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[Kleegamefan]

Looks like Toshiba is going to throw down the pricing gauntlet this year....should be intresting to see how BRD group responds to this...also bodes well for a HD-DVD ROM drive in Xenon, IMO...

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-5514081.html

Toshiba next-gen recorder slated for year's end

LAS VEGAS--Toshiba executives said they will release a next-generation DVD recorder by year's end as part of their new product plans.

Toshiba will release an HD DVD, DVD, CD recorder by the fourth quarter of this year for about $1,000, executives said Wednesday at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. HD DVD is an emerging blue laser DVD technology that will enable data to be stored onto discs with capacities of up to 30GB. The discs will also include interactive and gaming features, according to the company.

Industry groups are supporting different formats, Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, to replace DVD as an industry standard. Toshiba, NEC and Sanyo are among those promoting HD DVD and Sony, Hewlett-Packard and Dell are supporting Blu-ray.

"HD DVD has not won yet, but I'm 100 percent confident that HD DVD is better than Blu-ray," said Yoshihide Fujii, chief executive of Toshiba Digital Media Network Company.

Analysts had assumed Blu-ray had the momentum in the manufacturing and entertainment industries because of the support of PC makers Dell and HP, which were influential in the progress of the DVD+RW adoption. Recently, however, the HD DVD format gained crucial industry support from several studios, including Paramount Pictures, Universal Studios, Warner Bros. and New Line Cinema.

The Blu-ray camp also recently got support from Disney, as well as from Sony's entertainment properties

 

[Rhindle]

How does that bode well for inclusion in Xenon??

If anything, if pricing is going to be that high, it makes it a virtual certainty that Xenon will be DVD-only -- unless Toshiba and its partners subsidize Xenon in a big way.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Check it..

Blu-ray burns for interactive content

The next generation in DVD technology will let consumers carry the equivalent of a hard drive on a disc, but what are they supposed to do with all that capacity? Interact, supporters say.

Manufacturers fancy a reciprocal relationship in which a consumer, before watching a Spider-Man movie in high-definition video on DVD, downloads and stores on the rewritable portion of that same disc a video game or trailer for the next Spider-Man sequel. The consumer would also be able to update those games and previews as new versions come out--and give studios the opportunity to make more direct pitches. That's the vision for Blu-ray Discs and broadband-connected recorders that Blu-ray backers described in a recent press tour.

Whether interactive features will have consumers swinging into retail stores to buy the recorders is something that only time will tell, but for the moment, such features are currently more a means to an end--attracting studio support to the Blu-ray Disc format. Hollywood's backing could push Blu-ray to victory in the competition to be the high-definition DVD standard.

Adding interactive features "is a major focus of the application development effort," said Richard Doherty, a spokesman for Blu-ray Disc and a director at Panasonic. "It's something of great interest to all studios...The goal is to have them ready from the get-go in the first (Blu-ray Disc movie) titles."

By appealing to entertainment studios, Blu-ray Disc supporters are trying to get a leg up on a competing format, HD DVD. Allying with partners who could bestow their libraries of commercial entertainment content on the Blue-ray format would also significantly aid backers' efforts to make next-generation recorders a mass market product. Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD are vying to take the home entertainment baton from DVD, which has been one of the fastest-growing categories in consumer electronics history.

 

[TekunoRobby]

So is there any massive consumer interest in these products? I see the companies are going on an all out PR war but outside of my techgeek sources no one has even cared.

The point I'd like to make is why should I care who wins, is there any looming potential results and problems as a result of either side taking over the After-DVD market?

 

[Andy787]

HDDVD sux.

 

[Kleegamefan]

How does that bode well for inclusion in Xenon??

If anything, if pricing is going to be that high, it makes it a virtual certainty that Xenon will be DVD-only -- unless Toshiba and its partners subsidize Xenon in a big way.

Well, there is some history here that you may not be aware of...

Back when Toshiba first announced HD-DVD (it was called AOD then), they stated the *ROM Players* (not the more expensive recorders) would be around 2 grand....moreover, BRD recorders today are 3K plus sofar (Sony, Panny and Sharp decks)....

$1000 for an HD-DVD recorder is much, much lower than what was initially projected for a first gen device and HD-DVD ROM units will most certainly be less than this...

