on some very exciting challenges. This is an interactive board game for as many as eight players of all ages. The goal is to be the first to complete a series of challenges. During each turn, a challenge will be played by one or two players per team depending on the type of challenge you've been given. (Other players on your team can still help and support you). There are six different "Single" challenges that must be played cooperatively by members of the same team. Family & Friends Party can also suggest "Versus" challenges, which must be played competitively by all teams at the same time.
Virtual Console
Ogre Battle: The March of the Black Queen (Super NES, 1 player, Rated E for Everyone, 800 Wii Points): It's up to you to defeat the Empire. It's been nearly a quarter of a century since the Zetegenian Empire first conquered the Kingdoms of Zenobia with a wrath of fear and bloodshed. You are the leader of a band of rebels who've fought to preserve the last shred of honor in this desperate time of treachery. Manage the ranks of a full-blown rebel army, complete with hundreds of characters, magic items, weapons and mystical Tarot cards. You must succeed in ousting the evil usurpers-your fate, and that of the entire population, depends on it.
For more information about Wii, please visit wii.com.
crowphoenix
Banned
While Ogre Battle is awesome, it's annoying to see a 1 VC, 1 WiiWare week. Ah well, at least we got Ogre Battle.
FFantasyFX
Member
jjasper said:
As far as one week releases go, Ogre Battle is pretty hot, but I think most people who complain would prefer two (if not three) VC games per week. We'd look pretty hypocritical if we complained about solitary releases when Sonic Chaos hits, but not when Ogre Battle hits.
Ogre Battle is great, great, great in my opinion, but if you're not a fan of the genre - you're left out in the cold this week.slaughterking
Member
This. Is it by any chance already rated by a european rating board?Jethro said:
FFantasyFX said:As far as one week releases go, Ogre Battle is pretty hot, but I think most people who complain would prefer two (if not three) VC games per week. We'd look pretty hypocritical if we complained about solitary releases when Sonic Chaos hits, but not when Ogre Battle hits.
Yeah but if they released 3 games of which one was a good game and 2 were shitty filler titles would you really care about the other two? Or maybe I have just gotten to the point where I don't expect much of anything from virtual console so when I get an awesome game I am happy.
crowphoenix
Banned
That's actually pretty much the point a lot of people will use. You know, that two bad games are out of the way. And besides, it'd be better to have them come with a quality game than to be the only game of their week.jjasper said:
FFantasyFX
Member
jjasper said:
That's two shitty filler titles that can't be used the week after and the week after the week after.
And you know what they say - one man's shitty filler is another man's sapphire? But we've been down this road before ad nauseum - Ogre Battle has hit & I'm very glad for the people who were anticipating it.PepsimanVsJoe
Member
They couldn't be bothered to throw in another couple C64 games?
SNES Ogre Battle? Are you fucking kidding me? You guys are complaining? You haven't been able to buy a SNES copy on ebay for under $65 for YEARS now and people are complaining? About the ONLY complaint I could have on this is that I would have liked to maybe see it DSiWare instead... but I'll definitely take it on VC. Better than shelling out $65+ for a SNES cartridge.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Seriously though I'd be more excited if I thought I could get away with swiping my Wii back from my old house.
Everyone over there has grown rather attached to it. =/
Everyone over there has grown rather attached to it. =/
Ogre Battle? OGRE BATTLE? Fuck yeah!
Dragona had me horrified with tales of SE's license abuse. I thought it was never coming.
(Oh, and no VC game will benefit more from the save state when you exit the game. The battles are looooooooooooooong with save spots. You have to exit using the home menu, right?)
EDIT: Nevermind, I guess the conflict is only over the later Ogre games, published by Atlus in the US while SE now holds the series' rights.
Dragona had me horrified with tales of SE's license abuse. I thought it was never coming.
(Oh, and no VC game will benefit more from the save state when you exit the game. The battles are looooooooooooooong with save spots. You have to exit using the home menu, right?)
EDIT: Nevermind, I guess the conflict is only over the later Ogre games, published by Atlus in the US while SE now holds the series' rights.
SabinFigaro
Member
Ah indecision! I have 2 copies of Ogre Battle for SNES and 1 for PSone. It's one of my fave games though, and the consumer whore in me is persuading me to make yet another purchase.
RuneFactoryFanboy
Member
........oh my gosh
For the first time in months I think I'm going to download a VC game. I have never played it but I loved the N64 one, anything I should be aware of that would turn me away?
OB64 was one of my favorite games back in the day. I loved how placing certian units together would cause them to combine attacks.
For the first time in months I think I'm going to download a VC game. I have never played it but I loved the N64 one, anything I should be aware of that would turn me away?
OB64 was one of my favorite games back in the day. I loved how placing certian units together would cause them to combine attacks.
RuneFactoryFanboy said:
The only step down would have been the lack of mid-battle saves, but VC save states.
There's gotta be a GAF Plays for this... eventually. Maybe not now. The game has tons of branches, endings, and sidequests that veterans would be interested in replaying for.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Yaweee said:
After I had mentioned last week that barring some ogrish behaviour on the part of NOA, we might have some nice strategy gaming coming?
Conrad Link
Member
@ Ogre Battle. Wasn't expecting that when I clicked the thread.Still no Smash Brothers.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Ogre Battle >>>>>>>>>>>> Smash Bros.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
jjasper said:Now that we have the first one I am going to be hopelessly waiting for Tactics and 64
Those depend on the licensing problems with Atlus. (Not to mention the problem that the US release of Tactics Ogre was on Playstation, which means romhacking is in order to get the SNES version up). We'll have to see.
Conrad Link
Member
Dragona Akehi said:
Why can't we have both! ;(
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