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[makaveli60]

Jonathan Blow is literally the exact opposite of what you’re assuming. Anti-woke edgelord that thinks he’s smarter than everyone else.

I don’t know any of these people’s politics, it was just a general assumption based on experience.They looked shitty people regardless of their political views.

 

[ungalo]

Japanese studios struggled to make games that would compete technically, and in some way it's still the case today but to a lesser extent.

They never struggled creatively or in the design of their games, it's just that on home console the most popular trends became western genres (and some japanese studios had to adjust and follow those trends, i think they didn't fail all the time even when it was challenging), on handheld they were kings and it was kind of the golden era for handheld.

It's just a popularity contest they lost. In my opinion the games were not weaker than they are today, it's just that they adapted to fit modern trends and western audience since, while seemingly keeping a strong identity on some levels. In fact i kind of prefer japanese games on 360 than today but i know i'm not in the majority.

 

[Judge Magister]

PS360 was a downfall for Japan but they still release some great games, while Western Peaked in this gen, imo this was the peak of western Industrie, i bought like 5 or 6 EA games this gen, it was the only gen i bought more than 1 EA game.

haha exactly even EA was hot with games like Mirror's Edge, Bad Company, Alice Returns, Dead Space, Dante's Inferno or Burnout Paradise....

 

[E-Cat]

nm

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Western devs weren’t the ones that enticed me into spending thousands on the hobby. It was Japan that got me deeply involved to a point where I wanted to know who made the game (Final Fantasy VI)

Also, Phil Phish has resting cringebitch-face and has an awful personality.

 

[The Pleasure]

Japanese games have always been better in general. Leave Phil Fish in obscurity where he belongs.

But he made Fez!

 

[lughnasadh123]

My dick’s been fully in the glory hole for 5 years now.

Everytime I try to pull out Microsoft, EA or Ubisoft come along and start sucking it again.

So much head bangin' it's metal.

 

[Pelao]

Phil Fish, what a tosspot.

 

[Agent X]

That era of indie developers was the worst. Bunch of smug, pompous douchebags.

I think that applies to certain people in the industry, who engaged in this sort of pompous self-promotion. This was at the time that social media was starting to take off, so they used it as a platform to get notoriety, as if they were pro wrestlers cutting promos to "get over" with their fans.

At the same time, there were plenty of other indie developers that had a much more grounded, down-to-earth attitude. Even on this forum, there were people like M Mario and G GoldenHelmet (R.I.P.) who were happy to interact with their fans, and collect feedback on their games. They didn't take success for granted. They understood that the gamers were the ones keeping them in business.

 

[Spooky Scary Skeleton]

Jonathan Blow regularly talks shit about the current state of AAA games that are bunch of shovelware, unfinished games and he also blames the consumer who are keep buying these games.

He also threatened to boycott game conferences that focuses on cancel culture and got a lot of flak for it from the woke audience, and due to that, he's on the shit list on era echo chamber.

 

[Badlucktroll]

Sure it was not their peak yet a "struggling Japan" looks like this...

those games were my shit

 

[GametimeUK]

Japanese games were pretty shit around that time from what I remember. Don't get me wrong we had some Japanese bangers, but it definetly felt like a low point for me compared to every other generation.

 

[MikeM]

Who the fuck are these virgins?

 

[IntentionalPun]

Blow and Fish always sucked. They don’t represent anyone but themselves lol. Don’t think either of them ever worked with a dev team who couldn’t fit in my living room.

 

[Sgt.Asher]

I wonder how phish lives now. Residuals? Like an 80s one hit wonder.
I still don't understand why the industry decided that he and blow should be the face of indie games. Absolute bellends.

 

[Radical_3d]

On the HD generation Japanese devs did struggle a lot to get out of the mindset of the PS2 era. Famously Capcom acquired a few western studios that did shit for their catalog. Fish is an idiot, tho.

 

[awwr999999]

Now Japanese games don't suck. They're just sexist and racist and very, very wrong.

American ethnocentrism is no better than the racism and sexism it's so quick to judge. According to the UN, in objective terms (Gender Inequality Index) Japan's less sexist than the USA.
In terms of racism Japan outlawed slavery before the first African slaves were brought America. Americans, like Germans, have lost our ability to joke about the full spectrum of things that could otherwise be joked about - we can still joke about Canadians because we've never enslaved them. Likewise, Americans and Germans really have no room to cast judgement on other cultures for racism unless it's involving slavery, mass murder or ongoing systematic oppression.

 

[MiguelItUp]

It's Phil Fish therefore its moot, lol.

 

[Durin]

I still remember the PS3 era, when you had this growing arrogance from some western devs that their products were just superior, bolstered heavily to western devs getting access to budgets to push graphical fidelity, and greater adoption of middleware (smart choice though).

Japan struggled to adapt to HD, certain genres failed to hit bigger audiences to justify budgets, and they didn't go into the desaturated gritty visuals as much that was so popular back then.