To put into perspective, it has been announced by SCEI that PlayStation 3 will have a BRD-ROM drive *even though* current BRD products for sale are 3K+ minimum....

I would imagine that even if the US PS3 debuts for more than $299, it wont be a radical increase at any rate...at least thats how I see it...

IMO, this is significant, because I don't think Microsoft will take any chances with Sony, or assume anything.....I believe that they will go HD-DVD ROM unless they have no choice....

This has been inferred to me by people who should know, but as we all learned from the Nintendo PlayStation disaster in the early 90's, things can and do change at the last minute...

HDDVD sux.

Yeah, everyone who knows me also knows I am much more bullish on BRD than HD-DVD....

Be that as it may, the moves that NEC/Toshiba have made sofar have *forced* the BRD to match their competitors (first caddies then video codecs then audio codecs and then the file system) so *I* find it good news of lower-than-expected initial HD-DVD pricing, if for no other reason BRD tends to respond to the challange time and time again....

BRD, its now your move...

 

[Joe]

put the movie and its licensed ps3/xbox2 game on the same disc.

 

[TekunoRobby]

put the movie and its licensed ps3/xbox2 game on the same disc.

It's inevitable IMO. Also it would provide to be a great money maker if the public is interested.

1- Movie released in theaters
2- Game gets released close to movie release
3- Movie gets released on DVD
4- Special Edition Set with Movie and Game combo get released on HDVD/Blue-Ray

Sounds like a sound chronological order and plus the companies involved get to release 4 different products around the same franchise to the same consumer. Plus the movie/game combo could be amazingly attractive to consumers around the holidays since it can take care of two gift ideas in tidy and inexpensive package (compared to buying both products at full price, hopefully).

 

[cybamerc]

I wonder if it actually records HD-DVDs. The article doesn't say. I also wonder if they will have finished the rewritable spec by then.

 

[Rhindle]

KLee, I realize ROM drives will be somewhat cheaper. In fact, I posted a couple of weeks ago that I expect ROM drives to retail for $500-$700 initially. But that's still way to expensive to include in a $300 box. Microsoft is not going to take that kind of additional loss -- again, unless Toshiba is willing to massively subsidize the drives.

For the record, I'm also skeptical that Sony will be able to make good on including BRD in the PS3, unless they delay the launch to late 2006 at the earliest.

 

[Kleegamefan]

It's inevitable IMO. Also it would provide to be a great money maker if the public is interested.

1- Movie released in theaters
2- Game gets released close to movie release
3- Movie gets released on DVD
4- Special Edition Set with Movie and Game combo get released on HDVD/Blue-Ray

Sounds like a sound chronological order and plus the companies involved get to release 4 different products around the same franchise to the same consumer. Plus the movie/game combo could be amazingly attractive to consumers around the holidays since it can take care of two gift ideas in tidy and inexpensive package (compared to buying both products at full price, hopefully).

IMO there is about a 99% chance this will be happening with next generation games not released on Nintendo consoles

 

[Kleegamefan]

KLee, I realize ROM drives will be somewhat cheaper. In fact, I posted a couple of weeks ago that I expect ROM drives to retail for $500-$700 initially. But that's still way to expensive to include in a $300 box. Microsoft is not going to take that kind of additional loss -- again, unless Toshiba is willing to massively subsidize the drives.

For the record, I'm also skeptical that Sony will be able to make good on including BRD in the PS3, unless they delay the launch to late 2006 at the earliest.

Yeah...I hear what you are saying.....

From what I have been told, there will be at least 3 different devices that play XENON games and at least one of these will indeed also play HD-DVD movies...

Whether or not the $299 one plays these movies is anyones guess at this point, but I think lower-than-expected pricing on the HD-DVD recorder doesn't hurt, really......this is all I was trying to say....

In my view, Sony more or less runs the entire gaming industry and when they decide to do something big, they more than willing to eat a multi-billion dollar shit sandwitch (so to speak) to make it so...

Since they (Sony) have officially announced Blu-ray in PS3 and since they are one of the licensors of the BRD format and since their last 2 consoles total around 180 million units in sales.......well........I think Sony Corp. have added 2+2 together and theorized they might be able to create the next golden goose with this new format.......at least, that is what *I* am thinking *THEY* are thinking

I think that, with Nintendo now swept aside, the gloves of these 2 giants will TRULY be off for the first time....in other words, PS2 and XBOX were just the appetizer for the BATTLE-FUCKING-ROYALE that will be fought for the next 5 or so years

All this, of course, is just IMO

 

[HokieJoe]

put the movie and its licensed ps3/xbox2 game on the same disc.

"Mr. Nail, Meet Mr. Hammer".

 

[kaching]

Strange. I saw an article just a day or two ago that was saying HDDVD players would be out in Q4 just under $1k, according to Toshiba. This seems to contradict that, since I highly doubt that recorders and players would come out same time and basically same price...

I'll have to see if I can find that article again.

Edit: Found it. It's an engadget entry:

http://hdtv.engadget.com/entry/1234000697026152/

For its 40th anniversary of doing business in the US, Toshiba is pushing hard into HD DVD, with its first HD DVD player to be available in the fourth quarter of 2005, with a MSRP of just under a grand. It will have 720p/1080i support, HDMI, Firewire, Ethernet, Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1 decoders. Sounds cool, but we’re skeptical of Yoshihide Fujii (President & CEO, Digital Media Network Company, pictured at right) stating that consumers don’t need the 50GB that Blu-Ray offers, and that the 30GB of space of HD DVDs offer is more than enough, as we’ve always thought the more room the better. What really excites us is they are promising a terabyte (1000GB) unit with HD DVD recording in a few years, there’s supposed to be a prototype of it on the CES floor.

Not sure what their source is. Lack of 1080p support listed is a little bothersome too.

 

[Ghost]

Is anyone else really unimpressed by the supposed superiority of these new formats for movie purposes? Pay for a disc to download the trailer to it's sequel? Crappy publicity games? They already did the re-writable thing with DVDs, letting you record your own dialog over scenes on PCs with mics and DVDRWs (obviously not huge market penetration).

Dont get me wrong the HD codecs sound nice (not that anyone in europe will have a TV capable of using them in the next 5 years) but it seems like the media technology is moving much faster than the consumer demand and movie house creativity on what to use to fill the space.

Hell, most people dont even watch the extra crap studios put on DVDs, what makes Sony/Toshiba think they can sell players by offering even more of it?



And i dont get why Game/Movie in one package is suddenly a great idea now theres bigger media, surely if studios thought it would sell they would do it now with 2 DVDs...no?

 

[sonycowboy]

Is anyone else really unimpressed by the supposed superiority of these new formats for movie purposes? Pay for a disc to download the trailer to it's sequel? Crappy publicity games? They already did the re-writable thing with DVDs, letting you record your own dialog over scenes on PCs with mics and DVDRWs (obviously not huge market penetration).

Dont get me wrong the HD codecs sound nice (not that anyone in europe will have a TV capable of using them in the next 5 years) but it seems like the media technology is moving much faster than the consumer demand and movie house creativity on what to use to fill the space.

Hell, most people dont even watch the extra crap studios put on DVDs, what makes Sony/Toshiba think they can sell players by offering even more of it?



And i dont get why Game/Movie in one package is suddenly a great idea now theres bigger media, surely if studios thought it would sell they would do it now with 2 DVDs...no?

One of the leading reasons for Blu-Ray to start at 23/25GB for single sided storage is that is how much space it takes to record 2 hours of uncompressed HDTV. That's the minimum space to be considered a viable recording device.

 

[sonycowboy]

What really excites us is they are promising a terabyte (1000GB) unit with HD DVD recording in a few years, there’s supposed to be a prototype of it on the CES floor..

This seems to be really, really strange to me. They're going to go from 15/30GB to 1000GB in a few years? With the same AOD format? It's the first I've heard of this and given the technical docs I've seen, this can't really be done with the current disc manufacturing AOD is using and the way they're sticking with the DVD layer thickness.

 

[Midas]

Hmm... Didn't Philips say that they will have BRD recorder out before the end of Q2 and Pioneer said around Q3?

 

[kaching]

I think they mean a terabyte hard-drive built in. At least, that's the way I read it, but it's admittedly not clear.