It's funny to see the reversal where big Japanese games are more efficient with their budgets, photo-realism fidelity has hit dimished returns, and Japan is just producing more stuff I like.

Western AAA games now so often feel like design dinosaurs, doing nothing to stand out, buggy on release, and the devs act like entitled children on social media.

 

[awwr999999]

On the HD generation Japanese devs did struggle a lot to get out of the mindset of the PS2 era. Famously Capcom acquired a few western studios that did shit for their catalog. Fish is an idiot, tho.

In hindsight getting out of the PS2 mindset was the worst thing that ever happened to gaming.
Outside of DualSense and faster load times(sometimes), no one's ever going to look back at the HD era and think of it as an 'improvement' in gaming.
Video editing improved in the HD era while gaming (and animation) overshot its peak and went into an aesthetic death spiral that's still coasting on the fumes of a PS2 golden age.

 

[Radical_3d]

In hindsight getting out of the PS2 mindset was the worst thing that ever happened to gaming.
Outside of DualSense and faster load times(sometimes), no one's ever going to look back at the HD era and think of it as an 'improvement' in gaming.
Video editing improved in the HD era while gaming (and animation) overshot its peak and went into an aesthetic death spiral that's still coasting on the fumes of a PS2 golden age.

But the gameplay peaked during PS360. The generations after that has been such a snooze fest that an average 7/10 PS360 game like Space Marine II looks like GOTY in today’s standards.

 

[kiphalfton]

Racist liberals are Racists

Liberals as a whole are insufferable twats.

 

[Dafegamer]

I knew it was a Phil Fish Thread, also Phil Fish =/= Western Devs overall.
Nowadays Japanese Devs dominate in Critical Acclaim lately, Capcom and From Software being big hitters

 

[Agent X]

In hindsight getting out of the PS2 mindset was the worst thing that ever happened to gaming.
Outside of DualSense and faster load times(sometimes), no one's ever going to look back at the HD era and think of it as an 'improvement' in gaming.

I feel gaming has advanced in many ways, but has also regressed in others.

Modern hardware has given both creators and players more abilities than they had 20 years ago. Obviously, beefier hardware allows for games with grander, more detailed worlds, with more "realism" than ever. Digital distribution and inexpensive development tools have made game development and publishing more accessible to individuals and smaller teams. Players have greater access to a broad variety of games encompassing large and small scales, and more avenues to access and play those games on computers, consoles, and mobile devices.

Game design itself is (in my opinion) in a bit of a rut, at least as far as the large-scale productions are concerned. A lot of discussion here and other forums focuses on the flops and failures. However, if you're willing to look, there are still some true gems being produced. It's good to celebrate the success stories.

I love the games of the PS2 era. I've said several times recently that I love looking forward to seeing the PS1, PS2, and PSP games that get revived on PS4/PS5. I want to see those and other classic games preserved and brought to modern platforms, so longtime gamers can get another dose of nostalgia, while new players can be introduced to these games for the first time. At the same time, I love modern games that are fresh, fun, and easily accessible...games that don't feel like "work", but actually feel like "play". Believe me, these games are still out there, if you take time to look for them.

The mindset never actually went away...it's just been been diffused and redistributed through different avenues. Your next game of choice might not be on a disc or cartridge on the store shelf, but perhaps it's a click or two away on a digital game store. It might not be from some massive publisher or some loudmouth prima donna with a huge social media following, but rather from some passionate new upstart that made the game of their dreams and would love for you to try it. Those are the types of developers and games that we should promote and celebrate.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

This type of Western arrogance sadly still seems to permeate the gaming industry even today(talentless hacks, hate on Elden Ring’s success, Stellar Blade, journalism, etc). Imho, even with “outdated” technology, Japanese developers has always made better, more polished higher quality games than Western developers even when they were at their weakest.

 

[Lethal01]

Even in PS3 era Japanese games stomped western ones.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

I mean back then Japanese games were not hitting. The West dominated but most of those games have aged like milk.

Once the Japanese video game renaissance happened from 2016 onward it was over for the West.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Man, I hope I never have to live through another one of those moments. That was awful and truly embarrassing. It made me wish I’d never bought Fez.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Not really surprised. Western people (esp Americans when they go overload cheering in sports) love to rub it in when they are winning.

 

[DarkstarRising13]

I mean back then Japanese games were not hitting. The West dominated but most of those games have aged like milk.

Once the Japanese video game renaissance happened from 2016 onward it was over for the West.

Yup. With the addition of Korean and later Chinese games, the West is dead last when it comes to excellent games (except for a handful).

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yup. With the addition of Korean and later Chinese games, the West is dead last when it comes to excellent games (except for a handful).

If Chinese studios can pump out good games that have western appeal (they arent anime-ish which many people dont like), focusing on gritty souls-like action games, BF clone Delta Force Hawk Ops, etc.... It'll be great for gamers. And Chinese businesses too.

Seems like if they can make some smash hit games that are budget friendly (Google check says Wukong cost $70-80M to make over 6 years), gamers win, their studios win, and it'll make western studios pull up their socks and smarten up.

Just a matter if western studios do a 180 facing a 2024 reckoning of viewers/gamers voting with their wallet on tv/movies/gaming. Or they stay stubborn and go down with the ship over and over again.

The data is there. They can follow it and adjust. Or stubbornly just keep doiog what they are doing and pray customers like it.

 

[kapshin]

Image being insulted by people with the names Fish and Blow... do you even need to respond? lol

 

[Kumomeme]

 

[Generic]

My oh my how things have changed.

Not really, the most successful games nowadays are western.

 

[EDMIX]

"Western Devs" and it's just Phil Fish and Jonathan Blow being idiots like usual. Thread title made me expect some weird clip of hundreds of devs doing it.

Trust.

That was the title of the thread's goal. To make it look as if it was all western devs or something lol

 

[Little Chicken]

Rude, but to be fair there was a lot of disappointing garbage coming out of Japan in those days.

 

[Stu_Hart]

You are just trying to stir and troll. Many western devs hate these guys too.

 

[Radical_3d]

By the way, am I the only one that feels attacked by that “old” on the title of the thread?

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

Not really, the most successful games nowadays are western.

Successful based on their sales or based on their overall review scores?

 

[Madflavor]

To be fair, Western game devs dominated back when Phil Fish ran his mouth. I would say Japan dominated the scene in the late 80s - mid 2000s, and then the West surpassed them right when the 360/PS3 era began. However we’re seeing the pendulum swinging back in the other direction right now. Not to mention Korea and China are making their footprint.

This should go without saying, but obviously good western games came out when Japan dominated, and vise versa.

 

[darrylgorn]

Couldn't really care for most Japanese games myself. I've been gaming since the 80s and never really had any intention to own a Playstation, for example.

Games have becomes so ubiquitous that there's no critical schism between Japan and anywhere else.

Really, the only difference, as far as I'm concerned, is design philosophy. Where Japanese games tend to be very tightly designed and restrictive, western games usually go for autonomy at the expense of coherent mechanics.

That's why it's usually easier to gauge the 'quality' of Japanese games. They've established certain genres with well defined mechanics and refined them over time.

 

[saintjules]

Sounds like the attitude of a Concord dev.

Also:

 

[Drew1440]

They weren't wrong, Japanese games did feel like PS2 games running in HD in the seventh/eighth generation. Thankfully that's changed a lot now, and have adapted their game design for the western audience.

 

[IAmRei]

Why make a thread about a man speaking completely accurate statements? Japan's orbital fall from producing stuff like FF7 in 1997, MGS 1998, Soul Calibur/DOA2 in 1999, Phantasy Star Online in 2000, MGS2 2001, FF11 in 2002, and Ninja Gaiden in 2004....to the absolute dogshit they put out in the "HD Era" is the stuff of legends and a should be studied by scholars for millennia. I don't think any industry in the history of the world has seen such a precipitous overnight cratering as the Japanese game's industry did from 2005 onward.

Oh hey, if its snot everything, this year concord which from west sucked jupiter class fails... Oh wait, not only concord... Legend also started this year as well

 

[Drell]

To be fair, what were these western games that absolutely trashed japanese productions? It's a genuine question I ask because back in the day, I was more invested in retrogaming and some indies than triple A. And I did that because for me it wasn't just the japanese games that fell bad, but the whole HD era, Nintendo with all its wii shovelwares included.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

Racist liberals are Racists

with bad taste in vidyagames

 

[NeverYouMind]

Demon's Souls was a major downgrade to PS2 games?

In terms of theme Lord of the Rings: Return of the King (also Two Towers), Devil May Cry 3, and Onimusha 3 beat it on the PS2. Kingdom Hearts II, Dark Cloud 2, and God of War on the PS2 beat it mechanically as well. Fable: The Lost Chapters, Jade Empire, and Ninja Gaiden on Xbox take a shit on it from Mount Olympus. Even The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess on the GameCube makes it seem incompetent by comparison.

 

[SirTerry-T]

"old" clip?
Fuck me, I'm more ancient than I realised...

 

[Dr. Suchong]

Japanese games have always been better in general. Leave Phil Fish in obscurity where he belongs.

Came here to say this.
Fez is absurdly clever though.

 

[bender]

In terms of theme Lord of the Rings: Return of the King (also Two Towers), Devil May Cry 3, and Onimusha 3 beat it on the PS2. Kingdom Hearts II, Dark Cloud 2, and God of War on the PS2 beat it mechanically as well. Fable: The Lost Chapters, Jade Empire, and Ninja Gaiden on Xbox take a shit on it from Mount Olympus. Even The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess on the GameCube makes it seem incompetent by comparison.

Fable?